"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:08 pm

Noah wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:I can't believe Goku would waste a Super DB wish on that when he could gather the Earth or Namek sets in an instant.
I don't think Goku really cares.
So you would think Goku cares more about giving 17 a boat than bringing back those who were erased? Wow
Yes, everyone, Goku especially, has been annoyingly portrayed as apathetic in regards to the consequences of the tournament.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Eventually he's going to have to screw 17 over once he decides he wants to wish the other universes back. Also, he's likely going to make the same promise when he meets Freeza as well.
I don't think he cares enough to wish the universes back and the deal with Freeza is that he's the one that has to wish himself back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:09 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Noah wrote:
Doctor. wrote: I don't think Goku really cares.
So you would think Goku cares more about giving 17 a boat than bringing back those who were erased? Wow
Yes, everyone, Goku especially, has been annoyingly portrayed as apathetic in regards to the consequences of the tournament.
Goku did imply he'd be wishing the others back when he told Caulifla and Kale they'd do this again sometime and obviously that wouldn't be possible if they don't exist.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:15 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Goku did imply he'd be wishing the others back when he told Caulifla and Kale they'd do this again sometime and obviously that wouldn't be possible if they don't exist.
Honestly just think that's Toei's poor writing at play. He's been saying throughout the tournament he doesn't really have a wish. He offered his wish to #17, then says to Brianne he'll give it to Gohan or Chi-Chi. Even if he's implying he'll wish Caulifla and Kale back to life, that's the first instance of him hinting at wishing anyone back and it's a selfish one; he'll wish U6 back out of a desire to fight them again, not because he thinks the conditions of the tournament are ruthless and unjust.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:18 pm

Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Goku did imply he'd be wishing the others back when he told Caulifla and Kale they'd do this again sometime and obviously that wouldn't be possible if they don't exist.
Honestly just think that's Toei's poor writing at play. He's been saying throughout the tournament he doesn't really have a wish. He offered his wish to #17, then says to Brianne he'll give it to Gohan or Chi-Chi. Even if he's implying he'll wish Caulifla and Kale back to life, that's the first instance of him hinting at wishing anyone back and it's a selfish one; he'll wish U6 back out of a desire to fight them again, not because he thinks the conditions of the tournament are ruthless and unjust.
Maybe Goku really has become evil and he's telling everyone what they want to hear.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:22 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: But even after that Kuririn says that Freeza probably would have betrayed them if Gohan didn't realize his plan which means that Freeza could have beaten Gohan for real if he wanted.
No, it doesn't. It just means that Freeza could have went full turncoat. That doesn't equate to Freeza being stronger than Gohan. Whether Freeza could have beaten Gohan at full power is left ambiguous.
I really doubt Freeza would foolishly get himself killed yet again, he must have been able to win if he was willing to try it.
We'll never truly know.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:23 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Maybe Goku really has become evil and he's telling everyone what they want to hear.
Would honestly be a lot more interesting than whatever the fuck Toei is doing with him now. They introduced the plot point that Goku's reckless battle boner is responsible for the universe's destruction and that they all see him as a hazard at best and evil scumbag at worst because of it, only to forget it exists a few episodes later. And Toyotaro introduced it only to shut it down like 3 pages later by having characters state he's responsible for their chance of survival, just to make sure we know he "dindu nuffin, Gokuu-san can do no wrong and you should pray to him every night."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:25 pm

Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Maybe Goku really has become evil and he's telling everyone what they want to hear.
Would honestly be a lot more interesting than whatever the fuck Toei is doing with him now. They introduced the plot point that Goku's reckless battle boner is responsible for the universe's destruction and that they all see him as a hazard at best and evil scumbag at worst because of it, only to forget it exists a few episodes later. And Toyotaro introduced it only to shut it down like 3 pages later by having characters state he's responsible for their chance of survival, just to make sure we know he "dindu nuffin, Gokuu-san can do no wrong and you should pray to him every night."
As much as people hate the idea of evil Goku for being cliche, it'd definitely be the most interesting Super has been. If Goku actually does turn out to be evil in this tournament it would be a total shock and no one would be able to predict what happens next.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:28 pm

Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Maybe Goku really has become evil and he's telling everyone what they want to hear.
Would honestly be a lot more interesting than whatever the fuck Toei is doing with him now. They introduced the plot point that Goku's reckless battle boner is responsible for the universe's destruction and that they all see him as a hazard at best and evil scumbag at worst because of it, only to forget it exists a few episodes later. And Toyotaro introduced it only to shut it down like 3 pages later by having characters state he's responsible for their chance of survival, just to make sure we know he "dindu nuffin, Gokuu-san can do no wrong and you should pray to him every night."
They didn't 'forget' since the universes still hate him and why everyone keeps attacking U7. Even in the manga, people are miffed at Goku for starting the tournament and certainly not saying you pray to him.
Last edited by HeroR on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:30 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Maybe Goku really has become evil and he's telling everyone what they want to hear.
Would honestly be a lot more interesting than whatever the fuck Toei is doing with him now. They introduced the plot point that Goku's reckless battle boner is responsible for the universe's destruction and that they all see him as a hazard at best and evil scumbag at worst because of it, only to forget it exists a few episodes later. And Toyotaro introduced it only to shut it down like 3 pages later by having characters state he's responsible for their chance of survival, just to make sure we know he "dindu nuffin, Gokuu-san can do no wrong and you should pray to him every night."
As much as people hate the idea of evil Goku for being cliche, it'd definitely be the most interesting Super has been. If Goku actually does turn out to be evil in this tournament it would be a total shock and no one would be able to predict what happens next.
They don't even need to make him evil. Just acknowledge that his reckless behavior is a danger to the universe and place him in an antagonist's position and force him to learn with his mistakes; that would already be the most interesting thing they've done with the character in decades. That's how I thought his character arc seemed to be going this tournament, and it's what I thought the "Something terrible happens!" promotion about UI seemed to be hinting at, but it seems like it was all pointless since the plot point was completely dropped in the anime and it's been whitewashed in the manga.
HeroR wrote:They didn't 'forget' since the universes still hate him and why everyone keeps attacking U7.
They don't hate him. The last characters, besides Toppo, who hated him, U9, were erased two episodes into the tournament. The other characters target U7 because.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:33 pm

Doctor. wrote: They don't even need to make him evil. Just acknowledge that his reckless behavior is a danger to the universe and place him in an antagonist's position and force him to learn with his mistakes; that would already be the most interesting thing they've done with the character in decades. That's how I thought his character arc seemed to be going this tournament, and it's what I thought the "Something terrible happens!" promotion about UI seemed to be hinting at, but it seems like it was all pointless since the plot point was completely dropped in the anime and it's been whitewashed in the manga.
What's strange about is that manga jiren would have been more suited if they continued the evil goku plot line sadly like you mentioned is been forgotten in the anime and whitewashed in the manga.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:34 pm

Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Would honestly be a lot more interesting than whatever the fuck Toei is doing with him now. They introduced the plot point that Goku's reckless battle boner is responsible for the universe's destruction and that they all see him as a hazard at best and evil scumbag at worst because of it, only to forget it exists a few episodes later. And Toyotaro introduced it only to shut it down like 3 pages later by having characters state he's responsible for their chance of survival, just to make sure we know he "dindu nuffin, Gokuu-san can do no wrong and you should pray to him every night."
As much as people hate the idea of evil Goku for being cliche, it'd definitely be the most interesting Super has been. If Goku actually does turn out to be evil in this tournament it would be a total shock and no one would be able to predict what happens next.
They don't even need to make him evil. Just acknowledge that his reckless behavior is a danger to the universe and place him in an antagonist's position and force him to learn with his mistakes; that would already be the most interesting thing they've done with the character in decades. That's how I thought his character arc seemed to be going this tournament, and it's what I thought the "Something terrible happens!" promotion about UI seemed to be hinting at, but it seems like it was all pointless since the plot point was completely dropped in the anime and it's been whitewashed in the manga.
HeroR wrote:They didn't 'forget' since the universes still hate him and why everyone keeps attacking U7.
They don't hate him. The last characters, besides Toppo, who hated him, U9, were erased two episodes into the tournament. The other characters target U7 because.
Yeah, the universes do hate him and they expressed they're dislike towards Goku and U7 by extension during their god meeting. Only U2 Goddess of Destruction showed any positive feelings towards Goku, even when Vados pointed out that they owed Goku.

The plot point wasn't dropped, it just didn't go in the direction you thought it would.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:37 pm

HeroR wrote:Yeah, the universes do hate him and they expressed they're dislike towards Goku during their god meeting.
Which was over 20 episodes ago, before the tournament even began. Dropped, like I said.
HeroR wrote:The plot point wasn't dropped, it just didn't go in the direction you thought it would.
No, considering that nobody really acknowledges Goku's fault in the tournament anymore, that the characters aren't expressing the hate they should be feeling in regards to Goku and that Goku feels a grand total of 0 guilt for what's happening leads me to believe that, yes, it's been dropped.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:41 pm

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:Yeah, the universes do hate him and they expressed they're dislike towards Goku during their god meeting.
Which was over 20 episodes ago, before the tournament even began. Dropped, like I said.
HeroR wrote:The plot point wasn't dropped, it just didn't go in the direction you thought it would.
No, considering that nobody really acknowledges Goku's fault in the tournament anymore, that the characters aren't expressing the hate they should be feeling in regards to Goku and that Goku feels a grand total of 0 guilt for what's happening leads me to believe that, yes, it's been dropped.
But it wasn't dropped. It just isn't pushed all the time, like do we really need reminder after this was smacked into our faces early on, but the effects are still there since everyone keep targeting U7. And Goku wouldn't be feeling guilt even if people expression their dislike towards him, he certainly didn't before when he was called everything but the devil to his face. Why would that suddenly change now?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:46 pm

HeroR wrote:But it wasn't dropped. It just isn't pushed all the time, like do we really need reminder after this was smacked into our faces early on, but the effects are still there since everyone keep targeting U7. And Goku wouldn't be feeling guilt even if people expression their dislike towards him, he certainly didn't before when he was called everything but the devil to his face. Why would that suddenly change now?
Even if Goku doesn't feel guilty because of millions dying, then he should feel guilty after his friends call him out on his bullshit... which they aren't doing but they should. If it wasn't dropped, it's been terribly handled to the point it feels like it's been dropped. It doesn't change much.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:49 pm

Doctor. wrote: Even if Goku doesn't feel guilty because of millions dying, then he should feel guilty after his friends call him out on his bullshit... which they aren't doing but they should. If it wasn't dropped, it's been terribly handled to the point it feels like it's been dropped. It doesn't change much.
It just isn't as forefront, but it certainly not dropped since Goku's attitude is the reason why the other universes want U7's heads and keep attacking them over going after other universes.

Why would his friends care about other universes, especially when their necks are on the chopping blocks?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:51 pm

HeroR wrote:Why would his friends care about other universes, especially when their necks are on the chopping blocks?
Because, like any normal human being, you care when billions of people are killed unfairly due to the direct and indirect actions of your friend? I know Vegeta and Freeza are on the team, but when the rest of your team consists of people like Gohan, Tenshinhan, Roshi and Kuririn, you shouldn't be asking this question.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:56 pm

Doctor. wrote: Because, like any normal human being, you care when billions of people are killed unfairly due to the direct and indirect actions of your friend? I know Vegeta and Freeza are on the team, but when the rest of your team consists of people like Gohan, Tenshinhan, Roshi and Kuririn, you shouldn't be asking this question.
Most 'normal' people would care about saving their asses first and then have survival guilt afterwards, not before. U7 is in danger of being erased, they don't have time to worry about the other universes being on the chopping block, especially when those other universes have no problem wiping you from the face of the Earth. And Goku's actions indirectly saved them, so blaming him for given you a remote chance to save your butt comes off as being stupid.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:57 pm

There's isn't much to speak about this chapter, it was extremely similar to the anime episodes.

One interesting thing is how Toyotarõ basically spoiled the tournament with the Oob scene. Dende says Goku has to win and points at Oob. Not that it's any surprise, the end of the manga has been floating above Super like a black cloud but this is literally pointing towards it.
I think Toyotarõ is telling us what's coming next; next not eventually.

#17 is basically the same as his anime version. Seems like Mr.Toriyama almost completely wrote this part.

What else? Oh, #17 power is much clearer here, in the realm of SSJ3. Yamcha's joke is much, much better than the anime. There's it's was just cruel.

I'm actually intrigued about Gohan he's been almost completely ignored in the manga. One entire chapter dedicated to him would be great.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:59 pm

LightBing wrote:There's isn't much to speak about this chapter, it was extremely similar to the anime episodes.

One interesting thing is how Toyotarõ basically spoiled the tournament with the Oob scene. Dende says Goku has to win and points at Oob. Not that it's any surprise, the end of the manga has been floating above Super like a black cloud but this is literally pointing towards it.
I think Toyotarõ is telling us what's coming next; next not eventually.

#17 is basically the same as his anime version. Seems like Mr.Toriyama almost completely wrote this part.

What else? Oh, #17 power is much clearer here, in the realm of SSJ3. Yamcha's joke is much, much better than the anime. There's it's was just cruel.

I'm actually intrigued about Gohan he's been almost completely ignored in the manga. One entire chapter dedicated to him would be great.
17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:01 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:17 barely even fought SSJ3 Goku, you can hardly conclude they're on the same level.
He's stronger, if anything. Goku pussied out once he saw #17's energy sphere.

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