Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[JazzMazz]

She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

Though Goku had gotten stronger, that doesn't necessarily mean his Ki got any bigger, and they do make a point in clarifying, that he didn't plan on powering up anymore than he had currently.

Also, I don't see whats all that impressive about that feat since its been shown throughout the series that character who are far weaker than their opponents can still damage or kill them with a cutting or piercing attack, which Kefla's final barrage falls under.

A few examples of this include Piccolo killing Raditz, Kuririn nearly decapitating Nappa with the his kienzan, Kuririn somehow cutting off Freeza's tail in his second form with his Kienzan, Freeza's Kienzan thingies against Goku on Namek and so forth and so on.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I see the debates of who is G.o.D level has started up again. So i guess i am going to put my opinion out there based on statements.

Fused Zamasu: in the manga, he seems to be just as strong as his halo form in the anime. Since he didnt get a power up there, Manga zamasu is below G.o.D level, by quite a bit. Corrupted Fused Zamasu Was VASTLY superior to his previous self, so much so that he was able to go toe to toe with a SSB Vegito, and was only defeated by the all powerfull, omnipotent savior: Genkisword Trunks. So in my opinion, Corrupted Zamasu is at least on the lowest level of G.o.D.

Vegito Blue: In the anime, he is strong enought to fight against Corrupted Merged Zamasu, and was able to have the upperhand against him. He is so strong that the fusion cant maintain itself for more than 10 minutes. In the manga, shin even says that vegito might have surpassed beerus in power. So in my opinion, SSB Vegito is most likely G.o.D tier, possibly High G.o.D tier.

UI Goku: Nothing much can be said about him. He was never compared to the gods in terms of power, but rather that the gods have trouble using UI. That being said, he should be able to tangle with Gods. Id say that he has yet to reach the power of G.o.D, but that will change once he fights jiren again.

SS2 Kefla: i dont want to scale her to the G.o.Ds, but she should be at least near the weakest ones. Trust me, i know how much it hurts me to say that she is that powerfull, but sometimes you need to let go of bias, and face facts.

Jiren: First of all, Jiren is the only character so far that has been directly stated to be superior to his god of destruction, without any doubt. Not only that, but whis even speculates he might be above that level in general.
Jiren is at the very least a High tier G.o.D level being, possibly above G.o.D completely, but not for certain.

So if i were to scale them, it would be something like this.
Jiren > SSB vegito > UI Goku > C. Merged Zamasu > SS2 Kefla.


At the end of the tournament it might be:
Jiren >=< UI Goku > SSB Vegito > Merged Zamasu > SS2 Kefla


(BTW, SS2 Kefla would stomp Halo Merged Zamasu if we go by feats and statements)

Kefla should be above UI Goku, she was stated to be comparable to the Genki Dama in SSJ and above TV Special UI Goku in SSJ2. She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

I dont scale them based on raw power, i scaled them overall. UI Goku would always win against ssj2 kefla due to the nature of UI, there fore UI goku > Kefla. SSB vegito has the abilities of both vegeta and goku combined, that with the fact that vegeta is around beerus level in raw power makes me believe he would handle CURRENT UI Goku with his speed and power, despite lacking UI. Jiren is... well he is jiren. Not even UI can can take him on currently.

Anyway, can someone put up links or the picture where whis states that jiren may have surpassed the level pf G.o.D? Seems like some people dont even watch the episode if they didnt see that line.

[TheUltimateNinja]

She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

Though Goku had gotten stronger, that doesn't necessarily mean his Ki got any bigger, and they do make a point in clarifying, that he didn't plan on powering up anymore than he had currently.

Also, I don't see whats all that impressive about that feat since its been shown throughout the series that character who are far weaker than their opponents can still damage or kill them with a cutting or piercing attack, which Kefla's final barrage falls under.

A few examples of this include Piccolo killing Raditz, Kuririn nearly decapitating Nappa with the his kienzan, Kuririn somehow cutting off Freeza's tail in his second form with his Kienzan, Freeza's Kienzan thingies against Goku on Namek and so forth and so on.

He may not have planned to, but he did power up when he said he was starting to get the hang of Migatte no Goku'i, his aura flares and Kefla notes he's powered up.

Also, she was spamming regular ki blasts as well which have no piercing properties.

And Piccolo has to charge his Makankosappo for ages for it to be effective, Kefla was able to shoot out an essentially unlimited amount of insta-killing lasers without any charge time.

Kefla should be above UI Goku, she was stated to be comparable to the Genki Dama in SSJ and above TV Special UI Goku in SSJ2. She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

I dont scale them based on raw power, i scaled them overall. UI Goku would always win against ssj2 kefla due to the nature of UI, there fore UI goku > Kefla. SSB vegito has the abilities of both vegeta and goku combined, that with the fact that vegeta is around beerus level in raw power makes me believe he would handle CURRENT UI Goku with his speed and power, despite lacking UI. Jiren is... well he is jiren. Not even UI can can take him on currently.

Anyway, can someone put up links or the picture where whis states that jiren may have surpassed the level pf G.o.D? Seems like some people dont even watch the episode if they didnt see that line.

Vegetto isn't Beerus level in the anime, Zamasu can keep up with him and Beerus wasn't impressed by Zamasu's power.

And the only one denying Jiren is GoD level is Noah and he's ridiculously biased against Jiren.

[BWri]

She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

Though Goku had gotten stronger, that doesn't necessarily mean his Ki got any bigger, and they do make a point in clarifying, that he didn't plan on powering up anymore than he had currently.

Also, I don't see whats all that impressive about that feat since its been shown throughout the series that character who are far weaker than their opponents can still damage or kill them with a cutting or piercing attack, which Kefla's final barrage falls under.

A few examples of this include Piccolo killing Raditz, Kuririn nearly decapitating Nappa with the his kienzan, Kuririn somehow cutting off Freeza's tail in his second form with his Kienzan, Freeza's Kienzan thingies against Goku on Namek and so forth and so on.

He may not have planned to, but he did power up when he said he was starting to get the hang of Migatte no Goku'i, his aura flares and Kefla notes he's powered up.

Also, she was spamming regular ki blasts as well which have no piercing properties.

And Piccolo has to charge his Makankosappo for ages for it to be effective, Kefla was able to shoot out an essentially unlimited amount of insta-killing lasers without any charge time.

Kefla should be above UI Goku, she was stated to be comparable to the Genki Dama in SSJ and above TV Special UI Goku in SSJ2. She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

I dont scale them based on raw power, i scaled them overall. UI Goku would always win against ssj2 kefla due to the nature of UI, there fore UI goku > Kefla. SSB vegito has the abilities of both vegeta and goku combined, that with the fact that vegeta is around beerus level in raw power makes me believe he would handle CURRENT UI Goku with his speed and power, despite lacking UI. Jiren is... well he is jiren. Not even UI can can take him on currently.

Anyway, can someone put up links or the picture where whis states that jiren may have surpassed the level pf G.o.D? Seems like some people dont even watch the episode if they didnt see that line.

Vegetto isn't Beerus level in the anime, Zamasu can keep up with him and Beerus wasn't impressed by Zamasu's power.

And the only one denying Jiren is GoD level is Noah and he's ridiculously biased against Jiren.

I don't think Jiren or Vermoud are beyond Beerus as Beerus was confident about soloing the other GoDs (I doubt he could but it at least implies that he feels he's above them). That and he and Quitela were the last ones standing. I think Beerus will still be the benchmark for the normal fighters with the angels right after. The only thing that could change my mind is if Jiren has UI or some variant of it. So I'm thinking Whis > Beerus >= Jiren > Vermoud >= (in the ballpark of) SSBKKx20 Goku.

Also, does anyone have any idea on how Piccolo compares to Frost now after his training (off screen and with Gohan)? The anime seems to contradict Frost's strength. Hit initially makes it seem like he's stronger than before, but in the ToP Frost seemed to be weaker.

Edit: Apologies for mixing the manga with the anime. I sometimes use one to better understand the other (usually manga to anime) but I know you can't always rely on that.

[JazzMazz]

She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

Though Goku had gotten stronger, that doesn't necessarily mean his Ki got any bigger, and they do make a point in clarifying, that he didn't plan on powering up anymore than he had currently.

Also, I don't see whats all that impressive about that feat since its been shown throughout the series that character who are far weaker than their opponents can still damage or kill them with a cutting or piercing attack, which Kefla's final barrage falls under.

A few examples of this include Piccolo killing Raditz, Kuririn nearly decapitating Nappa with the his kienzan, Kuririn somehow cutting off Freeza's tail in his second form with his Kienzan, Freeza's Kienzan thingies against Goku on Namek and so forth and so on.

He may not have planned to, but he did power up when he said he was starting to get the hang of Migatte no Goku'i, his aura flares and Kefla notes he's powered up.

Also, she was spamming regular ki blasts as well which have no piercing properties.

And Piccolo has to charge his Makankosappo for ages for it to be effective, Kefla was able to shoot out an essentially unlimited amount of insta-killing lasers without any charge time.

I looked for the line your referring to, and the context for the line is not that Goku's UI form has powered up, but that UI is a considerable power-up from his previous forms. I can tell this because she directly mentions in the same line how his attacks are completely ineffective.
Here's the full line.
"It looks like you've powered up, but you won't beat me with attacks like that."
The context of the scene doesn't imply his UI form has powered up.

The only thing that would remotely suggest he improved was Dyspo and Toppo's interactions with Jiren, and again, those more relate to him growing more accustomed and dangerous while using UI, than UI gaining any big boost in pure power.

Its true that she was also spamming Ki blasts, but they really weren't what was deadly to Goku, it was far more those giant arcs of piercing Ki lightning that were dangerous to Goku, and were primarily what Goku avoided during that scene.

Its true that the Makankosappo takes a while to charge up, but then again, the Makankosappo doesn't exactly use up all of a persons energy, nor does it fire it out as sporadically as those dangerous ki lighnting bolts. Kefla was essentially putting all her energy into a massive AOE attack that was designed to split and cut through objects, it was these cutting edge lasers, as they were described, that could kill Goku if he was directly hit by them.

[TheSaiyanGod]

She was also capable of killing a powered up UI Goku in one attack.

Though Goku had gotten stronger, that doesn't necessarily mean his Ki got any bigger, and they do make a point in clarifying, that he didn't plan on powering up anymore than he had currently.

Also, I don't see whats all that impressive about that feat since its been shown throughout the series that character who are far weaker than their opponents can still damage or kill them with a cutting or piercing attack, which Kefla's final barrage falls under.

A few examples of this include Piccolo killing Raditz, Kuririn nearly decapitating Nappa with the his kienzan, Kuririn somehow cutting off Freeza's tail in his second form with his Kienzan, Freeza's Kienzan thingies against Goku on Namek and so forth and so on.

He may not have planned to, but he did power up when he said he was starting to get the hang of Migatte no Goku'i, his aura flares and Kefla notes he's powered up.

Also, she was spamming regular ki blasts as well which have no piercing properties.

And Piccolo has to charge his Makankosappo for ages for it to be effective, Kefla was able to shoot out an essentially unlimited amount of insta-killing lasers without any charge time.

Kefla only managed to threaten Goku in the end because of a number of factors.

She was angry because of her impotence towards Goku (we know that anger can increase the power of the Saiyans to inimitable levels), she concentrated all her energy on a Ki attack (as shown above, concentrated techniques tend to be more powerful than the user himself as Piccolo's Makankosappo and even ''normal'' techniques like Kamehameha or Galick Ho), and also created several lasers (great cutting power).

That is, this was not only the power of Kefla, it had external factors. This does not mean that the gross power of Kefla is at this level

[ZombieVito]

Also, does anyone have any idea on how Piccolo compares to Frost now after his training (off screen and with Gohan)? The anime seems to contradict Frost's strength. Hit initially makes it seem like he's stronger than before, but in the ToP Frost seemed to be weaker.

Frost is still low SS tier and Piccolo is now much more closer to base Goku than before.

If they were to fight again, I imagine the same outcome from their previous fight occurs but this time Frost would be fresh.

[JazzMazz]

So, heres how I would rank the universe 6 warriors in comparison to the universe 7 warriors.

Kefla(Full power greater than SSBKK20 Goku,Comparable to UI Goku, potentially greater, they weren't all that clear about it, it was fairly vague and up to interpretation.)
Hit(SSBKK Level, namely based off his lengthy encounter and successes during his battle with Jiren)
Kale(More powerful than SS2, perhaps more powerful than 3, but definitely less powerful than SSG)
Caulifla(Roughly as powerful as Super Saiyan 2 Goku, as per everyones states about her power)
Nameks:(I think Saonel is slightly weaker than Pirina, namely based on Pirina's performance being far stronger than Saonels, though if they are indeed both equal,then I would say they are <=Ultimate Gohan, = is based on how Pirina was able to engage in an even back and forth with Gohan in his ultimate state. Less than is based on how they were unable to gain the upper hand against Gohan. I would say this puts them roughly at Super Saiyan 2 tier)
Cabba(Super Saiyan 2 tier, though based on his reactions and action towards Caulifla he seems to be weaker than she is in the same form, however, I do think its still safe to say he is roughly in that tier for universe 7 fighters)
Magetta(Super Saiyan tier, though based on how Vegeta was able to overpower him, I think it would be safe to say he is slightly less powerful than a Super Saiyan, but instead makes up for being slightly weaker, by having insane durability)
Frost(I would put him somewhere between base form and Super Saiyan, based on the fact he was able to skirmish with Super Saiyan Vegeta, though it clearly appeared Vegeta had the upper hand in the confrontation)
Botamo(Incredibly weak, his invulnerability is really his only asset, otherwise his weaker than even the base form Saiyans)
Rota(Really don't have any idea how powerful he could be, but going by how he was brushed over so quickly, I think its safe to say his weaker than even Botamo)

[ZombieVito]

So, heres how I would rank the universe 6 warriors in comparison to the universe 7 warriors.

Kefla(Full power greater than SSBKK20 Goku,Comparable to UI Goku, potentially greater, they weren't all that clear about it, it was fairly vague and up to interpretation.)
Hit(SSBKK Level, namely based off his lengthy encounter and successes during his battle with Jiren)
Kale(More powerful than SS2, perhaps more powerful than 3, but definitely less powerful than SSG)
Caulifla(Roughly as powerful as Super Saiyan 2 Goku, as per everyones states about her power)
Nameks:(I think Saonel is slightly weaker than Pirina, namely based on Pirina's performance being far stronger than Saonels, though if they are indeed both equal,then I would say they are <=Ultimate Gohan, = is based on how Pirina was able to engage in an even back and forth with Gohan in his ultimate state. Less than is based on how they were unable to gain the upper hand against Gohan. I would say this puts them roughly at Super Saiyan 2 tier)
Cabba(Super Saiyan 2 tier, though based on his reactions and action towards Caulifla he seems to be weaker than she is in the same form, however, I do think its still safe to say he is roughly in that tier for universe 7 fighters)
Magetta(Super Saiyan tier, though based on how Vegeta was able to overpower him, I think it would be safe to say he is slightly less powerful than a Super Saiyan, but instead makes up for being slightly weaker, by having insane durability)
Frost(I would put him somewhere between base form and Super Saiyan, based on the fact he was able to skirmish with Super Saiyan Vegeta, though it clearly appeared Vegeta had the upper hand in the confrontation)
Botamo(Incredibly weak, his invulnerability is really his only asset, otherwise his weaker than even the base form Saiyans)
Rota(Really don't have any idea how powerful he could be, but going by how he was brushed over so quickly, I think its safe to say his weaker than even Botamo)

The U6 Nameks are stronger than the girls. They matched Ultimate Gohan so they are Blue tier.

[JazzMazz]

So, heres how I would rank the universe 6 warriors in comparison to the universe 7 warriors.

Kefla(Full power greater than SSBKK20 Goku,Comparable to UI Goku, potentially greater, they weren't all that clear about it, it was fairly vague and up to interpretation.)
Hit(SSBKK Level, namely based off his lengthy encounter and successes during his battle with Jiren)
Kale(More powerful than SS2, perhaps more powerful than 3, but definitely less powerful than SSG)
Caulifla(Roughly as powerful as Super Saiyan 2 Goku, as per everyones states about her power)
Nameks:(I think Saonel is slightly weaker than Pirina, namely based on Pirina's performance being far stronger than Saonels, though if they are indeed both equal,then I would say they are <=Ultimate Gohan, = is based on how Pirina was able to engage in an even back and forth with Gohan in his ultimate state. Less than is based on how they were unable to gain the upper hand against Gohan. I would say this puts them roughly at Super Saiyan 2 tier)
Cabba(Super Saiyan 2 tier, though based on his reactions and action towards Caulifla he seems to be weaker than she is in the same form, however, I do think its still safe to say he is roughly in that tier for universe 7 fighters)
Magetta(Super Saiyan tier, though based on how Vegeta was able to overpower him, I think it would be safe to say he is slightly less powerful than a Super Saiyan, but instead makes up for being slightly weaker, by having insane durability)
Frost(I would put him somewhere between base form and Super Saiyan, based on the fact he was able to skirmish with Super Saiyan Vegeta, though it clearly appeared Vegeta had the upper hand in the confrontation)
Botamo(Incredibly weak, his invulnerability is really his only asset, otherwise his weaker than even the base form Saiyans)
Rota(Really don't have any idea how powerful he could be, but going by how he was brushed over so quickly, I think its safe to say his weaker than even Botamo)

The U6 Nameks are stronger than the girls. They matched Ultimate Gohan so they are Blue tier.

I definitely agree they are stronger than Caulifla, I'm just unsure if they are truly blue tier, or if Gohan for that matter is truly blue tier. We have been mislead in the past e.g, everyone believed Kale when raged out was Blue tier, but that was later shown not to be the case. I guess we'll just have to wait for more info before we can truly say how strong Gohan, and then draw conclusions to how strong the Nameks truly are.

[Boku no Hitto]

Reason why i don't put Gohan at ssjb is because characters in the past have been shown to take hits from people far above their weight class. Gohan and Vegeta particularly. Gohan against buutenks and base vegeta against kid buu. Goku was far stronger than gohan in blue but gohan is resilient and took the hits and gave some but in the end a single hit from doubled up goku ended the fight.

Kale and caulifla are the same way. Caulifla less so. While caulifla is definitely the more skilled, she's only roughly as strong as ssj2 if he's not really trying. I base this off their first fight when goku barely even powered up or did his usual ATATATATA's. Cauli pushed goku this far only because goku was running on fumes. kale is high ssj3 tier as caulifla alone could be taken down with pure skill on base gokus part, who only went ssj3 as a reaction to kale but even then a tired god goku(ssj3 would destroy his stamina even more than UI, also god seems easier to do for goku) beat them handily. I use this because goku has only used blue to finish fights or to move Jiren.

Goku is a known sandbagger. He's done this since early dragon ball. So i put it like this: ssj2 cauli is weaker than ssj2 goku and with his combat experience and mastery of the forms he's able to make the gap seem wider where even when drained he's comfortably superior. Kale is a tank. Much stronger than ssj2 goku but because her ki is so wild and berserk goku goes blue to remain comfortably superior until he can guage her. So even if she blitzes and ragdolls goku, goku is simply stronger and more durable so he isn't damaged at all in the aftermath. More mildly annoyed. Fast forward to the 2v1, goku knows kale's power and potential so instead of dropping dead with ssj3 he goes god and is able to handle both though still capable of being damaged because the gap isn't that wide.

So i see it as

Fresh God goku > tired god goku > controled Kale > berzerk kale = fresh ssj2 Goku => ssj kale > tired ssj2 goku > ssj2 caulifla >< Goku

[TheUltimateNinja]

And the only one denying Jiren is GoD level is Noah and he's ridiculously biased against Jiren.

I don't think Jiren or Vermoud are beyond Beerus as Beerus was confident about soloing the other GoDs (I doubt he could but it at least implies that he feels he's above them). That and he and Quitela were the last ones standing. I think Beerus will still be the benchmark for the normal fighters with the angels right after. The only thing that could change my mind is if Jiren has UI or some variant of it. So I'm thinking Whis > Beerus >= Jiren > Vermoud >= (in the ballpark of) SSBKKx20 Goku.

Also, does anyone have any idea on how Piccolo compares to Frost now after his training (off screen and with Gohan)? The anime seems to contradict Frost's strength. Hit initially makes it seem like he's stronger than before, but in the ToP Frost seemed to be weaker.

Edit: Apologies for mixing the manga with the anime. I sometimes use one to better understand the other (usually manga to anime) but I know you can't always rely on that.

But the Genki Dama scene implies Jiren is far above Belmond. Even though he knows Jiren is above him, Belmond still says the Genki Dama had him worried, and Jiren easily dealt with it while suppressed. So the power scale should be something like Jiren > Jiren (Suppressed) > Genki Dama > Jiren (Belmond's estimate) > Belmond.

Unless Belmond is the weakest GoD and all the others are far above him Jiren should outclass the others as well.

Also, Beerus was able to put up a fight against the others because he had some level of mastery over Migatte no Goku'i, not because he outclassed them in raw power.

I looked for the line your referring to, and the context for the line is not that Goku's UI form has powered up, but that UI is a considerable power-up from his previous forms. I can tell this because she directly mentions in the same line how his attacks are completely ineffective.
Here's the full line.
"It looks like you've powered up, but you won't beat me with attacks like that."
The context of the scene doesn't imply his UI form has powered up.

The only thing that would remotely suggest he improved was Dyspo and Toppo's interactions with Jiren, and again, those more relate to him growing more accustomed and dangerous while using UI, than UI gaining any big boost in pure power.

However right after this Goku starts dealing damage to Kefla whereas he was unable to hurt her before, and it isn't simply that his technique improved, even when she managed to block one of his hits her arm quivered, implying the power behind his attacks increased greatly.

[JazzMazz]

And the only one denying Jiren is GoD level is Noah and he's ridiculously biased against Jiren.

I don't think Jiren or Vermoud are beyond Beerus as Beerus was confident about soloing the other GoDs (I doubt he could but it at least implies that he feels he's above them). That and he and Quitela were the last ones standing. I think Beerus will still be the benchmark for the normal fighters with the angels right after. The only thing that could change my mind is if Jiren has UI or some variant of it. So I'm thinking Whis > Beerus >= Jiren > Vermoud >= (in the ballpark of) SSBKKx20 Goku.

Also, does anyone have any idea on how Piccolo compares to Frost now after his training (off screen and with Gohan)? The anime seems to contradict Frost's strength. Hit initially makes it seem like he's stronger than before, but in the ToP Frost seemed to be weaker.

Edit: Apologies for mixing the manga with the anime. I sometimes use one to better understand the other (usually manga to anime) but I know you can't always rely on that.

But the Genki Dama scene implies Jiren is far above Belmond. Even though he knows Jiren is above him, Belmond still says the Genki Dama had him worried, and Jiren easily dealt with it while suppressed. So the power scale should be something like Jiren > Jiren (Suppressed) > Genki Dama > Jiren (Belmond's estimate) > Belmond.

Unless Belmond is the weakest GoD and all the others are far above him Jiren should outclass the others as well.

Also, Beerus was able to put up a fight against the others because he had some level of mastery over Migatte no Goku'i, not because he outclassed them in raw power.

I looked for the line your referring to, and the context for the line is not that Goku's UI form has powered up, but that UI is a considerable power-up from his previous forms. I can tell this because she directly mentions in the same line how his attacks are completely ineffective.
Here's the full line.
"It looks like you've powered up, but you won't beat me with attacks like that."
The context of the scene doesn't imply his UI form has powered up.

The only thing that would remotely suggest he improved was Dyspo and Toppo's interactions with Jiren, and again, those more relate to him growing more accustomed and dangerous while using UI, than UI gaining any big boost in pure power.

However right after this Goku starts dealing damage to Kefla whereas he was unable to hurt her before, and it isn't simply that his technique improved, even when she managed to block one of his hits her arm quivered, implying the power behind his attacks increased greatly.

Um, thats not really what happened. His attacks were still wimpy, thats the only reason why Kelfa was able to get up from the beating, he was still suffering the same problem he had when he attacked Kefla initially, and nowhere does it really show that Goku has gotten any stronger, all his done is injure Kefla by beating the crap out of her with loads of ineffective, though still really damaging attacks.

EDIT:From what I've seen of the manga, it seems that 17 is around about Super Saiyan 3 tier, as thats the form Goku primarily fights him in.

[Bullza]

So there's scans of the new chapter out which shows Goku as a Super Saiyan 3 fighting against Android 17.

Definitely looks like he's fighting much more seriously compared to the anime. Doesn't look like he's stomping though but Goku does have him stop the fight for whatever reason. He doesn't use Blue form there.

It looks likes above Super Saiyan 3 at least.

[BWri]

Reason why i don't put Gohan at ssjb is because characters in the past have been shown to take hits from people far above their weight class. Gohan and Vegeta particularly. Gohan against buutenks and base vegeta against kid buu. Goku was far stronger than gohan in blue but gohan is resilient and took the hits and gave some but in the end a single hit from doubled up goku ended the fight.

Kale and caulifla are the same way. Caulifla less so. While caulifla is definitely the more skilled, she's only roughly as strong as ssj2 if he's not really trying. I base this off their first fight when goku barely even powered up or did his usual ATATATATA's. Cauli pushed goku this far only because goku was running on fumes. kale is high ssj3 tier as caulifla alone could be taken down with pure skill on base gokus part, who only went ssj3 as a reaction to kale but even then a tired god goku(ssj3 would destroy his stamina even more than UI, also god seems easier to do for goku) beat them handily. I use this because goku has only used blue to finish fights or to move Jiren.

Goku is a known sandbagger. He's done this since early dragon ball. So i put it like this: ssj2 cauli is weaker than ssj2 goku and with his combat experience and mastery of the forms he's able to make the gap seem wider where even when drained he's comfortably superior. Kale is a tank. Much stronger than ssj2 goku but because her ki is so wild and berserk goku goes blue to remain comfortably superior until he can guage her. So even if she blitzes and ragdolls goku, goku is simply stronger and more durable so he isn't damaged at all in the aftermath. More mildly annoyed. Fast forward to the 2v1, goku knows kale's power and potential so instead of dropping dead with ssj3 he goes god and is able to handle both though still capable of being damaged because the gap isn't that wide.

So i see it as

Fresh God goku > tired god goku > controled Kale > berzerk kale = fresh ssj2 Goku => ssj kale > tired ssj2 goku > ssj2 caulifla >< Goku

I see it this way as well and agree that Goku was indeed sandbagging vs. Caulifla and at best she matches with a tired SSJ2 Goku which isn't horrible. I thought the scaling in that 2v1 fight was actually brilliant, some of the best Super has done followed immediately by the U6 Namekians who were also scaled quite well in comparison to Piccolo and Gohan. The final piece of the puzzle is seeing how Gohan stacks up in comparison to SSB. Even though he's been conservative all tournament, I believe he is stronger than Caulifla but not sure how he stacks up to Kale.

Frost is still low SS tier and Piccolo is now much more closer to base Goku than before.

If they were to fight again, I imagine the same outcome from their previous fight occurs but this time Frost would be fresh.

You basing it off of the Explosive Wave feat when he and Gohan fought Goku? I can see Piccolo at that level and the same outcome occuring vs. a fresh Frost. But IDK, if Piccolo's pushing SSJ2 Gohan and getting the better of him (tactically, I know), I'm thinking he's at least SSJ Goku level (current) and in the same ballpark as the U6 tourney SSJ Goku. I also don't think his Explosive Wave was full power considering Tien was on the arena. I guess it all comes down to where Gohan compares to Goku's forms.

[Lord Beerus]

So there's scans of the new chapter out which shows Goku as a Super Saiyan 3 fighting against Android 17.

Definitely looks like he's fighting much more seriously compared to the anime. Doesn't look like he's stomping though but Goku does have him stop the fight for whatever reason. He doesn't use Blue form there.

It looks likes above Super Saiyan 3 at least.

Considering the whole chapter hasn't be revealed, I'd be a bit cautious to place #17 at SSJ3 Goku level just yet. But it does, for all intents and purposes, appear to be the case in the latest chapter. But just be a bit weary...

[Cetra]

She should be well above Vegetto, I doubt he was as powerful as the GD, and even if he was he surely wasn't over twice as powerful as it like Kefla. There's also the fact that Beerus was entirely unperturbed by Zamasu's ki whereas Belmond who is implied to be above Beerus in the anime admits that the GD had him worried, and he was talking about Jiren who he knows is above him.

It is quite convenient that you "forget", even though Beerus does not say a thing, Kaioushin makes an obvious statement about Zamasu that includes Beerus who he knew.

[Sora Saiyan]

So there's scans of the new chapter out which shows Goku as a Super Saiyan 3 fighting against Android 17.

Definitely looks like he's fighting much more seriously compared to the anime. Doesn't look like he's stomping though but Goku does have him stop the fight for whatever reason. He doesn't use Blue form there.

It looks likes above Super Saiyan 3 at least.

I think Goku was testing 17, and he decided to stop the fight once he realised 17 was at a good enough level. I don’t think 17 is much above SSJ3, if at all. It doesn’t seem like Goku was going all out, and 17 appeared to be going for the kill.
At best, I would say the placement for 17 would go as follows.
FP Toppo >/= God Goku > Surpressed Toppo > 17 >/= SSJ3 Goku

[TheUltimateNinja]

She should be well above Vegetto, I doubt he was as powerful as the GD, and even if he was he surely wasn't over twice as powerful as it like Kefla. There's also the fact that Beerus was entirely unperturbed by Zamasu's ki whereas Belmond who is implied to be above Beerus in the anime admits that the GD had him worried, and he was talking about Jiren who he knows is above him.

It is quite convenient that you "forget", even though Beerus does not say a thing, Kaioushin makes an obvious statement about Zamasu that includes Beerus who he knew.

Kaioshin never saw Beerus go all out. And I think Beerus himself would have a better idea of how he stacks up against Zamasu.

[wolflonnie]

And there we have it.
Android 17 is a bit stronger than a much stronger Goku SSJ3 (in comparison to the past), so it kind of makes sense he's as strong as a powered-up Gohan.