In the newest chapter Beerus says that he can't kill Gods. I remembered a similar scene in the anime but in that version they just referred to Beerus not being able to kill Zamasu because he was immortal. Here he just straight up says "I can't kill gods". Who is he referring to exactly? Why can he not kill Gods? Can Gods just not kill other Gods? Because it's impossible or there's some rule against it? Zamasu killed plenty of Gods.
DBZ Macky wrote:I don't think that scan says anything about the lavenda fight. Rather, it tells us that the Gohan at the Tournament of Power is super serious and now can also tap into his Ultimate strength.
Well the scan came out along side the Zen Exhibition episodes. The image shows a Gohan as he appeared when he fought Lavender.
It could however be as LowRyder2005 suggests and it was the correct information but with an unfitting picture. Maybe it was just a mistake.
But even with that Gohan's power is also very confusing. He didn't have that Ultimate state in the Battle of Gods saga so why would he attack Beerus without transforming and why was Piccolo so surprised to see him lose so quickly?
Then there's the whole mess with how he compared with Piccolo in the Resurrection F and Universe 6 saga's which people tend to want to ignore now.
Bullza wrote:In the newest chapter Beerus says that he can't kill Gods. I remembered a similar scene in the anime but in that version they just referred to Beerus not being able to kill Zamasu because he was immortal. Here he just straight up says "I can't kill gods". Who is he referring to exactly? Why can he not kill Gods? Can Gods just not kill other Gods? Because it's impossible or there's some rule against it? Zamasu killed plenty of Gods.
Viz provided the wrong translation. It actually says immortal, not gods.
SSJ2 Caulifla fights SSJ2 Goku but can't get any offense on him and Goku holds her back comfortably.
LSSJ Kale steamrolls SSJ2 Goku and then literally walks through a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku like it's nothing. LSSJ Kale is far beyond SSJB tier. Unless Goku stacks Kaioken x10/x15/x20 on top of SSJB, he's not touching LSSJ Kale.
Jiren then one-shots LSSJ Kale like she's nothing.
Goku is going to get his ass kicked if he fights Jiren. Jiren is so much more powerful that Goku, that it's downright scary.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Had a little trouble seeing the start of the episode.
- Hit beat Narirama.
- Super Saiyan Caulifla beat the tar out of Napapa and the other one.
- Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla fought Super Saiyan 2 Goku but it seemed like Goku was in control.
- Legendary Super Saiyan Kale beat the shit out of Super Saiyan 2 Goku and then completely shrugged off his Super Saiyan Blue Kamemeha which was kinda bullshit and once again just minimizes how strong that whole level is supposed to be. They could have just used Super Saiyan 3.
- Jiren one shot Kale.
So Kale is obviously God level, probably stronger than Merged Zamasu with the Halo from the looks of it. I couldn't see him shrugging off a Kamehameha even if it wasn't the arm breaking one that Goku actually did use.
Before we get an explanation first thing is to not jump the gun. (Which is outright impossible for this fanbase XD)
Jiren simply caught her offguard AND we know that Jiren is stronger than a SSB.
However, as for SSB And Kale LSSJ. Kale was walking towards it and it didn't phase her.
All that we know so far is that Goku is still conserving his power so it's likely that he wasn't at Full Power to conserve stamina.
At any rate, after careful analysis over the scene itself I gotta say, either Goku held back way more than he should and misjudged Kale's defense or it doesn't make any sense at all.
After all it wouldn't be the first time in this arc that Goku did a weakass blue kamehameha <_<
Besides that It seems we have a confirmation that Final Form Freeza is stronger than a SSJ indeed. Seeing Caulifla had a little trouble with Napapa?? and Freeza was seen literally stepping on him.
Funny enough, they didn't make once reference to Broly in the episode. So it seems as though Kale SSJ Berserker form is her own unique transformation. Although Vegeta speculates it may be the Saiyan's true/original form. Kale is basically Universe 6 Gohan. When she's under mental or emotional stress, her power spikes.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
So whose the strongest member from Universe 6 do you think? Hit or Kale?
Feats wise it would seem like Kale because Hit could never have shrugged off a Kamehameha like that but it's true he would have been holding back to some extent because he's not allowed to kill anyway but from a narrative point of view I think they might still intend for Hit to be #1.
If true and Hit was still about as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku then it'd mean Kale wasn't quite as strong but probably not far off either way.
Lord Beerus wrote:Funny enough, they didn't make once reference to Broly in the episode. So it seems as though Kale SSJ Berserker form is her own unique transformation. Although Vegeta speculates it may be the Saiyan's true/original form. Kale is basically Universe 6 Gohan. When she's under mental or emotional stress, her power spikes.
But they did, Broly straight up walked through Goku's KHH the same way Kale walked through SSJB Goku's KHH.
Doubt it. You have to remember that Kale didn't just tank that Blue Kamehameha like it was nothing -- she also proceeded to just walk right up to Goku and casually swat him away like he was some fly. Unless he was going to pull out Kaioken or something I think it's pretty darn obvious he was completely helpless all throughout their skirmish.
Kale's LSS form is most likely significantly stronger than SSB, to be frank. I'm not surprised by this at all considering how much the people in charge of this franchise have glorified that form.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lord Beerus wrote:Funny enough, they didn't make once reference to Broly in the episode. So it seems as though Kale SSJ Berserker form is her own unique transformation. Although Vegeta speculates it may be the Saiyan's true/original form. Kale is basically Universe 6 Gohan. When she's under mental or emotional stress, her power spikes.
I was super surprised by that. Every moment since Kale transformed I could picture in my mind the lines referencing him, but once both Vegeta and Goku reacted quite easily to it, the restraint kinda blew my mind.
Next episode I expect Kale will control the form and we'll get the slim version, as there's no other way I can picture that scene from the NEP happening. Thewhole original form of the Saiyans is quite an interesting angle.
Doubt it. You have to remember that Kale didn't just tank that Blue Kamehameha like it was nothing -- she also proceeded to just walk right up to Goku and casually swat him away like he was some fly. Unless he was going to pull out Kaioken or something I think it's pretty darn obvious he was completely helpless all throughout their skirmish.
Kale's LSS form is most likely significantly stronger than SSB, to be frank. I'm not surprised by this at all considering how much the people in charge of this franchise have glorified that form.
Doubt it, they made Goku say something that keeps me from taking it seriously ''I'll put out a little more ki now'' he was being careful from the looks of it at least.
Bullza wrote:
Well the scan came out along side the Zen Exhibition episodes. The image shows a Gohan as he appeared when he fought Lavender.
It could however be as LowRyder2005 suggests and it was the correct information but with an unfitting picture. Maybe it was just a mistake.
But even with that Gohan's power is also very confusing. He didn't have that Ultimate state in the Battle of Gods saga so why would he attack Beerus without transforming and why was Piccolo so surprised to see him lose so quickly?
Then there's the whole mess with how he compared with Piccolo in the Resurrection F and Universe 6 saga's which people tend to want to ignore now.
I see it as Gohan not having all the power of his Potential Unlocked state in BoG. He then losses the transformation completely by RoF.
Thanks to his training with Piccolo after RoF his normal base gets stronger than ever and that allows his Potential Unlocked state to be stronger on episode 88 and then even stronger on episode 90 matching SSB Goku.
Lord Beerus wrote:Funny enough, they didn't make once reference to Broly in the episode. So it seems as though Kale SSJ Berserker form is her own unique transformation. Although Vegeta speculates it may be the Saiyan's true/original form. Kale is basically Universe 6 Gohan. When she's under mental or emotional stress, her power spikes.
But they did, Broly straight up walked through Goku's KHH the same way Kale walked through SSJB Goku's KHH.
I meant in-universe.
They didn't specifically name-drop Broly, which shocked me, to be honest. I expected them to go full circle with the heavy Broly references make direct mention of the events in the eight DBZ movie in some capacity in-universe, but they never did beyond the visual homage. Broly obviously doesn't exist in the canon of Dragon Ball Super, but his form does.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
SSJ Cabba could hold his own against LSSJ Kale for a little while and SSJ2 Caulifla swatted away a ki blast from LSSJ Kale like it was nothing, so LSSJ Kale being as strong as she was portrayed in this episode makes no sense. Just more proof that Toei will toss logic and consistency aside just to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:SSJ Cabba could hold his own against LSSJ Kale for a little while and SSJ2 Caulifla swatted away a ki blast from LSSJ Kale like it was nothing, so LSSJ Kale being as strong as she was portrayed in this episode makes no sense. Just more proof that Toei will toss logic and consistency aside just to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Even SS2 Goku managed to deflect and dodge some hits, even if he was clearly being overpowered.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:SSJ Cabba could hold his own against LSSJ Kale for a little while and SSJ2 Caulifla swatted away a ki blast from LSSJ Kale like it was nothing, so LSSJ Kale being as strong as she was portrayed in this episode makes no sense. Just more proof that Toei will toss logic and consistency aside just to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Even SS2 Goku managed to deflect and dodge some hits, even if he was clearly being overpowered.
Idk which is worse, LSSJ being SSB Goku level (or higher) or Gohan going from Lavender level to SSB Goku level after training with Piccolo for a few hours.
