"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[shadowfox87]

Read the entire chapter and I have to say it was fantastic! I don't want to spoil so I'll use a spoiler tag for what I thought:

[spoiler]While Hit indeed got eliminated, he totally got his moment! Hit was the one to save Goku from ring out! Goku powered down from SSB to base to conserve energy. Hit used his time cage (Tokizurashi) which was better depicted here as it slowed down Jiren's movements rather than freeze him like it showed in the anime. Hit got a lot of good strikes to Jiren and almost ringed out Jiren as well until Jiren caught Hit's punch and then just threw him out with another punch. Dyspo's speed was also shown here where Goku in SSJ2 could not keep up but it was impressive that Goku in SSJ2 was handling Dyspo and Toppo alone. He really is being smart and conserving his stamina.[/spoiler]

[Hawk9211]

Chapter has kinda lousy art probably because he went on 5 days tour to germany.

[jeffbr92]

So Hit managed to land a kick on Jiren and is almost ringing out him, I though he was going to be humiliated on this chapter. I'm quite surprised.

Just remember that Jiren is nowhere near full power.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

[spoiler]... it was impressive that Goku in SSJ2 was handling Dyspo and Toppo alone. He really is being smart and conserving his stamina.[/spoiler]

How? Isn't Toppo supposed to be equal with Blue?

[ToshioWrites]

Read the entire chapter and I have to say it was fantastic! I don't want to spoil so I'll use a spoiler tag for what I thought:

[spoiler]While Hit indeed got eliminated, he totally got his moment! Hit was the one to save Goku from ring out! Goku powered down from SSB to base to conserve energy. Hit used his time cage (Tokizurashi) which was better depicted here as it slowed down Jiren's movements rather than freeze him like it showed in the anime. Hit got a lot of good strikes to Jiren and almost ringed out Jiren as well until Jiren caught Hit's punch and then just threw him out with another punch. Dyspo's speed was also shown here where Goku in SSJ2 could not keep up but it was impressive that Goku in SSJ2 was handling Dyspo and Toppo alone. He really is being smart and conserving his stamina.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]i don’t think SSJ2 Goku handling Toppo and Dyspo at all. He had no chance vs Dyspo and Toppo just pummeled him, he had to go blue to get Toppo off of him, not to mention that it wouldn’t make sense for SSJ2 Goku to have any chance vs Toppo anyways since Toppo no sold SSJ3 Goku at exhibition match while not being serious[/spoiler]

[namekiansaiyan]

So Hit managed to land a kick on Jiren and is almost ringing out him, I though he was going to be humiliated on this chapter. I'm quite surprised.

Just remember that Jiren is nowhere near full power.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

To me that means he got humiliated.

[shadowfox87]

[spoiler]i don’t think SSJ2 Goku handling Toppo and Dyspo at all. He had no chance vs Dyspo and Toppo just pummeled him, he had to go blue to get Toppo off of him, not to mention that it wouldn’t make sense for SSJ2 Goku to have any chance vs Toppo anyways since Toppo no sold SSJ3 Goku at exhibition match while not being serious[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Yes, perhaps what I meant by "handling" was that he was taking on two opponents in a form less than SSB and "surviving". He would have eventually needed to go SSB to beat them though.[/spoiler]

[CriticalThinker]

[spoiler]Well damn my guess about this chapter being focused on Roshi and the saiyan girl duo was pretty wrong. Surprised that we're getting Goku vs Jiren so soon I wasn't expecting it for another few chapters at least. The fight between Hit and Jiren wasn't half bad and I liked the team up with Goku. Not a big fan of when Hit took off his jacket/skirt thing because he looks odd to me without it. Though I'm guessing it's like weighted clothing and that's why he took it off. Also nice to see some Dyspo and Toppo action as well even if it was brief. Chapter was alright my only real issue is that the art at some points in the chapter looked wonky like when Hit kicked Jiren.[/spoiler]

[Chuquita]

[spoiler]I do appreciate the fast pace in the manga version. This story works so much better in manga form than it does animated if only for logistics. It makes me wish they'd found some better way to approach the material in the anime version.

That said I'm still not big on the ToP itself. It may have beautiful animation at times on the TV version and the manga version may have much better quick pacing, but the story still isn't for me for the most part. It's not physical book purchase level enjoyable, imo. I'll follow along on Viz's site, but I'm done with volume purchases until we get to the next arc or at least to the Ultra Instinct stuff at the end. I don't need a complete set.

I'm surprised Hit's coat is in fact a skirt kilt of some kind, but that's good because it sets him more apart from Jotaro.[/spoiler]

[OLKv3]

[spoiler]Toppo and Dyspo were kicking SS2 Goku's ass. Dyspo was mocking him, then Toppo literally punched him into the ground
But it lead to that cool page of Goku turning Blue[/spoiler]

[Omniboy]

So Hit managed to land a kick on Jiren and is almost ringing out him, I though he was going to be humiliated on this chapter. I'm quite surprised.

Just remember that Jiren is nowhere near full power.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

[spoiler]... it was impressive that Goku in SSJ2 was handling Dyspo and Toppo alone. He really is being smart and conserving his stamina.[/spoiler]

How? Isn't Toppo supposed to be equal with Blue?

Actually Toppo, like Goku and Vegeta, can activate his god ki to get stronger and be on par with them in their god forms.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]


He just does not make any physical changes and likely wasn't using it this chapter when he fought Goku.

[Doctor.]

There's only one moment when Black was stronger, and that was more because Blue's power leakage

This is wrong. SS Black defeated SSB Vegeta after being healed by Zamasu, and even after Vegeta eats a senzu (where he should be at 100% power), him and SS Black are evenly matched. It stands to reason that SSR Black would be much more powerful. If you want to say that Black and Zamasu were more dominating in the anime, fine, I'll agree, but Black and Zamasu definitely were portrayed as a powerful threat at one point in the manga. They're treated as threats in both versions.

In the "final" fight (before they fuse) again Vegeta is making fun of him and not once taking the fight seriously ("salty, Mr. Rose?", "i'll tell you if you're a good boy", etc.).

I would advise against using Mangastream's translation.

Nevertheless, yes, that is the case, but that's just how Vegeta treats his opponents. It was the same way with the Ginyus and Cell. There's nothing self-aware about it.

Fused Zamasu wants to destroy everything that isn't him ("I'm the only intelligence that needs to exist!" and "I'll wipe you out along with the galaxy...").

That was always Zamasu's goal. He wanted to kill the mortals AND the gods because he was the only one who fit his distorted sense of justice. A case could be made for animals and plant life, but in the anime, merged Zamasu ended up causing hurricanes and earthquakes, and when he fused with the universe he destroyed the Earth's surface. So this isn't something exclusive to manga Zamasu; both versions were like this.

Zamasu takes his own ideals seriously in both versions. That's not the point here. The point is that the other characters and the show itself make it clear that Zamasu's ideals are joke in the anime, whilst they treat Zamasu with some seriousness in the manga.

Even against Fused Zamasu Goku and Vegeta are taking turns against him instead of working together, and is treated as a game more than anything else.

They did the same thing against Cell and Kid Boo and it doesn't mean they didn't take them seriously.

So I think you might have it backwards, because the manga is where the two villains are weak (because they never actually get stronger than the heroes), whiny (Black loses his cool over every little thing, like them being in the future, Vegeta smiling, etc.), and never taken seriously (again, Vegeta mocking Black during both fights and never actually having to struggle except when Blue drains his stamina).

I didn't claim that Black and Zamasu were weak and whiny in the anime. I claimed they weren't taken seriously. Vegeta mocks everyone weaker than him, so that's not really an example you can use. In the anime, even characters who wouldn't normally trash-talk poke fun at Black and Zamasu. Black's flamboyant elitism and masochism are both mocked by Goku on separate occasions, merged Zamasu cries 'for the world' as I previously pointed out (which is in itself ridiculous) and gets mocked by Vegetto for it, Zamasu gets punched in the middle of a speech twice (by Goku and Vegetto).

Even in the way certain plot points are handled, it shows self-awareness. The scene where Black tries to kill Gowasu, for instance. In the anime, the mood is immediately light-hearted because there's a gag where Gowasu confuses the Zamasus, then says that he's ashamed of him and says he'll witness the end of his 'foolish student'. Even Gowasu barely takes Zamasu seriously. When Black attacks Gowasu, he's immediately saved by Goku and Vegeta. In the manga, the scene has a serious tone. Toyotaro tries to establish some tension and make us wonder whether Black will change his mind, when we already know he won't. Then when Black attacks Gowasu, we're left wondering whether Gowasu will really die or not. That's taking the scene seriously (and, by extension, the villains). The anime didn't.

Another example: just before they fuse. In the anime: Black calls Zamasu pathetic and they fuse immediately with no rebuttal from Zamasu. In the manga: Goku tries to seed some doubt in Zamasu's mind and they start quarreling once Black calls him pathetic. Again, which medium is taking the characters seriously and which medium recognizes that they're shallow and ridiculous?

Even in the way the characters are presented. Black is brutal in the manga and quick to lose his temper (against Vegeta, even against Trunks). This has the opposite effect of what you say and actually makes us treat him seriously, because his frustration is real. Whereas in the anime, Black never loses his composure, he just laughs it off. If the character treats the situation with cheerfully, so will the audience. When he pulls a scythe out of his ass (by cutting himself and laughing crazily all the while - you can't tell me that's not intentional) and opens up a hole in space, he says he doesn't know what or how he did it. When Zamasu is making his speech about how powerful and beautiful they are, Goku punches him in the face. When Trunks shows up to save Goku and Vegeta against merged Zamasu, Zamasu's reaction is exaggerated and he vocalizes what the audience has felt this entire time: "You again, Trunks?" The entire arc, to me, screams: "We know how ridiculous these characters are, so we're gonna have fun."

I won't deny that the subtext is there in both versions: Zamasu's ideals are black-and-white and ridiculous. The anime is just more overt and self-aware in mocking Zamasu for it while the manga mostly plays it straight. Are there times where the anime tries to play it straight? Sure, but there's only much you can do with Toriyama's outline. I'm not saying one version is inherently better than the other (because I think they're both bad), I'm pointing out the differences; it's disingenuous of TKA to say the anime treats Zamasu's ideals seriously when it's literally the other way around.

[ToshioWrites]

Just remember that Jiren is nowhere near full power.[/ quote]

Thanks for stating the obvious.



How? Isn't Toppo supposed to be equal with Blue?

Actually Toppo, like Goku and Vegeta, can activate his god ki to get stronger and be on par with them in their god forms.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]


He just does not make any physical changes and likely wasn't using it this chapter when he fought Goku.

[spoiler]Toppo destroys SSJ2 Goku in the chapter, I was confused when I heard the leaks but Goku has to go blue to get Toppo off of him[/spoiler]

[sintzu]

I can't understand what's going on but it seems like Hit at least went on on a bang. I would've liked to see him get a major win against someone but I guess it's better than nothing. I know it's still early to fully say as Modern DB still isn't over but so far he's the most wasted out of the new characters. I really hope he gets to fully shine if we ever go to U6.

[Omniboy]

Actually Toppo, like Goku and Vegeta, can activate his god ki to get stronger and be on par with them in their god forms.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]


He just does not make any physical changes and likely wasn't using it this chapter when he fought Goku.

[spoiler]Toppo destroys SSJ2 Goku in the chapter, I was confused when I heard the leaks but Goku has to go blue to get Toppo off of him[/spoiler]

Oh. I didn't get that far in the leaks. So he has to force himself to use blue. Then Toppo was probably in his god state.

[ToshioWrites]

[spoiler]Toppo destroys SSJ2 Goku in the chapter, I was confused when I heard the leaks but Goku has to go blue to get Toppo off of him[/spoiler]

Oh. I didn't get that far in the leaks. So he has to force himself to use blue. Then Toppo was probably in his god state.

What happens is Toppo is pummeling SSJ2 Goku , Goku sees that Hit is in trouble vs jiren so he goes blue to break free from Toppo and then immediately goes to help Hit. His fight with Toppo and Dyspo ended right there.

I think he went blue because he had to fight Jiren and because any form below ssg couldn’t take Toppo even without god ki. SSJ3 Goku got completely no sold by a non god ki using Toppo at exhibition match

[Omniboy]

[spoiler]Toppo destroys SSJ2 Goku in the chapter, I was confused when I heard the leaks but Goku has to go blue to get Toppo off of him[/spoiler]

Oh. I didn't get that far in the leaks. So he has to force himself to use blue. Then Toppo was probably in his god state.

What happens is Toppo is pummeling SSJ2 Goku , Goku sees that Hit is in trouble vs jiren so he goes blue to break free from Toppo and then immediately goes to help Hit. His fight with Toppo and Dyspo ended right there.

I think he went blue because he had to fight Jiren and because any form below ssg couldn’t take Toppo even without god ki. SSJ3 Goku got completely no sold by a non god ki using Toppo at exhibition match

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

[BanterTheGreat]

Chapter seems alright, art a bit dissapointing but that is understandable if you are gone for 5 days.

I really like that hit was doing so well, even if jiren was holding back it looked pretty cool. Especially the time slowdown attack.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah the new time cage thing or whatever in this chapter was much better handled here than in the anime. It's more practical, and it doesn't require a really bad plan that was gonna fail whether Jiren could get out or not. The chapter was pretty great. I like how Dyspo fucks with Goku for not taking things seriously, and he and Toppo utterly wreck him for it. I also like so far they're portraying stamina here like it means something. Hopefully they don't have Blue be used all the time and instead when it's needed.

[Kanassa]

Hit without his skirt looks cool
Hit getting knocked out is fucking hilarious

The art is looking a bit off today

[sintzu]

The art is looking a bit off today

Maybe he's been working on the next chapter alongside it as it'll be the first main fight in the arc.