Doctor. wrote:PFM18 wrote:ekrolo2 wrote:Honestly, Kefla's Base strength is far more of an issue than her SS forms. How is she kicking SSG Goku's ass with a power-up only dozens of times stronger than her individual parts? Is it meant to be dozens of times stronger than Kale & Caulifla's already transformed states but if so, why is she in Base form if they were already transformed when merging?
It really isn't a problem. It would be inconsistent if Kefla
wasn't as strong as she was. Kefla and Caulifla were losing to Goku, but at least somewhat holding their own. From what we saw with Vegetto both from what was implied by Elder Kai and from what was stated in the Daizenshuu. It is abundantly clear that SSJ3 Goku>Base Vegetto by both of the aforementioned sources. Barring the God transformations, the Base form of the fusion should at the very least be superior to anything either of the fusees can put out. We see that the boost to the potara fusion's Base was literally stated to be greater than SSJ3, and so at the very least Base Kefla should have been stronger than either of Caulifla and Kale's max outputs individually, and since neither of them have SSJ3, the Base fusion should be a minimum of 4x stronger than either of their SSJ2 forms individually. They were at least holding their own fighting 2v1 against Goku, and their fusion should be drastically stronger than them, and so they SHOULD have gained an advantage.
If there is anything to complain about, it is the power of the fusees in the first place. If you take issue with that, fine that's your prerogative. But don't call the fusion's strength inconsistent with what we know because that's just blatantly wrong.
Super is nothing but vapid hype driven when it comes to people's powers.
This is just hyberbole.
There is an inconsistency and it's not very hard to see.
We know that the SSG multiplier is superior to the Potara multiplier by Goku's own admission. This means that a SSG Goku would ALWAYS be stronger than, at the very least, the base Vegetto he'd create (likely stronger than SS Vegetto, or even SS3 Vegetto if you want to extrapolate, since it'd make far more sense for Goku to judge Vegetto by his full power).
Unless you believe Kefla is THAT much ridiculously stronger than Vegetto (which would make no sense, she should be weaker than Vegetto in every form just like Caulifla and Kale individually are weaker than Goku and Vegeta), then nothing here makes sense.
Base Kefla > SSG Goku >> (likely SS Vegetto>) Base Vegetto, here's your scaling.
There really isn't an inconsistency.
All of this means is that the SSG multiplier isn't the same as what Goku achieved from the ritual. Which intuitively makes sense given the verbatim used that Goku had already made that level of power his own, so while he can still gain a boost, it makes sense that it wouldn't be what it used to be. Then it is implied to be the case during their fight, because if Goku's SSG increase was the same, and they were equivalent in equivalent forms, then the difference between SSJ2 Caulifla and SSG Goku now should be the same as BoG SSJ2 Goku and BoG SSG Goku. In other words, if the multiplier stayed the same, when Goku turned SSG he should have instantly crushed the both of them with no problems. This wasn't the case at all. Actually, Kale actually gave Goku a bit of trouble in her controlled Berserk state. The fact that the potara boost was superior to the SSG boost we saw should have just confirmed your suspicions that:
SSG(pre-ritual) multiplier /=/ SSG(post-ritual) multiplier
considering that Goku had adapted to and retained that level of power in such a way that his normal SSJ became as strong as SSG and then moments later became stronger. Again, it makes sense intuitively and it is confirmed by these scenes. This also helps to tone down the massive bloat of power if Goku's SSJ was stronger than his SSG was before, and his SSG form still retained the same multiplier. It is better this way. I mean if you're the contrarian type that likes consciously looking for inconsistencies then just call it that, but there's a very reasonable, intuitive explanation for this.
ekrolo2 wrote:Bergamo wrote:Multipliers aren't ever stated in the story. It's also ridiculous to assume that there is a constant multiplier for fusion without taking into account the people involved and the circumstances under which the fusion occurs.
Okay, what are the circumstances? Caulifla is beaten up and can't move and Kale is substantially stronger than her meaning that their fusion already has one half both damaged goods and pretty greatly weaker than the other one. That alone should make a weaker fusion than if they were in Base and perfectly healthy the way Goku and Vegeta were.
But as I explained earlier, the fusion should be stronger than their hypothetical SSJ3 selves, and so it makes sense that it would be dramatically stronger than their individual SSJ2 states and too much for Goku considering that Goku was to some extent having trouble already.
