"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Totamo
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Totamo » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:16 pm

Whatever wrote:
Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

It seems to me like Toriyama wanted Goku to be responsible to show the 'poison' part of his character but then Toei/Toyotaro or even Toriyama himself thought it was too much and got cold feet on the matter.

Toriyama doesn't get cold feet.

Is he being edited?

Are we going to get an interview saying his old editors are bullying him again?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Kanassa » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:25 pm

Totamo wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

It seems to me like Toriyama wanted Goku to be responsible to show the 'poison' part of his character but then Toei/Toyotaro or even Toriyama himself thought it was too much and got cold feet on the matter.

Toriyama doesn't get cold feet.

Is he being edited?

Are we going to get an interview saying his old editors are bullying him again?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Whatever » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:28 pm

Totamo wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

It seems to me like Toriyama wanted Goku to be responsible to show the 'poison' part of his character but then Toei/Toyotaro or even Toriyama himself thought it was too much and got cold feet on the matter.

Toriyama doesn't get cold feet.

Is he being edited?

Are we going to get an interview saying his old editors are bullying him again?

More like he changed his mind but i am sure Toei got cold feet on matter,you can see from the exhibition matches that they were writing Goku like a villain and then they realised they went too far with it,so they wrote other characters to be repeating over and over again how it is not Goku's fault.

Now if only his old editors bullied him into having Kid trunks absorb Goten like Piccolo absorbed Nail that would be perfect.
Bonus points if Trunks can morph into Gotenks at will after the absorption.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Lionel » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:32 pm

Goku is the same man who consciously devised the morally questionable scheme to deprive everyone of their memories of Buu murdering them all just so Buu's "purified" component can coexist amongst them. Whatever moral barometer Goku uses to dictate his actions, they clearly seem to lack the prospective consideration of those around him. I know this subject has been touched upon previously, but Buu will always represent a potential danger to the world and its populace. No matter how much Goku feels that he and Mr Satan might be able to reign Buu in, Buu will inevitably outlive them all. Who's left to prevent him from having his way with the world if he gets the urge to do something rebellious? We've already caught a glimpse or two of Buu's instinctual reaction to situations being to kill whatever it is that's posing a challenge to him.

Zeno's intention of erasing the universes might fall under the same category of moral negligence for Goku, assuming the debate and contemplation of erasure was originally set to go on for millions of years. We probably need some more context to understand what the Zenos had in mind originally and whether Goku pushed the timetable up or not.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby HeroR » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:53 pm

Whatever wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Whatever wrote:It seems to me like Toriyama wanted Goku to be responsible to show the 'poison' part of his character but then Toei/Toyotaro or even Toriyama himself thought it was too much and got cold feet on the matter.

Toriyama doesn't get cold feet.

Is he being edited?

Are we going to get an interview saying his old editors are bullying him again?

More like he changed his mind but i am sure Toei got cold feet on matter,you can see from the exhibition matches that they were writing Goku like a villain and then they realised they went too far with it,so they wrote other characters to be repeating over and over again how it is not Goku's fault.

Now if only his old editors bullied him into having Kid trunks absorb Goten like Piccolo absorbed Nail that would be perfect.
Bonus points if Trunks can morph into Gotenks at will after the absorption.


The script is written months in advance, so they wouldn't change their mind last minute. And since four universes being excluded is in both versions, it's safe to assume it's Toriyama's idea.

And it needs to be repeated since fans still blame Goku despite everything.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Lord Frieza » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:23 pm

Got a good look at most of the fight up till Belmod's punting of Sidra.

I dont read japanese but Whis talks a lot while Beerus fights. While power plays a part I cant help but think skill dose to. Sidra's barrior is of the instant kind but it still takes power to hold of Beeru's attack since Beerus is taking this seirusly. Mosco was strong enough to hold Beerus down for a bit, Beerus had to use his arms and legs to get free and it was the punchs of 3 GoD that dropped the robot. Beerus only hit Champa once as a distraction and hide using Mosco's big body. Given that the fight not over yet, Belmod's character development and the normal rules of dragon ball, at least one of these guys is going to start giving Beerus a much harder fight befor this is over.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby OLKv3 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:43 pm

Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

Uh this is the exact same thing in the anime. Grand Priest says Zeno was already planning to erase the universes before Goku came with the idea of a tournament.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Totamo » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:01 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

Uh this is the exact same thing in the anime. Grand Priest says Zeno was already planning to erase the universes before Goku came with the idea of a tournament.

No it didn't and you know it didn't. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had 50+ threads about Goku is the villain and then 50+ threads about people saying that line was just meant to absolve him of responsibility.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Sandubadear » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:12 pm

Totamo wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:
Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

Uh this is the exact same thing in the anime. Grand Priest says Zeno was already planning to erase the universes before Goku came with the idea of a tournament.

No it didn't and you know it didn't. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had 50+ threads about Goku is the villain and then 50+ threads about people saying that line was just meant to absolve him of responsibility.

The difference is that in the anime we only have the Grand Priest's word that they wanted to erase 8 universes and people like to make angels into villains for some reason. In general the situation is exactly the same except we know for sure Zen'ou is the one who had the idea to erase the universes.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Totamo » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:20 pm

Sandubadear wrote:
Totamo wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:Uh this is the exact same thing in the anime. Grand Priest says Zeno was already planning to erase the universes before Goku came with the idea of a tournament.

No it didn't and you know it didn't. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had 50+ threads about Goku is the villain and then 50+ threads about people saying that line was just meant to absolve him of responsibility.

The difference is that in the anime we only have the Grand Priest's word that they wanted to erase 8 universes and people like to make angels into villains for some reason. In general the situation is exactly the same except we know for sure Zen'ou is the one who had the idea to erase the universes.

That difference is huge, man.'
'

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Sandubadear » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:26 pm

Totamo wrote:That difference is huge, man.'
'

How?
"The life is the hardest video games of ever. Because you have only one life and the powers are kinda lame. And sometimes a stage takes years"

"The life is a game, the objective of the game is trying to find the objective of the game, and then, finish the game"
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby OLKv3 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:26 pm

Totamo wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:
Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.


So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.




Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

Uh this is the exact same thing in the anime. Grand Priest says Zeno was already planning to erase the universes before Goku came with the idea of a tournament.

No it didn't and you know it didn't. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had 50+ threads about Goku is the villain and then 50+ threads about people saying that line was just meant to absolve him of responsibility.

wtf yes it did
Like we had them say it TWICE. He says it at the exhibition match, and then Whis is all "see? Son Goku actually saved everyone"
Then they repeat it at the ToP, where the other gods talk about how they're still going to target Goku even though he saved them and gave the universes a fighting chance

People are arguing it because people are dumb.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Miracles » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:35 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Totamo wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:Uh this is the exact same thing in the anime. Grand Priest says Zeno was already planning to erase the universes before Goku came with the idea of a tournament.

No it didn't and you know it didn't. Otherwise, we wouldn't have had 50+ threads about Goku is the villain and then 50+ threads about people saying that line was just meant to absolve him of responsibility.

wtf yes it did
Like we had them say it TWICE. He says it at the exhibition match, and then Whis is all "see? Son Goku actually saved everyone"
Then they repeat it at the ToP, where the other gods talk about how they're still going to target Goku even though he saved them and gave the universes a fighting chance

People are arguing it because people are dumb.

Totamo wrote:According to twitter, the 2 zenos were already discussing reducing the universe to 4 before Goku even got there.
So Goku, isn't even remotely responsible.
Toriyama, what did you want here? This is nowhere near the same thing. Like I knew the plotlines were vague now I don't even think they are outlines.

Just things he wants to happen.

OLKv3 is right Totamo. The higher ups pondering to waste universe's was in the anime too.
The female goddess even praises Goku for the idea cause they get a chance at survival now instead of being arbitrarily erased.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Namz » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:52 pm

It is still Goku's fault.

The two Zenos are talking about destroying the universes. Implying that one Zeno wouldn't have had the same idea. Everything's fine in Trunks timeline so it's obvious the thing that started the problem is that there are two Zenos instead of one.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Legion » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:01 pm

Quitela is kinda excited to settle the hierarchy of the Hakaishin in the match. After all, he's the only one who defeated Beerus...


Beerus retorts that he's never been defeated in combat! That was only an arm wrestling match!


Vermoud reveals the last emergency summons was because of Beerus nearly resulting in all the universes being destroyed.


Before Shin became a Kaioshin, Zeno called them all together for a game of hide and seek throughout all the universes.


Beerus fell asleep for 50 years while hiding, resulting in the competition being canceled and upsetting Zeno.


Goku is surprised Beerus is doing so well., but Whis says he's getting to the "body reacts instinctively" teachings in practice.


The Hakaishin who wins will be granted a prize by Zeno, while any who don't fight all out will be erased on the spot.


Quitela? seriously? :roll: and about the mortal that a God can't defeat? he can't be in U4.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby perucho1990 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:02 pm

Beerus retorts that he's never been defeated in combat! That was only an arm wrestling match!

No way, U4 has the so called strongest mortal? Who could it be?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Legion » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:05 pm

perucho1990 wrote:Beerus retorts that he's never been defeated in combat! That was only an arm wrestling match!

No way, U4 has the so called strongest mortal? Who could it be?

Nah, come on. the strongest in the tournament is Jiren. This is just different from the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby TheMikado » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:08 pm

Namz wrote:It is still Goku's fault.

The two Zenos are talking about destroying the universes. Implying that one Zeno wouldn't have had the same idea. Everything's fine in Trunks timeline so it's obvious the thing that started the problem is that there are two Zenos instead of one.


This is also true but is wait to see what the manga says. Either way I have a feeling this is still going to culminate into it being Goku's fault, he just looks less guilty in th manga at the present is all.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby perucho1990 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:08 pm

But then either Toei or Toyotaro went against the outline.

if Toriyama says that Quitela is the one that defeated Beerus in the arm wrestling match then so it must be.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Postby Lord Frieza » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:09 pm

Wow wow wow hold on a sec.....Quitela the yellow rat is the guy who bested Beerus at arm wrestling! HAHA poor Beerus is never gonna live that down :lol:.

Hold on dose this mean that sll this build up with Universe 11 is just a giant red hering! Are Universe 4 the real threat of the ToP!
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