Simere wrote:Since many people want to dismiss the effectiveness of SSJ3 as a form, I thought it was noteworthy that Goku posed it as a goal worth reaching this episode.
Goku has held back in almost every single fight he's ever been in, yes. You're really going to try to deny this?
Just a quick question, please count up the number of times Goku held back AND got completely stomped simultaneously in DBZ? I'm just curious.
You always have great questions, and if I'm not mistaken, the answer is: zero times.
This is why people are pitching a fit.
This is DBZ Goku holding back"
[spoiler][/spoiler]
This is Super Goku "holding back":
[spoiler][/spoiler]
TheMikado wrote:
Just a quick question, please count up the number of times Goku held back AND got completely stomped simultaneously in DBZ? I'm just curious.
You always have great questions, and if I'm not mistaken, the answer is: zero times.
This is why people are pitching a fit.
This is DBZ Goku holding back"
[spoiler][/spoiler]
This is Super Goku "holding back":
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Pretty much..
Why hold back so much you get your butt kicked?
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
Simere wrote:Since many people want to dismiss the effectiveness of SSJ3 as a form, I thought it was noteworthy that Goku posed it as a goal worth reaching this episode.
HybridSaiyan wrote:"Holding back" Yeah, Goku's been holding back in every single fight he's ever been In. That's the excuse everyone uses when an opponent overpowers him lol.
Goku has held back in almost every single fight he's ever been in, yes. You're really going to try to deny this?
Just a quick question, please count up the number of times Goku held back AND got completely stomped simultaneously in DBZ? I'm just curious.
Nam, Tenshinhan and Piccolo. So pretty much in every tournament.
TheMikado wrote:
Just a quick question, please count up the number of times Goku held back AND got completely stomped simultaneously in DBZ? I'm just curious.
You always have great questions, and if I'm not mistaken, the answer is: zero times.
This is why people are pitching a fit.
I'm a little unclear. Are you disputing that he was holding back, or are you just taking issue with the fact that he didn't look cool while doing so?
Simere wrote:
You always have great questions, and if I'm not mistaken, the answer is: zero times.
This is why people are pitching a fit.
I'm a little unclear. Are you disputing that he was holding back, or are you just taking issue with the fact that he didn't look cool while doing so?
Actually you just pointed out what the exact problem. The audience has no idea what he's doing. Is he holding back? If so, by how much? And why continue to let yourself get kicked around. If it really doesn't hurt at all to the point where you aren't taking damage how is she able to hit you at all and why can't you hit her back?
The point I was making was that Goku expressly showed that he was holding back against Trunk but only using finger to stop his attacks without a single sign of worry or distress and no damage at all. (I used the sunglasses gif to drive the point home).
In the other images Goku is gripped up and thrown around. It doesn't give the air of someone in complete control who is choosing not to go full strength is just doesn't make much sense in the context which people are claiming Goku is holding back to very low levels. Basically, narratively it doesn't make sense and we the audience can't figure what or why Goku is doing this and Goku isn't telling up why he's choosing to get his butt kicked around either.
I came here to compliment you guys persistance in trying to make sense with the power scalling of this series, but seriously though could we say LSSJBerserker has the same multiplier as Blue?
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote:I came here to compliment you guys persistance in trying to make sense with the power scalling of this series, but seriously though could we say LSSJBerserker has the same multiplier as Blue?
Half the group will say yes half no, I say yes..
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
Noah wrote:I came here to compliment you guys persistance in trying to make sense with the power scalling of this series, but seriously though could we say LSSJBerserker has the same multiplier as Blue?
Kale got owned by Napapa, who got stomped by Final Form Freeza who is weaker than Base Goku, so no the SSBerserk multiplier has to be larger than Blue.
Noah wrote:I came here to compliment you guys persistance in trying to make sense with the power scalling of this series, but seriously though could we say LSSJBerserker has the same multiplier as Blue?
Assuming Goku wasn't holding back a ton (and he might have been, who even knows with this series anymore?), her Legendary Super Saiyan form might actually have a higher multiplier than Blue if only because her base state was so weak.
Noah wrote:I came here to compliment you guys persistance in trying to make sense with the power scalling of this series, but seriously though could we say LSSJBerserker has the same multiplier as Blue?
Kale got owned by Napapa, who got stomped by Final Form Freeza who is weaker than Base Goku, so no the SSBerserk multiplier has to be larger than Blue.
Who knows if Freezer is weaker than Goku? It seems like Goku and Vegeta's normal states were nerfed after RoF.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball Manga
Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman
Yo! Son Goku and friends return
Battle of Gods and Resurrection “F”
Dragon Ball Super Manga + Movies
Lore from Toriyama
Dragon Ball DAIMA
Goku really is holding back a ton from what I can tell, he said that line for a reason and I wonder if the reason why Kale was able to walk through that wave was because Goku was being careful not to kill her but since she was out for blood she pushed herself too much and was able to do what she did, bloodlust can really take you to places you never knew you could, Goku gauged the power he put in his wave wrong, Kale was just that obssesed on killing him, at least this is my take until they fight again or Goku puts up an actual fight against Jiren that OHKO'd Berserker.
ZombieVito wrote:But we already know how strong they are. They are weaker than Good Boo. How much is anyone's guess.
Boo > Drugged Basil > Goku > Basil.
We don't know that for sure. When Goku fought Buu he said that he'd gotten even faster since slimming down and Goku was keeping him up with him just fine. So Goku should be faster than Buu and Drugged Basil which generally means he should be more powerful.
Buu got one over on him but it might not mean a whole lot because Krillin sorta did as well, Krillin also got one over on Gohan too.
That's easy to solved. Goku used SbG with Boo.
It makes no sense for him to be stronger than drugged Basil when he had trouble with just regular Basil.
Herms answered me on Twitter and confirmed that Goku said he would release a LITTLE bit more of his power (after turning into SSB). That '' a little '' should be compared to his SSJ2 form.
This confirms that the power used by Goku at that time was not much in comparison to the total power of the SSB. It was only a small release of power.
So, I do not really see Kale at the level of Goku SSB. We have already had other clues such as the fact that Goku did not even get scratched or bruised after all and act as if nothing had happened.
With that, where does Keeru fit into a power ranking?
TheSaiyanGod wrote:Herms answered me on Twitter and confirmed that Goku said he would release a LITTLE bit more of his power (after turning into SSB). That '' a little '' should be compared to his SSJ2 form.
This confirms that the power used by Goku at that time was not much in comparison to the total power of the SSB. It was only a small release of power.
So, I do not really see Kale at the level of Goku SSB. We have already had other clues such as the fact that Goku did not even get scratched or bruised after all and act as if nothing had happened.
With that, where does Keeru fit into a power ranking?
As for me above SSJ2 and probably on par with a full powered SSJ3 or a little bit above it but surely not at SSJB levels.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:Herms answered me on Twitter and confirmed that Goku said he would release a LITTLE bit more of his power (after turning into SSB). That '' a little '' should be compared to his SSJ2 form.
This confirms that the power used by Goku at that time was not much in comparison to the total power of the SSB. It was only a small release of power.
So, I do not really see Kale at the level of Goku SSB. We have already had other clues such as the fact that Goku did not even get scratched or bruised after all and act as if nothing had happened.
With that, where does Keeru fit into a power ranking?
As for me above SSJ2 and probably on par with a full powered SSJ3 or a little bit above it but surely not at SSJB levels.
Before I actually thought she was SSB level, but with that talk of Goku, I do not think that's going to come to that.
He said he would release only a little more power over his SSJ2 form.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:Herms answered me on Twitter and confirmed that Goku said he would release a LITTLE bit more of his power (after turning into SSB). That '' a little '' should be compared to his SSJ2 form.
This confirms that the power used by Goku at that time was not much in comparison to the total power of the SSB. It was only a small release of power.
So, I do not really see Kale at the level of Goku SSB. We have already had other clues such as the fact that Goku did not even get scratched or bruised after all and act as if nothing had happened.
With that, where does Keeru fit into a power ranking?
As for me above SSJ2 and probably on par with a full powered SSJ3 or a little bit above it but surely not at SSJB levels.
Before I actually thought she was SSB level, but with that talk of Goku, I do not think that's going to come to that.
He said he would release only a little more power over his SSJ2 form.
Yeah thats the point of the line to which other people take as Goku actually putting it close to his real SSJB powers, he's reserving his stamina because guys like Jiren,Hit,Toppo and unknown fighters that uses weird techniques are still out there, he knows Kale is a saiyan despite her weird transformation he knows how saiyans fight, and he saw Kale was nothing more than a savage out of control girl that he needed to be careful with or else he may accidentally kill her hence the line. If it werent for the line I would even go for her near SSJB, but then theres the weird part of her not being able to kill Goku let alone damage him as a SSJ2 which she should have done with ease if she was at SSJB levels or near it.
Since SS3 tier Goku Black was only a "little stronger" than SS2 Goku and SS2 tier Goku Black, that'd kinda sorta imply that SSB Goku was also SS3 tier when he let out a "little more power" than he was letting as a SS2.
Basically:
Full Power SSB Goku >> LSS Kale > Suppressed SSB Goku ~ SS3 Goku >~ SS2 Goku
I think Kale needs to be at least SS3 tier to impress Hit and the others the way she did.
DBZ Macky wrote:Since SS3 tier Goku Black was only a "little stronger" than SS2 Goku and SS2 tier Goku Black, that'd kinda sorta imply that SSB Goku was also SS3 tier when he let out a "little more power" than he was letting as a SS2.
Basically:
Full Power SSB Goku >> LSS Kale > Suppressed SSB Goku ~ SS3 Goku >~ SS2 Goku
I think Kale needs to be at least SS3 tier to impress Hit and the others the way she did.
Would that be enough, though? SS3 is nothing, compared to Hit and the Pride Troopers.
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]
