Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Gohan is said to be weaker than Goku,

By someone who can't sense god ki. Who cares?

[dragon boss z]

Gohan is said to be weaker than Goku,

By someone who can't sense god ki. Who cares?

Gohan doesn't have god ki. Neither does golden Frieza and Goku beat golden Frieza, so he can probably estimate how strong Goku is.

Would you say Jiren up to this point has been above Beerus? Or has he surpassed Beerus with this Full Power form that he seems to have at the end of the chapter?
This Ultra Instinct Goku probably isn't stronger than Beerus right?
On a side note where you would you place Ultimate Gohan in comparison to Goku? Weaker than Super Saiyan God? Stronger than that but weaker than Super Saiyan Blue? He isn't supposed to be as strong as Super Saiyan Blue from what I recall.

Stronger than CSSB. Vados said Kefla was possibly the strongest fighter there after sensing/seeing Vegeta and Toppo go at each other full force.

Toppo actually powered up again after that statement by Vados, and Vegeta said "still have that much power in reserve do you?"

[RandomGuy96]

Gohan is said to be weaker than Goku,

By someone who can't sense god ki. Who cares?

Gohan doesn't have god ki. Neither does golden Frieza and Goku beat golden Frieza, so he can probably estimate how strong Goku is.

Knowing how strong Golden Freeza is doesn't tell him anything about how strong Goku is because Golden Freeza is irrelevant on the power scale by this point and got his shit wrecked by Kale.

Toppo actually powered up again after that statement by Vados, and Vegeta said "still have that much power in reserve do you?"

They had both accumulated many injuries and fought for a long time by that point. What Toppo did is likely more equivalent to Goku's temporary overclocking than just having suppressed power. Otherwise he just looks like a moron.

They were also visibly tired, and panting. They'd obviously expended a significant amount of energy already, impossible if they were holding back to a great extent.

[Bergamo]

By someone who can't sense god ki. Who cares?

Gohan doesn't have god ki. Neither does golden Frieza and Goku beat golden Frieza, so he can probably estimate how strong Goku is.

Knowing how strong Golden Freeza is doesn't tell him anything about how strong Goku is because Golden Freeza is irrelevant on the power scale by this point and got his shit wrecked by Kale.

Toppo actually powered up again after that statement by Vados, and Vegeta said "still have that much power in reserve do you?"

They had both accumulated many injuries and fought for a long time by that point. What Toppo did is likely more equivalent to Goku's temporary overclocking than just having suppressed power. Otherwise he just looks like a moron.

They were also visibly tired, and panting. They'd obviously expended a significant amount of energy already, impossible if they were holding back to a great extent.

Golden Frieza = MSSB Goku, that's a fact.
Besides, Vados said that Kefla might be unmatched because we hadn't seen Kefla's full strength.

[RandomGuy96]

[
Golden Frieza = MSSB Goku, that's a fact.

No. It is not. Goku felt like he had to jump in to save Freeza from Kale.

Besides, Vados said that Kefla might be unmatched because we hadn't seen Kefla's full strength.

Nice headcanon.

[dragon boss z]

Knowing how strong Golden Freeza is doesn't tell him anything about how strong Goku is because Golden Freeza is irrelevant on the power scale by this point and got his shit wrecked by Kale.

Frieza and Goku were all beat up when they arrived and when Vegeta acted like Frieza couldn't beat him Goku said Vegeta might be surprised by how Frieza has gotten. While I agree MSSB Goku and Vegeta would beat golden Frieza, it should be a good fight. And Frieza said he could have beaten Kale if he got serious, was mad when Goku helped him, and did not look worried at all. Against a opponent actually stronger than him, like Jiren, he did not seem annoyed at all when 17 helped. Frieza is also the guy who pretty much started "I'm only using x amount of my power" so there is a high chance he wasn't even at max power when fighting Kale, not like he even had a chance to prepare, as she caught him completely off guard. That being said, it is possible full power Kale and Kefla are above full power golden Frieza.

[Nevaeh]

Goku couldn't sense god ki but could still tell Beerus > Vegetto

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Generally speaking, I think characters like Toppo, Goku, and Freeza are all equal in equivalent forms.

CSSB/Regular SSB/Golden Freeza level; really helps simplifies things, and I'm glad that both mediums have done this with these new-standard forms.

[ekrolo2]

Goku couldn't sense god ki but could still tell Beerus > Vegetto

Not in the manga he doesn't.

[Bergamo]

[
Golden Frieza = MSSB Goku, that's a fact.

No. It is not. Goku felt like he had to jump in to save Freeza from Kale.

Besides, Vados said that Kefla might be unmatched because we hadn't seen Kefla's full strength.

Nice headcanon.

That's a quote. Vados made a statement of uncertainty. Try to utilize reading comprehension before you, "nice headcanon," at me.

[ssj3kakarot]

[
Golden Frieza = MSSB Goku, that's a fact.

No. It is not. Goku felt like he had to jump in to save Freeza from Kale.

Besides, Vados said that Kefla might be unmatched because we hadn't seen Kefla's full strength.

Nice headcanon.

That's a quote. Vados made a statement of uncertainty. Try to utilize reading comprehension before you, "nice headcanon," at me.

Definitely agree with the statement from Vados being one based off uncertainty. It's rather simple actually. Kefla is formed, has a really impressive powerlevel(X), and the assumption is based of X, that Kefla should be able to get many times stronger. But so many factors are just assumptions, even for someone like Vados. Which I think the viewers give too much credit to the credibility of the Angels, sometimes.

One of the issues with both Manga and Anime is the lack of definitive statements, something I think Dbz did much better at. "I've never felt a power this strong before." Clearly signifying this foe is the strongest or fastest to yet debut on the series. That's why there is all this debate about issues. No one has to guess who is stronger than Zeno, because we've been told he is the top power.

The real confusing part is when the writers have statements or feats that, in many opinions including my own, contradict simple "logic" ( if that is a thing in a make-believe story where people can fly). Master Roshi vs Jiren is one of those examples. They tried to explain it, so i'll give them credit. However, that was POS writing. Chautzu shouldn't be able to tangle with Kid Buu because he calms his mind. At least make the reason believable, backstory, explanation. Vegeta caught up to Goku, how? Because he trained with a freaking Angel! That makes sense.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Rank these 3

SSBE Vegeta, GoD Toppo and SS2 Kefla

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Rank these 3

SSBE Vegeta, GoD Toppo and SS2 Kefla

Easy. Pure strength, GoD Toppo is the strongest.

SS2 Kefla is much stronger than even SSB/KK Goku, whom SSBE Vegeta is equal to.

In terms of ability to hit above their paygrade, Vegeta takes the cake with his Final Explosion and family-oriented power bursts.

[ssj3kakarot]

Rank these 3

SSBE Vegeta, GoD Toppo and SS2 Kefla

Easy. Pure strength, GoD Toppo is the strongest.

SS2 Kefla is much stronger than even SSB/KK Goku, whom SSBE Vegeta is equal to.

In terms of ability to hit above their paygrade, Vegeta takes the cake with his Final Explosion and family-oriented power bursts.

ss2 kefla
God Toppo
SSBE Vegeta

Simply because I think if you put 2nd Omen Goku vs G-Toppo or SSBE Vegeta, they would fair worse compared to SS2 Kefla.

I agree with the statement about Vegeta and hitting above his paygrade though.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Nah. God toppo is stronger than kefla. A simple hakai was enought to warp the world of void and crack the arena in half.

[PFM18]

Rank these 3

SSBE Vegeta, GoD Toppo and SS2 Kefla

SSJ2 Kefla
SSBE Vegeta
GoD Toppo

[ZombieVito]

Rank these 3

SSBE Vegeta, GoD Toppo and SS2 Kefla

SSBE Vegeta [Rage boost] > GoD Toppo > SS2 Kefla >>> SSBE Vegeta.

[CTAkuma]

Nah. God toppo is stronger than kefla. A simple hakai was enought to warp the world of void and crack the arena in half.

Hakai can't kill beings who are equal or stronger than you, which was shown against Blue Evolution Vegeta whom Toppo lost to in raw power. Kefla is superior than Blue Evolution Vegeta thus also Toppo

[RandomGuy96]

Knowing how strong Golden Freeza is doesn't tell him anything about how strong Goku is because Golden Freeza is irrelevant on the power scale by this point and got his shit wrecked by Kale.

Frieza and Goku were all beat up when they arrived and when Vegeta acted like Frieza couldn't beat him Goku said Vegeta might be surprised by how Frieza has gotten. While I agree MSSB Goku and Vegeta would beat golden Frieza, it should be a good fight.

That scene doesn't really mean anything when we never saw them fight at all. Who knows what happened. Vegeta certainly doesn't interpret it as "Freeza is equal to Goku", why should I?

And Frieza said he could have beaten Kale if he got serious, was mad when Goku helped him, and did not look worried at all.

That's his pride talking. Roshi and Goku agreed that Goku needed to go save him, which would not have happened if they were so sure Kale was someone he could handle. That whole scene just exists to hype up Kale by showing her beating down Freeza. Jiren is a different case because 17 is not Goku, Jiren is not a Saiyan, and Jiren is already stronger than everyone else.

LSS Kale also would have knocked Toppo out of the ring if he wasn't saved. And there's no chance they were off guard, they were engaged in combat with each other and were watching the whole time as LSS Kale ran at them. That doesn't mean she's stronger than him and CSSB Vegeta, but she is at that level.

Frieza is also the guy who pretty much started "I'm only using x amount of my power" so there is a high chance he wasn't even at max power when fighting Kale, not like he even had a chance to prepare, as she caught him completely off guard. That being said, it is possible full power Kale and Kefla are above full power golden Frieza.

He wasn't off guard. Even if you assume that he was, he got smacked away and had a second to find his bearings and speak a few lines of dialogue, only for Kale to mozy on over to him and go back to smashing his face in. As far as the god-tiers go, the scale seems to be:

Jiren > UIS Goku > SSBE Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan ~ SS Kefla > Toppo ~ CSSB Goku/Vegeta >= LSS Kale (peak) > Golden Freeza > SSB Goku/Vegeta

Vados made a statement of uncertainty.

Nice headcanon.

[Bergamo]

Knowing how strong Golden Freeza is doesn't tell him anything about how strong Goku is because Golden Freeza is irrelevant on the power scale by this point and got his shit wrecked by Kale.

Frieza and Goku were all beat up when they arrived and when Vegeta acted like Frieza couldn't beat him Goku said Vegeta might be surprised by how Frieza has gotten. While I agree MSSB Goku and Vegeta would beat golden Frieza, it should be a good fight.

That scene doesn't really mean anything when we never saw them fight at all. Who knows what happened. Vegeta certainly doesn't interpret it as "Freeza is equal to Goku", why should I?

And Frieza said he could have beaten Kale if he got serious, was mad when Goku helped him, and did not look worried at all.

That's his pride talking. Roshi and Goku agreed that Goku needed to go save him, which would not have happened if they were so sure Kale was someone he could handle. That whole scene just exists to hype up Kale by showing her beating down Freeza. Jiren is a different case because 17 is not Goku, Jiren is not a Saiyan, and Jiren is already stronger than everyone else.

LSS Kale also would have knocked Toppo out of the ring if he wasn't saved. And there's no chance they were off guard, they were engaged in combat with each other and were watching the whole time as LSS Kale ran at them. That doesn't mean she's stronger than him and CSSB Vegeta, but she is at that level.

Frieza is also the guy who pretty much started "I'm only using x amount of my power" so there is a high chance he wasn't even at max power when fighting Kale, not like he even had a chance to prepare, as she caught him completely off guard. That being said, it is possible full power Kale and Kefla are above full power golden Frieza.

He wasn't off guard. Even if you assume that he was, he got smacked away and had a second to find his bearings and speak a few lines of dialogue, only for Kale to mozy on over to him and go back to smashing his face in. As far as the god-tiers go, the scale seems to be:

Jiren > UIS Goku > SSBE Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan ~ SS Kefla > Toppo ~ CSSB Goku/Vegeta >= LSS Kale (peak) > Golden Freeza > SSB Goku/Vegeta

Vados made a statement of uncertainty.

Nice headcanon.

I love how you literally don't know what the word "may" means. I can't argue against someone who won't even recognize objective facts.

Tell me, how could Vados even know Kefla's full power? If she went 100% against the pride troopers then she'd probably kill them, and Saiyans grow as they fight, so a judgement before she fought a strong fighter could end up being completely wrong.

I honestly can't believe you haven't gotten some sort of strike or warning despite the fact that you absolutely refuse to be civil and insist on making low effort replies.

Edit: Just in case you still don't know...

may - expressing possibility