Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:24 am

Helios518 wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Helios518 wrote: Goku's also an alien.
Goku is an “alien” who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans. Not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make... Almost looks like you want to debate something silly.
We've seen other fictional characters like Superman who fits the description of "an 'alien' who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans." But still can survive in space.
It's just the thing they're going with for the Saiyans. Back in the original series, before Z, we had Goku rocketing up to the moon with Monster Carrot using his Power Pole. It's just the established background for these kinds of aliens nowadays.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheOne » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:25 am

Helios518 wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Helios518 wrote: Goku's also an alien.
Goku is an “alien” who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans. Not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make... Almost looks like you want to debate something silly.
We've seen other fictional characters like Superman who fits the description of "an 'alien' who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans." But still can survive in space.
I’m not going back and forth with you man. If you can’t see why Jiren, whose design literally looks like just an alien can breathe in space and Goku can’t, idk what to tell you. Do your thing.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheOne » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:27 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Helios518 wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Goku is an “alien” who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans. Not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make... Almost looks like you want to debate something silly.
We've seen other fictional characters like Superman who fits the description of "an 'alien' who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans." But still can survive in space.
It's just the thing they're going with for the Saiyans. Back in the original series, before Z, we had Goku rocketing up to the moon with Monster Carrot using his Power Pole. It's just the established background for these kinds of aliens nowadays.
Right, but that was something that happened in dragon ball. Z got rid of that completely (except when Vegeta was training on some random planet in the garlic Jr. Saga).
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:36 am

TheOne wrote:
Helios518 wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Goku is an “alien” who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans. Not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make... Almost looks like you want to debate something silly.
We've seen other fictional characters like Superman who fits the description of "an 'alien' who closely resembles a human. So much so that they can reproduce with humans." But still can survive in space.
I’m not going back and forth with you man. If you can’t see why Jiren, whose design literally looks like just an alien can breathe in space and Goku can’t, idk what to tell you. Do your thing.
I have no doubt if Geran can ability survive in space. But your reason for why he can, and Saiyan can't is only just head-canon that you're treating like fact and it doesn't even work for other fictional franchises like Marvel and DC.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:42 pm

In the anime it was implied Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza were faster than the Capsule Corporation Spaceship which was was about 5 times as fast as Kami's spaceship which flew to Jupiter in.....what? Seconds?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:50 pm

Bullza wrote:In the anime it was implied Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza were faster than the Capsule Corporation Spaceship which was was about 5 times as fast as Kami's spaceship which flew to Jupiter in.....what? Seconds?
You're talking about the thing where Kaio-sama could see the MFTL ships but couldn't see SSJ Goku and Freeza fight, right? If so, that's not a sign of the fight being FTL considering IRL humans could see jets move a sonic speeds while most of them could barely keep up with a flurry of punches.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:08 pm

Helios518 wrote:
Bullza wrote:In the anime it was implied Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza were faster than the Capsule Corporation Spaceship which was was about 5 times as fast as Kami's spaceship which flew to Jupiter in.....what? Seconds?
You're talking about the thing where Kaio-sama could see the MFTL ships but couldn't see SSJ Goku and Freeza fight, right? If so, that's not a sign of the fight being FTL considering IRL humans could see jets move a sonic speeds while most of them could barely keep up with a flurry of punches.
Well he wouldn't have been using his eyes anyway would he? He was able to target Goku and keep track of him while he was on a MFTL spaceship but couldn't do the same when he was flying around and fighting Frieza.

In real life you wouldn't see the flurry of punches but you'd still see the person throwing them.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:28 pm

This episode was a bit more talky than I expected, but still:

- SSJ Kafla can't lay a finger on Ultra Instinct Goku, as expected.
- Kafla powers up to SSJ2.
- Goku notes he's now getting used to his Ultra Instinct form
- SSJ2 Kafla can't land a hit on Ultra Instinct Goku (duh)
- JIREN HAS AWOKEN
- Ultra Instinct Goku continues to evade everything SSJ2 Kafla throws at him
- SSJ2 Kafla is hit with a Kamehameha from Ultra Instinct Goku at point blank range. The blast is so fierce it not only eliminates Kafla, but it also breaks the Potara earrings, causing Kafla to defuse.
- CAULIFLA AND KALE ARE OUT
- Goku loses his Ultra Instinct form and is out of power (again)
- NEP has Android 17 and 18 fighting Rozie and Ribrianne

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:34 pm

So is the tired downplay still a thing or?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:36 pm

So, Kefla turned into SSJ2 right? What is your level? She theoretically got 2x more powerful, so maybe she overcame Goku SSB and is on the same level as the Goku SSB Kaioken (we do not know how much Goku SSB was weakened in the past EP, it's hard to say)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:46 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:So is the tired downplay still a thing or?
As far as I know, it seems as though Ultra Instinct is its own beast of a form that is immensely powerful regardless of how much ki you have in the tank when you activate it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:01 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:So is the tired downplay still a thing or?
As far as I know, it seems as though Ultra Instinct is its own beast of a form that is immensely powerful regardless of how much ki you have in the tank when you activate it.
I meant more in the downplay to try and not make Kafla seem as bad as she rubs off on a lot of people.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Cetra » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:10 pm

I like how Kafla is not directly eliminated but defuses and the girls for real are eliminated instead. I just wish Kafla at least would have landed one hit. One hit. Not more. So she at least would have done something in this episode.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:26 pm

Bullza wrote:
Helios518 wrote:
Bullza wrote:In the anime it was implied Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza were faster than the Capsule Corporation Spaceship which was was about 5 times as fast as Kami's spaceship which flew to Jupiter in.....what? Seconds?
You're talking about the thing where Kaio-sama could see the MFTL ships but couldn't see SSJ Goku and Freeza fight, right? If so, that's not a sign of the fight being FTL considering IRL humans could see jets move a sonic speeds while most of them could barely keep up with a flurry of punches.
Well he wouldn't have been using his eyes anyway would he? He was able to target Goku and keep track of him while he was on a MFTL spaceship but couldn't do the same when he was flying around and fighting Frieza.

In real life you wouldn't see the flurry of punches but you'd still see the person throwing them.
Would you keep track of two dragonflies zipping around more easily than you would two cars racing in a straight line?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:27 pm

Cetra wrote:I like how Kafla is not directly eliminated but defuses and the girls for real are eliminated instead. I just wish Kafla at least would have landed one hit. One hit. Not more. So she at least would have done something in this episode.
I guess this is not necessary, it would be overdone and strange if she could hit UI Goku. She got the SSJ2 in this battle, that's enough

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Cetra » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:35 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Cetra wrote:I like how Kafla is not directly eliminated but defuses and the girls for real are eliminated instead. I just wish Kafla at least would have landed one hit. One hit. Not more. So she at least would have done something in this episode.
I guess this is not necessary, it would be overdone and strange if she could hit UI Goku. She got the SSJ2 in this battle, that's enough
Well, but she will probably never appear again so Legendary Controlled Super Saiyajin 2 could still at least have made one hit before ultimately having no actual effect. Just to show, okay, she is something but not THAT.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:38 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:So, Kefla turned into SSJ2 right? What is your level? She theoretically got 2x more powerful, so maybe she overcame Goku SSB and is on the same level as the Goku SSB Kaioken (we do not know how much Goku SSB was weakened in the past EP, it's hard to say)
I'd say she was a notch below full power SSB Goku in her first Super Saiyan form, so she's likely also a notch below a fully-powered Kaioken x 2 version in her second.

On the other hand, if SS Kefla is at least partially modified by Kale's much-higher-than-fifty-times berserker/Legendary Super Saiyan state, as it very well could be, then it's hard to say exactly what the multipliers are with that form in the mix.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:48 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:So, Kefla turned into SSJ2 right? What is your level? She theoretically got 2x more powerful, so maybe she overcame Goku SSB and is on the same level as the Goku SSB Kaioken (we do not know how much Goku SSB was weakened in the past EP, it's hard to say)
I'd say she was a notch below full power SSB Goku in her first Super Saiyan form, so she's likely also a notch below a fully-powered Kaioken x 2 version in her second.

On the other hand, if SS Kefla is at least partially modified by Kale's much-higher-than-fifty-times berserker/Legendary Super Saiyan state, as it very well could be, then it's hard to say exactly what the multipliers are with that form in the mix.
Yes, the '' multipliers '' for SSJ2 (Berserker version) may be different.

But we have a problem.
In my opinion Kale when turning into SSJ Berserker overcame Goku SSJ3 (she was undeniably stronger than Goku SSJ2)

Base Kefla, who was dominating Goku SSG, when turning into SSJ Berserker, was not able to beat Goku SSB (tired). So the SSB would have to have a multiplier far above the SSJ2 or else the SSJ Berserker is not as strong as we thought

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:58 pm

Watched the episode with subs.

- Whis says that Super Saiyan Kefla's energy rivalled the Spirit Bomb from before.

- She then turns into a Super Saiyan 2 and Piccolo says she's stronger (I forget the exact word) than Ultra Instinct Goku from when he used it on Jiren.

- Kefla said she could blow up a universe in one shot.

- Ultra Instinct Goku is stronger this time around and won in the end.


It looks like Kefla was a lot stronger than first thought. Actually kind of confusing to be honest. If Super Saiyan 2 Kefla was above Ultra Instinct Goku then Ultra Instinct Goku surely couldn't have been as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Vegito or maybe even Merged Zamasu.

It would also mean Super Saiyan 2 Kefla would have been considerably stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20. Meaning Super Saiyan Kefla would be considerably stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10..

Yet in the last episode it seemed like she was only a match for a tired Super Saiyan Blue....so that's confusing.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:02 pm

Image
Image
Image

So is the tired low balling gonna stop now after all this?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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