Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Goku has to be a lot stronger than he was in the Buu saga because of his training with Whis.

Krillin was able to keep track of Super Saiyan Goku fighting Cell but he was unable to keep track of Goku fighting First Form Frost and Goku was severely holding back.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Goku has to be a lot stronger than he was in the Buu saga because of his training with Whis.

Krillin was able to keep track of Super Saiyan Goku fighting Cell but he was unable to keep track of Goku fighting First Form Frost and Goku was severely holding back.

There's also the 3 year RoSAT training.

[MisteryOne]

So, in raw power, Cell > Hit? Manga SS Goku doesn't seem noticeably stronger than his Buu arc counterpart. Plus in raw power wouldn't that actually make Hit weaker than Magetta, who seemed superior to SS Vegeta? That doesn't seem right.

Even trough at this point it was probably a mistranslation, I recall Vados said Frost was either the strongest member of the team in raw power or in close combat, so it would make sense. Hit was supressed anyway.

[Bullza]

Even trough at this point it was probably a mistranslation, I recall Vados said Frost was either the strongest member of the team in raw power or in close combat, so it would make sense. Hit was supressed anyway.

That's right! I just checked the Viz translation and Vados says "He's the strongest warrior in our universe". She says it when he's using his third form

There's no reaction from her when he transforms again so I assume she means in general.

That would make Frost stronger than Magetta though that wouldn't make sense for the anime nor do I recall Vados saying anything about Frost in the anime.

He'd be stronger than Base Cabba so the idea that Goku didn't need to transform at all against Frost would be untrue. Obviously it wouldn't be including Super Saiyan Cabba into that.

I suppose it would have to mean he was stronger than suppressed Hit too which may or may not make sense.

[RandomGuy96]

Goku has to be a lot stronger than he was in the Buu saga because of his training with Whis.

Not a lot.

Krillin was able to keep track of Super Saiyan Goku fighting Cell but he was unable to keep track of Goku fighting First Form Frost and Goku was severely holding back.

You seriously don't want to play this game. Who's able to keep track of certain movements has never been remotely consistent. Remember when normal humans could watch the fights with no issue back in the Buu arc?

Even trough at this point it was probably a mistranslation, I recall Vados said Frost was either the strongest member of the team in raw power or in close combat, so it would make sense. Hit was supressed anyway.

That's right! I just checked the Viz translation and Vados says "He's the strongest warrior in our universe". She says it when he's using his third form

There's no reaction from her when he transforms again so I assume she means in general.

That would make Frost stronger than Magetta though that wouldn't make sense for the anime nor do I recall Vados saying anything about Frost in the anime.

He'd be stronger than Base Cabba so the idea that Goku didn't need to transform at all against Frost would be untrue. Obviously it wouldn't be including Super Saiyan Cabba into that.

I suppose it would have to mean he was stronger than suppressed Hit too which may or may not make sense.

That... makes no sense. Magetta is quite clearly stronger than Frost when you compare their performances against Vegeta.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I am just going to repost this. I am curious as to other people's thoughts on how I ranked SSBlue Goku's growth throughout the story so far. I am also starting to feel that Goku's skill and instincts allowed him to counter Hit the second time around. Hit was probably weaker than SSB KK×10 Goku during the tournament, but Goku needed that power to overcome the Time-Skip.

SSB Goku (RoF Saga): 1
Golden Frieza: 1.3
SSB Goku (U6 Saga): 1.5
SSB KK×10 Goku (U6 Saga): 15
Hit (U6 Saga): 4.0
SSB Goku (Copy-Vegeta Saga): 1.7
SSB Goku (Start of F. Trunks Saga): 1.8
SSR Goku Black: 2.3
SSB Goku (Rage Boost, F. Trunks Saga): 2.5
SSRage F. Trunks: 2.5
SSR Goku Black (Scimitar): 3.0
SSB Vegeta (Post-RoSaT, F. Trunks Saga): 4.0
SSB Goku (Zenkai, F. Trunks Saga): 4.0
SSR Goku Black (Scythe): 4.5
Merged Zamasu (Halo): 7.0
SSB Vegeta and SSRage F. Trunks (Galick Gun): 6.5
SSB Goku (Breaking Arms Kamehameha): 7.5
SSB KK×2 Goku (Broken Arms Kick): 8.0
Merged Zamasu (Rage): 8.0
SSB Vegito (F. Trunks Saga): 8.5
Merged Zamasu (Weakened): 7.5
SSRage F. Trunks (Spirit Bomb Sword): 8.0
Hit (Hit Saga): 4.5
SSB Goku (Hit Saga): 4.5

[Bullza]

Who's able to keep track of certain movements has never been remotely consistent.

Well that's more an issue with the regular humans. I don't recall the Z Fighters ever having trouble seeing fights though. Tien could see Goku fight Android 19 and they could all see Goku fight Cell.

But then in Battle of Gods, Krillin couldn't see Goku fight Beerus. In the Resurrection F saga Gohan couldn't see Goku fight Frieza.

Then in the manga there's the example I mentioned but there's also the one where Goku is hitting Botamo so fast they can't see it and they couldn't see SSJ Goku fight Hit either.

So I dunno, they could see them fight just fine in DBZ but ever since God/Saiyan Beyond God came about they've had trouble seeing them sometimes. I don't know if that's inconsistent.

That... makes no sense. Magetta is quite clearly stronger than Frost when you compare their performances against Vegeta.

Well I don't think there's anything wrong with Frost being stronger than Magetta in the manga. Magetta just seemed really durable more than anything.

Yeah he was obviously stronger in the anime but I don't think Vados said Frost was the strongest warrior in the anime so that's ok.

In any case that was exactly what Vados said and she picked the team so she should know. The part that doesn't really make sense is that SSJ Goku beat Frost quite handily but seemed about even with Hit but then they did say Goku's energy was dropping fast.

[ssbgoku]

I know it was discussed many times over. However I would like to know what is your opinion about how buu arc ss3 goku compare to gotenks.I heard that most believe pre rosat ss gotenks is around him and post rosat base gotenks is stronger(how getting x50 sounds really hardly to believe). That why I came up with this conclusion based on these conditions:
- Piccolo was optimistic
- pre rosat ss gotenks was cocky so he was supressed while piccolo managed to only grasp that a bit of power he was letting off as he escaped just few seconds ago.
- Ss3 goku was holding back against fat buu so he compared his supressed state with ss gotenks.
- Lastly maybe goku got zenkai after his battle with vegeta but due to being dead it was delayed and only took effect once he got life from elder kai...

Maybe that why he seemed stronger then or just Akira retconnrd ss3 goku to be post ss rosat gotenks level at least. This is how I see it

Post rosat ss gotenks(full power) > full power ss3 goku > pre rosat ss gotenks (full power) > post rosat base gotenks (full power) ~ pre rosat supressed ss gotenks(expected fp) ~ supressed ss3 goku > pre rosat base gotenks

What do you think guys ?

[ekrolo2]

Imagine if a future episode "confirms" Tien is stronger than Krillin. I know a certain user on here who'd flip shit about that

[Bullza]

I am just going to repost this. I am curious as to other people's thoughts on how I ranked SSBlue Goku's growth throughout the story so far.

Hit in terms of power was weaker than SSJB Goku without any Kaioken so he should probably be less than a 1.4. He could actually be weaker than Golden Frieza really.

I'd probably put SSJ Rage Trunks closer to SSJR Black (Scythe). That 0.5 gap is what you gave to first appearence of SSJR Black over SSJB Goku and they were a lot closer together than that.

Merged Zamasu should be stronger than SSJB Goku using the Kaioken x10 because I think it was both Vegeta and the Supreme Kai who said something about never feeling Ki like it or it was the most powerful Ki they'd felt.

I'd have SSJB Goku above Hit at the end there too as he did overpower him.

[Hugo Boss]

I know it was discussed many times over. However I would like to know what is your opinion about how buu arc ss3 goku compare to gotenks.

Counting the original story and the guidebooks, SS Gotenks seems to be near Goku's level, since both were supposed to be enough to handle the fat Boo. I think they are still comparable when they are both SS3, since Gotenks is said to have surpassed Vegeta as well. Though, Gotenks probably has the edge in power over Goku in this case.

[ssbgoku]

I know it was discussed many times over. However I would like to know what is your opinion about how buu arc ss3 goku compare to gotenks.

Counting the original story and the guidebooks, SS Gotenks seems to be near Goku's level, since both were supposed to be enough to handle the fat Boo. I think they are still comparable when they are both SS3, since Gotenks is said to have surpassed Vegeta as well. Though, Gotenks probably has the edge in power over Goku in this case.

Ok, so you mean end of buu arc ss3 goku >= post rosat ss gotenks.

At least I can see ss3 gotenks being at least 4 times stronger then ss3 goku.

[RehBeh]

I know it was discussed many times over. However I would like to know what is your opinion about how buu arc ss3 goku compare to gotenks.

Counting the original story and the guidebooks, SS Gotenks seems to be near Goku's level, since both were supposed to be enough to handle the fat Boo. I think they are still comparable when they are both SS3, since Gotenks is said to have surpassed Vegeta as well. Though, Gotenks probably has the edge in power over Goku in this case.

Gotenks is stronger than Goku. Gotenks fought evenly with Evil Boo while Goku was scared to even fight with him.

[Animelover5487]

Is at fair to put Ramushi at Super Saiyan 2 tier due to Gowasu's statement about SSJ2 Goku being as strong as a GoD?

[Ki Breaker]

Is at fair to put Ramushi at Super Saiyan 2 tier due to Gowasu's statement about SSJ2 Goku being as strong as a GoD?

We don't know for certain which god of destruction he was referring to as berrus took offense to that, it very well could be the case though

[ahill1]

So upon reading the DBS manga, I present you guys my own list:


Numbers from Z as reference:

Goku SSJ3 : 72,000,000,000

Super Boo : 600,000,000,000

Gotenks SSJ3 : 600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 900,000,000,000

Boo-Gotenks : 1,200,000,000,000

Boo-Gohan : 1,500,000,000,000

Vegetto SSJ : 2,500,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 20,000,000,000,000



Battle of Gods recap

Android #18 : 450,000,000

Piccolo : 3,500,000,000

Majin Boo : 26,000,000,000

Vegeta : 900,000,000
~SSJ : 9,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000
~SSJ2 + enranged : 1,200,000,000,000

Goku : 900,000,000
~SSJ : 9,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000
~SSJ3 : 90,000,000,000

Gotenks SSJ3 : 600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 900,000,000,000

Goku Super Saiya-jin God : 30,000,000,000,000

Beerus : ?

Whis : ?


Ressurection of F recap

Piccolo : 4,000,000,000

Son Gohan : 800,000,000
~SSJ : 8,000,000,000

Freeza (1st form) : 12,000,000,000
~2nd form (unseen) : 24,000,000,000
~3rd form (unseen) : 48,000,000,000
~final form : 3,000,000,000,000

Goku : 3,300,000,000,000
~SSJ : 8,250,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 12,375,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 25,000,000,000,000
~SSJ God : 60,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 110,000,000,000,000


Universe 6 Tournament

Botamo : 2,000,000,000,000

Piccolo : 7,000,000,000,000

Frost (1st form) : 3,000,000,000,000
~3rd form : 5,500,000,000,000
~final form : 10,000,000,000,000
~final form (weakened) : 7,500,000,000,000

Cabba/Kyabe : 4,500,000,000,000
~SSJ : 11,250,000,000,000

Magetta : 12,500,000,000,000

Vegeta : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 12,500,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 180,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue (less than 10%) : 14,000,000,000,000

Hit (initial) : 13,000,000,000,000
~full power : 100,000,000,000,000

Son Goku : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 12,500,000,000,000
~SSJ God : 90,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 180,000,000,000,000


Future Trunks, Kaioshin and Kibito vs Dabura and Babidi

Future Kibito : 120,000,000

Future Kaioshin : 4,250,000,000

Future Trunks (post Z sword) : 450,000,000
~SSJ : 4,500,000,000
~SSJ2 : 9,000,000,000

Future Dabura : 5,500,000,000



Black Goku and Zamasu

Kibito : 120,000,000

Zamasu : 135,000,000

Goku : 6,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 15,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 45,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks : 11,500,000,000,000
~SSJ : 28,750,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 43,125,000,000,000

Vegeta (post hax) 56,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 210,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 2,000,000,000,000,000

Black : 50,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 187,500,000,000,000
---post Zenkai
~SSJ2 : 2,250,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Rosé : 20,000,000,000,000,000

Goku SSJ Blue (I assume he got haxxed too) : 2,000,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000

Future Zamasu : 100,000,000,000,000

[TheUltimateNinja]

So upon reading the DBS manga, I present you guys my own list:


Numbers from Z as reference:

Goku SSJ3 : 72,000,000,000

Super Boo : 600,000,000,000

Gotenks SSJ3 : 600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 900,000,000,000

Boo-Gotenks : 1,200,000,000,000

Boo-Gohan : 1,500,000,000,000

Vegetto SSJ : 2,500,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 20,000,000,000,000



Battle of Gods recap

Android #18 : 450,000,000

Piccolo : 3,500,000,000

Majin Boo : 26,000,000,000

Vegeta : 900,000,000
~SSJ : 9,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000
~SSJ2 + enranged : 1,200,000,000,000

Goku : 900,000,000
~SSJ : 9,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000
~SSJ3 : 90,000,000,000

Gotenks SSJ3 : 600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 900,000,000,000

Goku Super Saiya-jin God : 30,000,000,000,000

Beerus : ?

Whis : ?


Ressurection of F recap

Piccolo : 4,000,000,000

Son Gohan : 800,000,000
~SSJ : 8,000,000,000

Freeza (1st form) : 12,000,000,000
~2nd form (unseen) : 24,000,000,000
~3rd form (unseen) : 48,000,000,000
~final form : 3,000,000,000,000

Goku : 3,300,000,000,000
~SSJ : 8,250,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 12,375,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 25,000,000,000,000
~SSJ God : 60,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 110,000,000,000,000


Universe 6 Tournament

Botamo : 2,000,000,000,000

Piccolo : 7,000,000,000,000

Frost (1st form) : 3,000,000,000,000
~3rd form : 5,500,000,000,000
~final form : 10,000,000,000,000
~final form (weakened) : 7,500,000,000,000

Cabba/Kyabe : 4,500,000,000,000
~SSJ : 11,250,000,000,000

Magetta : 12,500,000,000,000

Vegeta : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 12,500,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 180,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue (less than 10%) : 14,000,000,000,000

Hit (initial) : 13,000,000,000,000
~full power : 100,000,000,000,000

Son Goku : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 12,500,000,000,000
~SSJ God : 90,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 180,000,000,000,000


Future Trunks, Kaioshin and Kibito vs Dabura and Babidi

Future Kibito : 120,000,000

Future Kaioshin : 4,250,000,000

Future Trunks (post Z sword) : 450,000,000
~SSJ : 4,500,000,000
~SSJ2 : 9,000,000,000

Future Dabura : 5,500,000,000



Black Goku and Zamasu

Kibito : 120,000,000

Zamasu : 135,000,000

Goku : 6,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 15,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 45,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks : 11,500,000,000,000
~SSJ : 28,750,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 43,125,000,000,000

Vegeta (post hax) 56,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 210,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 2,000,000,000,000,000

Black : 50,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 187,500,000,000,000
---post Zenkai
~SSJ2 : 2,250,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Rosé : 20,000,000,000,000,000

Goku SSJ Blue (I assume he got haxxed too) : 2,000,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000

Future Zamasu : 100,000,000,000,000

Namek Freeza > BoG Goku.

[ahill1]

So upon reading the DBS manga, I present you guys my own list:


Numbers from Z as reference:

Goku SSJ3 : 72,000,000,000

Super Boo : 600,000,000,000

Gotenks SSJ3 : 600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 900,000,000,000

Boo-Gotenks : 1,200,000,000,000

Boo-Gohan : 1,500,000,000,000

Vegetto SSJ : 2,500,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 20,000,000,000,000



Battle of Gods recap

Android #18 : 450,000,000

Piccolo : 3,500,000,000

Majin Boo : 26,000,000,000

Vegeta : 900,000,000
~SSJ : 9,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000
~SSJ2 + enranged : 1,200,000,000,000

Goku : 900,000,000
~SSJ : 9,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000
~SSJ3 : 90,000,000,000

Gotenks SSJ3 : 600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan : 900,000,000,000

Goku Super Saiya-jin God : 30,000,000,000,000

Beerus : ?

Whis : ?


Ressurection of F recap

Piccolo : 4,000,000,000

Son Gohan : 800,000,000
~SSJ : 8,000,000,000

Freeza (1st form) : 12,000,000,000
~2nd form (unseen) : 24,000,000,000
~3rd form (unseen) : 48,000,000,000
~final form : 3,000,000,000,000

Goku : 3,300,000,000,000
~SSJ : 8,250,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 12,375,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 25,000,000,000,000
~SSJ God : 60,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 110,000,000,000,000


Universe 6 Tournament

Botamo : 2,000,000,000,000

Piccolo : 7,000,000,000,000

Frost (1st form) : 3,000,000,000,000
~3rd form : 5,500,000,000,000
~final form : 10,000,000,000,000
~final form (weakened) : 7,500,000,000,000

Cabba/Kyabe : 4,500,000,000,000
~SSJ : 11,250,000,000,000

Magetta : 12,500,000,000,000

Vegeta : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 12,500,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 180,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue (less than 10%) : 14,000,000,000,000

Hit (initial) : 13,000,000,000,000
~full power : 100,000,000,000,000

Son Goku : 5,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 12,500,000,000,000
~SSJ God : 90,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 180,000,000,000,000


Future Trunks, Kaioshin and Kibito vs Dabura and Babidi

Future Kibito : 120,000,000

Future Kaioshin : 4,250,000,000

Future Trunks (post Z sword) : 450,000,000
~SSJ : 4,500,000,000
~SSJ2 : 9,000,000,000

Future Dabura : 5,500,000,000



Black Goku and Zamasu

Kibito : 120,000,000

Zamasu : 135,000,000

Goku : 6,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 15,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 22,500,000,000,000
~SSJ3 : 45,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks : 11,500,000,000,000
~SSJ : 28,750,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 43,125,000,000,000

Vegeta (post hax) 56,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 210,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Blue : 2,000,000,000,000,000

Black : 50,000,000,000,000
~SSJ2 : 187,500,000,000,000
---post Zenkai
~SSJ2 : 2,250,000,000,000,000
~SSJ Rosé : 20,000,000,000,000,000

Goku SSJ Blue (I assume he got haxxed too) : 2,000,000,000,000,000
~SSJ : 140,000,000,000,000

Future Zamasu : 100,000,000,000,000

Namek Freeza > BoG Goku.

That isn't stated in the manga, so I don't go with it. That's a manga-only power levels, then I just use the numbers from my Dragon Ball/Z power levels and apply that into the manga (I don't have Freeza > base Saiya-jins). There's no contradiction.

[TheUltimateNinja]

That isn't stated in the manga, so I don't go with it. That's a manga-only power levels, then I just use the numbers from my Dragon Ball/Z power levels and apply that into the manga (I don't have Freeza > base Saiya-jins). There's no contradiction.

It is in the manga. When Beerus says he's certain all Saiyans possess black hair, Whis explains that they have a transformation known as SSJ and Goku says that's exactly what it is. Then depending on the translation you use Beerus says he sees how Goku beat Freeza/it's no surprise that Goku beat Freeza, but that's all he can do.

[Noah]

Goku has to be a lot stronger than he was in the Buu saga because of his training with Whis.

There's also the 3 year RoSAT training.

So ignoring the God Base stuff how much strong do you guys have Goku and Vegeta compared to the Boo arc?