"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[STH]

Goku Black is factually SS1 in that fight. When Goku is SS2 his hair spikes up and he loses most of his bangs, but Black clearly has the SS1 hairstyle.

We can not always decide according to the hairstyle. For example Vegeta's hairstyle never changes when he turns to ssj1-2. But if he turns to ssj2, then he has electricity. That's why we know he turns to ssj2.

So, black turns to ssj2 in chapter 19.

Goku isn't always drawn with lightning in SS2, but he is ALWAYS drawn with different hair.

Lightning is the biggest difference between Ssj1 and 2.

[Doctor.]

Are we forgetting Super Vegetto had sparks?

Black is clearly Super Saiyan 1 due to the hair style, Goku's hair is always distinctive enough between forms. The lightning probably indicates that it's just a super strong Super Saiyan form, which should be no surprise considering base Black is enough to deal with a Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (who is equal to SS3 Goku in his own right). In fact, Black and Boo arc Vegetto should be similar in strength.

[LightBing]

Are we forgetting Super Vegetto had sparks?

Black is clearly Super Saiyan 1 due to the hair style, Goku's hair is always distinctive enough between forms. The lightning probably indicates that it's just a super strong Super Saiyan form, which should be no surprise considering base Black is enough to deal with a Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (who is equal to SS3 Goku in his own right). In fact, Black and Boo arc Vegetto should be similar in strength.

Super Vegetto only had sparks when he transformed. Beyond that his aura was that of a regular Super Saiyan. Sparks is one of the ways to demonstrate impact, Cabba also has them in the manga when transforming and they aren't there past that.

Black is his own beast, dude has eyelights, SSJ1 hair and sparks. Like I said before he's his own kind of beast, his SSJ form is probably the best Zamasu can pull off the body and is independent of regular Super Saiyan traits. For some reason dude has pink hair when God, all rules are out the window.

[shadowfox87]

If you guys read Chapter 19, it should be clear that Vegeta himself is in SSJ2. His hair doesn't change, so the only distinctive factor is the lightning. Super Vegito has known to show lightning when he first transforms, but that lightning doesn't stay. Here, Black is fighting Vegeta with persistence of the lightning. In the Buu Saga, Goku and Vegeta fight each other using SSJ2, so that's something you can use to compare what they look like.

[PFM18]

The whole Super Saiyan 2 thing has always been hard to distinguish. Usually if lightning is present it is an indication of SSJ2 where SSJ Vegetto is the only exception.

[PsionicWarrior]

Read 37, mostly enjoyed it but still have a few complaints lol

- very poor dialogues overall, if they want to make action only make it action only and spare us the retarded dialogues please lol
worst example (among many others lol) would be Goku, ugh, he is surprised Kale gets stronger by fighting a stronger opponent than her, ******* really what the actual **** lol
she is a Saiyajin just like you you dumbass that's 100% out of character, a normal reaction from Goku would've been something like "wow cool I'm excited to fight this impressive opponent!", not acting all surprised because a saiyajin gets stronger when pissed off and fighting strong folks I know that's a stupid fanboy reaction from me but it pissed me off, typically the kind of stuff that really makes me wonder if Toriyama is invested in this at all lately lol
- still perspective issues here and there, even if the drawing is better than previous two chapters (although that wasn't too hard to do lol)
- also power level issues start to enter the anime tier, I know Caulifla is a prodigy but come on lol

I didn't like ToP much in the anime, and I don't think I like it much in the manga either lol

On the plus side I think Golden Freeza was really nicely drawn lol


@PFM18 the hair is also slightly different lol

[Vegeta_Sama]

The whole Super Saiyan 2 thing has always been hard to distinguish. Usually if lightning is present it is an indication of SSJ2 where SSJ Vegetto is the only exception.

No, it's very easy to distinguish for people who pay attention, and it always has been (with the exeption of Vegeta's case): Goku has more, thicker bangs in SS1, while he has 3 small bangs in SS22, one on the front and two on the sides:

[PFM18]

The whole Super Saiyan 2 thing has always been hard to distinguish. Usually if lightning is present it is an indication of SSJ2 where SSJ Vegetto is the only exception.

No, it's very easy to distinguish for people who pay attention, and it always has been (with the exeption of Vegeta's case): Goku has more, thicker bangs in SS1, while he has 3 small bangs in SS22, one on the front and two on the sides:

Well in the manga in a scene with Golu specifically showing the differences between the two it is easy. But the exceptions are: Vegeta all the time, Goku Black, Gohan against Dabura.

Goku is really the exception not the rule.

[Mattias_]

- still perspective issues here and there, even if the drawing is better than previous two chapters (although that wasn't too hard to do lol)

Yep, I agree.

Toyotaro is not the best mangaka out there but well...

[Marlowe89]

Well in the manga in a scene with Golu specifically showing the differences between the two it is easy. But the exceptions are: Vegeta all the time, Goku Black, Gohan against Dabura.

Goku is really the exception not the rule.

That really depends on the character. Vegeta, Cabba and adult Gohan are "exceptions" because their hairstyles naturally make it difficult to differentiate their first and second Super Saiyan stages from a design standpoint. Conversely, Goku, teen Gohan, Trunks, and Caulifla are all much easier to discern.

[Vegeta_Sama]

The whole Super Saiyan 2 thing has always been hard to distinguish. Usually if lightning is present it is an indication of SSJ2 where SSJ Vegetto is the only exception.

No, it's very easy to distinguish for people who pay attention, and it always has been (with the exeption of Vegeta's case): Goku has more, thicker bangs in SS1, while he has 3 small bangs in SS22, one on the front and two on the sides:

Well in the manga in a scene with Golu specifically showing the differences between the two it is easy. But the exceptions are: Vegeta all the time, Goku Black, Gohan against Dabura.

Goku is really the exception not the rule.

Yeah, pretty much. Also, Adult Gohan SS1 has a two bangs, one big one, and a smaller one, as opposed ti a big, thicker bang in SS2. It's a sybtke difference, but aside from that, it's really hard to tell when it comes to Vegeta. Also I'd imagine that Goku Black's are the same as Goku, considering it's the same body

[PFM18]

No, it's very easy to distinguish for people who pay attention, and it always has been (with the exeption of Vegeta's case): Goku has more, thicker bangs in SS1, while he has 3 small bangs in SS22, one on the front and two on the sides:

Well in the manga in a scene with Golu specifically showing the differences between the two it is easy. But the exceptions are: Vegeta all the time, Goku Black, Gohan against Dabura.

Goku is really the exception not the rule.

Yeah, pretty much. Also, Adult Gohan SS1 has a two bangs, one big one, and a smaller one, as opposed ti a big, thicker bang in SS2. It's a sybtke difference, but aside from that, it's really hard to tell when it comes to Vegeta. Also I'd imagine that Goku Black's are the same as Goku, considering it's the same body

Well with Gohan it is still heavily debated if he was SSJ1 or SSJ2 against Dabura

[SSJgogeto]

IMO he was SSJ at that time.

[batistabus]

The reason I thought it was Super Saiyan 2, aside from the sparks, is the first image of Black after he transforms. I realize now that it's just a wind-swept effect, but combined with the sparks, I thought it was SS2.



However, later on in the chapter (and in Chapter 20), he is shown to clearly be Super Saiyan 1:



So he has sparks despite being a Super Saiyan. Is there an in-universe explanation for this? We'll probably never know.

[Miracles]

I believe the evidence points to Black being in Super Saiyan 1 despite the Super Saiyan 2 lightning.
In chapter 20; page 11, Black stated he couldn't even turn into a "regular" Super Saiyan after trying to access Goku's full potential of Blue. Vegeta later tells him to go Blue Black says he can't.
In chapter 19, Goku and Mai both state Black turned into a Super Saiyan. Trunks confirms saying he hasn't seen him do that in a while.
In the anime, base Black was just as strong as SSJ2 Goku if not stronger. Trunks was fodder to Black even tho his SSJ2 is near Goku's SSJ3 in the manga.
However, Vegeta's SSJ2 is stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Trunks SSJ2. So Black's SSJ1 competing against SSj2 Vegeta is logical since both would be stronger than Goku three and Trunks two mode.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Well in the manga in a scene with Golu specifically showing the differences between the two it is easy. But the exceptions are: Vegeta all the time, Goku Black, Gohan against Dabura.

Goku is really the exception not the rule.

Yeah, pretty much. Also, Adult Gohan SS1 has a two bangs, one big one, and a smaller one, as opposed ti a big, thicker bang in SS2. It's a sybtke difference, but aside from that, it's really hard to tell when it comes to Vegeta. Also I'd imagine that Goku Black's are the same as Goku, considering it's the same body

Well with Gohan it is still heavily debated if he was SSJ1 or SSJ2 against Dabura

He was SS2 against Dabura (see in the second image he has the Great Saiyaman outfit in which he fought him)
Basically his adult SS2 resembles a shorter version of his cell saga one, while SS1 resembles his adult base forma hair

[Saiga]

The tournament shows him using SS1 with only 1 bang. His hairstyle in general changes by the time of the tournament, which is a month after he is seen turning Super Saiyan with two bangs.

It's really unclear.

[Vegeta_Sama]

The tournament shows him using SS1 with only 1 bang. His hairstyle in general changes by the time of the tournament, which is a month after he is seen turning Super Saiyan with two bangs.

It's really unclear.

What if he just turned SS2 in the tournament? I remember that he was pressured to release ALL of his strenght, and it would also make sense that the amount of energy taken by Spopovich and his buddy Yamu would be enough for them to be satisfied with going back to Babidi. But still, it's just speculation nobody ever confirmed wheter he was SS1 or 2. Imo, it makes sense for him to be SS2, it's more consistent with what was previously shown

[Saiga]

He was definitely SS2 when showing off to Kibito, but when Spopovich was battering Videl he turned into SS1 with one bang.

His base form hair is also visibly different after the 1 month of training

[SSJgogeto]

Yeah, exactly.

Also, when he was fighting Dabura:

1 - The aura of the transformation was the same as SS, not SS2.
2 - There were no sparkles.