Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:01 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
Triggered Vegeta wrote:After Frieza transforms into his final form, Frieza asks Goku if he will transform into a super saiyan.

Goku's reply: Nah, I don't need to go that far.

This would imply that transforming into a Super Saiyan, would make him stronger than his God Base and not the other way around.

Either Goku was talking about ssgss or regular ssj... that's up to ya'll to decide.

If he was talking about regular ssj, this would mean Frost is stronger than Frieza, besides his Golden form.
Furthermore, the narrator said a form exceeding Super Saiyan God was needed to surpass the powered-up Freeza. So, you will have to decide if "powered-up" means his final or golden form too.
Hugo Boss, do you think you could give a spot in the episodes when the narrator said this? I'm curious, and I am having trouble finding it.
It's in Episode 25, minute 2. Also, something I took from the Fact Thread.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:01 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote: Furthermore, the narrator said a form exceeding Super Saiyan God was needed to surpass the powered-up Freeza. So, you will have to decide if "powered-up" means his final or golden form too.
Hugo Boss, do you think you could give a spot in the episodes when the narrator said this? I'm curious, and I am having trouble finding it.
It's in Episode 25, minute 2. Also, something I took from the Fact Thread.
After watching it, yeah, I'm pretty sure the narrator meant Golden Frieza. Goku thought he could win in his powered-up Base, yet he didn't realize Frieza was hiding his Golden form. He had to go SSB to beat Frieza's "hidden power."

Final Form Frieza was mentioning how he knew that Goku had beaten Majin Buu, but was even surprised by his power in Base. Frieza probably only knew of Fat Buu, the first one we saw.

This probably means that Base Goku and Final Form Frieza are a good bit above Fat Buu, which is why I put them at Super Buu level. They both then jump to above SSG Goku when they go SSB and Golden.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by RehBeh » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:46 am

Lord Frieza wrote:
Regardless of wither their a transformation or not, they are a powered up version of the original base character. And are the power ups a cannon part of dragon ball as a whole or just this game? Sorry if I'm being rude here but your comment has no bearing on my statement.

Well, your statement was that they are not "canon" at all which is not true. They are a thing in DB Heroes, an official product licenced by a company with the rights to use the DragonBall brand. It's not like AF or After the Future or whatever stupid name fans come up with during the early 2000's.

Even in Heroes only the hero avatars can reach those class-ups, It's not like it's a transformation for the species as a whole.

P.S. you weren't rude at all :thumbup:
GT wasn't that bad
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RehBeh wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:14 am

Bullza wrote: No that's false by Toriyama's own words. He uses it in the manga because it's a power that he lacks within himself, it's not fully merged with him, he has to personally transform into Super Saiyan God to reach that level of power. Otherwise as a Super Saiyan 3 he still doesn't have close to that level of power.

Nothing like what happened with the anime where the power did merge with his own so he wasnt weaker after the Super Saiyan God form disappeared which is why it was never seen again.

Manga - SSJG >>>> SSJ3

Anime - SSJG = "I didn't get weaker" SSJ

Good god, it is not that confusing, this is something that people were already aware of many months ago.
It's false by your own interpretation of Toriyama's words which is wrong. You were already given the correct interpretation, but you would rather be stubborn, so I'm just taking it as a concession. Toriyama said nothing about the movie portraying anything incorrectly. That's purely you stretching his words to the extreme, far beyond what was meant to be taken from them.

He doesn't lack the power within himself, otherwise he wouldn't be able to transform into it. You're trying too hard to argue pointless semantics.

Goku absorbed SSJG, noticed no difference after reverting back, yet SSJG remained supreme so you're wrong, period. Anything you say about it being a "mistake" is going to be taken as a concession, because once again, you are not part of Toei's staff. You keep saying this like it's not just your opinion.
Vados said that Frost was the strongest warrior, he's therefore stronger than Base Cabba.

Base Cabba is on par with Base Vegeta so he too is weaker than Frost.

Frost and Piccolo fought and it was a evenly matched fight with Piccolo saying he couldn't beat Frost but Frost couldn't beat him either. So if Piccolo is on Frost's level and Base Cabba and thus Base Vegeta are not then Piccolo is stronger than Base Vegeta and Goku as he was throughout DBZ.

He's obviously not thousands upon thousands of times stronger than Piccolo as they were made out to be in the Resurrection F saga.
Frost couldn't beat him because Piccolo was stalling to make him use his energy. They weren't "evenly matched".

Once again, I don't know where you got the idea that the Base Saiyans were thousands of times stronger than Piccolo at any point in the series, unless you have access to some official power level sheet that nobody else does.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:37 pm

It's false by your own interpretation of Toriyama's words which is wrong.
I gave you the only interpretation that there was. You gave me a completely fabricated interpretation of which you are the only person whose ever came up with it just to try and get it to fit with your other false interpretation of Super Saiyan Goku's power all whilst ignoring what was said.
He doesn't lack the power within himself, otherwise he wouldn't be able to transform into it.
He does lack it as that's why he is required to transform into a Super Saiyan God to have the power of a God. It is not a power that he has within himself constantly due to absorbing it into himself like how is portrayed in the anime.

Which is why it was never seen again in the anime. It's not complicated.
Frost couldn't beat him because Piccolo was stalling to make him use his energy. They weren't "evenly matched".
No that's not what was said. Piccolo was only said to have been fighting defensively. Piccolo was actually said to have been losing energy even faster than what Frost was. Neither was capable of defeating the other, they were evenly matched.
Once again, I don't know where you got the idea that the Base Saiyans were thousands of times stronger than Piccolo at any point in the series
If Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo, Super Saiyan Gohan is dozens of times stronger than Base Gohan, First Form Frieza is stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan, Final Form Frieza is a couope hundred to es stronger than First Form Frieza and Base Goku was stronger than that then he was thousands upon thousands of times stronger than Piccolo.

Yet Base Goku was weaker than Piccolo in the Universe 6 saga. The simple explanation for that being is because the Base Goku who fought Frieza was as strong as Super Saiyan God and the one Base Goku in the Universe 6 saga was not.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:34 pm

Bullza wrote: I gave you the only interpretation that there was. You gave me a completely fabricated interpretation of which you are the only person whose ever came up with it just to try and get it to fit with your other false interpretation of Super Saiyan Goku's power all whilst ignoring what was said.

He does lack it as that's why he is required to transform into a Super Saiyan God to have the power of a God. It is not a power that he has within himself constantly due to absorbing it into himself like how is portrayed in the anime.

Which is why it was never seen again in the anime. It's not complicated.

No that's not what was said. Piccolo was only said to have been fighting defensively. Piccolo was actually said to have been losing energy even faster than what Frost was. Neither was capable of defeating the other, they were evenly matched.

If Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo, Super Saiyan Gohan is dozens of times stronger than Base Gohan, First Form Frieza is stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan, Final Form Frieza is a couope hundred to es stronger than First Form Frieza and Base Goku was stronger than that then he was thousands upon thousands of times stronger than Piccolo.

Yet Base Goku was weaker than Piccolo in the Universe 6 saga. The simple explanation for that being is because the Base Goku who fought Frieza was as strong as Super Saiyan God and the one Base Goku in the Universe 6 saga was not.
The ritual transforms one into a Super Saiyan God, so yes that is the correct interpretation. You claiming that Goku turning into SSJG at the end of the film is a "mistake" is laughable since neither Toriyama or Toei said anything of the sort. I'm not the one making things up, you are.
The interviewer asked whether or not Goku would transform in the future and Toriyama stated that you only need to watch the film to understand, the same film in which he assumes SSJG after absorbing it, so the only thing apparent here is,
1. You're biased.
2. You don't know what you're talking about.
Goku in the manga can assume the form, so he has the power of God, period. There is no further distinction on an official level. Concession accepted on this because you won't stop spewing your opinon as if it's fact. You have provided zero evidence that Toei and Toriyama changed their minds on how God ki supposedly works. I asked for a written statement from either of them. You provided nothing.

Again, stop with the pointless semantics. Piccolo was told to waste Frost's energy before he fought. There is no difference between fighting defensively and stalling in this context. They weren't evenly matched power wise, so Vegeta transforming against Frost means nothing. There is no indication of what kind of boost Freeza currently gets from transforming, so your chain is moot.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:08 pm

The ritual transforms one into a Super Saiyan God, so yes that is the correct interpretation.
Which again is not what he said. He said he'd absorbed that power, made it his own power and so does not need to transform into it because of that.

In the manga he transforms into it because he needs to because he didn't absorb the power and make it his own.

You are constantly looking for some work around to the very simple things that are said and shown. They said he'd absorbed it and that's why he wasn't weaker so you say "Oh well no what he actually meant is he just doesn't have a weaker power source...".

The manga shows an image with a silhouette of God behind an attacking Base Goku showing he'd got that power due to absorbing it so you say "Oh well no what this image shows actually means this and this".

Beerus says he's got stronger so you say "Oh well he might just be referring to this and this."

The Narrator and Vegeta say he's surpassed the level of Gods so you say "Oh well what they meant when they said that was..."

Goku says outright he's a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God so you say "Oh but when he says he's got the power of God what he actually means is..."

You're activatly trying to find other false meaning to very simple explanations all so it fits with that one comment from Beerus which he said to an unconscious Goku whilst also just plain making up things like "God essence" which has never been mentioned anywhere.
Goku in the manga can assume the form, so he has the power of God, period.
Correct, when he assumes the form he had power of a God. In the anime he doesn't assume the form because he already has the power of a God.
Piccolo was told to waste Frost's energy before he fought. There is no difference between fighting defensively and stalling in this context. They weren't evenly matched power wise, so Vegeta transforming against Frost means nothing.
No again that also wasn't said. Goku said that Frost fighting Piccolo could lose him to lose a little energy. He never told Piccolo to make him waste his energy nor was that said to be Piccolo's intention.

Piccolo just fought defensively causing the two of them to lose energy naturally and neither was able to beat the other. Piccolo fought on an even matchup against someone who was stronger than Base Vegeta which is completely contradictory with the previous saga showing them being miles upon miles ahead of Piccolo.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:16 pm

Bullza wrote: No again that also wasn't said. Goku said that Frost fighting Piccolo could lose him to lose a little energy. He never told Piccolo to make him waste his energy nor was that said to be Piccolo's intention.

Piccolo just fought defensively causing the two of them to lose energy naturally and neither was able to beat the other. Piccolo fought on an even matchup against someone who was stronger than Base Vegeta which is completely contradictory with the previous saga showing them being miles upon miles ahead of Piccolo.
After Piccolo asked Frost to hold back, Frost replies by saying that he didnt have the energy to kill him, meaning Goku weakened him so much that Piccolo could have a chance against him.

Frost was probably still stronger than him, thats why Piccolo was very defensive, but both were around the same ballpark :think:

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:40 pm

perucho1990 wrote:
Bullza wrote:Frost was probably still stronger than him, thats why Piccolo was very defensive, but both were around the same ballpark :think:
Yeah in the anime Frost made a comment about how he'd lost enough power fighting against Goku that he'd no longer be able to accidentally kill him. I think there was some comment about how he couldn't really control his power in that form either.

There was nothing like that said in the manga though. Piccolo was also supposed to been able to defeat Frost in the anime because of the Beam Cannon but said he couldn't have beaten him in the manga.

Frost would definitely be the stronger of the two but not by any ridiculous margin.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:35 am

RehBeh wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
Regardless of wither their a transformation or not, they are a powered up version of the original base character. And are the power ups a cannon part of dragon ball as a whole or just this game? Sorry if I'm being rude here but your comment has no bearing on my statement.

Well, your statement was that they are not "canon" at all which is not true. They are a thing in DB Heroes, an official product licenced by a company with the rights to use the DragonBall brand. It's not like AF or After the Future or whatever stupid name fans come up with during the early 2000's.

Even in Heroes only the hero avatars can reach those class-ups, It's not like it's a transformation for the species as a whole.

P.S. you weren't rude at all :thumbup:
I see, thank you for explaining you point, yes that makes sense. :thumbup:

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:58 am

I would like to see everyone's DBS ower level lists if they have one. And perhaps include Buu Arc Goku and Vegetto as references.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're in the DB community, it's always a power level thread to someone.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:42 am

Bullza wrote: Which again is not what he said. He said he'd absorbed that power, made it his own power and so does not need to transform into it because of that.

In the manga he transforms into it because he needs to because he didn't absorb the power and make it his own.

You are constantly looking for some work around to the very simple things that are said and shown. They said he'd absorbed it and that's why he wasn't weaker so you say "Oh well no what he actually meant is he just doesn't have a weaker power source...".

The manga shows an image with a silhouette of God behind an attacking Base Goku showing he'd got that power due to absorbing it so you say "Oh well no what this image shows actually means this and this".

Beerus says he's got stronger so you say "Oh well he might just be referring to this and this."

The Narrator and Vegeta say he's surpassed the level of Gods so you say "Oh well what they meant when they said that was..."

Goku says outright he's a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God so you say "Oh but when he says he's got the power of God what he actually means is..."

You're activatly trying to find other false meaning to very simple explanations all so it fits with that one comment from Beerus which he said to an unconscious Goku whilst also just plain making up things like "God essence" which has never been mentioned anywhere.

Correct, when he assumes the form he had power of a God. In the anime he doesn't assume the form because he already has the power of a God.

No again that also wasn't said. Goku said that Frost fighting Piccolo could lose him to lose a little energy. He never told Piccolo to make him waste his energy nor was that said to be Piccolo's intention.

Piccolo just fought defensively causing the two of them to lose energy naturally and neither was able to beat the other. Piccolo fought on an even matchup against someone who was stronger than Base Vegeta which is completely contradictory with the previous saga showing them being miles upon miles ahead of Piccolo.
Didn't address a word I said and you didn't say anything that wasn't already countered, so I striked out the irrelevant bit.

He assumes God because he has the power of God, just like was shown in the movie. End of story. There is no possible rebuttal. Using the god ki increases his power level as shown when he transitions from SSJ to Blue in both the anime and manga.

Neither was able to beat the other because Piccolo fought defensively and made Frost burn through energy, not because they had equal power levels, so no. No reason why the Base Saiyans can't replicate what Piccolo did.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:06 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:I would like to see everyone's DBS power level lists if they have one. And perhaps include Buu Arc Goku and Vegetto as references.
I'm in the process of updating mine. Once done, I'll post it with DBZ levels as reference.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:21 pm

He assumes God because he has the power of God
When he has the appearence of a Super Saiyan God, yes. The form does not appear again in the anime because there's no need for it to as he already has its power in his Base form as the Resurrection F manga showed.
Using the god ki increases his power level as shown when he transitions from SSJ to Blue in both the anime and manga.
No God Ki was never once said to affect his power as was proven when he lost God Ki during his fight with Beerus yet his power stayed exactly the same.

Super Saiyan Blue is a Saiyan with the power of God turning Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan is a Saiyan without the power of God turning Super Saiyan. That's why he can turn into it in the manga because he didn't absorb it's power.
Neither was able to beat the other because Piccolo fought defensively and made Frost burn through energy, not because they had equal power levels, so no.
It doesn't matter. If Frost is stronger than Base Goku who is leagues upon leagues ahead of Super Saiyan Gohan then fighting defensively doesn't amount to squat.

Piccolo wouldn't have been able to do the same thing against Final Form Frieza. He said he and the rest of the Z Fighters stood no chance of beating him when he was just in his first form.

Yet it works against Frost because Frost isn't remotely as strong as Frieza. Yet one Goku was shown to be weaker than Frieza and another was weaker than Frost because one is God level and the other isn't.

Base Goku (RoF) > Final Form Frieza >>>>> Final Form Frost > Piccolo > Base Goku (U6)

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:56 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:I would like to see everyone's DBS ower level lists if they have one. And perhaps include Buu Arc Goku and Vegetto as references.
I don't have numbers applied to anyone but I have a general order of how characters stack up.

Zeno Tier

Zeno = Future Zeno

Angel Tier

Grand Priest
Vados
Whis

God of Destruction Tier

Beerus
Champa

Fusion Tier

Spirit Trunks
SSJB Vegito
Mutated Merged Zamasu
SSJB Goku Kaioken x2 (Universe Survival)
Merged Zamasu
SSJB Goku (Zenkai?) = SSJB Vegeta (ROSAT) = Super Trunks (Enraged) (Future Trunks)
Hit (Future Trunks)
SSJB Goku Kaioken x10 (Universe 6)

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

SSJR Black (Scythe)
SSJR Black (Scimitar)
Super Trunks
Enraged SSJB Goku
SSJR Black
SSJB Goku = SSJB Vegeta (Future Trunks)
SSJB Goku = SSJB Vegeta (Universe 6)
Hit (Universe 6)
Golden Frieza
SSJB Goku = SSJB Vegeta (Resurrection F)

Super Saiyan God Tier

Saiyan Beyond God Goku = Saiyan Beyond God Vegeta (Resurrection F)
Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F)
Saiyan Beyond God Goku (Battle of Gods)
SSJ Beyond God Goku
SSJG Goku

Supressed Beerus Tier

Super Bergamo
SSJ Vegito
SSJ Goku (With everyone's power)
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
Beerus (Under 10%)

Ultimate Gohan Tier

Ultimate Gohan
SSJ3 Gotenks
SSJ2 Future Trunks (After Training)
First Form Frieza
SSJ Gohan = SSJ Goku (Universe Survival)
SSJ Gohan (Resurrection F)

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 Tier

Vegito
SSJ3 Goku (Battle of Gods)
Good Buu
Super Basil
SSJ2 Goku (Battle of Gods) = Black (Second Power Up)
Black (First Power Up)
Black
Present Zamasu
SSJ2 Future Trunks (Before Training)
SSJ2 Kid Gohan (Cell Games)

Super Saiyan Tier

SSJ Goku = SSJ Vegeta (Battle of Gods)
SSJ Cabba
Magetta
SSJ Future Trunks (Before Training)
Final Form Frost
Piccolo (Universe 6) = Gohan = Goku (Universe Survival)
Bergamo
Lavender
Basil
Gohan (Resurrection F) = Tagoma = Future Trunks (Before Training)
SSJ Kid Trunks
SSJ Goten
Android 18
Final Form Frieza (Namek)

Base Tier

Goku = Vegeta (Battle of Gods)
Cabba
Future Trunks (Before Training)
Third Form Frost
Kid Trunks
Goten
First Form Frost
Botamo

Worthless Tier

Krillin
Tien
Shisami
Gryll
Jaco
Roshi
Monaka

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kaboom » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:57 pm

Since some posts over the last few pages have ended up being reported, I wanted to drop off a friendly reminder to keep things cordial and respectful. Power levels and strength comparisons in general aren't an exact science, and the ones in Super are even loopier than usual, to the point where just about any theory will be at least halfway valid because none of them are going to fit 100%. It's not worth getting snippy and hostile towards your fellow fans over.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Cabba » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:05 pm

After reading the manga i just noticed something interesting
Trunks max SS2 form is stated to be SS3 tier by Vegeta. Trunks said even with that power he was nothing but fodder for Goku black. When Vegeta SS2? fights Black as SS2? he utterly dominates black and trunks points out that black is a bit stronger than when he fought him. That would put SS(2) Vegeta at the very least at Vegeto tier from main saga
ChiefWamsutta wrote: This probably means that Base Goku and Final Form Frieza are a good bit above Fat Buu, which is why I put them at Super Buu level. They both then jump to above SSG Goku when they go SSB and Golden.
I would put them even above that considering first form freeza easily took down Gohan SS and Piccolo. Piccolo at the very least is Android 17 tier, there are two more transformations between his final (non gold) and first form. So I think its fair to assume they were at least Vegeto tier at that point
Bullza wrote: No that's not what was said. Piccolo was only said to have been fighting defensively. Piccolo was actually said to have been losing energy even faster than what Frost was. Neither was capable of defeating the other, they were evenly matched
A few things though:
First Frost was already weakened by Goku, and even then If Piccolo fought defensively is because he knew he had no chances at the offensive
Also Goku and Vegeta just went SS to waste no time or energy, especially Vegeta who wanted to finish frost as soon as possible. There is nothing that says they could not beat frost on their base form

I do agree about the discrepancy of power between FnF and U6 arc. In FnF base goku and vegeta were at the very least Vegetto SS tier
Last edited by Cabba on Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:47 am

Cabba wrote:There is nothing that says they could not beat frost on their base form
In the manga Vados calls Frost the "strongest warrior in our universe" so he has to be stronger than Base Cabba.

Base Vegeta says to Cabba "You're about as strong as myself".

So Frost would have to be stronger than the Base Saiyans. Seemingly in his Final Form only though.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Cabba » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:57 am

Bullza wrote:
Cabba wrote:There is nothing that says they could not beat frost on their base form
In the manga Vados calls Frost the "strongest warrior in our universe" so he has to be stronger than Base Cabba.
Base Vegeta says to Cabba "You're about as strong as myself".
So Frost would have to be stronger than the Base Saiyans. Seemingly in his Final Form only though.
I think that line was more about plot convenience to build up hype for the fight considering it she said it when frost was fighting in his first form
Second: Where would that put Magenta and Hit? are they not from U6 as well? even leaving Cabba out, we have two characters from U6 who far exceed frost, unless you wanna argue frost is stronger than them due to some isolated line
Third: This is just a nitpick but... Vegeta actually says In your normal state you should be able to hold your own against me, the you are as strong as me line is from the anime

To add another isolated line to stir the pot
When Cabba is about to fight champa tells him his opponent is a saiyan just like him so he should have a chance at winning.
My personal take on it is that we shouldnt put too much weight or think to much into it, sometimes lines are there just for show

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:50 am

Bullza wrote:
DBZ Macky wrote:I would like to see everyone's DBS ower level lists if they have one. And perhaps include Buu Arc Goku and Vegetto as references.
Fusion Tier

Spirit Trunks
SSJB Vegito
Mutated Merged Zamasu
SSJB Goku Kaioken x2 (Universe Survival)
Merged Zamasu
SSJB Goku (Zenkai?) = SSJB Vegeta (ROSAT) = Super Trunks (Enraged) (Future Trunks)
Hit (Future Trunks)

SSJB Goku Kaioken x10 (Universe 6)

Super Saiyan Blue Tier

SSJR Black (Scythe)
SSJR Black (Scimitar)
Super Trunks
Enraged SSJB Goku
SSJR Black
SSJB Goku = SSJB Vegeta (Future Trunks)
SSJB Goku = SSJB Vegeta (Universe 6)
Hit (Universe 6)
Golden Frieza
SSJB Goku = SSJB Vegeta (Resurrection F)

Super Saiyan God Tier

Saiyan Beyond God Goku = Saiyan Beyond God Vegeta (Resurrection F)
Final Form Frieza (Resurrection F)
I wanted to say overall I like the list, but I would question some things.

1) I don't think Vegeta really can have a Saiyan Beyond God form because he got to the level of Super Saiyan God by training. His RoF SBG form that you state should be his Base form he uses from there on out.

(I still like the idea that Goku and Vegeta lose their SBG forms when they traveled through time, as non-Kaioshin Gods can't time travel. SSB they would keep since it's like a hybrid god form, and not a real god form.)

2) Did we ever find out if Spirit Bomb Sword SSRage Trunks was stronger than SSB Vegito? I thought Vegito weakened Mutated Merged Zamasu, so it would be: SSB Vegito > Mutated Merged Zamasu > Spirit Trunks > Mutated Merged Zamasu (Weakened).

3) I don't think Hit (F. Trunks Saga) is that strong. I think Goku just said he was stronger than in the U6 Tourney. SSB Goku Zenkai, SSB Vegeta RoSaT, Super Trunks Enraged should all be below SSRose Black Scythe because he overwhelmed them with the clones. Although I don't know how they kept up with Merged Zamasu. I think SSB KK×10 from U6 should be right below Merged Zamasu as Vegeta says it is the strongest power he has ever felt. I am feeling that the underlined block could just be moved right below SSRose Black Scythe.

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