"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Vegeta_Sama]

Too much krillin? Are you sure you don't mean someone else? He literally got taken out in a couple of panels chapters ago.

He must be talking about him speaking from the benches.

Yes , in chapter 35 he was in 13 panels involved, making comments in most of them .
Not a biggie, just happy that he didn’t talk in the last one

Oh, that's what you meant. Yeah, spectators commentary is annoying asf, it works better in anime form because with voice acting and music they can really hype up a scene, but they don't have the same effect on the manga sadly

[prince212]

So , caoulifla first speech in this chapter was :
“ what’s up with this guy , he’s only going after us , saiyans “
Considering is the first interaction with freeza -u6 saiyans , and previous eliminations by freeza to non saiyans ........ what should I think ?
Bad translation, bad writing, offscreen thing ...

Oh, that's what you meant. Yeah, spectators commentary is annoying asf, it works better in anime form because with voice acting and music they can really hype up a scene, but they don't have the same effect on the manga sadly

Abusing of spectators comments is annoying in both mediums, it can be good some in certain moments .
13 panels for Krillin and may be 9 comments was too much for me ..ch.35

[Saiga]

The bench talk hasn't bothered me so far but I really hope it doesn't reach the levels of the anime. I don't think it worked in the anime because they did it way too often and the dialogue was usually pretty bad/meaningless.

Anyway, this was a good chapter but I'll echo the sentiments of those who don't see it as so much better than the other TOP chapters. The Frost one is probably still my favourite.

Freeza does seem a lot weaker than I expected, clearly not following those lines from ROF about his first form being a monster above Piccolo and SS Gohan. Since Toyotarou didn't adapt ROF I wonder how he would have handled Freeza's strength back then. I welcome the toning down of his power, though.

Freeza's interactions with the Saiyans was pretty good. He actually got to fight the girls here and wasn't obnoxious about his dislike for the Saiyans. Kale's character is much more interesting to me than her anime version, I dislike the quiet/shy girl archetype when there isn't much more to it and on top of that the anime tacked on some Yandere/jealously traits to make her really unappealing. Her Kale is actually very capable and is quiet so that she doesn't overshadow Caulifla. Interestingly, she seems not only to protect Caulifla's pride (ala Vegeta and Trunks) but to hold onto her own delusion that Caulifla is the strongest.

Kale's power is a little easier to buy here when her base form was so strong to begin with, so it's not just the transformation that is special. In the anime base Kale was really inept which made it jarring when her transformation gave her such a boost in power, especially when the transformations don't really get explained. I hadn't expected her to be this strong in the manga, and I'm hoping the next chapter explains why she is so strong a bit more.

If it doesn't, though... eh. I find it better handled than the anime version already, and I guess I can accept her being a freak of a Saiyan that has become super powerful over the span of her like. Freeza reached this same tier in four months after all. I'm not normally one to try and justify things by comparing them to low points - I think you should be trying to do more than just avoid creating moments on par with the series' worst - but I don't think this is nearly as hard to buy as Freeza's strength, and it's kind of the logival conclusion of allowing Freeza to get do strong like that.

Really digging Kale's Super Saiyan design, and how she keeps bulking up over the course of the chapter.

[Bergamo]

Even though I don't fully subscribe to the mindset of power multipliers, if Kale is stronger than a super saiyan in base, shouldn't her super saiyan form be over 50x stronger than ssj Goku? This is not even mentioning the fact that Kale's super saiyan could be a more potent transformation, and she gets more powerful over time.

[Saiga]

Even though I don't fully subscribe to the mindset of power multipliers, if Kale is stronger than a super saiyan in base, shouldn't her super saiyan form be over 50x stronger than ssj Goku? This is not even mentioning the fact that Kale's super saiyan could be a more potent transformation, and she gets more powerful over time.

Logically, yes, although there are a few issues with. For starters, neither Super anime or manga makes the Super Saiyan form feel like a 50x boost and I doubt it's being consciously written with that in mind - hell, I know Toei don't have that in mind, they never did - so it's weird that it only seems to be a big deal for Kale.

Secondly, Kale being over 50x stronger than Goku in the same form is really huge, and questionable. Goku's one of the most talented and powerful people in all the universes, and he took a long time to build up his strength. So it's very weird for her to be so powerful as a newly introduced character.

Lastly, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is, in the most simple interpretation, using Super Saiyan on top of Super Saiyan God. I believe that is the intent of the form, so whatever boost Super Saiyan gives now, I think the intent is for Super Saiyan Blue to give that boost over Super Saiyan God (especially since the 'complete' Blue is basically two transformations higher than God). Several pieces of media make it sound like that is the simple explanation of it.

Also, man, this would make Kale's potential is absurd. If they just gave her Super Saiyan 2, she'd be stronger than Beerus - CSSB Vegeta could force Beerus to go all out at least - and with Super Saiyan 3 she'd be insane. God and Blue beyond that.

So I'm hoping that her form is something unique and not just her version of Super Saiyan 1 with the implication that she could stack the other transformations on top of it.

[Sora Saiyan]

Even though I don't fully subscribe to the mindset of power multipliers, if Kale is stronger than a super saiyan in base, shouldn't her super saiyan form be over 50x stronger than ssj Goku? This is not even mentioning the fact that Kale's super saiyan could be a more potent transformation, and she gets more powerful over time.

It’ll end up being a lot higher than that because of the fight that Vegeta had with Black. We know there that Vegetas SSJ2 form was miles ahead of SSJ Black, who was a lot stronger than FP SSJ2 Trunks in just his base, and FPSSJ2 Trunks was basically equal to SSJ3 Goku.

Kale’s a monster in base, but a power up for her to hang with the god tier fighters is gonna be a hell of a lot higher than the regular SSJ form multiplier. This form is clearly unique, and just for her to hang with Freeza we know it’s an insane boost, mixed with the fact her power keeps on sky rocketing... yep she’s trouble.

[OriginalRed]

Kale's base strength being even stronger than SSJ Caulifla's/Cabba's is a bit of a stretch for me. As if that's the case, then that would mean she could destroy either Goku or Vegeta in base. This isn't even mentioning what would happen if Kale got a whiff of Divine Ki lol, she'd easily be a Fusion tier Saiyan by herself.

[BWri]

With regards to comparing Kale the anime version and the manga version, I think this one of those cases where the two mediums (anime and manga) takes two different approaches at the characterization of certain new characters to get the most they feel they can get out what kind of story they want to tell with the devices at their disposal and what they like about Dragon Ball the best. Toei wanted to give Kale the "Saiyan arc Gohan" treatment with her character development, while making her more of a mythology gag in her initial appearances, and Toyotaro is more straightforward with Kale making her a more no-nonsense Saiyan right off the bat. And how much mileage people get out those approaches will vary. This is much like how Toei and Toyotaro treated Goku Black and Zamasu. The incarnations of those characters had many subtle and nuanced differences that made they seem different when compared to eachother. But how they were written benefited what kind of stories both mediums wanted to tell. Both mediums can take notes from eachother, but ultimately want to tell the story in their own ways.

I know this will never happen, but for a long time now I've been craving a "fully perfected" version of DBS that merges the best of Toyotaro's manga with Toei's anime. I know the word "best" is subjective, but each medium has huge flaws but also great things going for it. I just simply like Toyotaro's conservative approach in some cases, but in others, the anime's balls-out dumb fun approach works much better. For ToP, if I can get the Toyotaro U6 Saiyans to replace the anime ones, it would automatically elevate that arc for me.

[Marlowe89]

The bench talk hasn't bothered me so far but I really hope it doesn't reach the levels of the anime. I don't think it worked in the anime because they did it way too often and the dialogue was usually pretty bad/meaningless.

This is actually a point I'd planned to touch on previously -- indeed, the peanut gallery has been put to much better use in the manga. You can generally expect some important exposition or funny little gag moments that reveal more about the characters (like Beerus finding Ribrianne attractive) whenever they chime in here. Conversely, the anime has them interjecting non-stop with a lot of uninteresting dialogue, which really hurts the flow and pacing of the narrative. It's especially jarring when the characters repeat information that we were already privy to from prior statements or context cues; most of the time it just felt like the scriptwriters were attempting to fill in air time that they didn't know what to do with.

[Bergamo]

Kale's base strength being even stronger than SSJ Caulifla's/Cabba's is a bit of a stretch for me. As if that's the case, then that would mean she could destroy either Goku or Vegeta in base. This isn't even mentioning what would happen if Kale got a whiff of Divine Ki lol, she'd easily be a Fusion tier Saiyan by herself.

Hasn't this always been the case in dragon ball? If Saiyan Saga Vegeta knew the kaioken x2 then he'd be so much stronger than Goku, and if Goku and Vegeta still had their tails then they'd probably be able to beat Beerus. You could even argue that anyone could get their potential unlocked by elder kai and increase their power greatly, but no one ever does it. This is just another one of those things that you're not supposed to think about.

[OLKv3]

Oddly enough the TV ratings also began to drop after the Trunks saga.

People love time travel and characters with sad backstories
Trunks has both. He's always a big sell. That's why he's the face of the Xenoverse games too, and now the focal point of the current Heroes arc

[SSJgogeto]

Caulifla's attack looks a lot like Atomic Kamehameha.

[Bergamo]

Even though I don't fully subscribe to the mindset of power multipliers, if Kale is stronger than a super saiyan in base, shouldn't her super saiyan form be over 50x stronger than ssj Goku? This is not even mentioning the fact that Kale's super saiyan could be a more potent transformation, and she gets more powerful over time.

It’ll end up being a lot higher than that because of the fight that Vegeta had with Black. We know there that Vegetas SSJ2 form was miles ahead of SSJ Black, who was a lot stronger than FP SSJ2 Trunks in just his base, and FPSSJ2 Trunks was basically equal to SSJ3 Goku.

Kale’s a monster in base, but a power up for her to hang with the god tier fighters is gonna be a hell of a lot higher than the regular SSJ form multiplier. This form is clearly unique, and just for her to hang with Freeza we know it’s an insane boost, mixed with the fact her power keeps on sky rocketing... yep she’s trouble.

Trunks vs Goku in the Goku Black Saga is the one example of blatantly wrong powerscaling in the manga as far as I'm aware. It's implied that...
SS3 Goku = FPSS2 Trunks < SS1 Black < SS1 Vegeta
This must mean that not only is Goku significantly weaker than Vegeta, but he is also significantly weaker than himself.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

I liked this chapter, it was fun. I liked how Kale was holding back because she didn't want Caulifa to know she was stronger. It reminded me a bit of when Trunks didn't want to save Vegeta because he didn't want to show he was stronger during the fight with Cell. So that was kind of a nice Parallel.

[LightBing]

Trunks vs Goku in the Goku Black Saga is the one example of blatantly wrong powerscaling in the manga as far as I'm aware. It's implied that...
SS3 Goku = FPSS2 Trunks < SS1 Black < SS1 Vegeta
This must mean that not only is Goku significantly weaker than Vegeta, but he is also significantly weaker than himself.

But Vegeta in Super Saiyan 2 is stronger than SSJ3 Goku as shown in BoG. Nobody said his power boost was temporary, Toyotarõ is being consistent.

[Bergamo]

Trunks vs Goku in the Goku Black Saga is the one example of blatantly wrong powerscaling in the manga as far as I'm aware. It's implied that...
SS3 Goku = FPSS2 Trunks < SS1 Black < SS1 Vegeta
This must mean that not only is Goku significantly weaker than Vegeta, but he is also significantly weaker than himself.

But Vegeta in Super Saiyan 2 is stronger than SSJ3 Goku as shown in BoG. Nobody said his power boost was temporary, Toyotarõ is being consistent.

I'm pretty sure that Vegeta is supposed to be SS1 in that fight, but I like this explanation.

[jeffbr92]

Good chapter, kudos to Toyotaro for giving something interesting to read after the last month crap. The only thing that I didn't like was Freeza needing to turn Golden to fight SSJ Caulifla, but power levels are screwed in both medias so whatever.

[Lord Frieza]

So Golden Frieza has gotten nurfed and Kale's carrying a big can of woop-ass...

One minut your down, the next your right back up again.

[MisteryOne]

So Golden Frieza has gotten nurfed and Kale's carrying a big can of woop-ass...

One minut your down, the next your right back up again.

Can you explain to me how Golden Frieza was nerfed?

Final form Frieza is more or less equal with Base Goku.

Golden Frieza is more or less equal with Blue Goku.

If Frieza fought SS1 Goku he would have to turn Golden as well. Exactly what he did in this chapter. Where is the nerfed part?

[Lord Frieza]

So Golden Frieza has gotten nurfed and Kale's carrying a big can of woop-ass...

One minut your down, the next your right back up again.

Can you explain to me how Golden Frieza was nerfed?

Final form Frieza is more or less equal with Base Goku.

Golden Frieza is more or less equal with Blue Goku.

If Frieza fought SS1 Goku he would have to turn Golden as well. Exactly what he did in this chapter. Where is the nerfed part?

Your going to have to forgive me, I have barely followed anything sinc the anime ended.

I had heard down the grap vine that Frieza was having a tough time with Califla, I have just now looked up the chapter on Viz and he clearly is not. He makes all of them look like a joke until Kale bersek button gets pushed.