Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[buutenks]

Why do you think Vegeta is stronger than Beerus and Belmond then? Because SSB Evolution arguably loses out to 2nd phase UI Omen and was definitely surpassed by 3rd phase UI Omen and FP Jiren. There's nothing anywhere stating he's near fully trained and experienced Hakaishin like Beerus and Belmond.

Belmod himself states that GoD Toppo is no different from any other GoD. So there is my evidence. Where is yours stated in the anime evidence? Cos i dont care about your personal opinion.

And Beerus said that Toppo didn't have full control over his Hakai energy because he had to keep charging it up. And Vegeta was shown fighting along side SSBKKX20 Goku and not UI Omen. The anime did no favors for Vegeta's form. If anything, they made it look weaker than it probably was meant to be by having him fight along side SSBKKX20 Goku and never seriously pushing Jiren, unlike UI.

Wow, did you seriously miss GoD Toppo stomping blue evolved Vegeta till Vegeta got that nakama power up?

[Marlowe89]

Just out of curiosity, how would people rank the following characters in terms of power?

Jiren
Vegito Blue
Beerus
Champa
UI Goku (or "MUI" Goku, whatever you prefer)
UI Omen Goku
SSB KKX20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
SS2 Kefla
SS Kefla
Fused Zamasu (Half-Corrupted)
GoD Mode Toppo

I've listed these in no particular order myself, but how would you all order them? I already have my own ranking -- which I admittedly haven't posted yet -- but I'd like to see how others would compare these guys in the overall strength hierarchy.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So what I got from this episode is that jirens full power (who is above a god of destruction) isn’t when he is shirt less, then he broke his limits and became Many times more powerful than before (again, his previous self being already above a hakaishin)... it’s insane how powerful MUI goku and LB jiren are

[Miracles]

I felt that UI just became another normal power up in this episode. His ability to deflect any danger without thinking does not give any advantage in battle against enemies with the same level of power.
It's just a different way to make Goku stronger.

I do not know who is stronger between Goku and Jiren

I've been telling you guys just like the Dragonball franchise has been telling the audience forever.

It's always about power levels!!

[Kenneth La Torre]

I felt that UI just became another normal power up in this episode. His ability to deflect any danger without thinking does not give any advantage in battle against enemies with the same level of power.
It's just a different way to make Goku stronger.

I do not know who is stronger between Goku and Jiren

I've been telling you guys just like the Dragonball franchise has been telling the audience forever.

It's always about power levels!!

Yep, that’s the ruote of dragon ball

[Kaiosama]

Belmod himself states that GoD Toppo is no different from any other GoD. So there is my evidence. Where is yours stated in the anime evidence? Cos i dont care about your personal opinion.

And Beerus said that Toppo didn't have full control over his Hakai energy because he had to keep charging it up. And Vegeta was shown fighting along side SSBKKX20 Goku and not UI Omen. The anime did no favors for Vegeta's form. If anything, they made it look weaker than it probably was meant to be by having him fight along side SSBKKX20 Goku and never seriously pushing Jiren, unlike UI.

Wow, did you seriously miss GoD Toppo stomping blue evolved Vegeta till Vegeta got that nakama power up?

Yeah, and he beat a GoD candidate who hasn't mastered his Hakaishin abilities.I mean Toppo has a freaking transformation to go into Hakaishin mode. I don't see any of the other Hakaishin transforming. And Jiren completely fodderized that achievement by easily catching his punch capable of defeating Toppo. Beerus also never reacted to Vegeta's power-up in a way that showed he was in danger of being surpassed. All he said was "well done" after he was eliminated by Jiren. I can provide much more evidence if you want to keep going.

[Miracles]

When Jiren powered up in ep 127, that was his full power. Basically, it means ep 127-129 FP Jiren>Super Blue Vegeta>Belmod>/=Beerus>/=GoD Toppo.

Hidden power unlocked Jiren and MUI Goku are on a completely different level.

Vegeta is absolutely not stronger than Belmond and Beerus.

Where is your evidence? I got anime statements backing up my claims. All you got is but muh Beerus.

Give it a rest with the Beerus wanking.

Where did the anime ever confirm Beerus was weaker than anyone?

[Raphael_Z]

Vegeta already beat someone on the level of the Gods and UI Goku and even a suppressed Jiren are shown to be above that, so there isn't anything that needs to be stated. This should be common sense at this point.

If anyone still thinks that Beerus is a relevant power at this point, then there's something wrong with their ability to comprehend simple literature. There isn't really any other way to say it, just being honest.

Comparing Toppo, an individual who JUST recently unleashed his God of Destruction transformation to someone like Beerus or Belmond who have been GoD for thousands of years is quite absurd.

Would you say with a straight face that Namek Saga SSJ1 Goku is on the same level as TOP SSJ1 Goku?

Mastered UI Goku and whatever Jiren's new form is called are PROBABLY above Beerus (let's remember that we have NEVER seen any of the current GoD go full 100% power yet) but SSB Royal Vegeta? I don't think so.

At best he is equal to Beerus but I don't think he could defeat him 1 vs 1 (plus this is Super, there's nothing stopping Beerus from starting to train seriously with Whis to unlock UI for himself).

[buutenks]

And Beerus said that Toppo didn't have full control over his Hakai energy because he had to keep charging it up. And Vegeta was shown fighting along side SSBKKX20 Goku and not UI Omen. The anime did no favors for Vegeta's form. If anything, they made it look weaker than it probably was meant to be by having him fight along side SSBKKX20 Goku and never seriously pushing Jiren, unlike UI.

Wow, did you seriously miss GoD Toppo stomping blue evolved Vegeta till Vegeta got that nakama power up?

Yeah, and he beat a GoD candidate who hasn't mastered his Hakaishin abilities.I mean Toppo has a freaking transformation to go into Hakaishin mode. I don't see any of the other Hakaishin transforming. And Jiren completely fodderized that achievement by easily catching his punch capable of defeating Toppo. Beerus also never reacted to Vegeta's power-up in a way that showed he was in danger of being surpassed. All he said was "well done" after he was eliminated by Jiren. I can provide much more evidence if you want to keep going.

Except the Jiren that catched Vegeta's punch was FP Jiren who is above Belmod. And Beerus only stated that he needs time to charge his hakai, he never said anything about his PL. And again, Belmod states that Toppo is no different from any GoD.

I have statements backing my claims, all you got is headcannon. Give it a rest. I wont agree with you.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I’m absolutely on board with people believing that MUI goku and LB jiren are above hakaishin level period, but I do not understand at all why people would believe ssb evolution Vegeta would be remotely close to Beerus or Belmod. I really don’t get it, the anime hasn’t implied such a thing.

[Bullza]

Dont mix the manga with the anime, both have different scaling.

It works out here though. Vegeta just about beat a single God of Destruction. Beerus presumably along with Quitela beat down several a piece.

On top of which Beerus also has some limited version of Ultra Instinct like Omen Goku anyway. That was shown in the manga, it wasn't shown in the anime but like in the movie and also in the manga. whis mentions that he hasn't mastered it yet. So obviously he is supposed to have to some extent.

So no I don't think Vegeta would beat Beerus at all.

[buutenks]

Vegeta is absolutely not stronger than Belmond and Beerus.

Where is your evidence? I got anime statements backing up my claims. All you got is but muh Beerus.

Give it a rest with the Beerus wanking.

Where did the anime ever confirm Beerus was weaker than anyone?

Arm wrestling match. Whis says in the anime that there is a mortal who is stronger than a GoD and that GoD is stronger than Beerus. In the anime it is Belmod, in the manga it is Quitela.

[ZombieVito]

Just out of curiosity, how would people rank the following characters in terms of power?

Jiren
Vegito Blue
Beerus
Champa
UI Goku (or "MUI" Goku, whatever you prefer)
UI Omen Goku
SSB KKX20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
SS2 Kefla
SS Kefla
Fused Zamasu (Half-Corrupted)
GoD Mode Toppo

I've listed these in no particular order myself, but how would you all order them? I already have my own ranking (which I admittedly haven't posted yet) but I'd like to see how others would compare these guys.

Let's see:

Jiren
UI Goku (or "MUI" Goku, whatever you prefer)
Vegito Blue|Beerus
Champa
Fused Zamasu (Half-Corrupted)
UI Omen Goku
SSBE Vegeta
GoD Mode Toppo
SS2 Kefla
SS Kefla
SSB KKX20 Goku

[Bullza]

Just out of curiosity, how would people rank the following characters?

Jiren
Vegito Blue
Beerus
Champa
UI Goku (or "MUI" Goku, whatever you prefer)
UI Omen Goku
SSB KKX20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
SS2 Kefla
SS Kefla
Fused Zamasu (Half-Corrupted)
GoD Mode Toppo

I've listed these in no particular order myself, but how would you all order them? I already have my own ranking (which I admittedly haven't posted yet) but I'd like to see how others would compare these guys.

Some of them can be hard to rank but I'll give it an attempt anyway.

Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku - Obviously

Jiren - Obviously. His full power strength (with shirt) is superior to a God of Destruction.

Ultra Instinct Omen Goku - Was close enough to Jiren at the end that he's gotta be next.

Super Saiyan Blue Vegito - Just based on the manga and Supreme Kai's comment and also Toyotaro being unsure who was stronger between him and Beerus.

Beerus - Stronger than the average God of Destruction due to skill and limited Ultra Instinct.

Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta - He beat a God of Destruction.

God of Destruction Toppo ~ Champa - Presumably as strong as your ordinary God of Destruction.

Super Saiyan 2 Kefla - Twice as strong as the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb. Is she stronger than a God of Destruction?....I'd assume the intent is that only Jiren was supposed to be so no.

Super Saiyan Kefla - As strong as the Universe 7 Spirit bomb.

Fused Zamasu (Half Corrupted) - He was done in by power that should be inferior to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb

Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 - This one I am most unsure of out the lot but at least on its first appearance in 109 I'd say it was definitely the weakest. Whether it powered up a lot afterward or not. I dunno.

[Kaiosama]

Wow, did you seriously miss GoD Toppo stomping blue evolved Vegeta till Vegeta got that nakama power up?

Yeah, and he beat a GoD candidate who hasn't mastered his Hakaishin abilities.I mean Toppo has a freaking transformation to go into Hakaishin mode. I don't see any of the other Hakaishin transforming. And Jiren completely fodderized that achievement by easily catching his punch capable of defeating Toppo. Beerus also never reacted to Vegeta's power-up in a way that showed he was in danger of being surpassed. All he said was "well done" after he was eliminated by Jiren. I can provide much more evidence if you want to keep going.

Except the Jiren that catched Vegeta's punch was FP Jiren who is above Belmod. And Beerus only stated that he needs time to charge his hakai, he never said anything about his PL. And again, Belmod states that Toppo is no different from any GoD.

I have statements backing my claims, all you got is headcannon. Give it a rest. I wont agree with you.

I just gave you examples from the anime proving my point, you're just using your head cannon. This discussion is over.

[Hugo Boss]

Just out of curiosity, how would people rank the following characters?

Jiren
Vegito Blue
Beerus
Champa
UI Goku (or "MUI" Goku, whatever you prefer)
UI Omen Goku
SSB KKX20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
SS2 Kefla
SS Kefla
Fused Zamasu (Half-Corrupted)
GoD Mode Toppo

I've listed these in no particular order myself, but how would you all order them? I already have my own ranking (which I admittedly haven't posted yet) but I'd like to see how others would compare these guys.

Completed Ultra Instinct Goku
Limit-Break Jiren
Full Power Jiren
Vegetto Blue
Merged Zamasu
Ultra Instinct Omen Goku
SSBE Vegeta
GoD Toppo
Full Power SS2 Kefla
SSBlue Kaioken Goku
SS2 Kefla

I will not compare them to the other GoDs yet due to lack of confirmation. Beerus should probably be stronger than Champa though.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So Concidering that the gap between FP jiren and LB jiren was deemed massive, and belmod is already weaker than FP jiren, out of all hakaishin level beings, SSB vegito included, where do they fit in that gap, if they even get past FP jiren?

[Miracles]

Where is your evidence? I got anime statements backing up my claims. All you got is but muh Beerus.

Give it a rest with the Beerus wanking.

Where did the anime ever confirm Beerus was weaker than anyone?

Arm wrestling match. Whis says in the anime that there is a mortal who is stronger than a GoD and that GoD is stronger than Beerus. In the anime it is Belmod, in the manga it is Quitela.

Whis statement was based on a "rumor". He didn't actually know which universe or god.
That rumor was immediately shot down by Beerus, stating he only lost in arm wrestling, not actual combat.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Is belmod < FP jiren a factor anymore? I mean, FP jiren became massively more powerful once he broke his limits. So is the argument of belmod possibly being weaker than beerus even now factors? Considering that limit Breaker Jiren can basically easily one shot his god now.

[jeffbr92]

I can't be the only who finds retarded that 17 and Freeza were holding on their own against Jiren. Being stomped by Goku or not, he still several times stronger than both.