Michsi wrote:
This feels like the type of hyperbolic criticism designed to make things look worse than they actually are. Piccolo's elimination was poorly handled, everything else was ok. I remember people claiming that 'lol Piccolo will be rung out in 5 minutes because he is now a joke' or 'Gohan will be carried until the end '. What they got instead was one the most impressive moments in the whole arc, and several eliminations of their own. Basically, every so called negative moment can be countered with positive ones, and Gohan isn't finished yet. It does look like he's been slowly finding his rhythm.
The trouble is they needlessly get embarrassed for no reason. Gohan shouldn't be be getting destroyed by fodders while 'holding back'.
I blame the writing/direction. Like they didn't how to show U7's power primacy without making the other universes seem like fodder. They shouldn't be steamrolling over everyone aside from Jiren, so they showed them in a bind here and there. The sniper idea was interesting, it just wasn't handled well.
Piccolo and the others focusing too much on ki was also a good idea, it just was implemented effectively. Making it embarrassing wasn't the intention, though I guess that kinda makes it worse.
Michsi wrote:
This feels like the type of hyperbolic criticism designed to make things look worse than they actually are. Piccolo's elimination was poorly handled, everything else was ok. I remember people claiming that 'lol Piccolo will be rung out in 5 minutes because he is now a joke' or 'Gohan will be carried until the end '. What they got instead was one the most impressive moments in the whole arc, and several eliminations of their own. Basically, every so called negative moment can be countered with positive ones, and Gohan isn't finished yet. It does look like he's been slowly finding his rhythm.
The trouble is they needlessly get embarrassed for no reason. Gohan shouldn't be be getting destroyed by fodders while 'holding back'.
I blame the writing/direction. Like they didn't how to show U7's power primacy without making the other universes seem like fodder. They shouldn't be steamrolling over everyone aside from Jiren, so they showed them in a bind here and there. The sniper idea was interesting, it just wasn't handled well.
Piccolo and the others focusing too much on ki was also a good idea, it just was implemented effectively. Making it embarrassing wasn't the intention, though I guess that kinda makes it worse.
I'm well aware that it's due to incompetent writing, but ultimately characters are what they're written as and thus end up looking totally incompetent compared to their DB incarnations.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:It was implied that if Gohan didn't catch on Freeza would have just owned him. Besides, you think Freeza would struggle nearly as much as Gohan did against those Namekians? It'd be a repeat of what he did on Namek.
That implication was made on the basis of when Freeza first attacked Gohan, while Gohan was in his base form. Of course, in that regard, yes, Final Form Freeza could have killed Gohan.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:It was implied that if Gohan didn't catch on Freeza would have just owned him. Besides, you think Freeza would struggle nearly as much as Gohan did against those Namekians? It'd be a repeat of what he did on Namek.
That implication was made on the basis of when Freeza first attacked Gohan, while Gohan was in his base form. Of course, in that regard, yes, Final Form Freeza could have killed Gohan.
Unless Gohan suddenly lost the ability to transform, it should hold for their full power.
Nickolaidas wrote:
Pretty much in the entirety of Super. UI Goku surpassed him but I'm pretty sure Vegeta will claim that form as well and be his equal once more.
Oh sure, like Kaioken is not a thing right? Goku being capable of increasing his power as SSJB not just 2x but 20x is a thing Vegeta also can do, right? I probably missed that part.
Well the Kaio-Ken is a plot device, mainly, but still it's a technique with a high risk/reward factor.
The fact remains that SSB Vegeta is equal to SSB Goku in terms of strength and speed.
The kaioken WAS a risk/reward factor, now goku can easily access kaioken on blue without any risks.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:It was implied that if Gohan didn't catch on Freeza would have just owned him. Besides, you think Freeza would struggle nearly as much as Gohan did against those Namekians? It'd be a repeat of what he did on Namek.
That implication was made on the basis of when Freeza first attacked Gohan, while Gohan was in his base form. Of course, in that regard, yes, Final Form Freeza could have killed Gohan.
Unless Gohan suddenly lost the ability to transform, it should hold for their full power.
It can't. By the time they transformed, they were both fully putting on the act that Freeza had betrayed Universe 7 and that they were fighting at full power, when they weren't.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
17's motivation is kinda odd for me. Couldn't he just ask goku to gather the dragonballs and wish for 100 more of those minotaur creatures so they don't become extinct
Lord Beerus wrote:
That implication was made on the basis of when Freeza first attacked Gohan, while Gohan was in his base form. Of course, in that regard, yes, Final Form Freeza could have killed Gohan.
Unless Gohan suddenly lost the ability to transform, it should hold for their full power.
It can't. By the time they transformed, they were both fully putting on the act that Freeza had betrayed Universe 7 and that they were fighting at full power, when they weren't.
But even after that Kuririn says that Freeza probably would have betrayed them if Gohan didn't realize his plan which means that Freeza could have beaten Gohan for real if he wanted.
jplaya2023 wrote:17's motivation is kinda odd for me. Couldn't he just ask goku to gather the dragonballs and wish for 100 more of those minotaur creatures so they don't become extinct
I doubt the Dragon Balls can create beings into existence out of thin air just like they can't wish back beings that have died of natural deaths.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
also the whole 17 knows goku's voice but not his face is bogus 2 me. Gero created those androids specifically to kill goku, so why wouldn't his picture be in the databanks in their memories? 16 knew everything about goku and 19 had no trouble figuring who goku was
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Unless Gohan suddenly lost the ability to transform, it should hold for their full power.
It can't. By the time they transformed, they were both fully putting on the act that Freeza had betrayed Universe 7 and that they were fighting at full power, when they weren't.
But even after that Kuririn says that Freeza probably would have betrayed them if Gohan didn't realize his plan which means that Freeza could have beaten Gohan for real if he wanted.
No, it doesn't. It just means that Freeza could have went full turncoat. That doesn't equate to Freeza being stronger than Gohan. Whether Freeza could have beaten Gohan at full power is left ambiguous.
Noah wrote:
jplaya2023 wrote:17's motivation is kinda odd for me...
In the manga still just he just wanting to have a boat?
Yes.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Lord Beerus wrote:
It can't. By the time they transformed, they were both fully putting on the act that Freeza had betrayed Universe 7 and that they were fighting at full power, when they weren't.
But even after that Kuririn says that Freeza probably would have betrayed them if Gohan didn't realize his plan which means that Freeza could have beaten Gohan for real if he wanted.
No, it doesn't. It just means that Freeza could have went full turncoat. That doesn't equate to Freeza being stronger than Gohan. Whether Freeza could have beaten Gohan at full power is left ambiguous.
I really doubt Freeza would foolishly get himself killed yet again, he must have been able to win if he was willing to try it.
Satan got Trump on speed dial. "Fake news."
Krillin needs a house cam, what's up with his Ki sensing?
"17 is still very powerful...If he were still our enemy I'd be very worried."
This line alone should justify how 17 is in the upper echelon. Even with god powers 17 is something to fret over.
17 hearing Goku's voice while inside of Cell isn't strange. However I thought it would of been better if he heard Goku's voice when using the Genki dama to finish off Buu when speaking ot the earth. Or was it Vegeta's and Satan's voice the only thing earth heard?
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Doctor. wrote:
He says he doesn't have the time for it.
I can't believe Goku would waste a Super DB wish on that when he could gather the Earth or Namek sets in an instant.
I don't think Goku really cares.
Eventually he's going to have to screw 17 over once he decides he wants to wish the other universes back. Also, he's likely going to make the same promise when he meets Freeza as well.
