Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Kenneth La Torre]

Stated by whom?

Toppo. At the end, he comments on how goku has gotten better, and how he will continue to improve. Goku himself also comments that he is getting the hang of UI.

This doesn’t mean he was talking about power though. Also, Dyspo did comment os his movements being more polished/sharped.

There you go. By definition, goku is overall more powerful.

[Hugo Boss]

Toppo. At the end, he comments on how goku has gotten better, and how he will continue to improve. Goku himself also comments that he is getting the hang of UI.

This doesn’t mean he was talking about power though. Also, Dyspo did comment os his movements being more polished/sharped.

There you go. By definition, goku is overall more powerful.

I’m not getting your point. Hit is an example of fighter who improves without becoming more powerful. In this case, Goku is moving more efficiently than when he fought Jiren.

[Guesswhoo]

But Goku IN UI did power up and continued to do so. Piccolo wasn't talking about their whole fight cause his subject was UI Goku and Kefla inciting each other to power up. Then after Kefla responds to UI Goku's powering uo, Piccolo states UI Goku being at a disadvantage BY hoping THIS current UI Goku could draw out more power WHILE powering up. If Kefla was only above KKBluex20 Goku [Despite the truth Whis already stated she rivaled Genki Dama in SS. Which was stronger than KKx20 Blue], Piccolo wouldn't hope UI Goku could draw out his power even FURTHER due to Kefla surpassing his former level of UI.

BTW, HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EVERYBODY!!!

I think that all this was simply too implied to be stated with such certainty
Aside from no one else in the arena being surprised that Kefla had supposedly reached a level that only 2 warriors in the tournament had hit (not even Vegeta, who was surprised when he saw Goku with that power). Piccolo in no time says explicitly that she overcame UI Goku (a phrase that would certainly have an impact), on the contrary, was only said to have surpassed Goku's previous level, and this can be interpreted in several ways.

Even if you consider the context this is not clear, after all Goku UI did not even need to increase his power to face Kefla SSJ2 (neither was stronger than in the fight against Jiren) and Kefla only represented the least threat with his last resources in which she was exploding in anger.
The speech of Genki Dama is even more implicit and becomes incoherent if you want to talk that in amount of energy, Kefla SSJ = GK, because you need to also consider that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.

I simply put her on the SSB tier - SSB KK, since everything on EP 116 was implied

Well you can't put Kefla on that tier cause that goes against the story's clear statements. Kefla was holding back against KKBlue Goku anyway. So him being tired is irrelevant.
Kefla was stated CLEARLY by Whis to be just as strong as the Genki dama. Meaning she is automatically stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku IN SSJ.
Piccolo hoping UI Goku [NOT KKBlue Goku] could draw out more power cause he was at a disadvantage due to Kelfa's power up to SSJ2. UI Goku powering up further DID confirm Piccolo's statement.
It's all clearly stated and shown, the statements are backed by the actions. Kefla IS stronger than the former UI Goku.

Which means nothing since a COMPLETELY DRAINED SSB goku was able to tank its explosion. Saying that the genkidama is stronger than SSBKKx20 is therefore wrong. That Genkidama wasn't even as big as the one against Buu.
UI's power is still up to speculation, what makes UI so powerful is from the insane defensive skill boost it give. From an offensive standpoint, Jiren struggled more against SSB Goku and Hit than against UI.

[HeroR]

Which means nothing since a COMPLETELY DRAINED SSB goku was able to tank its explosion. Saying that the genkidama is stronger than SSBKKx20 is therefore wrong. That Genkidama wasn't even as big as the one against Buu.
UI's power is still up to speculation, what makes UI so powerful is from the insane defensive skill boost it give. From an offensive standpoint, Jiren struggled more against SSB Goku and Hit than against UI.

So Goku who could do nothing with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken x20 tried to beat Jiren with a Spirit Bomb that was weaker than the one from the Buu Saga or was so weak that it couldn't even beat Goku himself who got stomped by Jiren? And sized with the Spirit Bomb isn't a factor here since the Spirit Bomb from the Buu Saga was about the same sized that the one from the Freeza Saga, the same Spirit Bomb that couldn't killed 50% Freeza, but wiped a being thousands or millions of times stronger.

UI was stated several time to surpassed the level where Goku was previously at. Zen'o said that Goku got stronger. 17 said that Goku bridge the power gap between him and Jiren. Piccolo said that Goku's attacks were affecting Jiren when Blue could do nothing before and Goku's attacks were steadily getting stronger.

And Goku didn't tank the explosion of the Spirit Bomb, you completely misread what happened. The Spirit Bomb would have killed him. It was him resisting it that awoke UI and saved his life. Meaning it wasn't an exhausted Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that 'tanked' the Spirit Bomb, but UI Goku. We even see this when Goku's eyes went silver when the blast began to overtake him.

This doesn’t mean he was talking about power though. Also, Dyspo did comment os his movements being more polished/sharped.

There you go. By definition, goku is overall more powerful.

I’m not getting your point. Hit is an example of fighter who improves without becoming more powerful. In this case, Goku is moving more efficiently than when he fought Jiren.

Dypso also noted that Goku will continued to get stronger.

[Hugo Boss]

Which means nothing since a COMPLETELY DRAINED SSB goku was able to tank its explosion. Saying that the genkidama is stronger than SSBKKx20 is therefore wrong. That Genkidama wasn't even as big as the one against Buu.
UI's power is still up to speculation, what makes UI so powerful is from the insane defensive skill boost it give. From an offensive standpoint, Jiren struggled more against SSB Goku and Hit than against UI.

So Goku who could do nothing with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken x20 tried to beat Jiren with a Spirit Bomb that was weaker than the one from the Buu Saga or was so weak that it couldn't even beat Goku himself who got stomped by Jiren? And sized with the Spirit Bomb isn't a factor here since the Spirit Bomb from the Buu Saga was about the same sized that the one from the Freeza Saga, the same Spirit Bomb that couldn't killed 50% Freeza, but wiped a being thousands or millions of times stronger.

UI was stated several time to surpassed the level where Goku was previously at. Zen'o said that Goku got stronger. 17 said that Goku bridge the power gap between him and Jiren. Piccolo said that Goku's attacks were affecting Jiren when Blue could do nothing before and Goku's attacks were steadily getting stronger.

And Goku didn't tank the explosion of the Spirit Bomb, you completely misread what happened. The Spirit Bomb would have killed him. It was him resisting it that awoke UI and saved his life. Meaning it wasn't an exhausted Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that 'tanked' the Spirit Bomb, but UI Goku. We even see this when Goku's eyes went silver when the blast began to overtake him.

There you go. By definition, goku is overall more powerful.

I’m not getting your point. Hit is an example of fighter who improves without becoming more powerful. In this case, Goku is moving more efficiently than when he fought Jiren.

Dypso also noted that Goku will continued to get stronger.

So? Getting stronger is not necessarily the same thing as getting more powerful. Better moves make one stronger.

[HeroR]

Which means nothing since a COMPLETELY DRAINED SSB goku was able to tank its explosion. Saying that the genkidama is stronger than SSBKKx20 is therefore wrong. That Genkidama wasn't even as big as the one against Buu.
UI's power is still up to speculation, what makes UI so powerful is from the insane defensive skill boost it give. From an offensive standpoint, Jiren struggled more against SSB Goku and Hit than against UI.

So Goku who could do nothing with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken x20 tried to beat Jiren with a Spirit Bomb that was weaker than the one from the Buu Saga or was so weak that it couldn't even beat Goku himself who got stomped by Jiren? And sized with the Spirit Bomb isn't a factor here since the Spirit Bomb from the Buu Saga was about the same sized that the one from the Freeza Saga, the same Spirit Bomb that couldn't killed 50% Freeza, but wiped a being thousands or millions of times stronger.

UI was stated several time to surpassed the level where Goku was previously at. Zen'o said that Goku got stronger. 17 said that Goku bridge the power gap between him and Jiren. Piccolo said that Goku's attacks were affecting Jiren when Blue could do nothing before and Goku's attacks were steadily getting stronger.

And Goku didn't tank the explosion of the Spirit Bomb, you completely misread what happened. The Spirit Bomb would have killed him. It was him resisting it that awoke UI and saved his life. Meaning it wasn't an exhausted Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that 'tanked' the Spirit Bomb, but UI Goku. We even see this when Goku's eyes went silver when the blast began to overtake him.

I’m not getting your point. Hit is an example of fighter who improves without becoming more powerful. In this case, Goku is moving more efficiently than when he fought Jiren.

Dypso also noted that Goku will continued to get stronger.

So? Getting stronger is not necessarily the same thing as getting more powerful. Better moves make one stronger.

Don’t think Dyspo is slitting hairs in that way. When people say some is getting stronger in Dragon Ball, they mean power, not better moves.

[Hugo Boss]

So Goku who could do nothing with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken x20 tried to beat Jiren with a Spirit Bomb that was weaker than the one from the Buu Saga or was so weak that it couldn't even beat Goku himself who got stomped by Jiren? And sized with the Spirit Bomb isn't a factor here since the Spirit Bomb from the Buu Saga was about the same sized that the one from the Freeza Saga, the same Spirit Bomb that couldn't killed 50% Freeza, but wiped a being thousands or millions of times stronger.

UI was stated several time to surpassed the level where Goku was previously at. Zen'o said that Goku got stronger. 17 said that Goku bridge the power gap between him and Jiren. Piccolo said that Goku's attacks were affecting Jiren when Blue could do nothing before and Goku's attacks were steadily getting stronger.

And Goku didn't tank the explosion of the Spirit Bomb, you completely misread what happened. The Spirit Bomb would have killed him. It was him resisting it that awoke UI and saved his life. Meaning it wasn't an exhausted Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that 'tanked' the Spirit Bomb, but UI Goku. We even see this when Goku's eyes went silver when the blast began to overtake him.

Dypso also noted that Goku will continued to get stronger.

So? Getting stronger is not necessarily the same thing as getting more powerful. Better moves make one stronger.

Don’t think Dyspo is slitting hairs in that way. When people say some is getting stronger in Dragon Ball, they mean power, not better moves.

Then, you must think Hit gets stronger by powering-up. No problem.

[HeroR]

So? Getting stronger is not necessarily the same thing as getting more powerful. Better moves make one stronger.

Don’t think Dyspo is slitting hairs in that way. When people say some is getting stronger in Dragon Ball, they mean power, not better moves.

Then, you must think Hit gets stronger by powering-up. No problem.

Except in Hit’s case it was specifically stated his power didn’t go up.

[majinwarman]

So? Getting stronger is not necessarily the same thing as getting more powerful. Better moves make one stronger.

Don’t think Dyspo is slitting hairs in that way. When people say some is getting stronger in Dragon Ball, they mean power, not better moves.

Then, you must think Hit gets stronger by powering-up. No problem.

I think Goku is getting more powerful and is getting better with his moves at the same time.

[TheSaiyanGod]

But Goku IN UI did power up and continued to do so. Piccolo wasn't talking about their whole fight cause his subject was UI Goku and Kefla inciting each other to power up. Then after Kefla responds to UI Goku's powering uo, Piccolo states UI Goku being at a disadvantage BY hoping THIS current UI Goku could draw out more power WHILE powering up. If Kefla was only above KKBluex20 Goku [Despite the truth Whis already stated she rivaled Genki Dama in SS. Which was stronger than KKx20 Blue], Piccolo wouldn't hope UI Goku could draw out his power even FURTHER due to Kefla surpassing his former level of UI.

BTW, HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EVERYBODY!!!

I think that all this was simply too implied to be stated with such certainty
Aside from no one else in the arena being surprised that Kefla had supposedly reached a level that only 2 warriors in the tournament had hit (not even Vegeta, who was surprised when he saw Goku with that power). Piccolo in no time says explicitly that she overcame UI Goku (a phrase that would certainly have an impact), on the contrary, was only said to have surpassed Goku's previous level, and this can be interpreted in several ways.

Even if you consider the context this is not clear, after all Goku UI did not even need to increase his power to face Kefla SSJ2 (neither was stronger than in the fight against Jiren) and Kefla only represented the least threat with his last resources in which she was exploding in anger.
The speech of Genki Dama is even more implicit and becomes incoherent if you want to talk that in amount of energy, Kefla SSJ = GK, because you need to also consider that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.

I simply put her on the SSB tier - SSB KK, since everything on EP 116 was implied

Well you can't put Kefla on that tier cause that goes against the story's clear statements. Kefla was holding back against KKBlue Goku anyway. So him being tired is irrelevant.
Kefla was stated CLEARLY by Whis to be just as strong as the Genki dama. Meaning she is automatically stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku IN SSJ.
Piccolo hoping UI Goku [NOT KKBlue Goku] could draw out more power cause he was at a disadvantage due to Kelfa's power up to SSJ2. UI Goku powering up further DID confirm Piccolo's statement.
It's all clearly stated and shown, the statements are backed by the actions. Kefla IS stronger than the former UI Goku.

What? When was it said that Kefla SSJ was holding back against Goku SSB KK?

The only time she increased her power on EP 115 was after taking the first punch from SSB KK (which she defended and her arms were shaking). Then she raised her Ki and nothing changed, because she trembled to get up with just one punch
In EP 116, Kefla only increases the power when it becomes SSJ2 (so she was with the same power as in EP 115 until that moment). And there is no statement that she would release more power in SSJ.
That is, it is an undeniable fact that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.
So how could Whis's statement have referred to the amount of Kefla's energy compared to the Genki Dama? It does not make sense, it's the same as saying that Goku SSB KK> GK. Whis himself says afterward that she incited Goku to activate the UI (just as GK did).

The only level of questionable power is that of the Kefla SSJ2, but it has no concrete evidence yet that it overcame UI Goku.
In the end, Goku did not need to increase his power to face her (Piccolo claims she could force him to become more powerful, but not that this was necessary), as far as we know, UI Goku did not increase his power compared to EP 110 (so it was the same power and the speech '' overcame the Son's previously level '' can only refer to SSB KK), and no one else in the arena was even surprised by the power of Kefla SSJ2.

Again, none of this was so clear or explicit for to be an absolute fact as you say.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Whis stated that ssj Kefla rivaled the power of the genkidama with the genkidama being stronger than Ssb Kaiokenx20 Goku.

She goes ssj2 and piccolo states that she has surpassed gokus earlier UI power level. He then states that her ssj2 power could incite Goku to release more power in UI.

The exchange is very straightforward. Not seeing what the problem is.

[Miracles]

I think that all this was simply too implied to be stated with such certainty
Aside from no one else in the arena being surprised that Kefla had supposedly reached a level that only 2 warriors in the tournament had hit (not even Vegeta, who was surprised when he saw Goku with that power). Piccolo in no time says explicitly that she overcame UI Goku (a phrase that would certainly have an impact), on the contrary, was only said to have surpassed Goku's previous level, and this can be interpreted in several ways.

Even if you consider the context this is not clear, after all Goku UI did not even need to increase his power to face Kefla SSJ2 (neither was stronger than in the fight against Jiren) and Kefla only represented the least threat with his last resources in which she was exploding in anger.
The speech of Genki Dama is even more implicit and becomes incoherent if you want to talk that in amount of energy, Kefla SSJ = GK, because you need to also consider that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.

I simply put her on the SSB tier - SSB KK, since everything on EP 116 was implied

Well you can't put Kefla on that tier cause that goes against the story's clear statements. Kefla was holding back against KKBlue Goku anyway. So him being tired is irrelevant.
Kefla was stated CLEARLY by Whis to be just as strong as the Genki dama. Meaning she is automatically stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku IN SSJ.
Piccolo hoping UI Goku [NOT KKBlue Goku] could draw out more power cause he was at a disadvantage due to Kelfa's power up to SSJ2. UI Goku powering up further DID confirm Piccolo's statement.
It's all clearly stated and shown, the statements are backed by the actions. Kefla IS stronger than the former UI Goku.

What? When was it said that Kefla SSJ was holding back against Goku SSB KK?

The only time she increased her power on EP 115 was after taking the first punch from SSB KK (which she defended and her arms were shaking). Then she raised her Ki and nothing changed, because she trembled to get up with just one punch
In EP 116, Kefla only increases the power when it becomes SSJ2 (so she was with the same power as in EP 115 until that moment). And there is no statement that she would release more power in SSJ.
That is, it is an undeniable fact that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.
So how could Whis's statement have referred to the amount of Kefla's energy compared to the Genki Dama? It does not make sense, it's the same as saying that Goku SSB KK> GK. Whis himself says afterward that she incited Goku to activate the UI (just as GK did).

The only level of questionable power is that of the Kefla SSJ2, but it has no concrete evidence yet that it overcame UI Goku.
In the end, Goku did not need to increase his power to face her (Piccolo claims she could force him to become more powerful, but not that this was necessary), as far as we know, UI Goku did not increase his power compared to EP 110 (so it was the same power and the speech '' overcame the Son's previously level '' can only refer to SSB KK), and no one else in the arena was even surprised by the power of Kefla SSJ2.

Again, none of this was so clear or explicit for to be an absolute fact as you say.

This too was clearly stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the spirit bomb power. Which was stronger than Goku's kkbluex20. On top of that, Kefla has SSJ2, she could of smashed Goku any time, she was clearly holding back against Goku bluekk. Goku then transforms into UI, due to Kefla's SSJ power RIVALING the spirit bomb that awakened UI earlier! Then UI Goku powers up! So Kefla responds by powering up to SSJ2. NOW surpassing Goku's former UI level with SSJ2, stated by Piccolo. Which is a proven and clear statement cause a weaker version of Kefla in SSJ = Spirit bomb > KKx20 Blue Goku has already been established. So we know Piccolo was not talking about her surpassing KK Blue Goku. Now Piccolo wants Kefla's power up to incite UI Goku to draw out his power even further cause he was at a disadvantage. Piccolo said all of this WHILE UI Goku was powering up, proving his statement as clear and true.

Whis stated that ssj Kefla rivaled the power of the genkidama with the genkidama being stronger than Ssb Kaiokenx20 Goku.

She goes ssj2 and piccolo states that she has surpassed gokus earlier UI power level. He then states that her ssj2 power could incite Goku to release more power in UI.

The exchange is very straightforward. Not seeing what the problem is.

This poster gets it.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well you can't put Kefla on that tier cause that goes against the story's clear statements. Kefla was holding back against KKBlue Goku anyway. So him being tired is irrelevant.
Kefla was stated CLEARLY by Whis to be just as strong as the Genki dama. Meaning she is automatically stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku IN SSJ.
Piccolo hoping UI Goku [NOT KKBlue Goku] could draw out more power cause he was at a disadvantage due to Kelfa's power up to SSJ2. UI Goku powering up further DID confirm Piccolo's statement.
It's all clearly stated and shown, the statements are backed by the actions. Kefla IS stronger than the former UI Goku.

What? When was it said that Kefla SSJ was holding back against Goku SSB KK?

The only time she increased her power on EP 115 was after taking the first punch from SSB KK (which she defended and her arms were shaking). Then she raised her Ki and nothing changed, because she trembled to get up with just one punch
In EP 116, Kefla only increases the power when it becomes SSJ2 (so she was with the same power as in EP 115 until that moment). And there is no statement that she would release more power in SSJ.
That is, it is an undeniable fact that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.
So how could Whis's statement have referred to the amount of Kefla's energy compared to the Genki Dama? It does not make sense, it's the same as saying that Goku SSB KK> GK. Whis himself says afterward that she incited Goku to activate the UI (just as GK did).

The only level of questionable power is that of the Kefla SSJ2, but it has no concrete evidence yet that it overcame UI Goku.
In the end, Goku did not need to increase his power to face her (Piccolo claims she could force him to become more powerful, but not that this was necessary), as far as we know, UI Goku did not increase his power compared to EP 110 (so it was the same power and the speech '' overcame the Son's previously level '' can only refer to SSB KK), and no one else in the arena was even surprised by the power of Kefla SSJ2.

Again, none of this was so clear or explicit for to be an absolute fact as you say.

This too was clearly stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the spirit bomb power. Which was stronger than Goku's kkbluex20. On top of that, Kefla has SSJ2, she could of smashed Goku any time, she was clearly holding back against Goku bluekk. Goku then transforms into UI, due to Kefla's SSJ power RIVALING the spirit bomb that awakened UI earlier! Then UI Goku powers up! So Kefla responds by powering up to SSJ2. NOW surpassing Goku's former UI level with SSJ2, stated by Piccolo. Which is a proven and clear statement cause a weaker version of Kefla in SSJ = Spirit bomb > KKx20 Blue Goku has already been established. So we know Piccolo was not talking about her surpassing KK Blue Goku. Now Piccolo wants Kefla's power up to incite UI Goku to draw out his power even further cause he was at a disadvantage. Piccolo said all of this WHILE UI Goku was powering up, proving his statement as clear and true.

Whis stated that ssj Kefla rivaled the power of the genkidama with the genkidama being stronger than Ssb Kaiokenx20 Goku.

She goes ssj2 and piccolo states that she has surpassed gokus earlier UI power level. He then states that her ssj2 power could incite Goku to release more power in UI.

The exchange is very straightforward. Not seeing what the problem is.

This poster gets it.

Kefla JUST incited Goku to use the UI because he was already tired.
Goku barely managed to keep the Kaioken, Beerus even said that he would have to end the fight in the '' next blow ''. But Kefla can knock him down before that and he runs out of energy. Goku says '' not yet, '' he was still forcing his body and this resulted in UI activation.

That does not even prove that Kefla SSJ> Blue KK (she just hit Goku because he caught him off guard, before she was losing him). Considering this context, and the Whis speech ('' It incited Goku allowing him to break through another of his self - limiting shells ''), it is clear that Kefla's energy rivals GK in the sense of being able to make Goku activate the UI (not in amount of energy). These two energies had only the same effect. Basically that kick at the end of EP 115 had the same effect as GK (not meaning that it has the same level as Blue KK).

As for Piccolo's talk about UI, we've already discussed it massively and it's already becoming endless. I interpret Piccolo's speech in one way and you in another.

[Miracles]

What? When was it said that Kefla SSJ was holding back against Goku SSB KK?

The only time she increased her power on EP 115 was after taking the first punch from SSB KK (which she defended and her arms were shaking). Then she raised her Ki and nothing changed, because she trembled to get up with just one punch
In EP 116, Kefla only increases the power when it becomes SSJ2 (so she was with the same power as in EP 115 until that moment). And there is no statement that she would release more power in SSJ.
That is, it is an undeniable fact that Goku SSB KK (tired)> Kefla SSJ.
So how could Whis's statement have referred to the amount of Kefla's energy compared to the Genki Dama? It does not make sense, it's the same as saying that Goku SSB KK> GK. Whis himself says afterward that she incited Goku to activate the UI (just as GK did).

The only level of questionable power is that of the Kefla SSJ2, but it has no concrete evidence yet that it overcame UI Goku.
In the end, Goku did not need to increase his power to face her (Piccolo claims she could force him to become more powerful, but not that this was necessary), as far as we know, UI Goku did not increase his power compared to EP 110 (so it was the same power and the speech '' overcame the Son's previously level '' can only refer to SSB KK), and no one else in the arena was even surprised by the power of Kefla SSJ2.

Again, none of this was so clear or explicit for to be an absolute fact as you say.

This too was clearly stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the spirit bomb power. Which was stronger than Goku's kkbluex20. On top of that, Kefla has SSJ2, she could of smashed Goku any time, she was clearly holding back against Goku bluekk. Goku then transforms into UI, due to Kefla's SSJ power RIVALING the spirit bomb that awakened UI earlier! Then UI Goku powers up! So Kefla responds by powering up to SSJ2. NOW surpassing Goku's former UI level with SSJ2, stated by Piccolo. Which is a proven and clear statement cause a weaker version of Kefla in SSJ = Spirit bomb > KKx20 Blue Goku has already been established. So we know Piccolo was not talking about her surpassing KK Blue Goku. Now Piccolo wants Kefla's power up to incite UI Goku to draw out his power even further cause he was at a disadvantage. Piccolo said all of this WHILE UI Goku was powering up, proving his statement as clear and true.

Whis stated that ssj Kefla rivaled the power of the genkidama with the genkidama being stronger than Ssb Kaiokenx20 Goku.

She goes ssj2 and piccolo states that she has surpassed gokus earlier UI power level. He then states that her ssj2 power could incite Goku to release more power in UI.

The exchange is very straightforward. Not seeing what the problem is.

This poster gets it.

Kefla JUST incited Goku to use the UI because he was already tired.
Goku barely managed to keep the Kaioken, Beerus even said that he would have to end the fight in the '' next blow ''. But Kefla can knock him down before that and he runs out of energy. Goku says '' not yet, '' he was still forcing his body and this resulted in UI activation.

That does not even prove that Kefla SSJ> Blue KK (she just hit Goku because he caught him off guard, before she was losing him). Considering this context, and the Whis speech ('' It incited Goku allowing him to break through another of his self - limiting shells ''), it is clear that Kefla's energy rivals GK in the sense of being able to make Goku activate the UI (not in amount of energy). These two energies had only the same effect. Basically that kick at the end of EP 115 had the same effect as GK (not meaning that it has the same level as Blue KK).

As for Piccolo's talk about UI, we've already discussed it massively and it's already becoming endless. I interpret Piccolo's speech in one way and you in another.

Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku. DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy. Then Whis confirmed with "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect to trigger UI which you are alluding to. Both SSJ kefla and the bomb are stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. These are established facts and you have a logical contradiction to sort out.

[majinwarman]

This too was clearly stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the spirit bomb power. Which was stronger than Goku's kkbluex20. On top of that, Kefla has SSJ2, she could of smashed Goku any time, she was clearly holding back against Goku bluekk. Goku then transforms into UI, due to Kefla's SSJ power RIVALING the spirit bomb that awakened UI earlier! Then UI Goku powers up! So Kefla responds by powering up to SSJ2. NOW surpassing Goku's former UI level with SSJ2, stated by Piccolo. Which is a proven and clear statement cause a weaker version of Kefla in SSJ = Spirit bomb > KKx20 Blue Goku has already been established. So we know Piccolo was not talking about her surpassing KK Blue Goku. Now Piccolo wants Kefla's power up to incite UI Goku to draw out his power even further cause he was at a disadvantage. Piccolo said all of this WHILE UI Goku was powering up, proving his statement as clear and true.



This poster gets it.

Kefla JUST incited Goku to use the UI because he was already tired.
Goku barely managed to keep the Kaioken, Beerus even said that he would have to end the fight in the '' next blow ''. But Kefla can knock him down before that and he runs out of energy. Goku says '' not yet, '' he was still forcing his body and this resulted in UI activation.

That does not even prove that Kefla SSJ> Blue KK (she just hit Goku because he caught him off guard, before she was losing him). Considering this context, and the Whis speech ('' It incited Goku allowing him to break through another of his self - limiting shells ''), it is clear that Kefla's energy rivals GK in the sense of being able to make Goku activate the UI (not in amount of energy). These two energies had only the same effect. Basically that kick at the end of EP 115 had the same effect as GK (not meaning that it has the same level as Blue KK).

As for Piccolo's talk about UI, we've already discussed it massively and it's already becoming endless. I interpret Piccolo's speech in one way and you in another.

No, Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku.
DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy and Whis said "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect you are alluding to.
Which is stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. You have a logical contradiction to sort out.

I think that UI Goku that we saw was more powerful than the previous one. But, I don't think Kelfa was near that power. She is most likely KKx20 Blue level and not any higher than that. The Genki Dama statement by Whis can be debated and probably go nowhere.

[Miracles]

Kefla JUST incited Goku to use the UI because he was already tired.
Goku barely managed to keep the Kaioken, Beerus even said that he would have to end the fight in the '' next blow ''. But Kefla can knock him down before that and he runs out of energy. Goku says '' not yet, '' he was still forcing his body and this resulted in UI activation.

That does not even prove that Kefla SSJ> Blue KK (she just hit Goku because he caught him off guard, before she was losing him). Considering this context, and the Whis speech ('' It incited Goku allowing him to break through another of his self - limiting shells ''), it is clear that Kefla's energy rivals GK in the sense of being able to make Goku activate the UI (not in amount of energy). These two energies had only the same effect. Basically that kick at the end of EP 115 had the same effect as GK (not meaning that it has the same level as Blue KK).

As for Piccolo's talk about UI, we've already discussed it massively and it's already becoming endless. I interpret Piccolo's speech in one way and you in another.

No, Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku.
DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy and Whis said "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect you are alluding to.
Which is stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. You have a logical contradiction to sort out.

I think that UI Goku that we saw was more powerful than the previous one. But, I don't think Kelfa was near that power. She is most likely KKx20 Blue level and not any higher than that. The Genki Dama statement by Whis can be debated and probably go nowhere.

How can you debate both Beerus and Whis confirming Kefla's "massive energy" "rivaled the power of the spirit bomb" in Super Saiyan?

[majinwarman]

No, Piccolo's statement is not up for interpretation that he meant SSJ2 Kefla is stronger than KKx20 Goku.
DUE TO THE FACT Beerus confirms UI was triggered due to Kefla's "massive" energy and Whis said "yes" her "energy" "rivaled" the bomb. Not the emotional effect you are alluding to.
Which is stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku. You have a logical contradiction to sort out.

I think that UI Goku that we saw was more powerful than the previous one. But, I don't think Kelfa was near that power. She is most likely KKx20 Blue level and not any higher than that. The Genki Dama statement by Whis can be debated and probably go nowhere.

How can you debate both Beerus and Whis confirming Kefla's "massive energy" "rivaled the power of the spirit bomb" in Super Saiyan?

It could be an inconsistency that people shouldn't take seriously. I look at feats due to statements being usually weird to trust due to statements saying something that isn't happening.

[Miracles]

I think that UI Goku that we saw was more powerful than the previous one. But, I don't think Kelfa was near that power. She is most likely KKx20 Blue level and not any higher than that. The Genki Dama statement by Whis can be debated and probably go nowhere.

How can you debate both Beerus and Whis confirming Kefla's "massive energy" "rivaled the power of the spirit bomb" in Super Saiyan?

It could be an inconsistency that people shouldn't take seriously. I look at feats due to statements being usually weird to trust due to statements saying something that isn't happening.

Not the case here.

[majinwarman]

How can you debate both Beerus and Whis confirming Kefla's "massive energy" "rivaled the power of the spirit bomb" in Super Saiyan?

It could be an inconsistency that people shouldn't take seriously. I look at feats due to statements being usually weird to trust due to statements saying something that isn't happening.

Not the case here.

Why is that so?

[Miracles]

It could be an inconsistency that people shouldn't take seriously. I look at feats due to statements being usually weird to trust due to statements saying something that isn't happening.

Not the case here.

Why is that so?

The same energy from the bomb that overpowered Goku and awakened UI was the same amount of energy Kefla used, to TKO Goku and awaken UI again in Super Saiyan. Stated and shown SSJ Kefla=Spirit bomb > KKx20 Goku.

Goku awakens in UI, then powers up IN UI, Kefla responds by powering up herself to Super Saiyan 2. Piccolo states the other responded in power, Kefla is now above Goku's former level, THEN states that "BUT IF" UI Goku could draw out his power "FURTHER..." Piccolo said all this while UI and SSJ2 Kefla was powering up and he wanted UI Goku to draw more power in..UI...not in KK Blue BUT IN UI.

All this is stated and shown truth in the story. Anything else is just insignificant opinions.