"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2393
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:07 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Lionel wrote:"Letting people down."

Maybe the context is escaping me but when does Goku let people down? He's almost always the one to quell some large imposing menace that has everyone else quaking in their boots. In fact, it occasionally seems to come at the expense of others handling their own conflicts (Tenshinhan's very basic humdrum scuffle with Drum comes to mind). The only times I can think of him failing to meet up to others' expectations are when he spares some gruesome menace or he's allowing an enemy to power up. In the end those kinds of situations tend to work themselves out anyway.

If anyone should be cursing anything it's the other Z-warriors for having their efficacy seemingly dulled for the purposes of embellishment and grandstanding.
Bad translation.
もう周りに惑わされんのはおしまいだ

The actual translation is more along the lines of "I won't let myself be fooled by my surroundings anymore." Now Viz could've taken the meaning of 周り to be those around Goku who rely on him which is a bit of a stretch imo, and since 惑わす is being used in the passive form, one could interpret that the action of being fooled is done by those around Goku so that's where the Viz translation comes from. I think Herms also covered this before but just my own 2 cents.
I see, thank you for the clarification.

It's still somewhat odd that such a shortcoming would be ailing him, though. Kami's training was supposed to have attuned his mental comprehension to the activities of the world around him, yes?

reecehoward
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:52 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by reecehoward » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:39 pm

Bergamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
reecehoward wrote: Outside of Hit and Roshi, I don't recall any dynamic special moves being used. Jiren himself hasn't even done anything that makes him an interesting fighter.

This is a story, moments should always be what it's about or else there's is no real point in writing it at all. As I've detailed above, you can give memorable moments in the midst of chaotic rumblings. In my second example with Tien, we not only get to see him doing something, but we get to see what his opponent can do! You show something like that, then shift the focus back to a main event, and come back to show a few dynamic panels leading to the conclusion of that fight. This should have been the type of things happening in the first few chapters of this arc. That way, we know exactly why it's impressive when these newcomers either win or lose.
Tien did used the Tri-Beam that Frost tanked. Also Hit’s Time Lag.

And are we actually saying we don’t need special techniques? Even the original manga had new characters do something unique besides punch and kick. I mean, look at Dabura or even freaking Guido.

The God of Destruction battle was a royal rumble free for all, yet we saw special moves. Being sneaking and special techniques are not one or another. It can be both like some can pull a Naruto Shadow Clone abs drag someone out of the ring.
I think there is a healthy middle. On one hand, special moves do add variety, but I really didn't care about Shantza's attack or the Black hole of love. Of course there is never any balance in Super. The anime is always excessive and the manga always leaves the reader wanting more.
That's the issue though. Toyo doesn't have to give them what's used in the anime. He can be creative and give them his own unique powers. It doesn't take much to do that. He didn't even attempt to do so.

In this case, there's no need to compare to the anime, as it's not really necessary to point out the issues in this version of the arc. This arc should be all about spectacle, yet this version has hardly anything of the sort going. That's not good. Damn what the anime did(even if it did get that part right), that's irrelevant for what the manga is not doing. The anime is over and done with, and most fans were satisfied with that version of the arc. This problem is wholly the manga's and many of fans are dissatisfied with it, some of whom could give less of a fuck about the anime and what it did.

User avatar
LimitbreakerKrillin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LimitbreakerKrillin » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:15 pm

How much of the DBS manga was mistranslated by VIZ?

User avatar
Marlowe89
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:23 pm

Bergamo wrote:The anime is always excessive and the manga always leaves the reader wanting more.
I disagree with the latter. None of these chapters have been flawless, but I'm generally satisfied with the amount of content in the manga thus far. Notable exceptions include Gohan vs. Kefla, which was both underdeveloped and handled too poorly to justify its inclusion.

And as much as I might have repeated this, I couldn't possibly care less about "spectacle" in an arc that's supposed to be, in my view, showing me the polar opposite of it (at least until the climax, at which point that tonal shift is necessitated by the reduced number of competitors). As someone familiar with battle royales in fiction, what I do want to see is a thrilling, disorganized game of pure survival. What I do want to see is characters getting in over their heads and not knowing how to respond to situations that they're mentally unprepared for, either losing immediately in the process or quickly formulating new strategies on the spot. I got that with Freeza and Frost, I got that with Hit, I got that with Universe 7 vs. Universe 4, I got that with Kale's character arc, and I got that with the threat imposed by Jiren. Nearly every chapter prioritizes THAT quality over the desire for spectacle, melodrama, and/or pointless flash where it isn't warranted.

If I'm going to remain engaged in a story, that story needs to be congruent with its premise. Toyotaro delivers on that premise for me because he doesn't beat around the bush conveying how terrifying these circumstances realistically and truly are. Toei approached it as if almost every fighter in the ring had a significant presence. That would have worked for a traditional tournament, but Toriyama didn't want it to be a traditional tournament. Neither did I.

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:01 am

Marlowe89 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:The anime is always excessive and the manga always leaves the reader wanting more.
I disagree with the latter. None of these chapters have been flawless, but I'm generally satisfied with the amount of content in the manga thus far. Notable exceptions include Gohan vs. Kefla, which was both underdeveloped and handled too poorly to justify its inclusion.

And as much as I might have repeated this, I couldn't possibly care less about "spectacle" in an arc that's supposed to be, in my view, showing me the polar opposite of it (at least until the climax, at which point that tonal shift is necessitated by the reduced number of competitors). As someone familiar with battle royales in fiction, what I do want to see is a thrilling, disorganized game of pure survival. What I do want to see is characters getting in over their heads and not knowing how to respond to situations that they're mentally unprepared for, either losing immediately in the process or quickly formulating new strategies on the spot. I got that with Freeza and Frost, I got that with Hit, I got that with Universe 7 vs. Universe 4, I got that with Kale's character arc, and I got that with the threat imposed by Jiren. Nearly every chapter prioritizes THAT quality over the desire for spectacle, melodrama, and/or pointless flash where it isn't warranted.

If I'm going to remain engaged in a story, that story needs to be congruent with its premise. Toyotaro delivers on that premise for me because he doesn't beat around the bush conveying how terrifying these circumstances realistically and truly are. Toei approached it as if almost every fighter in the ring had a significant presence. That would have worked for a traditional tournament, but Toriyama didn't want it to be a traditional tournament. Neither did I.
Dude, you're still defending the manga after all of this time? it's been like 2 months? The manga has gone downhill. It's mostly accepted as medicore to downright garbage, most people have the anime better now. The manga is...not good anymore. The writing latley has become lackluster. the creatvity has plummeted, the page lay-out compostion is bad. The power scailing is on the anime level... the only thing the manga has left is the art and the gore. Other then that, everything has gone quite south. It's not interesting anymore, i'm still baffled how you can support this medcriotiy until now. I mean look, I feel bad for toyotaro and the manga, and for dragon ball in general because the dbs manga was like the last real good product of modern dragon ball, but it's kinda garbage now. And now you come across as an apologist more so then anything. Chapter 39 and 40 have been bad, straight up! 40 was so bad I forgot what even happened in the chapter other then vegeta fighting jiren and proclaiming about not having a teacher or something... people may call that "sweet" writing, I call that character stagnation. If toyotaro wanted to use an anime only concept, he should have used vegeta getting omen and making goku get UI. If toyotaro wanted roshi, he should have made roshi win the whole thing by some neat little trick or some. Real toriyama-esqe creativity and humor. If he wanted gohan shine, he should have used him in a more creatvity way then saying "I don't fight like a sayain" then throw him in the background off screen to kefla (the powerscailing of that fight made no sense). Toyotaro has done bad. And you know I'm being honest and not a anime fanboy because I used to defend the manga.

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:05 am

reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Tien did used the Tri-Beam that Frost tanked. Also Hit’s Time Lag.

And are we actually saying we don’t need special techniques? Even the original manga had new characters do something unique besides punch and kick. I mean, look at Dabura or even freaking Guido.

The God of Destruction battle was a royal rumble free for all, yet we saw special moves. Being sneaking and special techniques are not one or another. It can be both like some can pull a Naruto Shadow Clone abs drag someone out of the ring.
I think there is a healthy middle. On one hand, special moves do add variety, but I really didn't care about Shantza's attack or the Black hole of love. Of course there is never any balance in Super. The anime is always excessive and the manga always leaves the reader wanting more.
That's the issue though. Toyo doesn't have to give them what's used in the anime. He can be creative and give them his own unique powers. It doesn't take much to do that. He didn't even attempt to do so.

In this case, there's no need to compare to the anime, as it's not really necessary to point out the issues in this version of the arc. This arc should be all about spectacle, yet this version has hardly anything of the sort going. That's not good. Damn what the anime did(even if it did get that part right), that's irrelevant for what the manga is not doing. The anime is over and done with, and most fans were satisfied with that version of the arc. This problem is wholly the manga's and many of fans are dissatisfied with it, some of whom could give less of a fuck about the anime and what it did.
Reece Howard, it's been awhile. My name is 4, and I'd like to apologize for staunchily defending this manga. I thought it was going to get better, but somehow it's gotten worse to the point is supar. I still think its better then the garbage anime, but toyotaro dropped the ball legitly in this ToP arc. It started the downfall in chapter 35 when Hit got knocked out for no reason, then conculded its drop-off by 39 (garbage chapter). Facts only.

User avatar
Marlowe89
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:48 am

1345521 wrote:Dude, you're still defending the manga after all of this time?

*snip*
I'm not really interested in dignifying low-effort posts like this with much of a response, but I can give you a few helpful pointers on how to have a discussion with me next time:

1. Address the actual message/argument within the post you're replying to (which, in this case, pertains solely to the quantity of content and premise of the arc).

2. Avoid going on random tangents. I didn't ask for your thoughts on 39 and 40; they're completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about. I didn't even particularly like those chapters myself, and I've already explained at length why I thought they were relatively weak in comparison to everything prior.

3. Ditch the ad hominem remarks. Don't accuse people of apologism because they don't agree with you. Don't jump to conclusions about my character, especially when you're evidently unaware of what I've already criticized in the past.

4. If you're unable to comply with the above, don't expect another reply from me in the foreseeable future.

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:52 am

Lionel wrote: I see, thank you for the clarification.

It's still somewhat odd that such a shortcoming would be ailing him, though. Kami's training was supposed to have attuned his mental comprehension to the activities of the world around him, yes?
The whole point of that scene was for Goku to remember back to his previous masters' teachings. I think it is reasonable that after overwhelming enemies with pure strength and speed, relying on his Saiyan heritage (i.e. transformations that boost speed and power but not the mind) for so long especially since Vegeta is around, he could have forgotten about his old teachings, that there are ways to improve and battle without just trying to increase your power or speed. It's like learning how to do limits once in high school but then learning differential and integral calculus afterwards. You do calculus so much more often than limits because it is easier and more instructive to formulate that you forget the fundamentals of calculus, i.e. limits. But once you're reminded that they exist and review them, it all comes back to you.
1345521 wrote: Dude, you're still defending the manga after all of this time? it's been like 2 months? The manga has gone downhill. It's mostly accepted as medicore to downright garbage, most people have the anime better now. The manga is...not good anymore. The writing latley has become lackluster. the creatvity has plummeted, the page lay-out compostion is bad. The power scailing is on the anime level... the only thing the manga has left is the art and the gore. Other then that, everything has gone quite south. It's not interesting anymore, i'm still baffled how you can support this medcriotiy until now. I mean look, I feel bad for toyotaro and the manga, and for dragon ball in general because the dbs manga was like the last real good product of modern dragon ball, but it's kinda garbage now. And now you come across as an apologist more so then anything. Chapter 39 and 40 have been bad, straight up! 40 was so bad I forgot what even happened in the chapter other then vegeta fighting jiren and proclaiming about not having a teacher or something... people may call that "sweet" writing, I call that character stagnation. If toyotaro wanted to use an anime only concept, he should have used vegeta getting omen and making goku get UI. If toyotaro wanted roshi, he should have made roshi win the whole thing by some neat little trick or some. Real toriyama-esqe creativity and humor. If he wanted gohan shine, he should have used him in a more creatvity way then saying "I don't fight like a sayain" then throw him in the background off screen to kefla (the powerscailing of that fight made no sense). Toyotaro has done bad. And you know I'm being honest and not a anime fanboy because I used to defend the manga.
There's nothing wrong with defending the manga. It's still entertaining and interesting to fans who appreciate the narrative that Toyo is trying to tell.

You don't need to feel bad for Toyotaro, he's still getting paid, his volumes are still selling, and he's going to continue DBS right to the Broly film at the very least. He's not going to lose his job or mojo over some fans here and there getting riled up on the internet.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
TKA
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:04 am

1345521 wrote: Dude, you're still defending the manga after all of this time?
It's a shame that Marlow put out such a well articulated post and got greeted with... that. Formulate an argument and leave your value claims outside.

Also, this is a forum. The whole point of it is discussion.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:21 pm

I just made a quick count of panels where Krillin is making comments from the bench after his elimination in chapter 34 ...
I counted around 65 .... that can easy make 9 pages just with his “narration” talk ... aside of ribrianne interaction with him , I found that excessive, even more In latest chapters where there are more guys in the benches.
He’s by far the mvp out of the fighting stage
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:19 pm

LimitbreakerKrillin wrote:How much of the DBS manga was mistranslated by VIZ?
It doesn't seem like very much. Herms and the other translators usually point out errors when the English chapters are released digitally.

reecehoward
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:52 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by reecehoward » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:59 pm

1345521 wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I think there is a healthy middle. On one hand, special moves do add variety, but I really didn't care about Shantza's attack or the Black hole of love. Of course there is never any balance in Super. The anime is always excessive and the manga always leaves the reader wanting more.
That's the issue though. Toyo doesn't have to give them what's used in the anime. He can be creative and give them his own unique powers. It doesn't take much to do that. He didn't even attempt to do so.

In this case, there's no need to compare to the anime, as it's not really necessary to point out the issues in this version of the arc. This arc should be all about spectacle, yet this version has hardly anything of the sort going. That's not good. Damn what the anime did(even if it did get that part right), that's irrelevant for what the manga is not doing. The anime is over and done with, and most fans were satisfied with that version of the arc. This problem is wholly the manga's and many of fans are dissatisfied with it, some of whom could give less of a fuck about the anime and what it did.
Reece Howard, it's been awhile. My name is 4, and I'd like to apologize for staunchily defending this manga. I thought it was going to get better, but somehow it's gotten worse to the point is supar. I still think its better then the garbage anime, but toyotaro dropped the ball legitly in this ToP arc. It started the downfall in chapter 35 when Hit got knocked out for no reason, then conculded its drop-off by 39 (garbage chapter). Facts only.
It's all good, I never took it personally. There's nothing wrong with defending it, but the issue has always been how unwilling the manga fans were to see the flaws, yet hypocritically trash the anime for the very same things.

As I said a few pages ago, I saw this coming ever since the Hit vs Goku fight. People were praising the manga for it's changes based solely on what they didn't like in the anime, rather than if it were good in it's own right. Now here we are, ToP. The anime has been over for a while now and most were pretty satisfied for what they got in that ToP. Everyone is looking at these changes in the manga now as if they are hot garbage. Were's the creativity? Why is 97% of the newcomers "fOdDeR" when he could imagine them to be as strong and interesting as he needs to make interesting scenes? Why is he shoehorning plot points that effectively retcons the fundamentals of combat that the entire series has adhered to for decades? These types of issues were always there, but because many thought that the previous arcs were handled better than in the anime, they gave a pass for the manga. Now Toyo doesn't have that shield, as I've said; most fans were pretty satisfied with the anime ToP for the most part. People are starting to see the issues that were always there...

I must clarify though, that I find no issue with one's enjoyment of the manga. I personally WANT to enjoy it just as much. But for years, when you have fans constantly telling you "You didn't like what the anime did? Check out the MANGA!" or "Manga is BETTER" over and over abd over and OVER, and you decide to go into it with an open mind only to be equally or even more disappointed...it's like what is it that they are seeing or not seeing? Yeah it does some things better, but overall...Leaves a lot to be desired imo. Idk, I just find it fascinating that people still find a way to praise it as if it's the best continuation we could hope for, and put you down if you down if you don't agree. The fact that you, 4, of all people have started to see the issues is telling...

User avatar
prince212
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: wild west

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Some people confuse the act of enjoy some things of this manga that they disagree with , calling them defense acts.
It’s just discussion with different points of view , there shouldn’t be attackers or defenders .
Imo the moment somebody says “ I don’t understand why you like it “ ,the respect of the discussion is lost .
On the other side I don’t recall anybody saying “ I don’t understand why you dislike it “
That is telling ....
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:14 pm

Something worth noting: Beerus says in chapter 27 that "it's been a few years" since he last fought Vegeta. Meaning that we're 3-5 years out from BoG's timeline, where Videl was visibly pregnant (Pan is only 4 at the EoZ, so this is about 5 years after Buu), which could imply a decent time gap between Zamasu and the ToP. It also means that Goku meeting Uub is only a year or two away, despite Bulma stating she hadn't seen Goku in 5 years at the 26th Budokai. The timeline is compressed as hell.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7865
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:29 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Something worth noting: Beerus says in chapter 27 that "it's been a few years" since he last fought Vegeta. Meaning that we're 3-5 years out from BoG's timeline, where Videl was visibly pregnant (Pan is only 4 at the EoZ, so this is about 5 years after Buu), which could imply a decent time gap between Zamasu and the ToP. It also means that Goku meeting Uub is only a year or two away, despite Bulma stating she hadn't seen Goku in 5 years at the 26th Budokai. The timeline is compressed as hell.
You've got two choices, either Beerus' arrival happens years after Boo and we're right around EoZ or Beerus arrived only a few months later and Pan's age makes no sense.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:33 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Something worth noting: Beerus says in chapter 27 that "it's been a few years" since he last fought Vegeta. Meaning that we're 3-5 years out from BoG's timeline, where Videl was visibly pregnant (Pan is only 4 at the EoZ, so this is about 5 years after Buu), which could imply a decent time gap between Zamasu and the ToP. It also means that Goku meeting Uub is only a year or two away, despite Bulma stating she hadn't seen Goku in 5 years at the 26th Budokai. The timeline is compressed as hell.
You've got two choices, either Beerus' arrival happens years after Boo and we're right around EoZ or Beerus arrived only a few months later and Pan's age makes no sense.
Pan and Bra's ages have been pretty dang consistent with the original "4 years after the wish to forget Buu" timeline. So has Uub's, considering in that scene we see in the manga, he's visibly a child rather than a baby or toddler, and is doing manual labor.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:42 pm

Btw, how accurate was Vegeta's hissy fit speech this chapter? From what I recall, Viz mighta gone too far in a few places when translating that..
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:33 pm

reecehoward wrote:
1345521 wrote:
reecehoward wrote:That's the issue though. Toyo doesn't have to give them what's used in the anime. He can be creative and give them his own unique powers. It doesn't take much to do that. He didn't even attempt to do so.

In this case, there's no need to compare to the anime, as it's not really necessary to point out the issues in this version of the arc. This arc should be all about spectacle, yet this version has hardly anything of the sort going. That's not good. Damn what the anime did(even if it did get that part right), that's irrelevant for what the manga is not doing. The anime is over and done with, and most fans were satisfied with that version of the arc. This problem is wholly the manga's and many of fans are dissatisfied with it, some of whom could give less of a fuck about the anime and what it did.
Reece Howard, it's been awhile. My name is 4, and I'd like to apologize for staunchily defending this manga. I thought it was going to get better, but somehow it's gotten worse to the point is supar. I still think its better then the garbage anime, but toyotaro dropped the ball legitly in this ToP arc. It started the downfall in chapter 35 when Hit got knocked out for no reason, then conculded its drop-off by 39 (garbage chapter). Facts only.
It's all good, I never took it personally. There's nothing wrong with defending it, but the issue has always been how unwilling the manga fans were to see the flaws, yet hypocritically trash the anime for the very same things.

As I said a few pages ago, I saw this coming ever since the Hit vs Goku fight. People were praising the manga for it's changes based solely on what they didn't like in the anime, rather than if it were good in it's own right. Now here we are, ToP. The anime has been over for a while now and most were pretty satisfied for what they got in that ToP. Everyone is looking at these changes in the manga now as if they are hot garbage. Were's the creativity? Why is 97% of the newcomers "fOdDeR" when he could imagine them to be as strong and interesting as he needs to make interesting scenes? Why is he shoehorning plot points that effectively retcons the fundamentals of combat that the entire series has adhered to for decades? These types of issues were always there, but because many thought that the previous arcs were handled better than in the anime, they gave a pass for the manga. Now Toyo doesn't have that shield, as I've said; most fans were pretty satisfied with the anime ToP for the most part. People are starting to see the issues that were always there...

I must clarify though, that I find no issue with one's enjoyment of the manga. I personally WANT to enjoy it just as much. But for years, when you have fans constantly telling you "You didn't like what the anime did? Check out the MANGA!" or "Manga is BETTER" over and over abd over and OVER, and you decide to go into it with an open mind only to be equally or even more disappointed...it's like what is it that they are seeing or not seeing? Yeah it does some things better, but overall...Leaves a lot to be desired imo. Idk, I just find it fascinating that people still find a way to praise it as if it's the best continuation we could hope for, and put you down if you down if you don't agree. The fact that you, 4, of all people have started to see the issues is telling...
I think that despite your intentions, you do come off as very dismissive of people who enjoy the manga. I didn't even get into super until episode 123 was airing, so it's not like I was ever enjoying the manga solely because I disliked the anime.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
supersaiyanZero
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:10 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:19 pm

This is hilarious. After defending the piss poor anime (even by today's standards in a medium that is rapidly declining) and dealing with how atrocious it was, all the Super apologists have come out of the woodwork to finally vent their frustration with Toriyama and Toei by attacking the manga.

The ToP is a disgustingly bad arc, manga or anime, period. Just deal with it.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:25 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:This is hilarious. After defending the piss poor anime (even by today's standards in a medium that is rapidly declining) and dealing with how atrocious it was, all the Super apologists have come out of the woodwork to finally vent their frustration with Toriyama and Toei by attacking the manga.

The ToP is a disgustingly bad arc, manga or anime, period. Just deal with it.
There's no reason to be so hostile. I actually like the anime ToP arc more than I like the anime FT arc.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

Post Reply