Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Jiren > Roshi > Base Gohan = Super Saiyan Kefla > Perfected Super Saiyan Blue Goku = Fused Zamasu > Toppo

Toppo being the man who is a candidate for being a God of Destruction.

[Bergamo]

i don’t know how many times I read that coming from you , a lot . Usually you explain in a good manner why you hate dbs , but it’s clear that hate overpower in a negative sense your impressions towards anything coming from the subject you hate , blinds you and make anything coming from you have less weight because we know you have hate inside .

I hate Dragon Ball Super, I don't hate Dragon Ball. Ultimately, I want the series to improve, that's why I complain. Dragon Ball Super isn't moving the series in the way I think it should, so I keep complaining about all the stupid shit. I defended the series with passion back before the ToP, even the dreaded movie retellings; go back and read my posts if you want proof. Of course, you and everyone else who keeps accusing me of being biased, as if that means anything, wouldn't know because you weren't around at that point. Which is fine, you're not obligated to know about everything I post, but I'm only saying that I hate the series now because it has given me countless reasons to hate it. I haven't gone in predisposed to dislike it; in fact, it was the very opposite.

You guys act like Roshi killed Jiren , when he just dodge 3-5 punches ... for me the purpose of those scenes is just a way to build up gokus next technique by one of the most calm fighters on the series and a real master of concentration techniques, don’t look for deeper explanations about power levels or stuff like that

This doesn't even make sense thematically. Goku left Roshi out in the dust decades ago. Roshi himself stated this. Goku has continually gone ahead and gathered stronger and stronger masters to teach him new techniques and ways of bettering himself, and then when he did so, he left them in the dust as well. Now Goku has gone back and has to learn from his old master again, instead of learning from his current master. Goku has to re-surpass his master when he has already done so decades in the past. Roshi is now showing prowess he has never done in Z, in spite of having every chance and opportunity to do so; he didn't because he himself knew he could no longer keep up. Now while Roshi does have an arc this tournament about regaining his fighting spirit, such a spectacular performance completely undermines Goku's progress and Roshi's arc in the original series and Whis' position as Goku's master.

It doesn't make sense from a power standpoint and it doesn't make sense from a character standpoint. It's a badly executed idea on every level you can think of, and that's why it's being criticized. Of course this is only the strength thread, so that's what I'm focusing on for the moment, but I think the way it damages the story is far greater than the powerlevel inconsistency.

This makes perfect sense thematically. Goku still has more to learn from Roshi, because Goku can and will always improve. Herms states this on his twitter account.

[Marlowe89]

Roshi isn't fighting toe to toe with Jiren. He didn't do any damage to Jiren and Jiren eliminated him.

Just some friendly advice:

Don't bother responding to kneejerk remarks until the chapter is out. All it's doing at this point is entertaining a level of discourse that is utterly devoid of context. It won't go anywhere. It'll generate about as much discussion as the average shitposting console war on GameFAQs.

As badly as you might want to reply, and as badly as I might want to reply, let's both save it for the chapter's official release.

[Doctor.]

This makes perfect sense thematically. Goku still has more to learn from Roshi, because Goku can and will always improve. Herms states this on his twitter account.

It makes no sense thematically. Goku has learned everything he needs to learn from Roshi. The original series makes this very clear via, well, Roshi himself. Goku has more to learn, but it's not from Roshi. It's from Whis, his current master. Goku shouldn't attain UI because of Roshi, especially not because of a lesson that was already in itself a rehash of Mr. Popo's lesson all the way back in the original series (I've given that a pass because it has been fleshed out more now, but it's still clearly the same idea).

I mean, I don't know how I can explain any better how this idea comes completely out of left field and is a complete 180 regarding the progress of Goku's training up until now. There's no build-up to this. At best, it's a nice reminder that Roshi was once a talented martial artist and Goku's original teacher, but that reminder isn't worth it for everything it tramples over.

[PFM18]

People are jumping the gun. You are gonna look funny if the text justifies the panels in question.

How on God's green Earth could this be possible? This Basically goes against everything that has ever been established in Dragon Ball previously.

[prince212]

i don’t know how many times I read that coming from you , a lot . Usually you explain in a good manner why you hate dbs , but it’s clear that hate overpower in a negative sense your impressions towards anything coming from the subject you hate , blinds you and make anything coming from you have less weight because we know you have hate inside .

I hate Dragon Ball Super, I don't hate Dragon Ball. Ultimately, I want the series to improve, that's why I complain. Dragon Ball Super isn't moving the series in the way I think it should, so I keep complaining about all the stupid shit. I defended the series with passion back before the ToP, even the dreaded movie retellings; go back and read my posts if you want proof. Of course, you and everyone else who keeps accusing me of being biased, as if that means anything, wouldn't know because you weren't around at that point. Which is fine, you're not obligated to know about everything I post, but I'm only saying that I hate the series now because it has given me countless reasons to hate it. I haven't gone in predisposed to dislike it; in fact, it was the very opposite.
.

It’s ok , I didn’t mean to accuse you , it was all about hate - related to the hater don’t having full open eyes to analyze correctly what is good and bad about the subject you hate . It’s not personal , sorry if seems like it . I know you like it deep inside , otherwise you won’t be here.
May be I take so seriously when user use words like hate , garbage etc ... they are all over and I don’t understand why invest time if they really mean it . No matter if you like it in the past , if their feelings are those ....that have less sense than Roshi dodging Jiren
But peace

[prince212]

It makes no sense thematically. Goku has learned everything he needs to learn from Roshi. The original series makes this very clear via, well, Roshi himself. Goku has more to learn, but it's not from Roshi..

He didn’t learn mafuba for example , and you can always learn some from anybody or anything , don’t stop improve .
Something like that was stated in a translation of this chapter .
Original series said that ...ohhh , big deal man , open your eyes , they realized there’s more to learn , even from pilaf

[RedHeat]

>be kanzenshuu user
>hate manga
>love anime
>wait for manga leaks and live inside manga thread
>"manga is shit, i told you the anime is better"

Why are you greentexting like that on here

[dbgtFO]

Roshi is the strongest fighter in the series. Everything we've seen was set up by him in order to train Goku. Before becoming an evil emperor by Roshi's order to Zenou, Frieza was just the old refrigerator at Kame House. The angels are actually Roshi's servants and Zenou is his previous student.

Glad Zamasu did not see all of his power or...
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Roshi was holding back too. Jiren wasn't worthy of his buff form

Jiren > Roshi > Base Gohan = Super Saiyan Kefla > Perfected Super Saiyan Blue Goku = Fused Zamasu > Toppo

Toppo being the man who is a candidate for being a God of Destruction.

At this point it's a good thing I don't take it all too seriously anymore, because now I can just laugh at all the absurdities

[Miracles]

People are jumping the gun. You are gonna look funny if the text justifies the panels in question.

How on God's green Earth could this be possible? This Basically goes against everything that has ever been established in Dragon Ball previously.

There could possibly be a good explanation as to why Gohan is able to rival a Potara fusion character and Roshi's scenes with full quality trans.

[PFM18]

People are jumping the gun. You are gonna look funny if the text justifies the panels in question.

How on God's green Earth could this be possible? This Basically goes against everything that has ever been established in Dragon Ball previously.

There could possibly be a good explanation as to why Gohan is able to rival a Potara fusion character and Roshi's scenes with full quality trans.

It is possible that the Gohan ridiculous could have a good explanation, although it certainly appears unlikely that there could be a consistent, rational reason why this could be the case. However, the Roshi scene is indefensible. Nothing can explain that

[TheOne]

i don’t know how many times I read that coming from you , a lot . Usually you explain in a good manner why you hate dbs , but it’s clear that hate overpower in a negative sense your impressions towards anything coming from the subject you hate , blinds you and make anything coming from you have less weight because we know you have hate inside .

I hate Dragon Ball Super, I don't hate Dragon Ball. Ultimately, I want the series to improve, that's why I complain. Dragon Ball Super isn't moving the series in the way I think it should, so I keep complaining about all the stupid shit. I defended the series with passion back before the ToP, even the dreaded movie retellings; go back and read my posts if you want proof. Of course, you and everyone else who keeps accusing me of being biased, as if that means anything, wouldn't know because you weren't around at that point. Which is fine, you're not obligated to know about everything I post, but I'm only saying that I hate the series now because it has given me countless reasons to hate it. I haven't gone in predisposed to dislike it; in fact, it was the very opposite.

You guys act like Roshi killed Jiren , when he just dodge 3-5 punches ... for me the purpose of those scenes is just a way to build up gokus next technique by one of the most calm fighters on the series and a real master of concentration techniques, don’t look for deeper explanations about power levels or stuff like that

This doesn't even make sense thematically. Goku left Roshi out in the dust decades ago. Roshi himself stated this. Goku has continually gone ahead and gathered stronger and stronger masters to teach him new techniques and ways of bettering himself, and then when he did so, he left them in the dust as well. Now Goku has gone back and has to learn from his old master again, instead of learning from his current master. Goku has to re-surpass his master when he has already done so decades in the past. Roshi is now showing prowess he has never done in Z, in spite of having every chance and opportunity to do so; he didn't because he himself knew he could no longer keep up. Now while Roshi does have an arc this tournament about regaining his fighting spirit, such a spectacular performance completely undermines Goku's progress and Roshi's arc in the original series and Whis' position as Goku's master.

It doesn't make sense from a power standpoint and it doesn't make sense from a character standpoint. It's a badly executed idea on every level you can think of, and that's why it's being criticized. Of course this is only the strength thread, so that's what I'm focusing on for the moment, but I think the way it damages the story is far greater than the powerlevel inconsistency.

This makes perfect sense thematically. Goku still has more to learn from Roshi, because Goku can and will always improve. Herms states this on his twitter account.

More to learn from Roshi? Roshi ran out of anything to teach Goku the second he died fighting King Piccolo. Goku has been training with Deities. Planet busters. There isn’t crap Roshi can teach Goku at this point. Roshi has been useless since Dragon Ball with each opponent light years stronger than the next. Roshi standing a chance against Raditz would’ve been unheard of. He would’ve gotten stomped even quicker than Goku and Piccolo did.

The fact that you’re even trying to justify this terrible writing is absolutely absurd. All the writers had to do was sprinkle a little bit of “he’s been training off screen this whole time” and you guys eat it up. Don’t be sheep.

[Bullza]

The Gohan thing could potentially work. Again I remind people that even after Goku and Vegeta became a Super Saiyan Blue and fought Golden Frieza, Vegeta said that Gohan had more potential than either of them.

So if the chapter explains that he is actually in his Ultimate Form and chances are he will be (they wouldn't just not have him transform at all otherwise) and they explain that after training with Piccolo he brought out all this so called potential then it can work.

Dunno what they'll say about Roshi though.

[Nevaeh]

That magic weed is no joke

[Issei189]

Toyotaro will probably explain why Roshi was able to put up with Jiren even if the explanation is dumb and Gohan with Kefla, so I will wait for the full translated chapter.

[Saiga]

Saying that Roshi is doing as well as SSB Goku or Hit is assuming too much. We'll have to wait and see when the chapter comes out (as always) because from spoilers I've seen, Jiren is specifically taking care to hold back and not hurt Roshi.

To do that, he'd obviously need to hold back a lot more against Roshi than he would Goku or Hit, making that comparison flawed.

So Jiren holds back to Roshi's level to KO him safely. Roshi has UI, which makes him harder to ring out than his power would suggest. Jiren uses a bit more power and rings him out.

That doesn't break anything power-scaling wise. So again, best to wait for the actual chapter.

[Sora Saiyan]

This Roshi thing is very similar to base Goku vs SSJ2 Caulifla. For some reason the 100x increase wasn’t enough for Caulifla to speedblitz Goku because of Goku’s technique. Shortly after it’s sort of ruined becaue Base Kafla destroys SSJG Goku, but is below SSJB Goku (which has to be below 100x SSJG, surely), but that’s besides the point.
This is clearly way worse because it’s Roshi vs the stupidly insane Jiren, but it’s the same idea behind it, but with a little bit extra added from bits I’ve read.

If Roshi had the odd moment like this in the original I would give it a pass, but really it’s just an asspull. Although Jiren is super duper suppressed, there should always be a massive speed difference between the two. I always try to think of something like this happeneing against the antagonists from ‘Z’, and all I can see is Roshis head being punched off.

[Pannaliciour]

There better be a quote of Jiren beeing above GoD when he goes full power or else Jiren and this arc is literally trash imo.

[Saiga]

This Roshi thing is very similar to base Goku vs SSJ2 Caulifla. For some reason the 100x increase wasn’t enough for Caulifla to speedblitz Goku because of Goku’s technique. Shortly after it’s sort of ruined becaue Base Kafla destroys SSJG Goku, but is below SSJB Goku (which has to be below 100x SSJG, surely), but that’s besides the point.
This is clearly way worse because it’s Roshi vs the stupidly insane Jiren, but it’s the same idea behind it, but with a little bit extra added from bits I’ve read.

If Roshi had the odd moment like this in the original I would give it a pass, but really it’s just an asspull. Although Jiren is super duper suppressed, there should always be a massive speed difference between the two. I always try to think of something like this happeneing against the antagonists from ‘Z’, and all I can see is Roshis head being punched off.

Being suppressed also effects speed, so it's really a question how how suppressed Jiren is.

[Pannaliciour]

Relax you guys, wait for the chapter to come out. Master Roshi was probably holding back.