"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:15 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Nothing says it was 5 minutes. Not to mention Potara fusion and metamorese fusion are two different things. If it was such a short time, then it'd be mentioned it was like 5 minutes. All we know from the characters was that it was less than an hour. That's it. I looked at the dialogue. Using episode time is never a good indicator. Somethings are faster or longer in that said indicated time. Need we mention the infamous Goku Freeza battle XD.
It still doesn't matter. We know the reason they defused was the Final Kamemeha. Using a strong attack makes Vegetto go poof. So, Vegetto's useless. They could have gone about it better, but it's a good thing they nerfed him. The question of "why don't they fuse?" should have been on everyone's mind the moment Boo turned to their side and the Dragon Balls were revealed to be able to defuse.
We know it was basically for the same reason as SSJ4 Gogeta. Being so powerful it basically drastically reduced their time. I get that more than just one attack. Vegetto is so broken now he can be shit out whenever now. I don't think it was just because he fired the kamehameha. He was already nerfed from the sense of how irreversible it was supposed to be to being usable whenever. There comes the factor of if Boo can do that trick his other side did, which he possibly could like GT style, and on Vegetto himself potentially. Though even IF I want to believe he was heavily nerfed, then they just made potara, just yet another power up and nothing else. Ruining a special item into generic fusion 2.
Here's a good question, what was even the point of bringing Vegetto back if he was that useless?? Did fans really just want to "see" SSB Vegetto?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:22 pm

TheMikado wrote: Here's a good question, what was even the point of bringing Vegetto back if he was that useless?? Did fans really just want to "see" SSB Vegetto?

To establish his uselessness I suppose. If not for doing that then people would still be asking "why not fuse?"

And I remember the minute the potara became a center focus again, people were hyping Vegetto's return. So I feel like there were quite a few fans who wanted him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:24 pm

TheMikado wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: It still doesn't matter. We know the reason they defused was the Final Kamemeha. Using a strong attack makes Vegetto go poof. So, Vegetto's useless. They could have gone about it better, but it's a good thing they nerfed him. The question of "why don't they fuse?" should have been on everyone's mind the moment Boo turned to their side and the Dragon Balls were revealed to be able to defuse.
We know it was basically for the same reason as SSJ4 Gogeta. Being so powerful it basically drastically reduced their time. I get that more than just one attack. Vegetto is so broken now he can be shit out whenever now. I don't think it was just because he fired the kamehameha. He was already nerfed from the sense of how irreversible it was supposed to be to being usable whenever. There comes the factor of if Boo can do that trick his other side did, which he possibly could like GT style, and on Vegetto himself potentially. Though even IF I want to believe he was heavily nerfed, then they just made potara, just yet another power up and nothing else. Ruining a special item into generic fusion 2.
Here's a good question, what was even the point of bringing Vegetto back if he was that useless?? Did fans really just want to "see" SSB Vegetto?
He was pointless fanservice in my opinion. So much so he literally is on the box art of the final arc's dvd, despite him barely being apart of it. Could have done it without him. Coulda just said something for why Merged Zamasu wasn't a huge boost like Kibitoshin, so he's powerful, but not getting an insane boost. An excuse can be made for that, and then Vegetto isn't needed. I never bought the whole Vegetto weakened him when Merged Zamasu flies out of the Final Kamehameha with Christ symbolism, and smiling after taking the attack head on.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:31 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:and smiling after taking the attack head on.
Well, this doesn't really mean anything. Zamasu was a bit nutty by that point and even Black laughed it off when Vegeta was kicking his ass.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:35 pm

Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:and smiling after taking the attack head on.
Well, this doesn't really mean anything. Zamasu was a bit nutty by that point and even Black laughed it off when Vegeta was kicking his ass.
I don't think him flying out of that attack, barely looking hurt in a christ figure position screams "Ouch I am really hurt right now." Even then Black basically turns things around on Vegeta afterwards with er....weird pointless shit.....If they wanted to portray Zamasu as heavily worn down, they did a real shit job at showing it. Boo looked far more worn down in comparison to get the point across.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:38 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:and smiling after taking the attack head on.
Well, this doesn't really mean anything. Zamasu was a bit nutty by that point and even Black laughed it off when Vegeta was kicking his ass.
I don't think him flying out of that attack, barely looking hurt in a christ figure position screams "Ouch I am really hurt right now." Even then Black basically turns things around on Vegeta afterwards with er....weird pointless shit.....If they wanted to portray Zamasu as heavily worn down, they did a real shit job at showing it. Boo looked far more worn down in comparison to get the point across.
They did imply he was weaker. Vegetto mocks him about not being able to keep up with his speed, and there's that whole Gowasu bullshit speech that came from nowhere about Zamasu's psyche being broken down due to the contradiction between Gods and mortals.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:42 pm

Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Well, this doesn't really mean anything. Zamasu was a bit nutty by that point and even Black laughed it off when Vegeta was kicking his ass.
I don't think him flying out of that attack, barely looking hurt in a christ figure position screams "Ouch I am really hurt right now." Even then Black basically turns things around on Vegeta afterwards with er....weird pointless shit.....If they wanted to portray Zamasu as heavily worn down, they did a real shit job at showing it. Boo looked far more worn down in comparison to get the point across.
They did imply he was weaker. Vegetto mocks him about not being able to keep up with his speed, and there's that whole Gowasu bullshit speech that came from nowhere about Zamasu's psyche being broken down due to the contradiction between Gods and mortals.
Weaker than Vegetto yes. Weakened by all of Vegetto's attacks, I don't see it. He appeared more mentally harmed than physically. Physical wise he looked just fine from the battle. Not overly damaged, nor on the verge of defeat, or anything like that. It's a fair theory I've seen for people to defend Trunks...."Moment" I'll say, but personally I don't see it. Both Omega and Boo looked more damaged and exhausted compared to Zamasu, who seemed weaker than Vegetto, but not exactly looking like he reached the end of his rope.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gog » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:43 pm

Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Well, this doesn't really mean anything. Zamasu was a bit nutty by that point and even Black laughed it off when Vegeta was kicking his ass.
I don't think him flying out of that attack, barely looking hurt in a christ figure position screams "Ouch I am really hurt right now." Even then Black basically turns things around on Vegeta afterwards with er....weird pointless shit.....If they wanted to portray Zamasu as heavily worn down, they did a real shit job at showing it. Boo looked far more worn down in comparison to get the point across.
They did imply he was weaker. Vegetto mocks him about not being able to keep up with his speed, and there's that whole Gowasu bullshit speech that came from nowhere about Zamasu's psyche being broken down due to the contradiction between Gods and mortals.
What was so bad about Gowasu's speech?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:44 pm

Gog wrote:What was so bad about Gowasu's speech?
They tried to paint it as this deep thing and a conclusion to an overarching arc to Zamasu's character but the way he worded it has nothing to do with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gog » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:46 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Gog wrote:What was so bad about Gowasu's speech?
They tried to paint it as this deep thing and a conclusion to an overarching arc to Zamasu's character but the way he worded it has nothing to do with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc.
How would you have worded so that it made sense with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Gog wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Gog wrote:What was so bad about Gowasu's speech?
They tried to paint it as this deep thing and a conclusion to an overarching arc to Zamasu's character but the way he worded it has nothing to do with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc.
How would you have worded so that it made sense with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc?
"Zamasu is batshit insane."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:49 pm

Gog wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Gog wrote:What was so bad about Gowasu's speech?
They tried to paint it as this deep thing and a conclusion to an overarching arc to Zamasu's character but the way he worded it has nothing to do with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc.
How would you have worded so that it made sense with Zamasu's struggles throughout the arc?
I'd remove it because Zamasu never really struggled with anything. He always had his view set to one thing. The speech would have worked fine if they developed Zamasu's descent more, but they almost skipped entirely over it in retrospect. The part Gowasu says about mortals making mistakes and the Gods forgiving them makes sense given what we saw of present Zamasu, but then he says "Why Gods and mortals have similar forms." When the hell did Zamasu ever question himself about that?
mfwlegend3 wrote:"Zamasu is batshit insane."
This works too.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kinisking » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:13 pm

kinisking wrote:
Noah wrote:Wrong thread, mate.
No it's not. It's hypothesising about the manga so it's perfect for this thread. Besides, that thread isn't dedicated to hypotheses. It's more about changing events that have already happened .
Oh like he wasn't doing that, right? :P[/quote]
Technically they haven't happened in the manga yet :P
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kinisking » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:30 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
I don't think him flying out of that attack, barely looking hurt in a christ figure position screams "Ouch I am really hurt right now." Even then Black basically turns things around on Vegeta afterwards with er....weird pointless shit.....If they wanted to portray Zamasu as heavily worn down, they did a real shit job at showing it. Boo looked far more worn down in comparison to get the point across.
They did imply he was weaker. Vegetto mocks him about not being able to keep up with his speed, and there's that whole Gowasu bullshit speech that came from nowhere about Zamasu's psyche being broken down due to the contradiction between Gods and mortals.
Weaker than Vegetto yes. Weakened by all of Vegetto's attacks, I don't see it. He appeared more mentally harmed than physically. Physical wise he looked just fine from the battle. Not overly damaged, nor on the verge of defeat, or anything like that. It's a fair theory I've seen for people to defend Trunks...."Moment" I'll say, but personally I don't see it. Both Omega and Boo looked more damaged and exhausted compared to Zamasu, who seemed weaker than Vegetto, but not exactly looking like he reached the end of his rope.
Vegetto literally says he's about to end it before he defuses implying it was going to take one more hit to wipe out Zamasu.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:35 pm

My prediction is that

1. Goku,Vegeta and Trunks will try to beat him but will get steamrolled.

2. Goku and Vegeta will fuse to become Vegito and will fight Zamasu.

3. Vegito will be winning the fight and just as he's about to finish it he'll defuse.

4. With no other chance of winning and by chance of finding it Goku will summon Zeno.

5. Zeno will kill Zamasu and then destroy the universe but not before the others escape.

It's a more logical ending than the manga. There probably won't be any spirit bomb because the humans are dead, likewise there won't be any cloud Zamasu who'll show up to kill the humans...Because he already did so.

It'd mean Trunks would have gone the whole saga without really doing squat.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:38 pm

kinisking wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: They did imply he was weaker. Vegetto mocks him about not being able to keep up with his speed, and there's that whole Gowasu bullshit speech that came from nowhere about Zamasu's psyche being broken down due to the contradiction between Gods and mortals.
Weaker than Vegetto yes. Weakened by all of Vegetto's attacks, I don't see it. He appeared more mentally harmed than physically. Physical wise he looked just fine from the battle. Not overly damaged, nor on the verge of defeat, or anything like that. It's a fair theory I've seen for people to defend Trunks...."Moment" I'll say, but personally I don't see it. Both Omega and Boo looked more damaged and exhausted compared to Zamasu, who seemed weaker than Vegetto, but not exactly looking like he reached the end of his rope.
Vegetto literally says he's about to end it before he defuses implying it was going to take one more hit to wipe out Zamasu.
Sounded more like to me he was merely done playing around. He uses his biggest attack, Zamasu appears fine, and so he decides to finish things off. Doesn't appear he was weakened, but that he'd take things more seriously. I don't really take christ like imagery to mean incredibly weak. Compare this to both Boo and Omega, who both show they are incredibly worn down and weak, while Zamasu doesn't even look nearly as bad as they were after their bouts. While they literally feel it's over, Zamasu feels just fine and not threatened.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:42 pm

Noah wrote:More like Vegeta held his forearm, mate :|
I can see what you mean, but the part that I'm assuming you think is Vegeta's hand looks more like a continuation of Goku's arm to me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:43 pm

kinisking wrote:Vegetto literally says he's about to end it before he defuses implying it was going to take one more hit to wipe out Zamasu.
Actually, Vegetto says "this'll end it!" before launching the Final Kamehameha. When that failed and Zamasu emerged unscathed, he decided to go for a second attempt with a punch saying "say goodbye!" before ultimately defusing.
Last edited by mfwlegend3 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:44 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
kinisking wrote:Vegetto literally says he's about to end it before he defuses implying it was going to take one more hit to wipe out Zamasu.
Actually, Vegetto says "this'll end it!" before launching the Final Kamehameha. When then that failed and Zamasu emerged unscathed, he decided to go for a second attempt with a punch saying "say goodbye!" before ultimately defusing.
Was about to add that. Vegetto also looked ticked that the Final Kamehameha did not even so much as dent Zamasu all that much, before teleporting to punch him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:05 pm

I'm still expecting for Toyotaro go insane and show us Super Saiyan God Gogeta
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