"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JulianStyles]

Do I know you? And no we dont because if the manga stays with Toriyamas power scale then hes stronger than Roshi and Krillin. Toyotaro has stated he likes to balance things out. So if Krillina eliminated first do you really think Tien will contribute less? This is not Toei who has run DB into the ground twice. This is a guy who respects the product and has the creator proof reading and correcting his drafts.

You don't know me but your posts stand out,when you say the same things here and in other forums,your Tien obsessions stands out the most,its completely unhealthy.
You don't care about a proper discussion,you just want to bash on Krillin just because its so important for you for Tien to better than him.
What Toriyama powerscale are you talking about?Even if we only include DBZ,Toriyama has stated that Krillin is stronger than Tien.

Also you are making a lot of assumptions for a lot of things you don't know about.
We have interviews from the interview of the directors that Toriyama is checking on the anime drafts as well,not to mention Toriyama corrects the drawing and the gags for the most part.

He never stated that. He said Krillin strongest Earthling. The direct translation is "terrestrial human". Now do you want to have a discussion or you want to believe in a blind statement? Because I have links to mutiple sources stating Tien is not an Earthling. His voice actor says hes not. Toriyama says hes not human. Daizenshuu states hes a decendant of aliens. That statement has been repeated in many games and orange box dvd bios. 17 and 18 are Earthlings. Recent retcons say they are human who were programed to be evil. Thats straight from the manga. The anime says humans modified onthe cellular level. Now do you want these links or you want to keep spreading false information? Because bow do you stick by that statement when all thr visual evidence say other wise? Even if you want to go by the Anime TOP. Roshi is more powerful. So you going to take a vague statement?

[batistabus]

Why are people so obsessed with "respecting" Kuririn? I love the guy, but when's the last time he made a difference in combat? When he kicked Dodoria in the face on Namek and ran away with Dende? Kuririn is not a coward, and I hate when the anime/movies used to portray him as a joke character. He's the butt of a joke here, but it's about Goku being an inconsiderate jerk. What makes Kuririn so cool is that, despite the fact that he is scared, he stands up when he's needed. Against Ma Junior, against Nappa, against Dodoria, against Freeza's army in RoF, and here in the ToP. He shouldn't be called a coward (which he isn't being called here), but there's no reason to make him out to be stronger than he actually is.

Also, I love the throwback to Kuririn's classic look here. Works really well for comedic expressions.

As for Vegeta no longer having scars...I'm sure Capsule Corp. has pretty decent healing facilities? Maybe they went away when his body was restored from the afterlife?

Tangential strength discussion, spoiler'd for anyone interested.
[spoiler]Toriyama may say Kuririn is the strongest human, but we know from reading the manga that Tenshinhan is much stronger. Right from his first introduction, Tenshinhan is set up as a rival that even Goku can't defeat. In the Cell arc, he is much more involved with the initial conflict with the Artificial Humans, while Kuririn is designated the task of carrying Yamcha away. Tenshinhan holds back Cell. Tenshinhan deflects a blast from Boo. Tenshinhan joins Piccolo and No. 18 in attacking Beerus. Tenshinhan constantly trains, while Kuririn has moved on to family life. When Toriyama says Kuririn is the strongest human, he must either not consider Tenshinhan a human, isn't thinking about Tenshinhan, or is just trying to portray Kuririn in a better light. This isn't even about Kuririn being the first eliminated from U7 at the ToP, which isn't significant imo. It's just based on everything that the manga has told us for more than half of it's run at this point. There's no debate to be had. The strength of U7's fighters from weakest to strongest (based on the manga) is Kame-sen'nin, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, No. 18, Piccolo, No.17, Gohan, Freeza, Vegeta/Goku.[/spoiler]

[Whatever]

He never stated that. He said Krillin strongest Earthling. The direct translation is "terrestrial human". Now do you want to have a discussion or you want to believe in a blind statement? Because I have links to mutiple sources stating Tien is not an Earthling. His voice actor says hes not. Toriyama says hes not human. Daizenshuu states hes a decendant of aliens. That statement has been repeated in many games and orange box dvd bios. 17 and 18 are Earthlings. Recent retcons say they are human who were programed to be evil. Thats straight from the manga. The anime says humans modified onthe cellular level. Now do you want these links or you want to keep spreading false information? Because bow do you stick by that statement when all thr visual evidence say other wise? Even if you want to go by the Anime TOP. Roshi is more powerful. So you going to take a vague statement?

Its not a blind statement,Toriyama's statement is as clear as it can be.Also the guidebooks says Tien is descended from a clan that is descendent from Aliens.
So whatever minimal Alien dna Tien has,does not matter since the connection is so far away to the point it does not matter.
17 and 18 are classified as cyborgs,not humans.
Also Tien is listed as a human in the same guidebook that mentions what you said.I have proof right here, [spoiler][/spoiler] you just have your headcannon to make Tien an alien(despite him being classified as a human)just to exlcude Tien from Toriyama's statement so Krillin would not be stronger than him.
Whatever Roshi or Krillin is the strongest human does not matter to me but we know for sure Tien isn't.

Tangential strength discussion, spoiler'd for anyone interested.
[spoiler]Toriyama may say Kuririn is the strongest human, but we know from reading the manga that Tenshinhan is much stronger. Right from his first introduction, Tenshinhan is set up as a rival that even Goku can't defeat. In the Cell arc, he is much more involved with the initial conflict with the Artificial Humans, while Kuririn is designated the task of carrying Yamcha away. Tenshinhan holds back Cell. Tenshinhan deflects a blast from Boo. Tenshinhan joins Piccolo and No. 18 in attacking Beerus. Tenshinhan constantly trains, while Kuririn has moved on to family life. When Toriyama says Kuririn is the strongest human, he must either not consider Tenshinhan a human, isn't thinking about Tenshinhan, or is just trying to portray Kuririn in a better light. This isn't even about Kuririn being the first eliminated from U7 at the ToP, which isn't significant imo. It's just based on everything that the manga has told us for more than half of it's run at this point. There's no debate to be had. The strength of U7's fighters from weakest to strongest (based on the manga) is Kame-sen'nin, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, No. 18, Piccolo, No.17, Gohan, Freeza, Vegeta/Goku.[/spoiler]

Just because someone trains that does not mean he is gonna surpass him.Gohan was stronger than Piccolo from buu arc to rof arc despite not training.
Also based on the manga is such a lose statement considering we don't even know where most characters stand right now,heck we don't even know how strong Golden Freeza is.
Saying Akira stated that because he did not want to hurt Krillin's feeling or something is funny since his statement is as clear as it can be.

[batistabus]

Just because someone trains that does not mean he is gonna surpass him.Gohan was stronger than Piccolo from buu arc to rof arc despite not training.
Also based on the manga is such a lose statement considering we don't even know where most characters stand right now,heck we don't even know how strong Golden Freeza is.
Saying Akira stated that because he did not want to hurt Krillin's feeling or something is funny since his statement is as clear as it can be.

Tenshinhan is always shown to be much stronger than Kuririn. On top of that, Kuririn does not train and Tenshinhan does. Seems clear as it can be to me. I would love to see Kuririn be competitive with Tenshinhan, but this has never been shown to be the case. Actions speak louder than words.

We know Golden Freeza is still up to par with at least standard SSB Goku.

I recommend that you refer to Akira Toriyama by his surname rather than his given name, as you are not a close friend of his.

[JulianStyles]

He never stated that. He said Krillin strongest Earthling. The direct translation is "terrestrial human". Now do you want to have a discussion or you want to believe in a blind statement? Because I have links to mutiple sources stating Tien is not an Earthling. His voice actor says hes not. Toriyama says hes not human. Daizenshuu states hes a decendant of aliens. That statement has been repeated in many games and orange box dvd bios. 17 and 18 are Earthlings. Recent retcons say they are human who were programed to be evil. Thats straight from the manga. The anime says humans modified onthe cellular level. Now do you want these links or you want to keep spreading false information? Because bow do you stick by that statement when all thr visual evidence say other wise? Even if you want to go by the Anime TOP. Roshi is more powerful. So you going to take a vague statement?

Its not a blind statement,Toriyama's statement is as clear as it can be.Also the guidebooks says Tien is descended from a clan that is descendent from Aliens.
So whatever minimal Alien dna he has does not matter since the connection is so far away to the point it does matter.
17 and 18 are classified as cyborgs,not humans.
Also Tien is listed as a human in the same guidebook that mentions what you said.I have proof right here, [spoiler][/spoiler] you just have your headcannon to make Tien an alien(despite him being classified as a human)just to exlcude Tien from Toriyama's statement so Krillin would not be stronger than him.
Whatever Roshi or Krillin is the strongest human does not matter to me but we know for sure Tien isn't.

Ok so you dont want to have a serious discussion. Because I told you what recent statements about 17 and 18 are and you ignored that. They were born human and give birth to humans. They are Earthlings. That Daizenshuu guide the main introduction to Earthlings state Piccolo and Tiens race migrated to Earth. It also groups Gohans as an Earthling in some categories.
In that pic is Krillin stronger than Uub? Understand the Japanese language and maybe you conceive how this could be misunderstood. Its context. Every language had it. Depending how how its being used. In Japan the word for human and mortal are the same word. Nigen. So was Zamasu was calling all non gods mortals. But according to you. If a word means some thing we need to take it at face value and not use critical thinking. So everyone in the universe are human? Because thats what the word for them. You ignored Tiens voice actor saying hes not human. I offered the link. You ignored that. It was a group interview. And in it Yamchas voice actor says Krillin and Yamcha are strongest Earthlings. I offered you the link of Toriyama saying Tien is not human when he was asked you ignore that. So do you really think youre allowing yourself all the information?

[ShinTenshin]

Hermila is a tough opponent that give trouble to Gohan and Piccolo.
Eliminate him is far beyond the capacity of Krilin.
From a power level view, Toriyama chose to give to Tenshinhan a victory against a strong opponent.
When Krilin need to use a trick to eliminate a warrior far far weaker than Ganos, the warrior eliminated by his own master.

The DBSUPER Manga confirm than Krilin stop his training and act as a coward.
So the love from Anime version is nothing but a Toei exclusive and isn't related to Toriyama script.
Don't be surprised if Krilin look like a trash in the Toyotaro version.
I mean, there is a reason why he's the first one to be gone.

[Whatever]

Ok so you dont want to have a serious discussion. Because I told you what recent statements about 17 and 18 are and you ignored that.
They were born human and give birth to humans. They are Earthlings.

They are Earthlings but they are classified as cyborgs instead of humans like i said to you before.

That Daizenshuu guide the main introduction to Earthlings state Piccolo and Tiens race migrated to Earth. It also groups Gohans as an Earthling in some categories.

I don't see what that has to do with anything,point is Krillin and Tien are both Earthling and humans,they are even classified as one so you can't use the excuse Tien is an alien when Toriyama said that Krillin was the strongest human.

In that pic is Krillin stronger than Uub? Understand the Japanese language and maybe you conceive how this could be misunderstood. Its context. Every language had it. Depending how how its being used. In Japan the word for human and mortal are the same word. Nigen. So was Zamasu was calling all non gods mortals. But according to you. If a word means some thing we need to take it at face value and not use critical thinking. So everyone in the universe are human

What are you even talking about?Zamasu and the words he used have nothing to do with the words in the scans.

Because thats what the word for them. You ignored Tiens voice actor saying hes not human. I offered the link. You ignored that. It was a group interview. And in it Yamchas voice actor says Krillin and Yamcha are strongest Earthlings. I offered you the link of Toriyama saying Tien is not human when he was asked you ignore that. So do you really think youre allowing yourself all the information?

Again what are you talking about?You never showed me anything.

Tenshinhan is always shown to be much stronger than Kuririn. On top of that, Kuririn does not train and Tenshinhan does. Seems clear as it can be to me. I would love to see Kuririn be competitive with Tenshinhan, but this has never been shown to be the case. Actions speak louder than words.

We know Golden Freeza is still up to par with at least standard SSB Goku.

I recommend that you refer to Akira Toriyama by his surname rather than his given name, as you are not a close friend of his.

Not always in the saiyan saga Krillin outperformed Tien but the powerlevels list we got says Tien is stronger at that point of the story.
Again just because Tien trains and Krillin does not,that does not mean anything as shown by the Gohan and Piccolo example i gave you.

We don't know that as far as the manga goes since we never show Golden Freeza fight,we just assume he is because of the movie and the anime.

Does it really matter if i refer to him as Akira or Toriyama?I know its rude where he lives to call the person by his first name but this is the internet so...

[Hawk9211]

All I say is to take this to strength thread.

[nato25]

Just read the newest chapter. Gohan is wearing his piccolo gi again instead of goku's gi? That's a cool change and will be cool to see him back in ultimate with it on.

[JulianStyles]

Current DBS writer Toshio saying Tien is an Alien. So Krillin can be the strongest Earthling.
https://mobile.twitter.com/toshio916/st ... 1738408960

Translated pages of the Daiz that state Tien is a decendant of Aliens. Read the Earthlings introduction. It talks about Piccolo,Tien and Sayains as alien species that have made Earth their home.
http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guideb ... ldview.php

Interview with Toriyama when asked if Tien was human. He gives you perspective on how his culture sees Tien.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/press-archive ... -toriyama/

Interview with the DB cast. In which Tiens voice actor says Tien is not Earthling. And later Yamchas voice actor says Krillin and Yamcha are the strongest Earthlings.http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ice-talks/

All the other points you couldnt understand. I cant help you with.

[Totamo]

Current DBS writer Toshio saying Tien is an Alien. So Krillin can be the strongest Earthling.
https://mobile.twitter.com/toshio916/st ... 1738408960

Translated pages of the Daiz that state Tien is a decendant of Aliens. Read the Earthlings introduction. It talks about Piccolo,Tien and Sayains as alien species that have made Earth their home.
http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guideb ... ldview.php

Interview with Toriyama when asked if Tien was human. He gives you perspective on how his culture sees Tien.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/press-archive ... -toriyama/

Interview with the DB cast. In which Tiens voice actor says Tien is not Earthling. And later Yamchas voice actor says Krillin and Yamcha are the strongest Earthlings.http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ice-talks/

All the other points you couldnt understand. I cant help you with.

Look, it has never been stated in the manga or anime that tien is an alien.

[Lionel]

This may sound like a stretch but at one point during the fight with Tenshinhan, Goku motions his arms so quickly that he gives the impression that he's sprouted six additional limbs. Roshi saw through the illusion and reasoned that Goku couldn't actually create more limbs. Why is that? Fighters like Goku have demonstrated great aptitude for replicating techniques in the past. What makes the Shiyoken any different? The Four-Witches technique was characterised as a three-eyed alien exclusive, by the way.

Shiyouken [Fist of Four Arms]
First Appearance: Chapter 132
Category: special
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A unique attack technique where he forms protuberances from his shoulder blades, which he then changes into arms. Tenshinhan is the only one capable of using this technique, which is largely related to the abilities he was born with. In short, like the Shishin no Ken, this is also a technique that takes advantage of the special abilities of his ancestors, the Three-Eyed People. Tenshinhan used this technique during his fight with Goku during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai. Unleashing an opening-free attack with his four arms, Goku wasn’t able to seize the opportunity to counterattack. (Daizenshuu 2, p.206/Daizenshuu 4, p.114)

[ToshioWrites]

I don't think Vegeta's new form (123) will be in the Manga. I feel like its just Toei's way to correct the kaioken gap since in the manga goku and vegeta are equal in terms of power as there is no kaioken. My guess is that Toriyama might have said that the only gap between the two will be UI in this arc

[TKA]

Take the power level discussion to another thread. Who gives a damn about Tenshinhan or Krillin being like the 20th strongest character in the show? I have my opinions on the matter, but they're irrelevant to this thread.

[spoiler]Anyway, someone mentioned that Krillin fights even when weaker, but neglected to mention one of the best examples of him doing so, even if an anime-only moment: when he attacked Super Buu (fully expecting to die) to buy everyone time to escape.[/spoiler]

[Zamasu55]

The fact that Krillin was the first to be eliminated in the anime doesn't mean it's going to be the same in the manga.

Anyway, here's a little scheme about U7 fighters in the manga.

Goku: He says he's gotten rusty since the last arc. He was still able to fight evenly with Toppo and lost only because he underestimated him. Anyway, his power level's the same from the Future Trunks arc. Merged Zamasu tier.

Vegeta: He got stronger by training with Whis. Against Beerus, he did quite well and it was stated that he reached Goku. Merged Zamasu tier, too.

Krillin: Didn't train AND is out of shape. He's probably as strong as his Buu saga self, so Captain Ginyu tier.

18: Didn't train. So, she's as strong as she was during the Androids arc.

17: He trained and got stronger. He did well against Ssj3 Goku and scared him off, but the latter was on the defensive all the time Anyway, he's slightly below Ssj3 tier for me. So, weaker than Ssj2 Future Trunks (manga), but stronger than Zamasu (both Present and Future).

Piccolo: He trained with Gohan and got stronger surely. Don't know how much, but his recent self was able to make Frost cheat... anyway, probably Perfect Cell tier.

Gohan: He trained with Piccolo and Vegeta didn't "even recognize him". Interesting. He'll end up being stronger than his Buu saga self, for sure.

Muten Roshi: Didn't train but he got stronger in the past. Probably Raditz tier.

Tienshinhan: Didn't train for the event, but he always trains, perhapes he's the only one who did never stop. He's probably a bit stronger than his ROF self. Captain Ginyu tier.

Freeza: Got stronger. That's all it was said about him.

[batistabus]

Anyway, here's a little scheme about U7 fighters in the manga.

I'd say this is pretty fair.

[spoiler]Anyway, someone mentioned that Krillin fights even when weaker, but neglected to mention one of the best examples of him doing so, even if an anime-only moment: when he attacked Super Buu (fully expecting to die) to buy everyone time to escape.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Because it is anime-only, it has no bearing on Kuririn's as far as Toriyama is concerned, so it's not relevant imo. That being said, I'd say that was an in-character moment.[/spoiler]

I don't think Vegeta's new form (123) will be in the Manga. I feel like its just Toei's way to correct the kaioken gap since in the manga goku and vegeta are equal in terms of power as there is no kaioken. My guess is that Toriyama might have said that the only gap between the two will be UI in this arc

I will be shocked if Vegeta's power-up from 123 appears in the manga. It just screams "Toei" to me. We know that Vegeta has already mastered SSB in the manga, so this transformation has no need to exist.

Not always in the saiyan saga Krillin outperformed Tien but the powerlevels list we got says Tien is stronger at that point of the story.
Again just because Tien trains and Krillin does not,that does not mean anything as shown by the Gohan and Piccolo example i gave you.

We don't know that as far as the manga goes since we never show Golden Freeza fight,we just assume he is because of the movie and the anime.

Does it really matter if i refer to him as Akira or Toriyama?I know its rude where he lives to call the person by his first name but this is the internet so...

Done talking about Ten vs Kuririn, because apparently we just won't agree on this.

We know that the two fight and show up badly damaged. Goku would have needed at least standard SSB to be able to compete with Freeza's golden form, which Whis mentions in Chapter 5.

Referring to him as "Akira" is considered to be in bad taste. You can do whatever you want, but people who refer to him as "Akira" have the reputation of being uninformed and inconsiderate. I don't think you are those things, so that's why I made the suggestion.

[Olympian]

Can we discuss the manga has portrayed Krillin for who he is. A out of shape scared bitch. No wonder he will be first eliminated. Strongest Earthling my ass.

Jesus, is Goku roasting his own friends actually a thing now? In FigtherZ in two different Yamcha cutscenes, he either unknowingly roasts Krillin or Yamcha. When the frag did Goku turn into such an asshole that he started disrespeting his own friends, all who are MA accomplices and former team students? You weren`t like this when you were a kid living in the mountains with no concept of social interactions.

Even worse is Krillin coming out with the first kick on his own legs and yet he comes in whereas someone like Yamcha don`t just because he`s a Toryama darling They are fucking these characters up.

[Olympian]

So we officially know now the Tien bashing of episode 89 and 90 was Toei made up bull shit. And not from Toriyama.

I`m really perplexed at the notion that Tien bashed Yamcha in all versions when it`s clearly never been the case. But whoever wants to push the joke and I`m not sayig the poster I was adressing this with, is one of them, but whoever wants to push the joke can do what you can read on Gamefaqs boards.

"Tien totally bashed Yamcha in the latest chapter because he said he would get Chiatzu if he was too scared to come!"

Which is again not the case here. At this point haters and "comedians" will push the narrative as it suits them. I am more upset at studios and devs giving them the ammo to run things with.

[batistabus]

So we officially know now the Tien bashing of episode 89 and 90 was Toei made up bull shit. And not from Toriyama.

I`m really perplexed at the notion that Tien bashed Yamcha in all versions when it`s clearly never been the case. But whoever wants to push the joke and I`m not sayig the poster I was adressing this with, is one of them, but whoever wants to push the joke can do what you can read on Gamefaqs boards.

"Tien totally bashed Yamcha in the latest chapter because he said he would get Chiatzu if he was too scared to come!"

Which is again not the case here. At this point haters and "comedians" will push the narrative as it suits them. I am more upset at studios and devs giving them the ammo to run things with.

Again, these are humans who have genuine fears and insecurities. After being impaled by No. 20 and restored with Senzu, Yamcha decided to tag along but not fight. Same for the Cell Games. This doesn't mean Yamcha is a coward, but it means that Yamcha isn't as brave as, say, Goku. Tenshinhan and Kame-sen'nin think Goku is attempting to recruit Yamcha, but because Goku has yet to show up, assume Yamcha is too afraid to compete. This is a reasonable assumption considering the stakes of the tournament and Yamcha's previous behavior. Chaozu has shown his willingness to blatantly sacrifice himself for the greater good, which would be useful despite the fact that he isn't as strong as Yamcha. This doens't mean Tenshinhan is "roasting" yamcha, it just means he's looking at the situation realistically.

[TKA]

with no concept of social interactions.

That's literally why he "roasts" them. To them it's mean and cruel, but to him he's just being honest because he doesn't know any better. There's absolutely no malice in what Goku says. He's just a literal brain damaged idiot.