"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

Goku and Gohan just raised their base power level so high which in turn raised their Super Saiyan power level high enough to be a match for Cell.

Is there actually any proof of this? I don't believe there is.

It's speculation. Nothing in the manga says that, it's honestly contradictorish to what happened in the arc. But I won't elaborate on it here. A guide might have said something about it, I don't know.

[Basako]

Also, since Super Saiyan Rose is basically Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, why didn't Black have half of these problems? He never complained about his form being so flawed that he can't maintain full power.

SSR is the version of SSB in a god, it was stated in the manga. But things work differently, starting from the colour of the hair, to other things like the more effective Zenkai boosts that leaded him to have a more powerful Base than SS2 Trunks or a more powerful SS than SSB Vegeta.

He may not have the same flaws, but it's possible that he has them too, we just haven't seen enough. I think we have seen him transformation one or two times and he had Zamasu to cure him before he could realize about any flaw to complain.

Goku and Gohan just raised their base power level so high which in turn raised their Super Saiyan power level high enough to be a match for Cell.

Is there actually any proof of this? I don't believe there is.

It's speculation. Nothing in the manga says that, it's honestly contradictorish to what happened in the arc. But I won't elaborate on it here. A guide might have said something about it, I don't know.

I think a guide gave some very specific numbers for the multipliers of the SS transformations as static values and same for everyone, implying the only thing that varies is the base level. It was never stated in universe or by Toriyama, so I don't consider those ideas canon neither to the manga nor the anime, they make the SS power scaling very tight.

[omaro34]

I enjoy the Manga and appreciate Toyotaro's excellent work, but I have a problem with the Manga. While I appreciate his efforts to make his story unique and different from the Anime, I feel that many of his plots are created without taking into consideration that it contradicts the established Dragonball plot points that we as fans are so accustomed to and everyone universally agrees upon.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I enjoy the Manga and appreciate Toyotaro's excellent work, but I have a problem with the Manga. While I appreciate his efforts to make his story unique and different from the Anime, I feel that many of his plot are created without taking into consideration that it contradicts the established Dragonball plot points that we as fans are so accustomed to and everyone universally agrees upon.

It rarely does contradict the original series, and every time I can think of that it has, it's contradicting another contradiction, such is the case with the time machine link. As for contradicted the fans' preconceived notions, so what? Preconceptions are worthless in the face of actual content.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I don't think it's that simple.

Goku's new power is already destroying his body and takes a toll on him. Vegeta's solution isn't anywhere near as dangerous. What's happening, in essence, is Goku's solution gives him more power, but Vegeta's solution is more sustainable.

I also agree with you. I think we could say that Goku's solution gives more power, while Vegeta's solution is less risky. But it seems that this "dominated SSB" can be improved afterwards, without risk (similar to the That Goku uses the Kaioken now).
After all, this was the first time Goku had used this form

Goku is only stronger now because he thought of a different possibility of dominating SSB.

Is the same thing in the Saga Cell. Goku found a better solution to get stronger by dominating SSJ.

Vegeta preferred to focus on second and third grade SSJ forms.
Goku had better results.

But in this case Vegeta's strategy was helpful and clever, but Goku again found a better way to dominate SSB,But Vegeta can also dominate the SSB as Goku

You are right. Vegeta even states that he can't use Blue's full power constantly "yet."
I was wondering wouldn't it be cool if Vegeta mastered the reacting without thinking skill instead of the Blue power?
Remember Whis was talking to Goku and Vegeta about that, something Beerus himself didn't even master.

But Goku doesn't get stronger from mastering SSJ. "Mastered" Super Saiyan is no different than regular Super Saiyan in terms of the power it grants the user. It's still the same standard 50x increase instead of something greater like ASSJ( Grade 2) or USSJ (Grade 3). However, in addition to the obvious benefits of minimizing the energy drain and incurring less stamina issues to make the form very easy to use in battle, being able to remain within the form for extended periods of time grants a huge benefit to training. Hell, one of the Super Exciting Guide books actually points this out and credits it as a huge factor in Goku's power growth while he was in the Room of Spirit and Time. Goku and Gohan just raised their base power level so high which in turn raised their Super Saiyan power level high enough to be a match for Cell.

And there's nothing to say Vegeta has never been able to fight at full power for SSJB, because he can but only for the "short while" that the form grant you have it if you don't master SSJB. The major inconsistency is that you can fight at 100%, prior to mastering the form. Vegeta states so himself. And it's not as if the moment you turn SSJB you can't maintain it's complete power, because you can, for the very least a short period of time. So it's not as if SSJB burns through your energy instantly. You just can't maintain it at 100% too long without mastering the form. This would mean that SSJ Goku Black, after his first Zenkai, is very much comparable to Merged Zamasu considering Vegeta fought SSJ Goku Black at 100% of the power of SSJB, or very least, incredibly close to the 100% power of SSJB, considering that SSJB Vegeta at a senzu and regained his full strength after he was getting mauled by SSJ Goku Black following his zenkai. Or just the gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta is fucking huge, especially at 100% of SSJB.

I'm not saying the mastered SSJ gives a Power Up in Goku's strength.
I said that the situation is similar to that of the Saga Cell, in which Goku dominated the SSJ more efficiently than Vegeta.
By taking all the load that the SSJ puts on the body, without having to depend on the emotional state to use the transformation, increasing the fighting power without overloading is easier (besides decreasing the energy expenditure, being able to be used for a longer time ).

Vegeta said that.
But that does not mean that with the SSB dominated this will be the same.
The method of mastering the two forms is different, the concept too, so one can give a Power Up in strength while the other does not

It is supposed that by concentrating all the energy of the SSB into the body, Goku gets stronger. After all, it is so much Ki that your body can explode.

Vegeta actually used all the power of the SSB in short periods of time to attack Black, but in that case it's different. The way Goku dominated the SSB is more effective in terms of power because the concentrated Ki is much larger

[Lord Beerus]

You are right. Vegeta even states that he can't use Blue's full power constantly "yet."
I was wondering wouldn't it be cool if Vegeta mastered the reacting without thinking skill instead of the Blue power?
Remember Whis was talking to Goku and Vegeta about that, something Beerus himself didn't even master.

But Goku doesn't get stronger from mastering SSJ. "Mastered" Super Saiyan is no different than regular Super Saiyan in terms of the power it grants the user. It's still the same standard 50x increase instead of something greater like ASSJ( Grade 2) or USSJ (Grade 3). However, in addition to the obvious benefits of minimizing the energy drain and incurring less stamina issues to make the form very easy to use in battle, being able to remain within the form for extended periods of time grants a huge benefit to training. Hell, one of the Super Exciting Guide books actually points this out and credits it as a huge factor in Goku's power growth while he was in the Room of Spirit and Time. Goku and Gohan just raised their base power level so high which in turn raised their Super Saiyan power level high enough to be a match for Cell.

And there's nothing to say Vegeta has never been able to fight at full power for SSJB, because he can but only for the "short while" that the form grant you have it if you don't master SSJB. The major inconsistency is that you can fight at 100%, prior to mastering the form. Vegeta states so himself. And it's not as if the moment you turn SSJB you can't maintain it's complete power, because you can, for the very least a short period of time. So it's not as if SSJB burns through your energy instantly. You just can't maintain it at 100% too long without mastering the form. This would mean that SSJ Goku Black, after his first Zenkai, is very much comparable to Merged Zamasu considering Vegeta fought SSJ Goku Black at 100% of the power of SSJB, or very least, incredibly close to the 100% power of SSJB, considering that SSJB Vegeta at a senzu and regained his full strength after he was getting mauled by SSJ Goku Black following his zenkai. Or just the gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta is fucking huge, especially at 100% of SSJB.

I'm not saying the mastered SSJ gives a Power Up in Goku's strength.
I said that the situation is similar to that of the Saga Cell, in which Goku dominated the SSJ more efficiently than Vegeta.
By taking all the load that the SSJ puts on the body, without having to depend on the emotional state to use the transformation, increasing the fighting power without overloading is easier (besides decreasing the energy expenditure, being able to be used for a longer time ).

Vegeta said that.
But that does not mean that with the SSB dominated this will be the same.
The method of mastering the two forms is different, the concept too, so one can give a Power Up in strength while the other does not

It is supposed that by concentrating all the energy of the SSB into the body, Goku gets stronger. After all, it is so much Ki that your body can explode.

Vegeta actually used all the power of the SSB in short periods of time to attack Black, but in that case it's different. The way Goku dominated the SSB is more effective in terms of power because the concentrated Ki is much larger

I've read Chapter 24 several time, and to clarify, Vegeta says you can only maintain the power of SSJB for a short while. Goku just managed to master, or "complete", the SSJB form and can fight at full power much longer than Vegeta can. That's the whole reason he tells Future Trunks to heal Goku instead of him. The amount of strength that SSJB provides Goku and Vegeta is still the same, whether it be at 10%, 25%, 50%, 80% or 100%. It just seems as though Goku at the full power of SSJB is much stronger than Vegeta at full power of SSJB. Of course it's noteworthy to take into consideration that Goku can maintain the power of SSJB longer than Vegeta can, but it wouldn't matter that much if, at 100% of the power of SSJB, Goku wasn't supposedly as strong as he is and much stronger than Vegeta.

And again, this case not similar to what happened in the Cell arc. It's explicitly stated by Vegeta himself, after Goku and Gohan emerge from the ROSAT, that Goku and Gohan didn't make their SSJ form stronger from mastering them, they just made the SSJ form to more efficient with it's ki usage and stamina drain allowing them to fight at 100% for longer. But even in that case, Mastered Super Saiyan Goku was still far weaker Cell and Goku knew that from the second he confronted him. The only form outside of SSJ2 that we knew was stronger than Perfect Cell at that time was Grade 3 SSJ/USSJ. Perfect Cell even states himself that Grade 3 SSJ/USSJ Future Trunks was far stronger than him and could kill him. But he had no chance of killing Perfect Cell because the Grade 3 SSJ/USSJ forms overly bulky muscles crippled his speed so much that he couldn't actually land any punches on him.

[Basako]

I've read Chapter 24 several time, and to clarify, Vegeta says you can only maintain the power of SSJB for a short while. Goku just managed to master, or "complete", the SSJB form and can fight at full power much longer than Vegeta can. That's the whole reason he tells Future Trunks to heal Goku instead of him. The amount of strength that SSJB provides Goku and Vegeta is still the same, whether it be at 10%, 25%, 50%, 80% or 100%. It just seems as though Goku at the full power of SSJB is much stronger than Vegeta at full power of SSJB. Of course it's noteworthy to take into consideration that Goku can maintain the power of SSJB longer than Vegeta can, but it wouldn't matter that much if, at 100% of the power of SSJB, Goku wasn't supposedly as strong as he is and much stronger than Vegeta.

This continously fighting at 100%, you interpret it as only the amount of time, but it can't be just that, it's only been just four pages of the fight when he says it. So there has to be something else, that means the regular SSB is not at 100% almost ever. Four pages.

If anything Vegeta's words are a bit ambiguous when he explains the weakness of the regular blue, but that would be the part that could be wrong or not perfectly explained, not the other.

[Lord Beerus]

I've read Chapter 24 several time, and to clarify, Vegeta says you can only maintain the power of SSJB for a short while. Goku just managed to master, or "complete", the SSJB form and can fight at full power much longer than Vegeta can. That's the whole reason he tells Future Trunks to heal Goku instead of him. The amount of strength that SSJB provides Goku and Vegeta is still the same, whether it be at 10%, 25%, 50%, 80% or 100%. It just seems as though Goku at the full power of SSJB is much stronger than Vegeta at full power of SSJB. Of course it's noteworthy to take into consideration that Goku can maintain the power of SSJB longer than Vegeta can, but it wouldn't matter that much if, at 100% of the power of SSJB, Goku wasn't supposedly as strong as he is and much stronger than Vegeta.

This continously fighting at 100%, you interpret it as only the amount of time, but it can't be just that, it's only been just four pages of the fight when he says it. So there has to be something else, that means the regular SSB is not at 100%, not even anything.

If anything Vegeta's words are a bit ambiguous when he explains the weakness of the regular blue, but that would be the part that could be wrong or not perfectly explained, not the other.

There is still the major with when Vegeta fought SSJ Goku Black after his first zenkai. Vegeta gets his ass beat, eats senzu, which restores his health and strength back to maximum capacity, charges right back at SSJ Goku Black and still gets his butt kicked badly. So either Vegeta with haemorrhaging his strength as SSJB the second he fought again against SSJ Goku Black, which wouldn't make sense and contradict what Vegeta said with being able to fight at the full power for a short while even when you haven't mastered the SSJB form, or Vegeta's SSJB form is weak as shit compared to Goku. Unless "a short while" counts as a split second or a few seconds, which wouldn't make sense either. And keep in mind, Vegeta trained again in the ROSAT for practically a whole day before fighting Goku Black again in their second trip to the future, while Goku was practising the Mafuba. Which would just emphasise even further that the gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta is fucking huge.

[TheSaiyanGod]

But Goku doesn't get stronger from mastering SSJ. "Mastered" Super Saiyan is no different than regular Super Saiyan in terms of the power it grants the user. It's still the same standard 50x increase instead of something greater like ASSJ( Grade 2) or USSJ (Grade 3). However, in addition to the obvious benefits of minimizing the energy drain and incurring less stamina issues to make the form very easy to use in battle, being able to remain within the form for extended periods of time grants a huge benefit to training. Hell, one of the Super Exciting Guide books actually points this out and credits it as a huge factor in Goku's power growth while he was in the Room of Spirit and Time. Goku and Gohan just raised their base power level so high which in turn raised their Super Saiyan power level high enough to be a match for Cell.

And there's nothing to say Vegeta has never been able to fight at full power for SSJB, because he can but only for the "short while" that the form grant you have it if you don't master SSJB. The major inconsistency is that you can fight at 100%, prior to mastering the form. Vegeta states so himself. And it's not as if the moment you turn SSJB you can't maintain it's complete power, because you can, for the very least a short period of time. So it's not as if SSJB burns through your energy instantly. You just can't maintain it at 100% too long without mastering the form. This would mean that SSJ Goku Black, after his first Zenkai, is very much comparable to Merged Zamasu considering Vegeta fought SSJ Goku Black at 100% of the power of SSJB, or very least, incredibly close to the 100% power of SSJB, considering that SSJB Vegeta at a senzu and regained his full strength after he was getting mauled by SSJ Goku Black following his zenkai. Or just the gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta is fucking huge, especially at 100% of SSJB.

I'm not saying the mastered SSJ gives a Power Up in Goku's strength.
I said that the situation is similar to that of the Saga Cell, in which Goku dominated the SSJ more efficiently than Vegeta.
By taking all the load that the SSJ puts on the body, without having to depend on the emotional state to use the transformation, increasing the fighting power without overloading is easier (besides decreasing the energy expenditure, being able to be used for a longer time ).

Vegeta said that.
But that does not mean that with the SSB dominated this will be the same.
The method of mastering the two forms is different, the concept too, so one can give a Power Up in strength while the other does not

It is supposed that by concentrating all the energy of the SSB into the body, Goku gets stronger. After all, it is so much Ki that your body can explode.

Vegeta actually used all the power of the SSB in short periods of time to attack Black, but in that case it's different. The way Goku dominated the SSB is more effective in terms of power because the concentrated Ki is much larger

I've read Chapter 24 several time, and to clarify, Vegeta says you can only maintain the power of SSJB for a short while. Goku just managed to master, or "complete", the SSJB form and can fight at full power much longer than Vegeta can. That's the whole reason he tells Future Trunks to heal Goku instead of him. The amount of strength that SSJB provides Goku and Vegeta is still the same, whether it be at 10%, 25%, 50%, 80% or 100%. It just seems as though Goku at the full power of SSJB is much stronger than Vegeta at full power of SSJB. Of course it's noteworthy to take into consideration that Goku can maintain the power of SSJB longer than Vegeta can, but it wouldn't matter that much if, at 100% of the power of SSJB, Goku wasn't supposedly as strong as he is and much stronger than Vegeta.

And again, this case not similar to what happened in the Cell arc. It's explicitly stated by Vegeta himself, after Goku and Gohan emerge from the ROSAT, that Goku and Gohan didn't make their SSJ form stronger from mastering them, they just made the SSJ form to more efficient with it's ki usage and stamina drain allowing them to fight at 100% for longer. But even in that case, Mastered Super Saiyan Goku was still far weaker Cell and Goku knew that from the second he confronted him. The only form outside of SSJ2 that we knew was stronger than Perfect Cell at that time was Grade 3 SSJ/USSJ. Perfect Cell even states himself that Grade 3 SSJ/USSJ Future Trunks was far stronger than him and could kill him. But he had no chance of killing Perfect Cell because the Grade 3 SSJ/USSJ forms overly bulky muscles crippled his speed so much that he couldn't actually land any punches on him.

Again, I'm not saying that the SSB had its '' multiplier '' (or whatever the power increase of that form) is greater than Vegeta's SSB
It is the same transformation, only that the power of the Goku was amplified after all that dense and powerful energy that leaked from the transformation to be concentrated in his body.

Despite being used for a few seconds and without wasting energy, Vegeta SSB did not concetrate the energy it released into his body, possibly preventing him from reaching the maximum potential of the SSB that would be all the power of the transformation being used at once.

In the case of SSJ Full Power, they did not increase the multiplier of the form, they only reduced the effort to transform and the energy expenditure of the transformation, besides being easier to increase the fighting power without being overburdened precisely by what I said

[omaro34]

I enjoy the Manga and appreciate Toyotaro's excellent work, but I have a problem with the Manga. While I appreciate his efforts to make his story unique and different from the Anime, I feel that many of his plot are created without taking into consideration that it contradicts the established Dragonball plot points that we as fans are so accustomed to and everyone universally agrees upon.

It rarely does contradict the original series, and every time I can think of that it has, it's contradicting another contradiction, such is the case with the time machine link. As for contradicted the fans' preconceived notions, so what? Preconceptions are worthless in the face of actual content.

Perhaps I'll look into it further and give specific examples regarding contradictions to the original series, I've seen credible people within the community say so and I'll have to do my homework on that one,

However, the manga itself makes contradictions, the biggest one being that the manga says that the reason why the fusion has a time limit is because Zamasu wasn't officially recognized as a Kaioshin, yet he still able to use the time ring, which Supreme Kai clearly states only a Kaioshin can do.

[Basako]

I've read Chapter 24 several time, and to clarify, Vegeta says you can only maintain the power of SSJB for a short while. Goku just managed to master, or "complete", the SSJB form and can fight at full power much longer than Vegeta can. That's the whole reason he tells Future Trunks to heal Goku instead of him. The amount of strength that SSJB provides Goku and Vegeta is still the same, whether it be at 10%, 25%, 50%, 80% or 100%. It just seems as though Goku at the full power of SSJB is much stronger than Vegeta at full power of SSJB. Of course it's noteworthy to take into consideration that Goku can maintain the power of SSJB longer than Vegeta can, but it wouldn't matter that much if, at 100% of the power of SSJB, Goku wasn't supposedly as strong as he is and much stronger than Vegeta.

This continously fighting at 100%, you interpret it as only the amount of time, but it can't be just that, it's only been just four pages of the fight when he says it. So there has to be something else, that means the regular SSB is not at 100%, not even anything.

If anything Vegeta's words are a bit ambiguous when he explains the weakness of the regular blue, but that would be the part that could be wrong or not perfectly explained, not the other.

There is still the major with when Vegeta fought SSJ Goku Black after his first zenkai. Vegeta gets his ass beat, eats senzu, which restores his health and strength back to maximum capacity, charges right back at SSJ Goku Black and still gets his butt kicked badly. So either Vegeta with haemorrhaging his strength as SSJB the second he fought again against SSJ Goku Black, which wouldn't make sense and contradict what Vegeta said with being able to fight at the full power for a short while even when you haven't mastered the SSJB form, or Vegeta's SSJB form is weak as shit compared to Goku. Unless "a short while" counts as a split second or a few seconds, which wouldn't make sense either. And keep in mind, Vegeta trained again in the ROSAT for practically a whole day before fighting Goku Black again in their second trip to the future, while Goku was practising the Mafuba. Which would just emphasise even further that the gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta is fucking huge.

Yeah, that's why I tell maybe you should consider the words of Vegeta in this chapter are not very accurate, all past and present events point the mastered SSB is at 100% and the regular just isn't.

I think we have to put some words in context, not be so tight about them. Like the issue with Gowasu's words this same chapter. Whatever he said, it's a fact that non Kaioshins have used the time rings, that points that the real requisite is to wear a Kaioshin's Potara, not to be a Kaioshin.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

However, the manga itself makes contradictions, the biggest one being that the manga says that the reason why the fusion has a time limit is because Zamasu wasn't officially recognized as a Kaioshin, yet he still able to use the time ring, which Supreme Kai clearly states only a Kaioshin can do.

That's definitely a surface contradiction, but there's room for interpretation there. Perhaps it's technically possible for anyone wearing Potara to use a time ring, but it's strictly forbidden for anyone other than Kaioshin, which would make the phrase "Only Kaioshin can use a time ring" a reasonable statement. Whereas in the case of fusion, it's physically impossible to maintain it permanently unless you undergo an official promotion to Kaioshin. Admittedly, these things are more vague than they should be, but most of it is perfectly reconcilable.

[LowRyder2005]

This continously fighting at 100%, you interpret it as only the amount of time, but it can't be just that, it's only been just four pages of the fight when he says it. So there has to be something else, that means the regular SSB is not at 100%, not even anything.

If anything Vegeta's words are a bit ambiguous when he explains the weakness of the regular blue, but that would be the part that could be wrong or not perfectly explained, not the other.

There is still the major with when Vegeta fought SSJ Goku Black after his first zenkai. Vegeta gets his ass beat, eats senzu, which restores his health and strength back to maximum capacity, charges right back at SSJ Goku Black and still gets his butt kicked badly. So either Vegeta with haemorrhaging his strength as SSJB the second he fought again against SSJ Goku Black, which wouldn't make sense and contradict what Vegeta said with being able to fight at the full power for a short while even when you haven't mastered the SSJB form, or Vegeta's SSJB form is weak as shit compared to Goku. Unless "a short while" counts as a split second or a few seconds, which wouldn't make sense either. And keep in mind, Vegeta trained again in the ROSAT for practically a whole day before fighting Goku Black again in their second trip to the future, while Goku was practising the Mafuba. Which would just emphasise even further that the gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta is fucking huge.

Yeah, that's why I tell maybe you should consider the words of Vegeta in this chapter are not very accurate, all past and present events point the mastered SSB is at 100% and the regular just isn't.

I think we have to put some words in context, not be so tight about them. Like the issue with Gowasu's words this same chapter. Whatever he said, it's a fact that non Kaioshins have used the time rings, that points that the real requisite is to wear a Kaioshin's Potara, not to be a Kaioshin.

Indeed. This passage is remarked around chapter 20 (can't remember exactly) through Bulma's recap of Zamas' M.O.: she says that the thief "stole the Potaras and travelled to the destination". Since the Potaras, at that point, served no other particular purpose and were referenced in that context, it looks kind of likely that's what the meaning the phrase wanted to convey. Add that Zamas travels in time only when using the Potaras and it seems likely the earrings to some extent serve both the purposes of fusing and allowing travel through timelines, in conjunction with the Time Ring.

Gowas' statement - in turn - is probably meant to underline the fact that Kaioshin wouldn't have (presumably) obtained any earrings, so no time travel for him. A bit naïve maybe, but not really a plothole.

[omaro34]

However, the manga itself makes contradictions, the biggest one being that the manga says that the reason why the fusion has a time limit is because Zamasu wasn't officially recognized as a Kaioshin, yet he still able to use the time ring, which Supreme Kai clearly states only a Kaioshin can do.

That's definitely a surface contradiction, but there's room for interpretation there. Perhaps it's technically possible for anyone wearing Potara to use a time ring, but it's strictly forbidden for anyone other than Kaioshin, which would make the phrase "Only Kaioshin can use a time ring" a reasonable statement. Whereas in the case of fusion, it's physically impossible to maintain it permanently unless you undergo an official promotion to Kaioshin. Admittedly, these things are more vague than they should be, but most of it is perfectly reconcilable.

I hear you, makes sense. Or in a more simplistic way, it could be interpreted that the Supreme Kai's word shouldn't have a strong bearing since he's been wrong before.

[Gig]

I just read chapter 24.
I liked it.

The moment Goku stopped his aura, for a moment I thought he was going to activate kaioken like he did with Hit in the anime... I was wrong. However I appreciated Toyotaro's ideas... he's successfully keeping he story interesting even for who already watched the anime!
He did not have the suprise effect of Black real identity and passed quickly over it (a thing which let me almost a bit disappointed at the time)... but he's now delivering us more pages with relatively "new" suff!

Also Zamasu/Janenba technique looks good action!

And he found an unexpected way to have Trunks useful again!

[TKA]

This whole "completing SSj blue" thing is not that cool IMO. It's a cop-out. Earlier in the manga we were only told that it's not good to transfom into SSj blue, drop out of it and then transform again.

That's not how stories work. The reader only gets the minimal information that they need. "Why is transforming to Super Saiyan blue strenuous?" We weren't told then because it wasn't important. Now we know why.

We weren't told that the usage of the force is hereditary in Episode 4 when it was being explained. Is it bad then that in Episode 6 we got more information on it that said as much? NO. Because it wasn't relevant.

Were we told the history of The One Ring in the Hobbit? No. We didn't learn it was more than just an invisibility ring until the sequel to that book. Is it then bad that Tolkien withheld that information? NO. Because that's that's not how stories work.

This is a story, not some guide being published. Stories are different from infographics.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Changing the focus of the discussion a bit, did Toyotaro stop detailing the aura of SSB? I do not understand much of it, but usually it had a black outline around it (besides those particles of energy), leaving the aura more in evidence. Since chapter 23 I've noticed that. But it's only at this point that I found it strange, it's still beautiful

[batistabus]

Dabura going through the effort to destroy the already destroyed Z Sword is what I would consider ludicrous. Why would he think to do that?

I really do like how Toyotaro finished the Zamasu scene he really does look downtrodden and defeated when he realizes that he himself may have the power to stop evil, but as explained by Gowasu by being a Kaio Shin he simply is not allowed to do so. It's a great way to end his scene. On a big if, has he really become evil? Or has Gowasu finally gotten to his apprentice?

Kibito being the one blamed by Shin as the one who's Goku Black is something that should have actually happened.

I didn't get the impression that Dabra was specifically attacking the sword. To me, it seemed like he tried to hit Trunks, but he dodged and the blast hit the sword.

Disillusioned Zamasu is one of my favorite moments of the arc. The way the manga handles it isn't totally different from the anime, but the way it is presented just has so much more impact. Glad you enjoyed that part.

I thought that Kibito gag was hilarious. It makes so much sense! I'm glad Kibito got more time in the spotlight in the manga, especially with his fight against Zamasu.

Speaking of which, ink8yte on Reddit colored a page from that fight per my request!
[spoiler]
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6 ... _v_zamasu/[/spoiler]
His first coloring attempt was a page from the Vegeta vs Black fight.
[spoiler]
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6 ... anga_page/[/spoiler]

[Gog]

I didn't get the impression that Dabra was specifically attacking the sword. To me, it seemed like he tried to hit Trunks, but he dodged and the blast hit the sword.

It never was stated, implied, or even shown that was the case. If he was aiming at Trunks, and he missed a single panel, or line from Dabura would have made that clear. In fact Trunks never even dodged the Sword. He just stood there as well.

Speaking of which, ink8yte on Reddit colored a page from that fight per my request!
[spoiler]
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6 ... _v_zamasu/[/spoiler]
His first coloring attempt was a page from the Vegeta vs Black fight.
[spoiler]
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6 ... anga_page/[/spoiler]

The coloring on those pages are absolutely gorgeous. ink8yte did an absolutely fantastic job.

[batistabus]

It never was stated, implied, or even shown that was the case. If he was aiming at Trunks, and he missed a single panel, or line from Dabura would have made that clear. In fact Trunks never even dodged the Sword. He just stood there as well.

-Spit gets on the Z sword, so Trunks throws it to the ground.
-Without a sword, Trunks blocks Dabra's slash between his hands.
-The Z sword hits the ground and shatters.
-The Z sword is blasted.
-Trunks lands on the ground right next to the blast.
-Dabra says he'll kill all 3 of them and doesn't mention the Z Sword. It is not mentioned again.

Trunks certainly wasn't just standing there. I think my interpretation is reasonable.