Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:53 pm

"This is Black's version of Super Saiyan" and "this is Black as a Super Saiyan" are not exactly the same thing. I think the person who translated it might clarify that, but I can tell the description is about a different Super Saiyan, not about the regular one with golden hair or its power.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:06 pm

If Super Saiyan Rose looked just like a Super Saiyan but with pink hair then I'd be more willing to believe it as Black also has a different colour aura and Kamehameha to Goku.

But it has the exact same aura as Super Saiyan Blue. It's clearly a pink equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue. With Toriyama's comments and the manga making it abundantly clear that Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rose are two different things then that should have precedence over some debatable dialogue in a promotional magazine that was written by god knows who.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:46 am

Bullza wrote:If Super Saiyan Rose looked just like a Super Saiyan but with pink hair then I'd be more willing to believe it as Black also has a different colour aura and Kamehameha to Goku.

But it has the exact same aura as Super Saiyan Blue. It's clearly a pink equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue. With Toriyama's comments and the manga making it abundantly clear that Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rose are two different things then that should have precedence over some debatable dialogue in a promotional magazine that was written by god knows who.
It can't possibly be SSJ anyway since SSJ has a 50x multiplier and if Black became 50x stronger he wouldn't even need Zamasu.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:44 am

Hugo Boss wrote:"This is Black's version of Super Saiyan" and "this is Black as a Super Saiyan" are not exactly the same thing. I think the person who translated it might clarify that, but I can tell the description is about a different Super Saiyan, not about the regular one with golden hair or its power.
This is what I mean. The confusion come is that people forget that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with god ki. It isn't a unique transformation and Toriyama clarified that holds true for all versions Super Saiyan since Super Saiyan 2 is literally just called Super Saiyan by everyone outside of Goku.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Bullza wrote:If Super Saiyan Rose looked just like a Super Saiyan but with pink hair then I'd be more willing to believe it as Black also has a different colour aura and Kamehameha to Goku.

But it has the exact same aura as Super Saiyan Blue. It's clearly a pink equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue. With Toriyama's comments and the manga making it abundantly clear that Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rose are two different things then that should have precedence over some debatable dialogue in a promotional magazine that was written by god knows who.
It can't possibly be SSJ anyway since SSJ has a 50x multiplier and if Black became 50x stronger he wouldn't even need Zamasu.
What do you mean not needing Zamasu?
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:43 am

HeroR wrote: What do you mean not needing Zamasu?
He needed Future Zamasu to distract the heroes, if SSRose was a 50x multiplier he would easily oneshot the heroes on his own.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:15 am

HeroR wrote:
This is what I mean. The confusion come is that people forget that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with god ki. It isn't a unique transformation
So how does that work?
SS Grants a fixed amount of boost, he can still use SS and gets the boost, but when he becomes SS using god ki, he is suddenly getting a waay bigger boost than SS should ever give, how?
Is godly ki just really potent, if so did dende get stronger when he received god ki..
If so could the same insane boost be granted by humans when they power up but using god ki, which at this point is basically keeping your ki inside
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:46 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
HeroR wrote:
This is what I mean. The confusion come is that people forget that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with god ki. It isn't a unique transformation
So how does that work?
SS Grants a fixed amount of boost, he can still use SS and gets the boost, but when he becomes SS using god ki, he is suddenly getting a waay bigger boost than SS should ever give, how?
Is godly ki just really potent, if so did dende get stronger when he received god ki..
If so could the same insane boost be granted by humans when they power up but using god ki, which at this point is basically keeping your ki inside
Dende doesn't have God ki since he can be sensed. Being a God doesn't mean you get God ki.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:49 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:
HeroR wrote:
This is what I mean. The confusion come is that people forget that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with god ki. It isn't a unique transformation
So how does that work?
SS Grants a fixed amount of boost, he can still use SS and gets the boost, but when he becomes SS using god ki, he is suddenly getting a waay bigger boost than SS should ever give, how?
Is godly ki just really potent, if so did dende get stronger when he received god ki..
If so could the same insane boost be granted by humans when they power up but using god ki, which at this point is basically keeping your ki inside
Dende doesn't have God ki since he can be sensed. Being a God doesn't mean you get God ki.
Really? I was totally sure he does have both, he could also sense berrus so he is at least familiar with god ki, he isn't too powerful which apparently also helps in sensing gods, hit and freeza proved it..
Can Someone confirm if dende has some god ki or not?
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:58 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote: So how does that work?
SS Grants a fixed amount of boost, he can still use SS and gets the boost, but when he becomes SS using god ki, he is suddenly getting a waay bigger boost than SS should ever give, how?
Is godly ki just really potent, if so did dende get stronger when he received god ki..
If so could the same insane boost be granted by humans when they power up but using god ki, which at this point is basically keeping your ki inside
Dende doesn't have God ki since he can be sensed. Being a God doesn't mean you get God ki.
Really? I was totally sure he does have both, he could also sense berrus so he is at least familiar with god ki, he isn't too powerful which apparently also helps in sensing gods, hit and freeza proved it..
Can Someone confirm if dende has some god ki or not?
We already know he doesn't since he can be sensed by mortals.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:47 pm

Even Kaio doesn't seem to have God Ki, since Goku was able to teleport to him.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:07 pm

So even now the Super Saiyan Blue multiplier is completely unknown isn't it? In both the anime and manga there's nothing to go on except it's an unknown amount stronger than Super Saiyan 3.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:19 pm

Bullza wrote:So even now the Super Saiyan Blue multiplier is completely unknown isn't it? In both the anime and manga there's nothing to go on except it's an unknown amount stronger than Super Saiyan 3.
Yup, that much is apparent. Also doesn't help that the Manga is way different than the Anime in the interpretation of the God forms.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:54 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
HeroR wrote: What do you mean not needing Zamasu?
He needed Future Zamasu to distract the heroes, if SSRose was a 50x multiplier he would easily oneshot the heroes on his own.
He didn't need Zamasu to distract the heroes. He just had no problem with Zamasu helping him since they were a team.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:08 pm

Okay, so what I've seen from the leaks is that Goku Black got a zenkai and a huge one. Because he kicks SSJB Vegeta's ass as a SSJ. And yes, Super Saiyan Rose does make its debut in the manga and Goku Black wastes Vegeta with it. The gap between SSJR and SSJB just got enormous.

EDIT: It's also strongly implied that Goku Black jobbed out on purpose to get the zenkai.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:04 pm

Do we know for sure if he got a zenkai boost or was he just fooling around the entire time before? If it was the latter it's clear up the confusion of the last chapter.

If it's the former then I'm surprised that Black would have got a zenkai boost. I would have sworn that was a Toei thing because of how little sense it made. Why did nobody else get a zenkai boost?

Black and Trunks apparently fought multiple times so if they'd said Trunks received these zenkai boosts then it could have easily have explained why he was so strong, at least for the anime because in the manga he just said he trained.

It still definitely looks like Super Saiyan 2 Black to me, I don't recall ever seeing so many sparks drawn around a Super Saiyan.

Edit: Herms said this

"Zamasu guesses that when gods surpass Super Saiyan God they become pink rather than blue"

What does that mean? Doesn't blue already surpass Super Saiyan God?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:13 pm

Black was clearly stuck in Chapter 19. He was annoyed several times, asked how Vegeta was so strong (to beat him in SSJ2) in the fight and Zamasu says that he almost did not die.
Of course he fought in earnest

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:22 pm

Bullza wrote:Edit: Herms said this

"Zamasu guesses that when gods surpass Super Saiyan God they become pink rather than blue"

What does that mean? Doesn't blue already surpass Super Saiyan God?
It means when a god is in a saiyan's body and turns SSGSS they're pink rather than blue, as we've long speculated.
Lord Beerus wrote:Okay, so what I've seen from the leaks is that Goku Black got a zenkai and a huge one. Because he kicks SSJB Vegeta's ass as a SSJ. And yes, Super Saiyan Rose does make its debut in the manga and Goku Black wastes Vegeta with it. The gap between SSJR and SSJB just got enormous.
I don't see anything to imply there's a gap. Just because SSR Black is stronger than SSB Vegeta doesn't mean SSR's multiplier is higher. As you pointed out, he was winning even as SS which means his base is just that much higher.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:33 pm

I've done plenty of ranking for the anime version but I don't think I've ever done it for the manga so here's my attempt at doing so. It's pretty straightforward compared to the anime.

Zeno Tier

Zeno

High God Tier

Grand Priest
Vados
Whis
Beerus
Champa

Low God Tier

Super Saiyan Rose Black (Post Zenkai)
Super Saiyan Black (Post-Zenkai)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta
Golden Frieza
Hit
Super Saiyan God Goku
Golden Frieza

Buu Saga Tier

Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta
Super Saiyan Black (Pre Zenkai)
Mystic Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
Base Black (Pre Zenkai)
Super Saiyan 3 Goku/Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Super Saiyan Trunks
Majin Buu
Super Saiyan 2 Goku

Cell Saga Tier

Hit (Suppressed)
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Zamasu
Frost (Final Form)
Piccolo

Frieza Saga Tier

Base Trunks
Base Goku/Vegeta
Base Cabba
Frost (Third Form)
Frost (First Form)
Botamo


Maybe Golden Frieza could be one higher or one lower. Zamasu could easily be higher as I just placed him where I feel Supreme Kai would be. Otherwise I think that's about right.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:10 am

Okay, so what I've seen from the leaks is that Goku Black got a zenkai and a huge one. Because he kicks SSJB Vegeta's ass as a SSJ. And yes, Super Saiyan Rose does make its debut in the manga and Goku Black wastes Vegeta with it. The gap between SSJR and SSJB just got enormous.
This is not to say absolutely nothing. It has been said that the SSGSS form of gods is pink not blue, ie this form of Black is the same thing as SSB but Rose, Power Up is the same.
I've done plenty of ranking for the anime version but I don't think I've ever done it for the manga so here's my attempt at doing so. It's pretty straightforward compared to the anime.
What is your anime rank in the current episode?

____

My Rank in the anime is:

Zeno
Daishinkan
Whis / Vados
Beerus
Champa
Vegito SSGSS
Merged Zamasu
Goku (Kaioken)
Vegeta (SSGSS) / Hit
Black
Trunks
Golden Freeza
Zamasu

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:16 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:Black was clearly stuck in Chapter 19. He was annoyed several times, asked how Vegeta was so strong (to beat him in SSJ2) in the fight and Zamasu says that he almost did not die.
Of course he fought in earnest
My thoughts too. Black didn't jobber on purpose. Vegeta kicked his ass and he was lucking that Future Zamasu was able to heal him. If this was planned, he would have taking his licks more gracefully.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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