Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PFM18]

We realistically have absolutely no idea what kind of boost SSB or SSG yield. I look at it that upon acquiring God ki they did attain an astronomical boost to their bases that apparently was no longer God Ki. The "power" itself was infused in them rarther than the God ki. The multiplier themselves doesn't seem THAT large but instead the ability to go from being weaker than Namek Freeza in base to being strong enough to one shot SSJ3 Gotenks is kind of a big deal.

[Marlowe89]

The power differential between God and Blue seems to be a bit clearer in the manga than it is in the anime. This is just for the manga, but here are my rough estimations based on official statements, dialogue exchanges, and other facts presented in Toyotaro's version:

Exhausted SSB = Not even 10% of Blue's power
Standard SSG = Anywhere between 10% and 30% of Blue's power
Standard SSB = Anywhere between 40% and 60% of Blue's power (shortly after transforming)
Instant SSG-SSB Switching = Anywhere between 90% and 100% of Blue's power
Complete SSB = 100% of Blue's power

Something like that. I think we could reasonably project some of these numbers onto the anime if we assume that version's (current) Blue is equivalent to the manga's Complete Blue, but the whole anime-manga dichotomy is a debate I'd rather save for another time.

[ZombieVito]

The power differential between God and Blue seems to be a bit clearer in the manga than it is in the anime. This is just for the manga, but here are my rough estimations based on official statements, dialogue exchanges, and other facts presented in Toyotaro's version:

Exhausted SSB = Not even 10% of Blue's power
Standard SSG = Anywhere between 10% and 30% of Blue's power
Standard SSB = Anywhere between 40% and 60% of Blue's power (shortly after transforming)
Instant SSG-SSB Switching = Anywhere between 90% and 100% of Blue's power
Complete SSB = 100% of Blue's power

Something like that. I think we could reasonably project these numbers onto the anime if we assume that version's (current) Blue is equivalent to the manga's Complete Blue, but the whole anime-manga dichotomy is a debate I'd rather save for another time.

I think Complete SSB needs to be a lot higher. It matched Merged Zamasu who trashed SSB Vegeta after all.

[Bullza]

It probably means next to nothing at this point but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

In the Xenoverse 2 DLC, Super Vegito says he can't feel any power coming from Whis. Would that mean he was weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta by the Resurrection F saga seeing as they were at a level they could sense God Ki?

But between it being just a game and that "being at level to sense God Ki" not being too consistent it's promotion helpful.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So apperantly, CSSB goku and hit team up againts jiren, and jiren effortlessly stomps both without moving from the spot his in. It seems he uses less effort than what beerus used against CSSB vegeta, from what I'm hearing.

[Rally 07]

I have ssb 50x from ssg, ever since ssb managed to move jiren, while jirens finger was more than enought for ssg.

Actually, yeah that was something I thought about while watching Super episode 109. With heavily suppressed Jiren utterly destroying a fully powered up Super Saiyan God Gokou with a single finger, I found it impressive that a full powered Super Saiyan Blue Gokou managed to push Jiren back and was able to exchange hits with him numerous times, while the exchanging hits, and swapping hands was very brief. Then using Kaioken x 20, he was able to tag Jiren with no damage inflicted on him. So yeah, the boost from God to Blue is likely pretty big. And then the Ultra Instinct Omen from Super episode 110 was able to fight somewhat evenly with Jiren in his heavily suppressed state; whereas Super Saiyan Blue w/ Kaioken x 20 was no match for Jiren. So maybe the jump from Blue to Ultra Instinct is there as well.

[Puaru]

I bet Gohan's power during the ToP was something like 5% of SSB. He was so fucking weak and sucked so fucking bad.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

You know, given how Ultimate Gohan is strong enough to at least somewhat tangle with opponents on the level of SSB (though he's still inferior overall), it makes me wonder.... Maybe Ultimate IS a multiplication, or at least has a sorta consistent boost from base to full power.

Super Saiyan forms as a whole are potential unlocks, ways in which Saiyans bring out latent power. However, we also know that when a Saiyan grows in power in his normal state, his Super Saiyan forms generally also increase in power.

Ultimate may run along similar lines; it's all of one's potential brought out at that particular level that Gohan's at. So, if Gohan can manage to get close to his dad's power in similar forms, Ultimate can potentially put him close to "god-level" with its boost being even greater than SS3.

[PFM18]

I bet Gohan's power during the ToP was something like 5% of SSB. He was so fucking weak and sucked so fucking bad.

That is still pretty strong though

[Hugo Boss]

In the Xenoverse 2 DLC, Super Vegito says he can't feel any power coming from Whis. Would that mean he was weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta by the Resurrection F saga seeing as they were at a level they could sense God Ki?

I would not really call this evidence. This seems more akin to ki sensing skills than a power level thing. Of course, we have Whis comenting on Goku and Vegeta's powerlevel in the same line, but the way he talks doesn't suggest it is required a certain level to be able to sense God ki. If this was true, Dende would not be able to sense Beerus' energy.

Super Saiyan forms as a whole are potential unlocks, ways in which Saiyans bring out latent power. However, we also know that when a Saiyan grows in power in his normal state, his Super Saiyan forms generally also increase in power.

Ultimate may run along similar lines; it's all of one's potential brought out at that particular level that Gohan's at. So, if Gohan can manage to get close to his dad's power in similar forms, Ultimate can potentially put him close to "god-level" with its boost being even greater than SS3.

I think most of Dragon Ball transformations fit in the category of "bringing out latent power", which varies depending on the moment. So, I concur with the idea that the Saiyan forms don't have a static boost.

[TobyS]

It probably means next to nothing at this point but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

In the Xenoverse 2 DLC, Super Vegito says he can't feel any power coming from Whis. Would that mean he was weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta by the Resurrection F saga seeing as they were at a level they could sense God Ki?

But between it being just a game and that "being at level to sense God Ki" not being too consistent it's promotion helpful.

Regardless of whether there was a power level requirement at all and/or whether Vegito was at that level, I think it's fair to say that Veggetto couldn't be expected to gain that ability in like the 9 minutes that skirmish takes. Especially with all the other distractions.

I wouldn't use it for scaling or feats really.

[ekrolo2]

The power differential between God and Blue seems to be a bit clearer in the manga than it is in the anime. This is just for the manga, but here are my rough estimations based on official statements, dialogue exchanges, and other facts presented in Toyotaro's version:

Exhausted SSB = Not even 10% of Blue's power
Standard SSG = Anywhere between 10% and 30% of Blue's power
Standard SSB = Anywhere between 40% and 60% of Blue's power (shortly after transforming)
Instant SSG-SSB Switching = Anywhere between 90% and 100% of Blue's power
Complete SSB = 100% of Blue's power

Something like that. I think we could reasonably project some of these numbers onto the anime if we assume that version's (current) Blue is equivalent to the manga's Complete Blue, but the whole anime-manga dichotomy is a debate I'd rather save for another time.

There certainly doesn't seem to be a massive gap between them as Beerus calls standard SSB just a powered up God, meaning noncomplete Blue could be as low as just x2 of God's strength.

The big gap seems to come when Blue is complete but I don't think even that variant is 50 or a hundred times above God.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I know that SDBH is never anything accurate and we shouldn't even bother, but in the opening for Universe Mission 2, Goku and Vegeta are taking on Bojack's gang and their Super Saiyan clone selves in their base forms.

[Marlowe89]

There certainly doesn't seem to be a massive gap between them as Beerus calls standard SSB just a powered up God, meaning noncomplete Blue could be as low as just x2 of God's strength.

The big gap seems to come when Blue is complete but I don't think even that variant is 50 or a hundred times above God.

Agreed. Going by the percentages I have, I think regular Blue is probably anywhere from 1.5 to 2 times God's strength, with Complete Blue likely being anywhere from 5 to 10 times that. The match against Toppo shows that God can't be too insignificant in comparison.

I'm pretty confident in these numbers since they reasonably seem to reflect a lot of what's stated on-panel.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

There certainly doesn't seem to be a massive gap between them as Beerus calls standard SSB just a powered up God, meaning noncomplete Blue could be as low as just x2 of God's strength.

The big gap seems to come when Blue is complete but I don't think even that variant is 50 or a hundred times above God.

Agreed. Going by the percentages I have, I think regular Blue is probably anywhere from 1.5 to 2 times God's strength, with Complete Blue likely being anywhere from 5 to 10 times that. The match against Toppo shows that God can't be too insignificant in comparison.

I'm pretty confident in these numbers since they reasonably seem to reflect a lot of what's stated on-panel.

It also jives with what was shown when Kefla fought Goku.

Her base form was able to match up with SSG, and Goku needed SSB and Kaioken to tangle with her SS form.

[Rally 07]

Maybe Ultimate IS a multiplication, or at least has a sorta consistent boost from base to full power.

The Ultimate or Potential Unleashed transformation is a power up so it is indeed a multiplication of one's power.

[Hugo Boss]

Maybe Ultimate IS a multiplication, or at least has a sorta consistent boost from base to full power.

The Ultimate or Potential Unleashed transformation is a power up so it is indeed a multiplication of one's power.

Just because kaioken multiplies one’s power, it doesn’t mean every power-up follows the same pattern.

[Lord Beerus]

Chapter 35 of the Super manga has been leaked and here's what I've gathered:

- SSJ2 was able to hold his own against Toppo and Dyspo... at the same time. And in Toppo's case, this would seem quite weird given that Toppo is far stronger than SSJ2 Goku, as shown in their fight in the Zen Exhibition Match.
- Dyspo uses his super speed to evade SSJ2 Goku and smack him around a little.
- Toppo comes in and starts to literally punch Goku into the ground, with Goku only able to guard like his life depends on it. (It does...)
- Jiren does something to Hit (punches him) which causes Hit to go down in a heap.
- Goku sees Hit in down for count, goes SSJB (it appears to the pre-Completed version), blasts Toppo off of him instantly and rushes to aid Hit
- Goku rushes to Jiren, and get blown back by a single kiai from Jiren.
- Goku tries to use IT to catch Jiren off-guard but Jiren blocks Goku's attack.
- SSJB Goku can't land a single hit on Jiren, who causally blocks all of Goku's offence.
- And, yeah, just like the anime, Jiren isn't fighting seriously.
- Jiren swats Goku like a fly to the edge of the arena... several times.
- Goku appears as though he's about to be eliminated by Jiren... until Hit make the save and kicks Jiren away before he could land the decisive blow.
- Hit attacks Jiren... and can't do shit to him.
- Goku and Hit attack Jiren at the same time and can't do anything as Jiren remains unfazed.
- Hit displays a new Time-Skip ability which slows down Jiren's movements.
- Hit attacks a "slow downed" Jiren
- Turn out (you guessed it) Jiren was sandbagging and he really wasn't affected by Hit's new Time-Skip ability at all and was using it as an opportunity to draw Hit near the edge of the arena, and uses that opportunity to punch Hit out of the stage, eliminating him.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention that Goku powers down to his base form after Hit tells him he'll handle Jiren by himself.

[Doctor.]

It probably means next to nothing at this point but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

In the Xenoverse 2 DLC, Super Vegito says he can't feel any power coming from Whis. Would that mean he was weaker than Base Goku and Vegeta by the Resurrection F saga seeing as they were at a level they could sense God Ki?

But between it being just a game and that "being at level to sense God Ki" not being too consistent it's promotion helpful.

Kaio and the Oracle Fish can sense God ki.

[ekrolo2]

I'll take Jiren tricking Hit into a ring out over "His power is so fucking sugoi it trascends time itself!"