Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Animelover5487]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

[larzooma]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

Golden Frieza's power full out without his weakness compared to a much, much weaker SSJB Goku and Vegeta. People keep forgetting the amount of growth the two characters have gone through, form training for 3 years in the time chamber to defeating Goku Black, Zamasu, Hit. Both characters outclass him by a good amount now at full power in SSJB. Frieza hasn't gained an ounce of power since his defeat. Just because someone could beat Goku as a SSJ on Namek, doesn't mean they could touch a character on par with SSJ Goku during the Cell games. I'd honestly say Frieza is mid-tier given the other character's growth since RoF. Everyone forgets he was equal in power to Goku and Vegeta shortly after they even discovered the form. If anything, he will come at Goku thinking he stands a chance without the one shortcoming, and come out realizing how powerless he is given how easily Goku handles him.

[Animelover5487]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

Golden Frieza's power full out without his weakness compared to a much, much weaker SSJB Goku and Vegeta. People keep forgetting the amount of growth the two characters have gone through, form training for 3 years in the time chamber to defeating Goku Black, Zamasu, Hit. Both characters outclass him by a good amount now at full power in SSJB. Frieza hasn't gained an ounce of power since his defeat. Just because someone could beat Goku as a SSJ on Namek, doesn't mean they could touch a character on par with SSJ Goku during the Cell games. I'd honestly say Frieza is mid-tier given the other character's growth since RoF. Everyone forgets he was equal in power to Goku and Vegeta shortly after they even discovered the form. If anything, he will come at Goku thinking he stands a chance without the one shortcoming, and come out realizing how powerless he is given how easily Goku handles him.

Did you read what I posted? They are going to pull a Manga "Complete" SSJB bs. "Explaining" that since Freeza was in a mortal body that he couldn't access the full potential of his golden form and that being in a dead body will give him "all" of it's power.

[SaiyanGod117]

If Freeza gives ssj blue Goku a good fight or Goku needs to use kk+ssj blue, it simply means Freeza while in hell was meditating in perfecting his golden form, so he mastered it.

I see it as ssj from namek and beginning of android saga, unmastered compared to cell games, where it was mastered.

So i will have no problem with Golden Freeza doing very well or even pushing ssj blue Goku to using KK.

Pffft, what a load bull. Though most likely what's gonna happen is Frieza will give SSB Goku a good fight or will be more or less equal. When logically he shouldn't be.

[larzooma]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

Golden Frieza's power full out without his weakness compared to a much, much weaker SSJB Goku and Vegeta. People keep forgetting the amount of growth the two characters have gone through, form training for 3 years in the time chamber to defeating Goku Black, Zamasu, Hit. Both characters outclass him by a good amount now at full power in SSJB. Frieza hasn't gained an ounce of power since his defeat. Just because someone could beat Goku as a SSJ on Namek, doesn't mean they could touch a character on par with SSJ Goku during the Cell games. I'd honestly say Frieza is mid-tier given the other character's growth since RoF. Everyone forgets he was equal in power to Goku and Vegeta shortly after they even discovered the form. If anything, he will come at Goku thinking he stands a chance without the one shortcoming, and come out realizing how powerless he is given how easily Goku handles him.

Did you read what I posted? They are going to pull a Manga "Complete" SSJB bs. "Explaining" that since Freeza was in a mortal body that he couldn't access the full potential of his golden form and that being in a dead body will give him "all" of it's power.

Well he did engage them at 100% power, Goku and Vegeta are smart enough fighters to realize all they needed to do was keep the fight going while his power leaked out. They could keep up with him to some extent even when he was maxed out. All being dead will do is let him access his full power without the downside of steadily losing it as he fights. Give the same advantage to Yamcha vs Vegeta, and see if Vegeta steadily losing a bit of power sways the fight (Just a bit of hyperbole, obviously no where near the same disparity in power).

[emperior]

Caulifla is a little stronger than Cabba, though we don't know how much Cabba has improved since the tournament. It seems like he has mastered Super Saiyan though he might be hiding some new transformation. He knows Blue exists so he probably trained to try and achieve a better form than Super Saiyan. Though I don't believe he can possibly go Blue (unless he discovered he can go Blue by focusing his energy somewhere )

As for Freezer, I fully believe it will be up to Toriyama to decided whether Freezer is still stronger than SSB Goku or not. At this point he really shouldn't, and it would be nice if they showed SSB Goku being now better than Golden Freezer, as it would give us a sense of progress, or else it will feel like nothing has changed ever since the RoF arc, which would make the entirety of FT arc feel "useless" outside of bringing a new Zeno, explaining potara limits for mortals, introducing Daishinkan and dropping the info about Kaioshin-Hakaishin lives being connected.

[Bullza]

I fully expect Kale to end up being stronger than Caulifa and Cabba but does anyone think she'll be stronger than Hit to be the strongest in Universe 6 or will Hit stay their top fighter?

[larzooma]

I fully expect Kale to end up being stronger than Caulifa and Cabba but does anyone think she'll be stronger than Hit to be the strongest in Universe 6 or will Hit stay their top fighter?

Honestly, I think given Hit's millennium of experience, long list of abilities, and the capability to adapt and grow during a battle to counter his opponent's abilities, almost gives him a buffer very few, if any warrior can truly overcome. Even in their last meeting, Goku basically had to fully increase his power in SSJB and land a head on Kamehameha, only to force a draw. I think he's probably the most powerful character they've encountered so far outside the God and Angel pantheon. A few youtubers have pointed out a difference in Kale's SSJ form based on the opening animation. In one form, she's much bulkier with only the white of her eyes showing, which may be an initial phase in her transformation before she gains control over the power, or she could possibly have a SSJ form activated in the same way as Cabba and Cali, and if pushed enough, a berserker form providing a substantial increase in power. Either way, I don't see anyone growing beyond Hit from U6, and very few, if any, able to truly keep up with him in the ToP. She will definitely be a force to be reckoned with, and it's going to be great to see her going against the U7 SSJs. I wonder where the form lands in comparison to Goku and Vegeta's available transformations.

[TysonWine]

I fully expect Kale to end up being stronger than Caulifa and Cabba but does anyone think she'll be stronger than Hit to be the strongest in Universe 6 or will Hit stay their top fighter?

I don't think she'll be stronger, but I think she'll be close. Really close...like too close. I expect Universe 6 Saiyans as a whole to be a lot stronger than they should be. Well, maybe I shouldn't say "should," but more stronger than I would like them to be. I don't think we'll go the entire tournament without some of our Saiyans fighting some of theirs. That being said, while our Saiyans should (I would like) dominate, I wouldn't be surprised if Universe 6 Saiyans are powered up to the point where they can challenge our Saiyans for the sake of creating drama and excitement. The episode preview indicates that Caulifla has already unlocked SSJ2. For whatever reason, Cabba and Vegeta were equal in base, so if Caulifla's base is stronger than Cabba's, her SSJ2 should be a nightmare. Which brings me to Kale. If she's stronger than Caulifla, I could see her being stronger than Gohan. Maybe not the way I would write it, but hey, if they're there then I guess they should be strong enough to do some damage.

If It were up to me, Universe 6 would have more seasoned Saiyans who had already unlocked various SSJ transformations. That way absurd power increases in short amount of times wouldn't be required.

[Bullza]

I wonder where the form lands in comparison to Goku and Vegeta's available transformations.

If everyone was equal in Base form. I'd guess between Super Saiyan 2 and 3 myself.

If it's anything like with Broly, I could see him above Super Saiyan 2 based on his two movies but if he were any higher than Super Saiyan 3 then they really shouldn't have beaten him in either movie the way they did.

Would the form be most comparable to the Ultra Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that fought Vegeta perhaps?

That said with how this show has been with Super Saiyan Rage Trunks and Ultimate Gohan amongst others being a match for Super Saiyan Blue then it wouldn't surprise me at all if Kale is comparable aswell.

[Ki Breaker]

I fully expect Kale to end up being stronger than Caulifa and Cabba but does anyone think she'll be stronger than Hit to be the strongest in Universe 6 or will Hit stay their top fighter?

Nope, I can even consider her topping hit in raw power and even SSG because this is a new form, but under no circumstances would a raging beast be able to beat a skilled assassin who specializes in vital points..

[Marlowe89]

Edit: Nevermind, was quoting an old post.

[Saturnine]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

Still, Goku's been through trainings since that time. I believe he should easily be stronger than 100% Freeza now. It wasn't more than like, 10% to begin with, otherwise he would die.

[MagmonKai]

I fully expect Kale to end up being stronger than Caulifa and Cabba but does anyone think she'll be stronger than Hit to be the strongest in Universe 6 or will Hit stay their top fighter?

A girl who can barely transform into a super saiyan can beat hit? Who can withstand Goku KKx10?? ARE YOU INSANE? That Kale would have to be a complete diabolical monster to be able to compete with the likes of HIT and Goku. She hasn't proven herself worthy to take on the Gods. I think Gohan would stomp her in the ground, hell even Piccolo would be a good match for her!!

[DBZ Macky]

I fully expect Kale to end up being stronger than Caulifa and Cabba but does anyone think she'll be stronger than Hit to be the strongest in Universe 6 or will Hit stay their top fighter?

A girl who can barely transform into a super saiyan can beat hit? Who can withstand Goku KKx10?? ARE YOU INSANE? That Kale would have to be a complete diabolical monster to be able to compete with the likes of HIT and Goku. She hasn't proven herself worthy to take on the Gods. I think Gohan would stomp her in the ground, hell even Piccolo would be a good match for her!!

It's not out of the question. Even if Kale is a 1 and Goku is a 100, transforming into her Berserker stage should put her a fair amount above Goku. Since, "Maximum" > 100.

Not to mention this is literally after Gohan was able to match SSGSS Goku when before he was getting his ass handed to him by Piccolo.

[LowRyder2005]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

Eh, it may be frightening to say, but even this sounds almost too refined for the way Super handles its fights. Freeza will probably exchange blows on somewhat equal terms with Goku, then the fight will be interrupted or Goku will win but with minimum to medium effort.

An outrage then ensues.

[Saturnine]

Calling it! Golden Freeza will overpower SSJB Goku then Goku will use Kaioken and gain the advantage. The explanation (if there is an explanation) will be similar to Manga Super Saiyan Blue, where in his last fight he couldn't use anywhere near his full power but now that he's in a dead body he can stay at 100% power.

Eh, it may be frightening to say, but even this sounds almost too refined for the way Super handles its fights. Freeza will probably exchange blows on somewhat equal terms with Goku, then the fight will be interrupted or Goku will win but with minimum to medium effort.

An outrage then ensues.

Again, why would people get outraged over it? Goku has developed since RoF.

[Bullza]

I'm holding my breath even for how they're going to handle Goku Vs Frieza next week. The power scale has been a mess but surely the writers must realise Frieza can't still be stronger than Goku.

At the very least them fighting evenly with a comment on how Frieza can maintain his 100% power would be welcome.

But ideally Golden Frieza should be a chump by now. There's low end Blue Tier and high end Blue Tier and Frieza belongs in the former.

[Saturnine]

I'm holding my breath even for how they're going to handle Goku Vs Frieza next week. The power scale has been a mess but surely the writers must realise Frieza can't still be stronger than Goku.

At the very least them fighting evenly with a comment on how Frieza can maintain his 100% power would be welcome.

But ideally Golden Frieza should be a chump by now. There's low end Blue Tier and high end Blue Tier and Frieza belongs in the former.

Couldn't agree more. Well I'm sure Goku will mention that he's gotten stronger next week or something

[Marlowe89]

At the very least them fighting evenly with a comment on how Frieza can maintain his 100% power would be welcome.

I can definitely see them going that route to be honest, especially since Frieza isn't inhabiting a live body anymore.

I don't think we were ever told exactly how much stronger Golden Frieza was compared to Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta during RoF, we just know he was stronger before his power began to drop as the fight progressed. The writers can certainly take advantage of this ambiguity from a narrative standpoint and just have Golden Frieza's full power be as strong as it needs to be.