Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Merged Zamasu's power level was something I never quite understood.

It's much easier to gauge his power in the Manga.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Vegeta already beat a God of Destruction and he's only comparable to SSB Kaiokenx20. And any variant of Ultra Instinct Goku is superior to that Vegeta.

So I don't know how people are seriously claiming that Beerus or any God of Destruction is still relevant to the powerscale. They've been old news for a while now.

The fact that you keep saying this it does not make it true.

Vegeta put everything he had into defeating Toppo who he was just a newborn and inexperienced God. Can't believe that people still believe that Toppo is strong or stronger than Belmod or the other Gods. Toppo can't even use UI, while the other Gods can. The Gods weren't even impressed or scared by Vegeta power.

Vegeta and Toppo are God level? yes. They are strong or stronger than the current Hakaishins? No. Same omen UI Goku.

Vegeta had enough power to completely dominate Toppo, a Hakaishin. So he was considerably stronger than one who by himself is already comparable to the Hakaishins.

It does not matter if Toppo was inexperienced with his powers, it means he will not know how to use correctly, not that he is weaker.
He was still someone comparable to the Hakaishins.

I do not believe Toppo is stronger than Vermoud, but I do not understand why he could not be on a similar level. Nothing prevents this.

And the fact that the Gods are not impressed by Vegeta's power with the new form does not mean much. Before that, Vermoud had been impressed only by Vegeta's Final Flash against Jiren

[Kenneth La Torre]

Merged Zamasu's power level was something I never quite understood.

It's much easier to gauge his power in the Manga.

Probably his mutated form fluctuates in power.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Next episode I want Goku to say, "I don't believe it, he's even stronger than Raditz!" when Jiren unleashes his true power.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Next episode I want Goku to say, "I don't believe it, he's even stronger than Raditz!" when Jiren unleashes his true power.

Nah, more like “its impossible, his energy is even higher than Kami”

[ZenkaiBoosts]

"I don't know how people are seriously claiming that Beerus or any God of Destruction is still relevant to the powerscale. They've been old news for a while now."


This 100%

In battle of the gods, SSgod Goku was fairly competitive against Beerus, and Beerus said he was going 70%

You really think 30% more power would suddenly put Beerus on equal footing with OMEN Goku (let alone Mastered UI Goku)

It has already been basically stated that Jiren>>>Belmon>>>Beerus

In episode 110, Omen Goku had superior defense to Jiren. Jiren couldn't land 1 shot. Not much else happened before Goku lost his OMEN form.

We know however that every time Goku awakened Omen, Goku would become stronger

The 2nd time Goku got Omen against Kefla, Goku was much stronger then the first time he got it against Jiren

And in Goku's 3rd strongest most potent awakening of Omen, Goku was finally able to legit hurt Jiren

However based on 129 previews, it's being implied that "full power Jiren" will ultimately still be too much for Omen Goku

And that he will force Goku into a desperate situation that will lead to Goku transforming into mastered UI

So based on the events we have witnessed, we can say that Jiren is still ahead of Goku's full Omen awakened form (3rd awakening)

That puts both Jiren and Goku above Belmon and Beerus

However we dont even need to speculate or debate about the next point, because the SUMMARY for 129 or 130 OUT RIGHT STATES that not only is Jiren stronger then the gods, UI mastered UI Goku has far surpassed all the gods too. That's an actual fact now. It's been explicitly stated

The gods are old news now


I actually agree with Kenneth that in order to see how strong "full power Jiren" actually is, we have to see how he does against mastered UI Goku

Full power Jiren apparently still beats Omen Goku. But mastered UI Goku will be a different story

I actually really feel that mastered UI Goku will be APPROACHING the lower tier of angels. UI is an angle thing.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Beerus and the gods are no longer anything truly special power wise now.

The ONLY thing that separates them is that they have access to hakai energy

I can agree that it would be a different story in an actual fight with Beerus actually using hakai against Goku and trying to kill Goku....

But them just sparring, 3rd awakened Omen Goku would wipe the floor with Beerus, let alone mastered UI Goku who's far superior to Beerus in every aspect of skill, speed, strength, power etc

[Hawk9211]

"I don't know how people are seriously claiming that Beerus or any God of Destruction is still relevant to the powerscale. They've been old news for a while now."


This 100%

In battle of the gods, SSgod Goku was fairly competitive against Beerus, and Beerus said he was going 70%

You really think 30% more power would suddenly put Beerus on equal footing with OMEN Goku (let alone Mastered UI Goku)

It has already been basically stated that Jiren>>>Belmon>>>Beerus

In episode 110, Omen Goku had superior defense to Jiren. Jiren couldn't land 1 shot. Not much else happened before Goku lost his OMEN form.

We know however that every time Goku awakened Omen, Goku would become stronger

The 2nd time Goku got Omen against Kefla, Goku was much stronger then the first time he got it against Jiren

And in Goku's 3rd strongest most potent awakening of Omen, Goku was finally able to legit hurt Jiren

However based on 129 previews, it's being implied that "full power Jiren" will ultimately still be too much for Omen Goku

And that he will force Goku into a desperate situation that will lead to Goku transforming into mastered UI

So based on the events we have witnessed, we can say that Jiren is still ahead of Goku's full Omen awakened form (3rd awakening)

That puts both Jiren and Goku above Belmon and Beerus

However we dont even need to speculate or debate about the next point, because the SUMMARY for 129 or 130 OUT RIGHT STATES that not only is Jiren stronger then the gods, UI mastered UI Goku has far surpassed all the gods too. That's an actual fact now. It's been explicitly stated

The gods are old news now


I actually agree with Kenneth that in order to see how strong "full power Jiren" actually is, we have to see how he does against mastered UI Goku

Full power Jiren apparently still beats Omen Goku. But mastered UI Goku will be a different story

I actually really feel that mastered UI Goku will be APPROACHING the lower tier of angels. UI is an angle thing.

The 70% line was only in movies.It was neither in the super anime nor manga,it’s essentially non canon when discussing either manga or anime.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

"I don't know how people are seriously claiming that Beerus or any God of Destruction is still relevant to the powerscale. They've been old news for a while now."


This 100%

In battle of the gods, SSgod Goku was fairly competitive against Beerus, and Beerus said he was going 70%

You really think 30% more power would suddenly put Beerus on equal footing with OMEN Goku (let alone Mastered UI Goku)

It has already been basically stated that Jiren>>>Belmon>>>Beerus

In episode 110, Omen Goku had superior defense to Jiren. Jiren couldn't land 1 shot. Not much else happened before Goku lost his OMEN form.

We know however that every time Goku awakened Omen, Goku would become stronger

The 2nd time Goku got Omen against Kefla, Goku was much stronger then the first time he got it against Jiren

And in Goku's 3rd strongest most potent awakening of Omen, Goku was finally able to legit hurt Jiren

However based on 129 previews, it's being implied that "full power Jiren" will ultimately still be too much for Omen Goku

And that he will force Goku into a desperate situation that will lead to Goku transforming into mastered UI

So based on the events we have witnessed, we can say that Jiren is still ahead of Goku's full Omen awakened form (3rd awakening)

That puts both Jiren and Goku above Belmon and Beerus

However we dont even need to speculate or debate about the next point, because the SUMMARY for 129 or 130 OUT RIGHT STATES that not only is Jiren stronger then the gods, UI mastered UI Goku has far surpassed all the gods too. That's an actual fact now. It's been explicitly stated

The gods are old news now


I actually agree with Kenneth that in order to see how strong "full power Jiren" actually is, we have to see how he does against mastered UI Goku

Full power Jiren apparently still beats Omen Goku. But mastered UI Goku will be a different story

I actually really feel that mastered UI Goku will be APPROACHING the lower tier of angels. UI is an angle thing.

The 70% line was only in movies.It was neither in the super anime nor manga,it’s essentially non canon when discussing either manga or anime.

It's also been stated or implied many times that Jiren>>Belmon>>Jiren.

And regardless of that, we now have official episode 129 or 130 summaries stating Jiren and Goku>>>>the gods...Especially that mastered UI Goku has far surpassed the gods...its now a fact. Its been explicitly stated so

[wolflonnie]

Beerus has been secretly upgraded in power ever since Battle of Gods, to the absurdest of the degrees, almost ruining a part of his character, in my opinion. And I quite like him.
It has been stated that FP Jiren is superior to GoDs, and I see no reason to still keep the purple cat above Goku.
Vegeta, in his Royal Blue, managed to defeat a newbie GoD on his own. Full UI Goku is far superior than that. So I see no reason anymore to have Beerus stronger than him. He's old news.

[Hawk9211]

"I don't know how people are seriously claiming that Beerus or any God of Destruction is still relevant to the powerscale. They've been old news for a while now."


This 100%

In battle of the gods, SSgod Goku was fairly competitive against Beerus, and Beerus said he was going 70%

You really think 30% more power would suddenly put Beerus on equal footing with OMEN Goku (let alone Mastered UI Goku)

It has already been basically stated that Jiren>>>Belmon>>>Beerus

In episode 110, Omen Goku had superior defense to Jiren. Jiren couldn't land 1 shot. Not much else happened before Goku lost his OMEN form.

We know however that every time Goku awakened Omen, Goku would become stronger

The 2nd time Goku got Omen against Kefla, Goku was much stronger then the first time he got it against Jiren

And in Goku's 3rd strongest most potent awakening of Omen, Goku was finally able to legit hurt Jiren

However based on 129 previews, it's being implied that "full power Jiren" will ultimately still be too much for Omen Goku

And that he will force Goku into a desperate situation that will lead to Goku transforming into mastered UI

So based on the events we have witnessed, we can say that Jiren is still ahead of Goku's full Omen awakened form (3rd awakening)

That puts both Jiren and Goku above Belmon and Beerus

However we dont even need to speculate or debate about the next point, because the SUMMARY for 129 or 130 OUT RIGHT STATES that not only is Jiren stronger then the gods, UI mastered UI Goku has far surpassed all the gods too. That's an actual fact now. It's been explicitly stated

The gods are old news now


I actually agree with Kenneth that in order to see how strong "full power Jiren" actually is, we have to see how he does against mastered UI Goku

Full power Jiren apparently still beats Omen Goku. But mastered UI Goku will be a different story

I actually really feel that mastered UI Goku will be APPROACHING the lower tier of angels. UI is an angle thing.

The 70% line was only in movies.It was neither in the super anime nor manga,it’s essentially non canon when discussing either manga or anime.

It's also been stated or implied many times that Jiren>>Belmon>>Jiren.

And regardless of that, we now have official episode 129 or 130 summaries stating Jiren and Goku>>>>the gods...Especially that mastered UI Goku has far surpassed the gods...its now a fact. Its been explicitly stated so

Tbh I don’t get involved in super power level debates.I just wanted to correct an useless outdated number.I know about summaries but I simply don’t want to debate.

[Legion]

Beerus and the gods are no longer anything truly special power wise now.

The ONLY thing that separates them is that they have access to hakai energy

I can agree that it would be a different story in an actual fight with Beerus actually using hakai against Goku and trying to kill Goku....

But them just sparring, 3rd awakened Omen Goku would wipe the floor with Beerus, let alone mastered UI Goku who's far superior to Beerus in every aspect of skill, speed, strength, power etc

I think that you don't know what you're talking about.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Beerus and the gods are no longer anything truly special power wise now.

The ONLY thing that separates them is that they have access to hakai energy

I can agree that it would be a different story in an actual fight with Beerus actually using hakai against Goku and trying to kill Goku....

But them just sparring, 3rd awakened Omen Goku would wipe the floor with Beerus, let alone mastered UI Goku who's far superior to Beerus in every aspect of skill, speed, strength, power etc

I think that you don't know what you're talking about.

Vegeta wasted a GoD by himself and he's a flea compared to Goku, Beerus would get mopped up by Goku Hakai or not.

[Legion]

Beerus and the gods are no longer anything truly special power wise now.

The ONLY thing that separates them is that they have access to hakai energy

I can agree that it would be a different story in an actual fight with Beerus actually using hakai against Goku and trying to kill Goku....

But them just sparring, 3rd awakened Omen Goku would wipe the floor with Beerus, let alone mastered UI Goku who's far superior to Beerus in every aspect of skill, speed, strength, power etc

I think that you don't know what you're talking about.

Vegeta wasted a GoD by himself and he's a flea compared to Goku, Beerus would get mopped up by Goku Hakai or not.

Vegeta didn't "wasted" anyone. He used a "suicide move" for a reason.

MUI Goku is stronger than Beerus/Gods probably but that he can stomp them is headcanon.

Goku wank is just out of control here.

[Rally 07]

In battle of the gods, SSgod Goku was fairly competitive against Beerus, and Beerus said he was going 70%

I guess you're gonna pull a V&J Reviews huh?

I actually really feel that mastered UI Goku will be APPROACHING the lower tier of angels. UI is an angle thing.

And just because Ultra Instinct is natural with the Angels, doesn't mean Gokou is on they're level. That's very...... well, vexing to claim. Hell, Gokou isn't even confirmed to surpass even Beerus yet dude. And even further you have Angels with the power far beyond the Hakaishins. That's just purely your own headcanon and cluelessness. You should at least prove Gokou is Angel level with some substantial evidence to back such powerful claims.

[ernesth100]

I'm pretty sure both Goku and Jiren are God of Destruction level now

Edit: And Vegeta

[ekrolo2]

How plausible is it that the new forms follow the old, SEG multipliers? Like how SS2 is twice as strong as an SS1 or how SS3 is four times stronger than 2. Going by the trend, the multipliers would look like this:

SS1 - x50 Base
SS2 - x100 Base (x2 multiplier from SS1)
SS3 - x400 Base (x4 multiplier from SS2)
SSGod - x3200 Base (x8 multiplier from SS3)
SSBlue - x51200 Base (x16 multiplier from SSGod)

How plausible is this?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

How plausible is it that the new forms follow the old, SEG multipliers? Like how SS2 is twice as strong as an SS1 or how SS3 is four times stronger than 2. Going by the trend, the multipliers would look like this:

SS1 - x50 Base
SS2 - x100 Base (x2 multiplier from SS1)
SS3 - x400 Base (x4 multiplier from SS2)
SSGod - x3200 Base (x8 multiplier from SS3)
SSBlue - x51200 Base (x16 multiplier from SSGod)

How plausible is this?

For the god forms, possibly. Of course, one has to also make the concession that the boost from normal forms to god forms isn't the same as when Goku first became a SSG if they're to work in that same multiplicative manner, or else Potara Fusions would never be able to overtake god forms like they currently are able to.

Personally speaking, I have SSG the form (and not the initial ritual version from Battle of Gods that gave a much higher proportional boost) to be a little over 10 times stronger than Goku's current SS3 power, about 5000 times that of Goku's base strength. I then have SSB to be about 5 times stronger than that. This is based on how the manga seems to treat SSB's power difference over SSG, as well as treating Goku Black's SSR form as a 50 times jump from his base form that's 500 times stronger than Goku's own.

The Ultra Instinct, however, isn't a state that I'd assign a multiplication factor to. It just works too differently to have a traditional power level assigned to it, in Watsonian AND Doylist terms.

[GodVegetto91]

I agree. Gods of Destruction are obsolete and irrelevant now. Episode 126 made that quite clear, Beyond Blue Vegeta straight out defeated a God of Destruction in hand to hand combat, and even managed to overpower, nullify, and even DESTROY the DESTRUCTION Energy from Toppo. Vegeta’s own concentrated energy straight up overpowered the Hakai! And later again, with Vegeta’s Final Explosion attack, he overpowered Toppo’s FULL POWER Hakai Blast. It was quite clearly Toei’s way of telling the audience that Gods of Destruction are obsolete now and have been surpassed. And this was just BeyondBlue Vegeta! We aren’t even talking about Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku yet, who is CLEARLY wayyyyy above SSJ Blue 2 Vegeta! Ultra Instinct is an Angel thing! And that’s why it’s so far above anything else includings Gods of Destruction. The magazine cover that came out last week that Herms translated clearly said that “UI is a power SURPASSING the Gods of Destruction!” They even stated that it was a realm GoDs cannot reach. They didn’t say “easily reach” No. They flat out stated that Gods of Destruction CANNOT achieve full mastery over Ultra Instinct. So i hope that throws that stupid theory out of the window that fans had concering some of the top tier Gods to possess Ultra Instinct. They don’t. End of story. Period.

Ultra Instinct is an Angel thing afterall. And Goku is now Angel level. He may not be on the level of Whis or the others, but he is definitely up there. Low Tier Angel level is an understatement. It’s clear as day. He even has Silver/White hair. Now why do you think they gave him that? You tell me.

[Helios518]

How plausible is it that the new forms follow the old, SEG multipliers? Like how SS2 is twice as strong as an SS1 or how SS3 is four times stronger than 2. Going by the trend, the multipliers would look like this:

SS1 - x50 Base
SS2 - x100 Base (x2 multiplier from SS1)
SS3 - x400 Base (x4 multiplier from SS2)
SSGod - x3200 Base (x8 multiplier from SS3)
SSBlue - x51200 Base (x16 multiplier from SSGod)

How plausible is this?

Not plausible, at least for SSJG. Gohan alone is a good bit more than 8x SSJ3 Goku.