"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[BlueBasilisk]

- Freeza is an idiot. He gains nothing from having some of his teammate getting eliminated. It just further decreases his chances of being brought back to life if there are less people to back him up.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make when people were predicting Frieza would backstab Goku in the anime. It in no way benefits him to betray his team just for revenge because they're offering him something he wants in exchange for his cooperation. He's just fucking himself over for no good reason, especially when he says he doesn't give a shit about winning.

[TheMikado]

Read Chapter 34 and I have some random notes:

- Gohan's battle with the Trio De Danger suffers from the same issue that anime had at times with fake tension. Gohan, if you know that your base form isn't to beat these guys, transform into a SSJ!

Can Gohan go SSJ in the manga? I don't remember if his ultimate form is treated as a transformation in the manga or not.

[TheMikado]

- Freeza is an idiot. He gains nothing from having some of his teammate getting eliminated. It just further decreases his chances of being brought back to life if there are less people to back him up.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make when people were predicting Frieza would backstab Goku in the anime. It in no way benefits him to betray his team just for revenge because they're offering him something he wants in exchange for his cooperation. He's just fucking himself over for no good reason, especially when he says he doesn't give a shit about winning.

I don't really see the problem, it looked like it was a way to get Frost to trust him and Frieza assumed those three weren't going to be worth much in the tournament anyway.
I liked how worthless tien and krillin were against Cell and Buu as a means of showing how much trouble the rest of them are in so it feels pretty natural. Its the exact continuation of what's basically happened in every single saga since the saiyans.

[OLKv3]

Read Chapter 34 and I have some random notes:

- Gohan's battle with the Trio De Danger suffers from the same issue that anime had at times with fake tension. Gohan, if you know that your base form isn't to beat these guys, transform into a SSJ!

Can Gohan go SSJ in the manga? I don't remember if his ultimate form is treated as a transformation in the manga or not.

Gohan never goes SS in the anime after he gains Ultimate form. The manga is following suit

[Simere]

- Freeza is an idiot. He gains nothing from having some of his teammate getting eliminated. It just further decreases his chances of being brought back to life if there are less people to back him up.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make when people were predicting Frieza would backstab Goku in the anime. It in no way benefits him to betray his team just for revenge because they're offering him something he wants in exchange for his cooperation. He's just fucking himself over for no good reason, especially when he says he doesn't give a shit about winning.

By offering them up to Frost it established trust, and he leveraged that trust into getting Frost to 1) eliminate several competitors in short order, paving the way for U9's quick erasure and 2) expend enough energy so that Frost himself could be eliminated with minimal hassle. It came at the cost of two fighters who, in Freeza's cost/benefit analysis, wouldn't be able to contribute better results than this.

[LightBing]

Pretty sure Gohan's is in "Ultimate" here, after all he was handling 3 at least SSJ tier character on his own who excelled at teamwork. Meaning he's probably at SSJ2 level at the very least here.
Him holding back might be a call back to FnF(although I think this point is anime only) where he couldn't access his Mystic without some baggage.

I have much more to say about this chapter, I have some qualms with it but it's still excellent. Seriously very good chapter.

[Lord Beerus]

Read Chapter 34 and I have some random notes:

- Gohan's battle with the Trio De Danger suffers from the same issue that anime had at times with fake tension. Gohan, if you know that your base form isn't to beat these guys, transform into a SSJ!

Can Gohan go SSJ in the manga? I don't remember if his ultimate form is treated as a transformation in the manga or not.

Gohan never goes SS in the anime after he gains Ultimate form. The manga is following suit

That doesn't mean he can't go Super Saiyan even after gains his Ultimate Form back in the anime. Hell, he the anime treats his Ultimate Form as if it's own separate transformation with its own multiplier in strength.

[TajinRice]

If that was the case they would have just put Goten and Trunks. maybe its time fans express their interest in these characters and send a strong message. Tweet out to Toyotaro

Little dude, do you want to get banned? If so then keep on posting more of these.

Stop being a fucking narc. He's not advocating harassment or threats. Giving feedback is not blasphemy.

I can finally address this. How many times have we heard. If you want change write to your local congress man? Everything in life is about the people speaking up. I did not say go bash Toyotaro. But clearly Toei and Toyotaro do not know what the fans want. They need to engage with them more. The fans dont want to see Goku over and over again. There is a huge want for characters like Tenshinhan, Krillin and Yamcha to get bigger roles. Everyone seemingly hate the tournament of power. I personally think its the biggest failure. I rather watch Garlic Jr. saga over again. Other world tournament was better than this. Toei goes by ratings. While most DB fans watch and dont look away because they still have interest but doesnt mean they like it. Hell they tune in with a false hope with maybe this episode will be good and get things back on track. People were looking forward to the manga because they thought it would do a better job with the characters we love. Better power scaling and less repeated battles. So no I'm not say harass anyone. But in a medium where you are a content creator for people. The people have the right to express displeasure. Thats something the moderators on this board do not seem to understand. So lets continue bad dragonball because apparently the fans can not speak up.

[prince212]

Freeza plan was worthed , a whole universe 9 and a decent fighter(frost) are out in exchange to just 2 pawns ( Krillin and Tien ). I’m glad toyotaro didn’t take the fan service route and make u7 to be the main cause of eliminations.
So freeza is not an idiot in my opinion , because seriously , those u7 goners weren’t able to take out all the people that frost took , plus frost himself is out easily , saving energies for the big u7 guys , especially Gohan and piccolo .
So .. very well played.
As a fan I consider that we have to let the artist work , not try to impose how to work or try to convince other readers that the artist sucks because my favorite character doesn’t get shine . Obviously opinions are welcome , but some seem to be attacks to the artist , who has the right to move the chess pieces as he wish , with a logic of movements, and he’s following the rules and made a decent opening

[OLKv3]

Can Gohan go SSJ in the manga? I don't remember if his ultimate form is treated as a transformation in the manga or not.

Gohan never goes SS in the anime after he gains Ultimate form. The manga is following suit

That doesn't mean he can't go Super Saiyan even after gains his Ultimate Form back in the anime. Hell, he the anime treats his Ultimate Form as if it's own separate transformation with its own multiplier in strength.

Dude, name one time he went SS in the anime after gaining his Ultimate Form back. It's never happened
You using this as a critique for the manga exclusively is just weird, since the anime did the same thing. Gohan only had 2 forms in the anime ToP. Base and Ultimate.

[Exline]

- Krillin being eliminated from sneak attack after doing nothing.
- Damn you Toyotaro for teasing Dr Rota's abilities and not doing anything with them. And him being eliminated off-panel does nothing for me given we have no idea who did it.
- Tenshinhan getting jobbed out as hard as he did against Frost upset me so much. Only one Kikoho against Frost, which he no sells, and then he's eliminated with one punch.
- Gohan's battle with the Trio De Danger suffers from the same issue that anime had at times with fake tension. Gohan, if you know that your base form isn't enough to beat these guys, transform into a SSJ!

-I agree with how Krillin's elimination was so lackluster. When i first saw that, I was hoping him to improvise to get back onto the stage. However I am alright with it because like someone in this thread stated, it make its feel as if the other fighters excluding Vegeta and Goku are not as safe and powerful as we thought they were. I am also content with Tenshinhan's elimination, he tried his best, but in the end, he was defeated by a character levels above him. I only wish Krillin got to atleast try something, like a Kienzan, anything really to prove his worth. I enjoy how unexpected these eliminations were.

And yeah, Toyotaro's needs to improve his methods of conveying tension. It didn't feel like Gohan truly had his back against the wall. And also Piccolo informed him to preserve his stamina, even going SSJ would affect it.

- Freeza is an idiot. He gains nothing from having some of his teammates getting eliminated. It just further decreases his chances of being brought back to life if there are less people to back him up. Freeza could have fought Krillin and Tien or Freeza could have had Frost fight other characters, and it would have served the same purpose of the Freeza/Frost team up. Hell, that's what happened with Frost anhamilting Universe 9 single-handedly. So there was no point to Krillin and Tenshinhan getting eliminated like they did.
- Frost was the best thing about the chapter, with how he battered 90% Universe 9, but his elimination, as well as the payoff from him and Freeza teaming up, was so abrupt that I had no reaction to it. I also have the horrible feeling that Frost's performance is the best any universe that isn't Universe 7 is going to get in the manga.

No it isn't. He lessening the amount of fighters left to ensure his victory. He needed to gain Frost's trust in order to have him take care of numerous fighters. I feel their partnership should have been developed more. It feels as if it ended way too quick.

And I'm not doubting Toyotaro's inability to make others as great as Frost. I have high hopes for characters like Cabba, Hit, and Dyspo who needed more development then they got in the anime version.

- Nice to see Rozel fighting and being more useful in combat rather than pissing his pants in fear against Freeza and eliminating himself by accident.
- Piccolo and Gohan should have been the ones to take care of Universe 9, especially considering Gohan and Piccolo initially began the fight with Universe 9. And even more especially considering Frost steamrolling Universe 9 had such an unsatisfactory payoff. They kinda got shafted.
- Lavender and Basil getting eliminated they way they did by Freeza was pretty smart.
- Why is Piccolo hesitating to eliminate Bergamo? For a pragmatic and no-nonsense character like him, that was such a weird thing for him to do given how someone could have come up from behind Piccolo and eliminated him for that hesitation.

I disagree with this. Having Frieza killsteal was interesting because he made statements that make the story of the ToP much more interesting, claiming that they cannot risk worrying about other universes since the tournament is meant to be all about survival.

I also don't see anything wrong with Piccolo hesitating. He is no-nonsense, but who says he cannot be reasonable? He's got some of Kami's personality as well. How would you feel risking the lives of others for the benefit of your own and your people as well?

I have a feeling that when Gohan possibly faces U10, he will rethink about Frieza's words and finish U10 off for the sake of his own family.

- Overall, I very much preferred Goku and Vegeta taking care of Universe 9 in the anime, then how Universe 9 were handled in the manga because in the anime it at least contiunted and concluded the subplot of the grudge Universe 9 had against Universe 7.
- I don't give a shit how much more like a battle royal it feel like in the manga. It matters so much more with how you utilize that concept to make the most of the cast and for you to give ultimately care about the fate about of those who get eliminated. I didn't care for Universe 9 in the manga anywhere the same amount I cared for them in the anime, as a result, I don't give a shit that their erased. And if I don't care that literal universes are being erased, there's going to be a big emotional disconnect that was significantly hampers how much I'm invested in the story.

Yes, I believe it was executed well in the anime because we had some emotional attachment with these characters, as well as their grudge against U&. Vegeta being there did not feel necessary, rather it should have been Gohan instead imo since he did fight against Lavender.

And you're right about the manga not providing us enough development for these other universes. Toyotaro's failure to do so is going to make their erasures have little to no impact on how we feel about them in contrast to the anime. I;m even angrier about how he eliminates other characters off-screen, something I was hoping he would not do.

I will however commend for his ability to make this feel like a true battle royale with the camera changing to various fights going on before us. From Piccolo vs Rozel to Gohan vs Trio De Dangers to Tien and Roshi vs Frost. It was executed very well here. Glad to know we won't be getting constant 1v1's like we usually did in the anime.

Overall, I enjoyed the chapter. It demonstrates Toyotaro is capable of doing a Battle Royale and I hope he can bring us more interesting fights, concepts and differences. If he only he atleast put some thought into giving other characters a chance of spotlight besides U7 and U6 and U11.

[Draconic]

This chapter's fight shits on every single fight Toyotaro did prior to Merged Zamasu vs Goku. He's bringing his A-game from early on and that gets me hooked. Other than that:

I love Freeza and Frost taking out Universe 9. Frost is pretty boss himself too. He deserves the time he got in the anime and manga, especially with how it was used to differentiate him even more from Freeza.

Gohan vs the Trio de Dangers is cool too, but I don't really like that other than Roselle's obvious flying abillity, none of the Universe 9 guys showed anything uniqe or special.

The humans going out early is fine, if only a little sad how they didn't get to do anything worthwhile. Tenshinhan is dead weight, so I don't exactly mind him going out this way, but Krillin was really unfortunate.

Except Freeza/Frost being cool, there's nothing really worthwhile here storywise, but the terrific fighting more than makes up for it.

[TobyS]

It was marginally less bad than the leaks made it seem but still terrible.

Tenshinhan looked worse doing a useless kikoho than if he didn't get to do one at all.

The same plot twist could have worked if Goku intervened in time to save Ten too. They didn't need gl screw them both for Freezas plan to work.

Plus the gap between Freeza and Frost is so large in Freezas favor that he shouldn't have needed to do any of that (SS1 Goku fucking wrecked him, even w.o the two base theory that means F is stronger)

I don't buy the humans are weak/acceptable casualties thing because weak people are useful just for winning by numbers at the end (as we are literally seeing in the last ep of the anime rn.)

It made a sort of sense but only because it was written that way, it could have been written differently just have this entire thing play out a few chapters from now after Ten and Kuririn have made a contribution.

They showed Piccolo and Gohan try to help but what about 17.18 and Vegeta, even if those guys are dicks they should see the benefit of preserving their own numbers. Not one of them had finished a fight moments prior or was fighting someone so much weaker they could just speed away. Goku can teleport ffs.

It felt horribly mean spirited and unnecessary and sadly it's gonna taint the rest of the manga for me which I've enjoyed more until now, and would have enjoyed more since...

But I'm gonna try and ignore it and move on. Hopefully XV3 is our last chance for justice...

[Cetra]

"Cool" to see that Toyble made such a joke about Yamcha but then did something with Kuririn and Tenshinhan that Yamcha could also have done.

Dude, name one time he went SS in the anime after gaining his Ultimate Form back. It's never happened
You using this as a critique for the manga exclusively is just weird, since the anime did the same thing. Gohan only had 2 forms in the anime ToP. Base and Ultimate.

The manga is following nothing. Goku literally asks Elder Kaioushin if they should fuse while being Super Saiyajin. You can come up with the same explanation of everyone who wants to defend Ultimate now and say "that doesn't mean he meant Gohan as well" but it is very obvious that "he can't go SSJ" is just a fan rule.

[Lord Beerus]

Gohan never goes SS in the anime after he gains Ultimate form. The manga is following suit

That doesn't mean he can't go Super Saiyan even after gains his Ultimate Form back in the anime. Hell, he the anime treats his Ultimate Form as if it's own separate transformation with its own multiplier in strength.

Dude, name one time he went SS in the anime after gaining his Ultimate Form back. It's never happened
You using this as a critique for the manga exclusively is just weird, since the anime did the same thing. Gohan only had 2 forms in the anime ToP. Base and Ultimate.

Since when has it ever implied that Gohan can't become a SSJ despite having his Ultimate form? Hell, he transformed into a SSJ, despite using his Ultimate Form to fight Beerus, during the Super Saiyan God ritual in the Battle Of Gods movie and the Super anime/manga retelling. So he can still power up into that form, but he just doesn't.

[majinwarman]

I felt that Toyotaro could have done more with Tienshinhan and Krillin. He basically got rid of them as fast as the anime did. I feel like Tienshinhan needs more shine in modern Dragon Ball, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[CriticalThinker]

It was a decent chapter but I can't help but still feel a bit disappointed though. Maybe they'll change it up but it seems like so far the universe elimination order is going to be the same which I'm not sure I like. Mainly because I wasn't the biggest fan of U3 and U4 lasting as long as they did since they dropped the ball with U4 and U3 was just alright. Also while I like the fact that fighters that aren't focused on are knocked out of the ring which is something the anime struggled to do, I kinda wish we could have seen which characters knocked them out but it is what it is. Also not a big fan of the trio in this version since their really not all that unique or as interesting. Also Krillin and Tien doing even less in this version was still disappointing.

Though onto things I liked, Gohan's fight against the Trio was good and it was nice to see Frost go ham on U9. Regardless of all my negative points I still thought it was a decent chapter. Honestly I'll be fine with all these characters being eliminated so quickly if it means we can see more fighting from characters like Toppo, Dyspo, Hit, etc. Also on a side note since Frost got so many eliminations I hope my man Toppo gets some this time around.

[Omniboy]

That doesn't mean he can't go Super Saiyan even after gains his Ultimate Form back in the anime. Hell, he the anime treats his Ultimate Form as if it's own separate transformation with its own multiplier in strength.

Dude, name one time he went SS in the anime after gaining his Ultimate Form back. It's never happened
You using this as a critique for the manga exclusively is just weird, since the anime did the same thing. Gohan only had 2 forms in the anime ToP. Base and Ultimate.

Since when has it ever implied that Gohan can't become a SSJ despite having his Ultimate form? Hell, he transformed into a SSJ, despite using his Ultimate Form to fight Beerus, during the Super Saiyan God ritual in the Battle Of Gods movie and the Super anime/manga retelling. So he can still power up into that form, but he just doesn't.

EDIT: Shit I misread your comment. I apologize.

[sintzu]

Pretty sure Gohan's is in "Ultimate" here.

Gohan said he was going to use his "power" but Piccolo told him to save it for later.

[Lord Beerus]

Dude, name one time he went SS in the anime after gaining his Ultimate Form back. It's never happened
You using this as a critique for the manga exclusively is just weird, since the anime did the same thing. Gohan only had 2 forms in the anime ToP. Base and Ultimate.

Since when has it ever implied that Gohan can't become a SSJ despite having his Ultimate form? Hell, he transformed into a SSJ, despite using his Ultimate Form to fight Beerus, during the Super Saiyan God ritual in the Battle Of Gods movie and the Super anime/manga retelling. So he can still power up into that form, but he just doesn't.

Actually he doesn't go super saiyan in the manga.When we first see him he was being tossed around by Beerus in his Ultimate form

Gohan is a Super Saiyan in the ritual in the manga:
[spoiler][/spoiler]