"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

Another thing is that they might not ever use fusion again and if they do it won't be for a very long time so hopefully they'll do it right this time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Super's final arc ends with another Vegetto fight, this time they find a bullshit loophole in the rule by fusing while in Blue form.

[Pannaliciour]

Something that is bugging me: the purpose of turning ssjg to ssjb over and over again. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Its a nice concept if you do it once, and finishing your opponent in one try (like goku vs hit). But by doing it constantly, Black should have figured this out.

I just can't believe this concept is a stamina-solving strategy. Vegeta as a SSJB from the start is always >>>>> vegeta as a ssjg transforming in to ssjb, multiple times (Stamina-wise). Especially addressing by Whis in the manga that transforming in SSJB multiple time effects your stamina.

[sintzu]

I wouldn't be surprised if Super's final arc ends with another Vegetto fight, this time they find a bullshit loophole in the rule by fusing while in Blue form.

If they separate after an hour then it won't matter which form they'll use.

[Sandubadear]

Something that is bugging me: the purpose of turning ssjg to ssjb over and over again. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Its a nice concept if you do it once, and finishing your opponent in one try (like goku vs hit). But by doing it constantly, Black should have figured this out.

I just can't believe this concept is a stamina-solving strategy. Vegeta as a SSJB from the start is always >>>>> vegeta as a ssjg transforming in to ssjb, multiple times (Stamina-wise). Especially addressing by Whis in the manga that transforming in SSJB multiple time effects your stamina.

Goku says that Vegeta trained, so he can keep transforming quickly and not losing stamina from it. If Vegeta stays on SSB, his stamina will drain quicker than if he stays in SSG and transforms to SSB when he is attacking.

[The gr]

Here are some cool pics from toyoraro [spoiler] [/spoiler]This guy really like vermoud,he use that pic he draw as his avatar for his Twitter, and he use that pic for this month v jump issue

[Lupin879]

The manga has many plot hole.

So I hope they explain, but I do not think they will. The Supreme Kai no longer have healing powers when they are Kaioshin. Zamasu is both Kaioshin both server and maintains both their privileges?

Does not work.

Supreme Kai has never had the instant trasmission but now in the manga he has this power? In Majin Buu saga he teleports but only thanks to Kibith.

In anime Beerus can kill one in every time, but he can not kill Black, because this is acasual thanks to the ring. It's all OK.

In the manga, this is not clear.
Then Goku and Vegeta could travel to another time so if they were killed by Black did not die but their death would create an alternate reality.

In the manga SSB loses power if one turns over again and again. But they do not pass this defect over three years in rosat but Vegeta overcomes the defect in a bit 'of time

[kinisking]

The manga has many plot hole.

So I hope they explain, but I do not think they will. The Supreme Kai no longer have healing powers when they are Kaioshin. Zamasu is both Kaioshin both server and maintains both their privileges?

Does not work.

Supreme Kai has never had the instant trasmission but now in the manga he has this power? In Majin Buu saga he teleports but only thanks to Kibith.

In anime Beerus can kill one in every time, but he can not kill Black, because this is acasual thanks to the ring. It's all OK.

In the manga, this is not clear.
Then Goku and Vegeta could travel to another time so if they were killed by Black did not die but their death would create an alternate reality.

In the manga SSB loses power if one turns over again and again. But they do not pass this defect over three years in rosat but Vegeta overcomes the defect in a bit 'of time

Kaioshin could always teleport, if even says it in the daizenshuu (?).

We never learnt if the servants lose the healing powers if they become Kaioshin. Zamasu is a unique case.

Vegeta had a whole year to train to stabilize SSB. The characters have always had larger gains during times of violence than times of peace.

[Lupin879]

The manga has many plot hole.

So I hope they explain, but I do not think they will. The Supreme Kai no longer have healing powers when they are Kaioshin. Zamasu is both Kaioshin both server and maintains both their privileges?

Does not work.

Supreme Kai has never had the instant trasmission but now in the manga he has this power? In Majin Buu saga he teleports but only thanks to Kibith.

In anime Beerus can kill one in every time, but he can not kill Black, because this is acasual thanks to the ring. It's all OK.

In the manga, this is not clear.
Then Goku and Vegeta could travel to another time so if they were killed by Black did not die but their death would create an alternate reality.

In the manga SSB loses power if one turns over again and again. But they do not pass this defect over three years in rosat but Vegeta overcomes the defect in a bit 'of time

Kaioshin could always teleport, if even says it in the daizenshuu (?).

We never learnt if the servants lose the healing powers if they become Kaioshin. Zamasu is a unique case.

Vegeta had a whole year to train to stabilize SSB. The characters have always had larger gains during times of violence than times of peace.

Gowasu said only before

[Lupin879]

Kaioshin can not teleport only Kibitoshi

[Pannaliciour]

Something that is bugging me: the purpose of turning ssjg to ssjb over and over again. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Its a nice concept if you do it once, and finishing your opponent in one try (like goku vs hit). But by doing it constantly, Black should have figured this out.

I just can't believe this concept is a stamina-solving strategy. Vegeta as a SSJB from the start is always >>>>> vegeta as a ssjg transforming in to ssjb, multiple times (Stamina-wise). Especially addressing by Whis in the manga that transforming in SSJB multiple time effects your stamina.

Goku says that Vegeta trained, so he can keep transforming quickly and not losing stamina from it. If Vegeta stays on SSB, his stamina will drain quicker than if he stays in SSG and transforms to SSB when he is attacking.

So the better question is why not train to master ssjb instead of training to transform from ssjg to ssjb multiple time?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Something that is bugging me: the purpose of turning ssjg to ssjb over and over again. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Its a nice concept if you do it once, and finishing your opponent in one try (like goku vs hit). But by doing it constantly, Black should have figured this out.

I just can't believe this concept is a stamina-solving strategy. Vegeta as a SSJB from the start is always >>>>> vegeta as a ssjg transforming in to ssjb, multiple times (Stamina-wise). Especially addressing by Whis in the manga that transforming in SSJB multiple time effects your stamina.

Goku says that Vegeta trained, so he can keep transforming quickly and not losing stamina from it. If Vegeta stays on SSB, his stamina will drain quicker than if he stays in SSG and transforms to SSB when he is attacking.

So the better question is why not train to master ssjb instead of training to transform from ssjg to ssjb multiple time?

Maybe mastering SSB would've taken too long. Maybe switching back and forth as actually more efficient. Too many unknowns to properly answer.

[Noah]

Here are some cool pics from toyoraro [spoiler][/spoiler]

Could that be Earth from Universe 11?

[batistabus]

1. The Supreme Kai no longer have healing powers when they are Kaioshin. Zamasu is both Kaioshin both server and maintains both their privileges?

2. Supreme Kai has never had the instant trasmission but now in the manga he has this power? In Majin Buu saga he teleports but only thanks to Kibith.

3. In anime Beerus can kill one in every time, but he can not kill Black, because this is acasual thanks to the ring. It's all OK. In the manga, this is not clear.

4. Then Goku and Vegeta could travel to another time so if they were killed by Black did not die but their death would create an alternate reality.

5. In the manga SSB loses power if one turns over again and again. But they do not pass this defect over three years in rosat but Vegeta overcomes the defect in a bit 'of time

1. Zamasu is not an actual Kaioshin, he just took the potara and called himself god after Black killed Gowasu.

2. The kai-kai has been retconned. It is stated in guidebooks, and the anime for Super has this as well. Because this change exists in both the anime and manga (and guidebooks), it's possible that this change was created by Toriyama and there's nothing that the anime/manga could explain.

3. Black doesn't wear the ring in the manga. He is able to stay in the parallel future without it. In the anime, they make it seem like Black should die once they kill the Zamasu from their timeline, but the manga doesn't give this impression.

4. If Goku and Vegeta died in Trunks' timeline, that would not create a parallel world. Zamasu's death created a parallel world because the future version of him had gone to the future, and due to a visit from Trunks, was killed before those events could unfold. The only way Goku and Vegeta dying would create a parallel world would be if someone went back in time to kill them.

5. In the three years, they were simply trying to become stronger. Super Saiyan Blue is something that is unnatural and didn't exist until Goku/Vegeta discovered it, so it's not unreasonable that they might spend 3 years with it but still not master it. When Vegeta went in by himself, he had that previous experience and was working solely on overcoming this weakness.

[Sandubadear]

Kaioshin can not teleport only Kibitoshi

Shin can teleport, he teleports Goku and Whis to Zen'os planet at the beginning of the Trunks arc.

2. Supreme Kai has never had the instant trasmission but now in the manga he has this power? In Majin Buu saga he teleports but only thanks to Kibith.

2. The kai-kai has been retconned. It is stated in guidebooks, and the anime for Super has this as well. Because this change exists in both the anime and manga (and guidebooks), it's possible that this change was created by Toriyama and there's nothing that the anime/manga could explain.

In the DBZ anime, when Kibito and Shin found Gohan, Shin is the one to say "Kai-Kai". There's no way to tell in the manga though. So it's nothing new.

[Ikazvyr]

There's no retcon at all. Shin had this ability since the beginning. He's the one teleporting Gohan to Kaiohshin's Realm. Also, it's not the Teleport technique used by Goku (Shunkan Idō, called Instant Transmission in the dub), since his one needs someone's ki to work, but Kai Kai (Instantaneous Movement in the dub), an technique where the user can go anywhere. Both Shin and Kibito have this ability, and not only Kibito. Kibitoshin know this movement not because only Kibito knows it (this would work too), but because both know it

In Super's anime, he uses this technique to bring Goku to Zenoh's place, and the last episode shows that every Kaiohshin can use it too

[Jinzoningen MULE]

There's no retcon at all. Shin had this ability since the beginning. He's the one teleporting Gohan to Kaiohshin's Realm.

But he didn't. Kibito was the one who moved them to and from the Kaioshin Realm. The only time Shin ever had the ability pre-Super was when merged with Kibito. This is easily verifiable. If you really want to stretch, you could say that he just never used it cause reasons (even though I can think of at least once where it would've been real useful), but it's just that, a stretch.

[dbzfan7]

There's no retcon at all. Shin had this ability since the beginning. He's the one teleporting Gohan to Kaiohshin's Realm.

But he didn't. Kibito was the one who moved them to and from the Kaioshin Realm. The only time Shin ever had the ability pre-Super was when merged with Kibito. This is easily verifiable. If you really want to stretch, you could say that he just never used it cause reasons (even though I can think of at least once where it would've been real useful), but it's just that, a stretch.

All the other Kaioshin are seen doing it I believe when leaving the arena.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

There's no retcon at all. Shin had this ability since the beginning. He's the one teleporting Gohan to Kaiohshin's Realm.

But he didn't. Kibito was the one who moved them to and from the Kaioshin Realm. The only time Shin ever had the ability pre-Super was when merged with Kibito. This is easily verifiable. If you really want to stretch, you could say that he just never used it cause reasons (even though I can think of at least once where it would've been real useful), but it's just that, a stretch.

All the other Kaioshin are seen doing it I believe when leaving the arena.

I'm talking pre-Super, in regards to whether or not Kaioshin having the ability now is a retcon. Obviously, the Kaioshin can Kai-Kai now, but it wasn't always that way.

[Ikazvyr]

There's no retcon at all. Shin had this ability since the beginning. He's the one teleporting Gohan to Kaiohshin's Realm.

But he didn't. Kibito was the one who moved them to and from the Kaioshin Realm. The only time Shin ever had the ability pre-Super was when merged with Kibito. This is easily verifiable. If you really want to stretch, you could say that he just never used it cause reasons (even though I can think of at least once where it would've been real useful), but it's just that, a stretch.

I don't know how it is in american dubs since I'm brazilian, but in both japanese and brazilian dub is Shin who yells "Kai Kai". I'm even rewatching DBKai with my girlfriend and saw this episode yesterday. You could say that in manga is difficult to know who's using, but is pretty clear in the anime that's Shin's voice

EDIT: Had to check my manga because apparently Kibitoshin says specifically that's Kibito's technique. I need to check raw, but I'm pretty sure this line is translated correctly... Still, in anime, it's Shin's voice. Had to confirm that too. Man, this discussion is pretty confusing

EDIT 2: Dragon Ball manga chapter 470: it's unclear who uses Kai Kai
Dragon Ball Z episode 241 and Dragon Ball Kai episode 123: clearly Shin's voice
...Anime mistake? Also, Super's manga is apparently being written following the anime in this Arc, and we all know how is Toei. But hey, that's Toyotaro's mistake as well! Thank you guys for pointing this, and sorry for me defending this mistake
But damn, I believed my whole life Shin had this ability as well...

[Freeza9000]

Each and every one of Mai's shocked facial expressions in the manga gets me on the fucking floor.