Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Doctor.
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 9960
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Doctor. » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:00 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
It goes against the core idea of how the Ultra Instinct is supposed to work.

It does, but a "raw power boost" is how they portray it. Otherwise it wouldn't be a transformation with an appearance change (Whis and Beerus don't change when using it) and Goku would be able to use his Super Saiyan forms in conjunction with the technique. The fact that he's able to damage people like Jiren and Kefla whilst in "base" shows that his raw power has increased.

It's supposed to be a technique but it's being treated as a form. And forms in this series raise your stats, that's how they work.

PerhapsTheOtherOne
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1532
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:13 pm

Doctor. wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
It goes against the core idea of how the Ultra Instinct is supposed to work.

It does, but a "raw power boost" is how they portray it. Otherwise it wouldn't be a transformation with an appearance change (Whis and Beerus don't change when using it) and Goku would be able to use his Super Saiyan forms in conjunction with the technique. The fact that he's able to damage people like Jiren and Kefla whilst in "base" shows that his raw power has increased.

It's supposed to be a technique but it's being treated as a form. And forms in this series raise your stats, that's how they work.

This form has also shown nuances that differentiate it from the traditional Saiyan form.

Attacks aren't automatically made stronger, one's durability isn't increased, and the expenditure of Ki and said expenditure's aftereffects are strange in-universe.

The Ultra Instinct has so far never had any concrete evidence to suggest that it's actually increasing the amount of one's Ki when utilized, which is what can be inferred from most other forms. Also, I mentioned "channeling" of Ki instead of power increase because I believe this is the solution to the "damaging others" conundrum.

Besides the fact that hurting other fighters no longer requires as small of a difference in power levels when your Ki is smaller based on how things have gone so far in the anime, efficient channeling of Ki through your body, along with well-placed blows with the right amount of force behind them, can basically subvert power levels entirely, which would help explain why the gods fear the technique itself and not the fact that it provides some measurable power increase.

User avatar
Doctor.
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 9960
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Doctor. » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:20 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
It goes against the core idea of how the Ultra Instinct is supposed to work.

It does, but a "raw power boost" is how they portray it. Otherwise it wouldn't be a transformation with an appearance change (Whis and Beerus don't change when using it) and Goku would be able to use his Super Saiyan forms in conjunction with the technique. The fact that he's able to damage people like Jiren and Kefla whilst in "base" shows that his raw power has increased.

It's supposed to be a technique but it's being treated as a form. And forms in this series raise your stats, that's how they work.

This form has also shown nuances that differentiate it from the traditional Saiyan form.

Attacks aren't automatically made stronger, one's durability isn't increased, and the expenditure of Ki and said expenditure's aftereffects are strange in-universe.

The Ultra Instinct has so far never had any concrete evidence to suggest that it's actually increasing the amount of one's Ki when utilized, which is what can be inferred from most other forms. Also, I mentioned "channeling" of Ki instead of power increase because I believe this is the solution to the "damaging others" conundrum.

Besides the fact that hurting other fighters no longer requires as small of a difference in power levels when your Ki is smaller based on how things have gone so far in the anime, efficient channeling of Ki through your body, along with well-placed blows with the right amount of force behind them, can basically subvert power levels entirely, which would help explain why the gods fear the technique itself and not the fact that it provides some measurable power increase.


Pretty sure everyone noticed Goku's Ki rising when he transformed against Kefla but correct me if I'm wrong.

User avatar
Miracles
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1571
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Miracles » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:29 pm

Whis specifically stated that UI is different from the "heat" that came from Goku. He knew nothing about that. That heat does give Goku a power up, he was increasing ki against Kefla.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:09 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:How much stronger do people think is Ultra Instinct than SSBlue Kaioken x20?

We will have to wait until the transformation is complete, but right now I guess it’s less effective than whatever Goku and Vegeta are doing to Jiren in their limit-breaker forms.

I'm not really sure what you mean ... UI even now is stronger than what Goku and Vegeta used in Ep. 123, I believe,

The combined assault of Goku and Vegeta made Jiren lose comfort for the first time in this tournament. Ultra Instinct is more powerful than Blue with kaioken, but it didn’t put Jiren in a difficult position. At least, not yet. It’s still incomplete.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 3938
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby TheUltimateNinja » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:42 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:I personally don't go with Ultra Instinct having any kind of "raw power advantage" over Goku's other forms.

It goes against the core idea of how the Ultra Instinct is supposed to work.

Instead, I think it's simply a matter of how well one's Ki can be channeled as his/her body moves on its own to defend/dodge/attack. Because Goku couldn't properly channel the Ultra Instinct in his regular attacks, he had to resort to charging up a Kamehameha, an attack with a lot of kinetic energy that could be powered up immensely, to blow Kefla off the tournament stage.

Ultra Instinct is all about being a better fighter, not necessarily a stronger one.

What Goku has isn't merely UI, it's a form.

PushoverMediaCritic
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:41 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby PushoverMediaCritic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:48 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
We will have to wait until the transformation is complete, but right now I guess it’s less effective than whatever Goku and Vegeta are doing to Jiren in their limit-breaker forms.

I'm not really sure what you mean ... UI even now is stronger than what Goku and Vegeta used in Ep. 123, I believe,

The combined assault of Goku and Vegeta made Jiren lose comfort for the first time in this tournament. Ultra Instinct is more powerful than Blue with kaioken, but it didn’t put Jiren in a difficult position. At least, not yet. It’s still incomplete.


I agree that SSB KKx20 Goku and SSB2 Vegeta are doing slightly better against Jiren than UIO Goku alone did, but I don't think that's an indication of them being stronger than initial UIO Goku, separately or put together. I agree with Whis here: Goku and Vegeta are doing so well because they're attacking Jiren relentlessly and simultaneously with such contrasting fighting styles that it's throwing Jiren's combat rhythm.

He could beat either of them individually with only a bit of difficulty, as we've seen him do in the special, but both of them attacking together is messing up his flow. They're also close enough to him in power that he actually has to fight back against them, which is why this tactic works now, and not last episode when they tried a similar strategy as SSBs and Jiren could knock either of them away with a off-handed punch.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Hugo Boss » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 am

PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:I'm not really sure what you mean ... UI even now is stronger than what Goku and Vegeta used in Ep. 123, I believe,

The combined assault of Goku and Vegeta made Jiren lose comfort for the first time in this tournament. Ultra Instinct is more powerful than Blue with kaioken, but it didn’t put Jiren in a difficult position. At least, not yet. It’s still incomplete.


I agree that SSB KKx20 Goku and SSB2 Vegeta are doing slightly better against Jiren than UIO Goku alone did, but I don't think that's an indication of them being stronger than initial UIO Goku, separately or put together. I agree with Whis here: Goku and Vegeta are doing so well because they're attacking Jiren relentlessly and simultaneously with such contrasting fighting styles that it's throwing Jiren's combat rhythm.

He could beat either of them individually with only a bit of difficulty, as we've seen him do in the special, but both of them attacking together is messing up his flow. They're also close enough to him in power that he actually has to fight back against them, which is why this tactic works now, and not last episode when they tried a similar strategy as SSBs and Jiren could knock either of them away with a off-handed punch.

I think this is precisely what is happening. For me, what works is an indication of strength. Unless you are talking about energy levels, which is another matter.

User avatar
ChiefWamsutta
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby ChiefWamsutta » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:59 pm

I made a list for Saiyan form multipliers. This is my own headcanon.

Saiyan = Base x 1
Great Ape = Base x 10
Saiyan Kaioken Max = Base x 20
Super Saiyan = Base x 50
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = Base x 60
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = Base x 75
Super Saiyan Full Power = Base x 90
Super Saiyan 2 = Base x 100
Super Saiyan Berserker = Base x 350
Super Saiyan 3 = Base x 400
Super Saiyan God = Base x 25,000
Super Saiyan Rage = Base x 40,000
Super Saiyan Blue = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Rosé = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Max = Base x 1,000,000
Vegeta's New Form = Base x 1,000,000
Ultra Instinct = Base x 5,000,000

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby TheSaiyanGod » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:27 pm

PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:I'm not really sure what you mean ... UI even now is stronger than what Goku and Vegeta used in Ep. 123, I believe,

The combined assault of Goku and Vegeta made Jiren lose comfort for the first time in this tournament. Ultra Instinct is more powerful than Blue with kaioken, but it didn’t put Jiren in a difficult position. At least, not yet. It’s still incomplete.


I agree that SSB KKx20 Goku and SSB2 Vegeta are doing slightly better against Jiren than UIO Goku alone did, but I don't think that's an indication of them being stronger than initial UIO Goku, separately or put together. I agree with Whis here: Goku and Vegeta are doing so well because they're attacking Jiren relentlessly and simultaneously with such contrasting fighting styles that it's throwing Jiren's combat rhythm.

He could beat either of them individually with only a bit of difficulty, as we've seen him do in the special, but both of them attacking together is messing up his flow. They're also close enough to him in power that he actually has to fight back against them, which is why this tactic works now, and not last episode when they tried a similar strategy as SSBs and Jiren could knock either of them away with a off-handed punch.


Goku only on SSB was able to exchange blows against a powered up Jiren (Vermoud said that he had not seen Jiren use so much power in a long time).
Basically, in SSB is he doing much better against Jiren even more powerful than in the fight against UI Goku.

And now, both SSB KK x20 Goku and Vegeta '' new Blue '' were able to press Jiren and hit punches on him. Yes, this was due to their imperfect teamwork, but it seems like the two have the power to do it anyway.

User avatar
Kenneth La Torre
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Kenneth La Torre » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:53 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:The combined assault of Goku and Vegeta made Jiren lose comfort for the first time in this tournament. Ultra Instinct is more powerful than Blue with kaioken, but it didn’t put Jiren in a difficult position. At least, not yet. It’s still incomplete.


I agree that SSB KKx20 Goku and SSB2 Vegeta are doing slightly better against Jiren than UIO Goku alone did, but I don't think that's an indication of them being stronger than initial UIO Goku, separately or put together. I agree with Whis here: Goku and Vegeta are doing so well because they're attacking Jiren relentlessly and simultaneously with such contrasting fighting styles that it's throwing Jiren's combat rhythm.

He could beat either of them individually with only a bit of difficulty, as we've seen him do in the special, but both of them attacking together is messing up his flow. They're also close enough to him in power that he actually has to fight back against them, which is why this tactic works now, and not last episode when they tried a similar strategy as SSBs and Jiren could knock either of them away with a off-handed punch.


Goku only on SSB was able to exchange blows against a powered up Jiren (Vermoud said that he had not seen Jiren use so much power in a long time).
Basically, in SSB is he doing much better against Jiren even more powerful than in the fight against UI Goku.

And now, both SSB KK x20 Goku and Vegeta '' new Blue '' were able to press Jiren and hit punches on him. Yes, this was due to their imperfect teamwork, but it seems like the two have the power to do it anyway.


Well, i wouldnt say they have the power to to do it. Yes, they do have the power to pressure a less supressed jiren, but jiren is still massively suppressed. If jiren wanted to, he only needs to power up some more and instantly knock them out (which he wont do since he has taken an interest in them). So i wouldnt hype current new ssb vegeta and ssbkk×20 goku that much.

User avatar
MajinVegetaPD
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:38 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby MajinVegetaPD » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:36 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:I made a list for Saiyan form multipliers. This is my own headcanon.

Saiyan = Base x 1
Great Ape = Base x 10
Saiyan Kaioken Max = Base x 20
Super Saiyan = Base x 50
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = Base x 60
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = Base x 75
Super Saiyan Full Power = Base x 90
Super Saiyan 2 = Base x 100
Super Saiyan Berserker = Base x 350
Super Saiyan 3 = Base x 400
Super Saiyan God = Base x 25,000
Super Saiyan Rage = Base x 40,000
Super Saiyan Blue = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Rosé = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Max = Base x 1,000,000
Vegeta's New Form = Base x 1,000,000
Ultra Instinct = Base x 5,000,000


This looks good except for Ultra Instinct. I don't think we can say for certain that UI actually increases power by that much. From the little information we have on it (according to Whis in the anime, and how Beerus used it in the manga), it's merely a state where your body reacts to everything fluidly. I also feel there will be more to Vegeta's new form as well....we'll prolly know more after episode 126.

BWri
Regular
Posts: 519
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 1:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby BWri » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:17 pm

Doctor. wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
It goes against the core idea of how the Ultra Instinct is supposed to work.

It does, but a "raw power boost" is how they portray it. Otherwise it wouldn't be a transformation with an appearance change (Whis and Beerus don't change when using it) and Goku would be able to use his Super Saiyan forms in conjunction with the technique. The fact that he's able to damage people like Jiren and Kefla whilst in "base" shows that his raw power has increased.

It's supposed to be a technique but it's being treated as a form. And forms in this series raise your stats, that's how they work.

I'm starting to think that Saiyans may be similar to Frieza, in that their evolutions can be influenced by something personal, like wants, desires, and in Goku's case, techniques. In the Super anime this appears to be a canon thing as Trunks, Kale, Goku, Vegeta, and possibly Gohan and Kefla have attained powers that branch from the normal SSJ transformation tree. Trunks attained Ikari, Kale Berserk, Vegeta has SSRB (its catching on isn't it), Gohan's ultimate state is being treated like a transformation, and some theorize that Kefla's transformations are distinct from Kale's.

Now let's go into Goku, we'll include Vegeta in this too for now. Every character we now that has God ki doesn't transform to use it, but Saiyans have two god ki transformations. In the movies it's clear that the base forms of the Saiyans possess god ki, but in the show it's muddled. However, in both mediums, SSB is accessed by using god ki to turn oneself into a Super Saiyan, so it's a Super Saiyan God who goes Super Saiyan. From this, we can see that outside phenomena can affect a Saiyan's evolution line. And there's something about Migatte no Gokui, a godly technique, that alters a Saiyans evolution.

Saiyans use transformations to break past their limits and all this stuff we're seeing in the ToP is just proof of that. Vegeta attaining his particular form is another case of that.

And if we continue with that line of thought, it makes sense why Gohan's seemingly limitless potential allows him to keep up with god tier fighters while using his Ultimate state. He's evolving just like every other Saiyan but in his own way.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

PushoverMediaCritic
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:41 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby PushoverMediaCritic » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:46 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:I made a list for Saiyan form multipliers. This is my own headcanon.

Saiyan = Base x 1
Great Ape = Base x 10
Saiyan Kaioken Max = Base x 20
Super Saiyan = Base x 50
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = Base x 60
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = Base x 75
Super Saiyan Full Power = Base x 90
Super Saiyan 2 = Base x 100
Super Saiyan Berserker = Base x 350
Super Saiyan 3 = Base x 400
Super Saiyan God = Base x 25,000
Super Saiyan Rage = Base x 40,000
Super Saiyan Blue = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Rosé = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Max = Base x 1,000,000
Vegeta's New Form = Base x 1,000,000
Ultra Instinct = Base x 5,000,000


I'd say it's more like:

Saiyan = Base x 1
Great Ape = Base x 10
Saiyan Kaioken Max = Base x 20
Super Saiyan = Base x 50
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = Base x 75
Controlled Super Saiyan Berserker = Base x 80
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = Base x 90
Super Saiyan 2 = Base x 100
Super Saiyan 3 = Base x 400
Saiyan Beyond God = Base x 1,000
Super Saiyan Berserker = Base x 2,000
Mastered Super Saiyan Berserker = Base x 4,000
Super Saiyan God = Base x 5,000
Super Saiyan Rage = Base x 25,000
Super Saiyan Blue = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Rosé = Base x 50,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Max = Base x 1,000,000
Vegeta's New Form = Base x 1,000,000
Ultra Instinct = Base x 2,500,000

User avatar
ernesth100
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:33 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby ernesth100 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:50 am

So here's my scale on the remaining fighters.
1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Toppo
4. Vegeta
5. Frieza
6. Gohan
7. Dyspo
8. 17

About right?

PushoverMediaCritic
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:41 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby PushoverMediaCritic » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:16 pm

ernesth100 wrote:So here's my scale on the remaining fighters.
1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Toppo
4. Vegeta
5. Frieza
6. Gohan
7. Dyspo
8. 17

About right?


I'd put Vegeta with his new form above Toppo at the moment, and Dyspo's speed should probably be listed separately from himself. Like this:

1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Dyspo (speed)
4. Vegeta
5. Toppo
6. Frieza
7. Gohan
8. 17
9. Dyspo

User avatar
Lapislettuce
Banned
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:45 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Lapislettuce » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:19 pm

ernesth100 wrote:So here's my scale on the remaining fighters.
1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Toppo
4. Vegeta
5. Frieza
6. Gohan
7. Dyspo
8. 17

About right?

17 > Dyspo > Gohan. there you go.

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby TheSaiyanGod » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:27 pm

PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
ernesth100 wrote:So here's my scale on the remaining fighters.
1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Toppo
4. Vegeta
5. Frieza
6. Gohan
7. Dyspo
8. 17

About right?


I'd put Vegeta with his new form above Toppo at the moment, and Dyspo's speed should probably be listed separately from himself. Like this:

1. Jiren
2. Goku
3. Dyspo (speed)
4. Vegeta
5. Toppo
6. Frieza
7. Gohan
8. 17
9. Dyspo


How Dyspo with his speed would overcome Vegeta with his new form, which apparently is Goku SSB KK x20 level (still stronger than at the beginning of the tournament)?

Goku could predict his moves and counterattack using the SSB.
So I think he's just above SSG for now.

User avatar
Spider-Man
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:36 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Postby Spider-Man » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:31 pm

Here's my scale on the remaining fighters in the ToP.
    Jiren>Goku>Vegeta>Toppo>Frieza>Android 17>Gohan>Dyspo.
    "Time to make the doughnuts"

    PushoverMediaCritic
    Not-So-Newbie
    Posts: 81
    Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:41 am

    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Postby PushoverMediaCritic » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:44 pm

    TheSaiyanGod wrote:
    PushoverMediaCritic wrote:
    ernesth100 wrote:So here's my scale on the remaining fighters.
    1. Jiren
    2. Goku
    3. Toppo
    4. Vegeta
    5. Frieza
    6. Gohan
    7. Dyspo
    8. 17

    About right?


    I'd put Vegeta with his new form above Toppo at the moment, and Dyspo's speed should probably be listed separately from himself. Like this:

    1. Jiren
    2. Goku
    3. Dyspo (speed)
    4. Vegeta
    5. Toppo
    6. Frieza
    7. Gohan
    8. 17
    9. Dyspo


    How Dyspo with his speed would overcome Vegeta with his new form, which apparently is Goku SSB KK x20 level (still stronger than at the beginning of the tournament)?

    Goku could predict his moves and counterattack using the SSB.
    So I think he's just above SSG for now.


    Goku being able to counterattack using SSB doesn't mean he's faster than Dyspo, it just means Dyspo's fighting style is predictable. Technically, Dyspo could be the fastest person in the ring, remember that Champa couldn't see his movements and Vados could only just barely see him at top speed. Dyspo's friggin' fast, dude. He's at least at God of Destruction level, in terms of raw speed.


    Return to “Dragon Ball Super”

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Dark_Tzitzimine, Draconic, Dragon Ball Gus, Google Adsense [Bot], kudo6000, PremiumSalt, shadd21, Simere and 42 guests