RandomGuy96 wrote:Marlowe89 wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:
The idea of it being stronger than Gohan-Buu runs into the hard caps that are base Vegetto, SS Gogeta, and an explicitly-not-any-stronger-than Ultimate Gohan. Plus maybe SS Goku vs Hit. At this point I honestly think that its initial power has either been retconned (just like Beerus's 70% statement or his statement that it was absorbed into Goku's base) or was the result of a Toei Energy Sharing moment.
Honestly, I think it's more a case of the fusion goalposts being moved rather than Super Saiyan God's specifically. Ultimate Gohan reobtains his original strength while training with Piccolo, but then he keeps training and is implied to go beyond that; Piccolo also mentions during the manga's Tournament of Power that Gohan is stronger than he ever has been. Meanwhile, the fusions always seem to be stronger in their base forms than the fusees are in their most powerful forms.
Perhaps it's the case that fusion itself doesn't have a static multiplier, possibly accounting for their components in their strongest states instead.
I might agree with that if not for the other indications that SSG isn't very strong anymore. What's absolutely undeniable is that its power has been retconned to be much lower than it was. By how much is the real question- I just think the fusion comparisons meld really well with it capping out at Ultimate Gohan level or so. Also manga Vegeta's fight with Hit.
As for Gohan, there's not really any time for him to get stronger in the anime and he's clearly stated to have only "regained his sense of battle" in the manga. He is basically said to not be any stronger than he was in the Buu arc, yet this is enough for him to take punches from SSB. Of course in the manga he's also said to grow stronger
during the fight with Kefla, but that only explains so much (especially since he of course deflected her blast before the fight started and Piccolo already said he was a relevant fighter next to the best of them before they even entered the tournament).
The manga does show that SSJG was extraordinary in the fight with Toppo. The multiplier from SSJ-3 was called useless by Goku, and a waste of time by Toppo, but even after that he was still confident that he would basically whollop Toppo when he became God, and warns him by stating “it’s an entirely different level, so don’t regret it”
The transformations being totally “useless” genuinely surprised Goku, but even though he called the prior transformations power useless he still knew that SSJG was worthy of a warning, in fact it was so powerful, that it jumped past the “useless”, and “waste of time” transformations by an insane margin, that the goalpost that is Toppo, that couldn’t be closed in on in the slightest between those forms was then immediately surpassed, by such a margin that Toppo has to reveal his true power just to stay even.
Also, the matter of Gohans strength in the manga is awkward. Kefla was no where near FP as she was made up of an incapacitated Kale, and a weakened Caulifla, and as we saw in the Zamasu arc the fusion needs to eat a Senzu to recover their power. Also, we know that Gohan was training prior to this in the manga, so his power would’ve stayed up. In the fight with Kefla Piccolo states that Gohan regained his “battle sense in the brief time” which would make sense, as Gohan training solo in the gravity chamber after not training for so long prior would probably lead to him regaining his power at the least because of how gifted he is, as is shown in the Kefla fight. Losing his skill in battle is probably unavoidable, after not training at all for a while, and then picking up again without any simulated combat, so Piccolos statement doesn’t really contradict anything.
Gohan also managed to grow stronger than ever during the fight with Kefla, but that doesn’t mean he only regained his Buu arc/BoG arc level of power prior to the tourney with all of his Gravity training. It’s still awkward to know where to place him really.
So we truly don’t know how Gohan compares to Goku, accept knowing that he’s weaker than Goku as stated by Krillin, in fact even with his “innate talent” of getting stronger than ever in that brief fight with Kefla, Krillin still wonders if he could become stronger than Goku if he quit his day job and focused on just training, so there’s still definitely a big enough gap between the two. Also, Krillin would technically know how Gohan compares to Goku, as even though he can’t sense god ki, Krillin knows that Goku is roughly in line with Freeza, and that’s somebody he can sense when they reach their true power, so because of that he actually knows how powerful the God forms are, more or less.
The anime of the other hand is a bit easier. Goku is super strong in base. We’ve seen multiple times in that how strong he is, there’s issues, sure, and I’m not a fan of how the power scaling is handled one bit, but we can’t really ignore it as it’s shown far too often. Everybody is just crazy in the anime. Even in the ToP arc we see fit Buu and Base Goku going at it, so we know that Goku’s base power wasn’t retconned there either.
