"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[prince212]

This is just a boring start to the Arc. If this didn't have Dragonball characters I wouldn't be intrigued enough to read a third chapter of this arc.

Of course without dragon ball characters nobody will be intrigued, arcs are supposed to fit with previous introductions and building up .
Would you be intrigued in T.o.P arc , broly movie or any super arc. Not having db characters?
Boring start ... respectable, but certainly an unpopular opinion judging overall reactions.

[TKA]

This is just a boring start to the Arc. If this didn't have Dragonball characters I wouldn't be intrigued enough to read a third chapter of this arc.

Of course without dragon ball characters nobody will be intrigued, arcs are supposed to fit with previous introductions and building up .
Would you be intrigued in T.o.P arc , broly movie or any super arc. Not having db characters?
Boring start ... respectable, but certainly an unpopular opinion judging overall reactions.

I don't like the Tournament of Power.

The point was my familiarity with the franchise is the only reason I'm reading and not out of a desire to see what's next. Even the Tournament of Power was better at that.

A twist desperately needs to happen next chapter or this won't be anything more than the typical Toei movie.

[prince212]

A twist desperately needs to happen next chapter or this won't be anything more than the typical Toei movie.

Agree with that , and I’m afraid next chapter might just end with goku and vegeta defeated and they’ll leave the twist for the chapter after the next . I feel myself hungry for more than just here is the villain , beat him .(Toei ) , let’s see if that will be delivered soon , it’s about time

[PFM18]

Battle of Gods - God of destruction wakes up. Super Saiyan God prophecy. He beats up Super Saiyan 3 Goku in an instant.

Couldn't this more or less be framed the same way with this arc?

"World eating villain gets released, has immense magic powers."

Outside of actually beating one of the character's easily like Beerus did, it's the same thing. (And I'm sure that will happen soon so it's pretty inconsequential) The fact that Moro is a character with lesser battle power but amazing magic is unique and interesting in and of itself, and then add the other aspects to him and he already makes some other villains seem boring in comparison and we are only 3 chapters in.

Super in general doesn't seem to care much for the twists and turns of old; what you see is what you get.

You can't be serious

[Miracles]

I like the start of this arc. The fact that Dai Kaioshin is even being brought back up from the previous canon to be extracted from Buu opens the gate for possible diversity. It maybe that enormous Ki won't win the day and magic might. Merus is also a mystery as Vegeta is very skeptical of this guy. His ki can't even be sensed. Is he an android? Not to mention more revelation on what light's Moro's fire will surely bring in some kind of "WHOA" moment. The arc is slowly getting into the fat of the plot here. Slower than the usual pacing of past arcs but I believe this welcomes sundry possibilities.

[TKA]

Couldn't this more or less be framed the same way with this arc?

Therein lies the obvious problem, no? Battle of Gods did it first.

[PFM18]

Couldn't this more or less be framed the same way with this arc?

Therein lies the obvious problem, no? Battle of Gods did it first.

Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.

[TKA]

Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.

That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.

[PFM18]

Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.

That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.

see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.

[Marlowe89]

see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.

Didn't anyone teach you not to throw stones from glass houses? Just six posts ago you replied to me with a pointless "You can't be serious" instead of clarifying why you disagree.

If you're interested in having a discussion, don't leave useless remarks like that. It's dishonest and it muddies the conversation.

[PFM18]

see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.

Didn't anyone teach you not to throw stones from glass houses? Just six posts ago you replied to me with a pointless "You can't be serious" instead of clarifying why you disagree.

If you're interested in having a discussion, don't leave useless remarks like that. It's dishonest and it muddies the conversation.

Well, fair point about my comment, probably was inappropriate.(although could have been a distasteful joke given the comment you made) Still doesn't excuse his comment that was painfully akin to "yeah well you're wrong" when I pointed out to him that his logic could be applied elsewhere in the series and the same criticism could be posed.

[Miracles]

Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.

That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.

see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.

I think what TKA is expressing [Correct me when I'm wrong TKA] is that he is not so much concerned with the reused plot format. However, there would usually be some kind of twist in them. He is waiting for the story to take a drastic turn. He used examples with Radditz showing up but a ground breaking revelation was revealed that Goku was an alien and the villain was his brother. One of my all time favorites was this mysterious Super Saiyan showing up casually hacking Freeza only to find out he is from the future and the arc tied back to the red ribbon army. I believe that is what he is trying to get across, so far nothing has "awed" from a narrative standpoint. Mysteries about our characters are still under the rug.

[Shaddy]

I'm pretty sure the heart of this issue is that Moro as of right now has no charm as a villain and has shown us nothing impressive or unique compared to any other villains, and the start of this arc is just boring and disjointed so far. I don't think this is particularly surprising, as Toyotaro has had this issue a lot over the course of the manga as a whole. Lots of points just don't have the impact or atmosphere that they should, I think it's a lot more noticeable here because it's entirely new, and for all we know, Toyotaro-exclusive. This guy certainly feels more like something Toyo would have written in his AF series than the kind of villains Toriyama usually comes up with.

[Miracles]

I really hope this isn't a Toyo exclusive written arc with Toriyama just checking the plot and adding input here and there.

[mahakaishin1991]

I'm pretty sure the heart of this issue is that Moro as of right now has no charm as a villain and has shown us nothing impressive or unique compared to any other villains, and the start of this arc is just boring and disjointed so far. I don't think this is particularly surprising, as Toyotaro has had this issue a lot over the course of the manga as a whole. Lots of points just don't have the impact or atmosphere that they should, I think it's a lot more noticeable here because it's entirely new, and for all we know, Toyotaro-exclusive. This guy certainly feels more like something Toyo would have written in his AF series than the kind of villains Toriyama usually comes up with.

He's a straight up wizard goat man, doesnt appear to have some BS regen ability. That's a first in Dragonball for a long time. Most characters end up being 'hurrdurr regen'

and he's only been in one chapter so lets not kid ourselves about how long he's had to compare to characters who had significantly longer publication histories.

A lot of this is subjective. I didnt find this boring or disjointed. I'm actually more curious about this arc and its potential than I have been for a long time. Just how much has Moro damaged the universe? How do these screaming souls he has fit into the universe and the afterlife?

I'm probably just a bit sick of tournaments in Super though, and Zamasu's arc payoff was so utterly unimpressive to me that I was annoyed. Future Trunks amounted to nothing, and Black, sadly, didn't live up to the potential he had by the story arc dropping the ball for both Zamasu and Black with fusion.

[Meshack]

What I liked:

Some decent action in this chapter. The ATATATATAs are notably absent and I really liked the weird outmaneuver-ish choreography between Moro and Vegeta. I'll probably never get tired of seeing our Saiyan duo gauge their opponents through good old-fashioned transformation cycling.

I'm going to echo what others have said about Moro's full design looking like something Toyotaro came up with instead of Toriyama. However, it might be one of the few supposedly non-Toriyama character designs I don't instantly despise. From anyone else I would have expected an edgy, generic monster like Hatchiyack or Hildegarn for a main baddie, but Toyotaro went with a wrinkly and frail-looking sorcerer type villain instead. That's pretty neat, even if not necessarily unheard of in other fiction. I think it also brings some sense of aesthetic variety to the "canon" stories.

Vegeta wanting to kinda make amends with the Namekians is a great moment and perfectly in-character for him at this stage of continuity. It's a nice reminder of how far he's come since his introduction in the series, addresses a hanging thread from the Freeza arc, and feels like a natural extension of the Boo arc's climax where he was also careful to include everyone he personally killed while reviving the Earthings. Little dialogue snippets like these always make me happy that the manga continues to understand Dragon Ball's characters so well.

What I didn't like:

I'd call this one a directorial nitpick, but having Goku and Vegeta stand there in preparation for the bad guy's spaceship landing is awfully familiar after watching Broly. Maybe too familiar. It just feels like a recycled beat, considering this is supposed to take place right after that story.

Overall:

For a setup oriented chapter, I thought it was far more enjoyable than last month's. There's actually some progression here now that the villain has made his move, so it'll be fun to see where the plot takes us. Still a lot of build-up, so hopefully the payoff is good.

They really weren’t preparing. Gokou can literally teleport instantly to someone’s location. They got there when Moro got there

[TKA]

I think what TKA is expressing [Correct me when I'm wrong TKA] is that he is not so much concerned with the reused plot format. However, there would usually be some kind of twist in them. He is waiting for the story to take a drastic turn. He used examples with Radditz showing up but a ground breaking revelation was revealed that Goku was an alien and the villain was his brother. One of my all time favorites was this mysterious Super Saiyan showing up casually hacking Freeza only to find out he is from the future and the arc tied back to the red ribbon army. I believe that is what he is trying to get across, so far nothing has "awed" from a narrative standpoint. Mysteries about our characters are still under the rug.

Correct on all counts. I feel like I more than adequately explained my position, so I'm glad someone saw that.

Also, it doesn't matter if concepts are reused or not. It's how you execute that matters. So far, this has been a reused concept that's been played pretty straight. Hence why I keep saying next chapter needs to do something different. If this manga was 15 pages like the old Dragonball, we'd be 7-8 chapters into the current arc, and at this point lots of stuff had happened in previous arcs.

[PFM18]

That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.

see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.

I think what TKA is expressing [Correct me when I'm wrong TKA] is that he is not so much concerned with the reused plot format. However, there would usually be some kind of twist in them. He is waiting for the story to take a drastic turn. He used examples with Radditz showing up but a ground breaking revelation was revealed that Goku was an alien and the villain was his brother. One of my all time favorites was this mysterious Super Saiyan showing up casually hacking Freeza only to find out he is from the future and the arc tied back to the red ribbon army. I believe that is what he is trying to get across, so far nothing has "awed" from a narrative standpoint. Mysteries about our characters are still under the rug.

See, the problem with that is that an example he gave with BoG, follows almost exactly the same way in terms of the premise that he praised it for. If BoG is an example of something that is praised for it's twist, then so should this arc. And I brought this to his attention, and his response was akin to "Yeah, but that's the problem! they did it first!"(aka he says the reuse is the problem) and then all of a sudden reusing a format is not related to his point and addressing it constitutes a "gross misunderstanding."

[AnimeNation101]

I really hope this isn't a Toyo exclusive written arc with Toriyama just checking the plot and adding input here and there.

Why? Whats wrong with this being a Toyo-only arc?

[PFM18]

I really hope this isn't a Toyo exclusive written arc with Toriyama just checking the plot and adding input here and there.

Why? Whats wrong with this being a Toyo-only arc?

....that it's not Toriyama. If it is exclusively written by Toyo, and ideas aren't being given by Toriyama or the narrative isn't being written by Toriyama in any way, then that's an issue.