Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Helios518]

Why do people keep talking like Dyspo and his speed are separate? Dyspo's speed is a part of his powerset. He's SSJB overall. There is no "dyspo without his speed is below SSJG but SSJB level with it"

There is a difference, as Burter had a faster speed than the other Ginyu force members who had the same power level as him and Goku was faster than Ginyu even though Ginyu was stronger. Dyspo would lose in an arm wrestle to mystic Gohan, Golden Frieza, SSB Goku, ect.

Sure, you could try to scale Dyspo without his speed but there's no honestly no point to that because it's as part of him as ki is to most fighters and you will never see Dyspo fight without speed.

[dragon boss z]

Why do people keep talking like Dyspo and his speed are separate? Dyspo's speed is a part of his powerset. He's SSJB overall. There is no "dyspo without his speed is below SSJG but SSJB level with it"

There is a difference, as Burter had a faster speed than the other Ginyu force members who had the same power level as him and Goku was faster than Ginyu even though Ginyu was stronger. Dyspo would lose in an arm wrestle to mystic Gohan, Golden Frieza, SSB Goku, ect.

Sure, you could try to scale Dyspo without his speed but there's no honestly no point to that because it's as part of him as ki is to most fighters and you will never see Dyspo fight without speed.

True. I personally see his regular form being SSG tier and with his super max lightspeed mode SSB tier.

[Amir]

Golden Frieza being faster than Dyspo is odd as hell. That means he is even faster than Blue Goku. Because even Goku needed to switch to blue to maximize his speed and power, and needeed to rely on Dyspo's predictable movements to keep up and he was still pushed back.

Hit was able to keep up with Dyspo after adapting to his speed though, right before Kunshi grabbed his leg.

And why didn't Dyspo use MLS mode on Hit?

[Bullza]

There's also the possibility that while Hit is in the SSB tier in terms of power, he can be in the SSG tier in terms of speed. Remember than a 90,000 Goku was able to out speed a 120,000 Ginyu.

Hit could also be inferior in terms of strength too. Whereas when Super Saiyan Blue Goku threw a punch at Jiren and sent them both backwards through rocks and Jiren had to guard against it, when Hit threw a punch at Jiren he casually stopped it just by putting up his hand, more along the lines of how he stopped Super Saiyan God Goku's punch except that was a finger.

Also seeing how Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta did against Jiren where he was actually able to hit him twice without tricks then it could be that they're comfortably ahead of Hit power level wise.

If Hit is in the same ballpark of power as he was back in the U6 Tournament then it would make sense. So he could be roughly Super Saiyan Blue level from the Golden Frieza saga. With his abilities it really puts him up there, like Dyspo.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Ima switch the comversation to something else.
Has anyone changed their opinion about where jiren stands compared to beerus and ssb vegito?
Current ssb kaioken 20 goku and vegeta are around as strong as UI gokus current trigger, and jirens current power (greater than 110, but still far from full power) is tanking everything that goku and vegeta dish out. I honestly have no reason to doubt that jiren is superior to the gods in general. It would make sense for the series to end with goku surpassing what hia benchmark was (beerus), by fight someone who is even stronger.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Double post sorry
Meant to say first UI trigger.
For some reason the edit option isnt working for me

[Noah]

Has anyone changed their opinion about where Jiren stands compared to Beerus and SSB Vegito?

Well, He's probably stronger than Vegetto Blue who fought Merged Zamasu, but a current Vegetto would be stronger than him and 100% unseen full power Beerus too.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Has anyone changed their opinion about where Jiren stands compared to Beerus and SSB Vegito?

Well, He's probably stronger than Vegetto Blue who fought Merged Zamasu, but a current Vegetto would be stronger than him and 100% unseen full power Beerus too.

I really doubt it. Especially when belmod seems to be no weaker than beerus thanks to the manga.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Golden Frieza being faster than Dyspo is odd as hell. That means he is even faster than Blue Goku. Because even Goku needed to switch to blue to maximize his speed and power, and needeed to rely on Dyspo's predictable movements to keep up and he was still pushed back.

Hit was able to keep up with Dyspo after adapting to his speed though, right before Kunshi grabbed his leg.

And why didn't Dyspo use MLS mode on Hit?

Probably because the writers didn't come up with MLS until after 104.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

There's also the possibility that while Hit is in the SSB tier in terms of power, he can be in the SSG tier in terms of speed. Remember than a 90,000 Goku was able to out speed a 120,000 Ginyu.

Hit could also be inferior in terms of strength too. Whereas when Super Saiyan Blue Goku threw a punch at Jiren and sent them both backwards through rocks and Jiren had to guard against it, when Hit threw a punch at Jiren he casually stopped it just by putting up his hand, more along the lines of how he stopped Super Saiyan God Goku's punch except that was a finger.

Also seeing how Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta did against Jiren where he was actually able to hit him twice without tricks then it could be that they're comfortably ahead of Hit power level wise.

If Hit is in the same ballpark of power as he was back in the U6 Tournament then it would make sense. So he could be roughly Super Saiyan Blue level from the Golden Frieza saga. With his abilities it really puts him up there, like Dyspo.

Didn't one of Hit's punches send Jiren flying through a few rocks? He used that punch to apply Time Cage to Hit, but Time Cage was never stated to increase the power of the punch. And SSB Goku managed to push back Jiren since Goku was propelling himself forward.

Also, Goku stated in 104 that Hit got stronger since their last fight, and Goku took a break from training right after their 2nd fight, so Hit should be stronger than SSB Goku.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

There's also the possibility that while Hit is in the SSB tier in terms of power, he can be in the SSG tier in terms of speed. Remember than a 90,000 Goku was able to out speed a 120,000 Ginyu.

Hit could also be inferior in terms of strength too. Whereas when Super Saiyan Blue Goku threw a punch at Jiren and sent them both backwards through rocks and Jiren had to guard against it, when Hit threw a punch at Jiren he casually stopped it just by putting up his hand, more along the lines of how he stopped Super Saiyan God Goku's punch except that was a finger.

Also seeing how Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta did against Jiren where he was actually able to hit him twice without tricks then it could be that they're comfortably ahead of Hit power level wise.

If Hit is in the same ballpark of power as he was back in the U6 Tournament then it would make sense. So he could be roughly Super Saiyan Blue level from the Golden Frieza saga. With his abilities it really puts him up there, like Dyspo.

Didn't one of Hit's punches send Jiren flying through a few rocks? He used that punch to apply Time Cage to Hit, but Time Cage was never stated to increase the power of the punch. And SSB Goku managed to push back Jiren since Goku was propelling himself forward.

Also, Goku stated in 104 that Hit got stronger since their last fight, and Goku took a break from training right after their 2nd fight, so Hit should be stronger than SSB Goku.

I believe that particular strike was the HEART STOPPER technique that Hit used against Goku in the "Assassin Mini-Arc" AND Jiren, only he landed a blow first which then projected the HEART STOPPER filled with his Time Cage.

[Bullza]

Didn't one of Hit's punches send Jiren flying through a few rocks?

Well he did I suppose but he only even got that punch in through some trickery unlike Vegeta.

Of course another key thing is that in the latest episode Dyspo punched Golden Frieza right in the face and Frieza laughed at how weak it was and then kicked him around. Meanwhile Dyspo punched Hit in the face and he went down on one knee.

So Hit certainly isn't as tough as Golden Frieza and he's not as fast as Golden Frieza.

Then with what I said about how Jiren casually caught Hits punch but didn't with Super Saiyan Blue Goku and also how he knocked Hit off the stage with a red orb of energy but Vegeta was able to push off the much bigger red beam of energy then it all does kind seem that there's a significant difference in power.

[Jexulus]

I think Hit's raw strength is being slightly overestimated. A big reason why Hit is as renowned in U6 as he is is simply due to skills as an assassin. He can strike a lethal blow very fast, and that's usually enough. However, as shown vs. Goku and in this tournament, if Hit can't end the fight quickly against an opponent of comparable power or even someone who slightly edges him out, his chances of success go way down, especially in a setting where he can't kill his opponents.

It comes down to his training, and by extension his chosen style. His Time Skip is what allows him to keep with opponents far stronger than him in an environment where he can't outright kill someone. However, his raw damage-dealing strength was/is probably nowhere near the level that he needs against most of the U7 combatants. Also, the fact that Time Skip is something that trained senses can detect is about to happen and can be shattered by a surge of ki at the right moment means that he can lose his major advantage in a way unlike most fighters.

Honestly, Hit is one of my favorite characters introduced in Super because he's a fish out of water, an assassin who finds himself fighting opponents who can annihilate solar systems by yelling.

[Noah]

Well, He's probably stronger than Vegetto Blue who fought Merged Zamasu, but a current Vegetto would be stronger than him and 100% unseen full power Beerus too.

I really doubt it. Especially when Belmod seems to be no weaker than Beerus thanks to the manga.

Sure, but we're mainly talking about anime, where no such thing as Belmod > Beerus was even implied.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Well, He's probably stronger than Vegetto Blue who fought Merged Zamasu, but a current Vegetto would be stronger than him and 100% unseen full power Beerus too.

I really doubt it. Especially when Belmod seems to be no weaker than Beerus thanks to the manga.

Sure, but we're mainly talking about anime, where no such thing as Belmod > Beerus was even implied.

It was implied, by whis in episode 93, where he said that the mortals god just happens to be above beerus As well, the. Beerus says that he only ever lost at an arm wrestling match.

[Noah]

It was implied, by whis in episode 93, where he said that the mortals god just happens to be above beerus As well, the. Beerus says that he only ever lost at an arm wrestling match.

I don't think that was Belmod as he and Beerus never interacted in the ToP after all. Quitela being the one who beat Beerus at an arm wrestling competition is something plausible since Beerus, in the anime, noted how he "wasn't good with that guy," and surprisingly didn't retort against Quitela's snarky remark about U7 during the tournament.

[Miracles]

It was implied, by whis in episode 93, where he said that the mortals god just happens to be above beerus As well, the. Beerus says that he only ever lost at an arm wrestling match.

I don't think that was Belmod as he and Beerus never interacted in the ToP after all. Quitela being the one who beat Beerus at an arm wrestling competition is something plausible since Beerus, in the anime, noted how he "wasn't good with that guy," and surprisingly didn't retort against Quitela's snarky remark about U7 during the tournament.

BINGO. We have a few instances where Quitela and Beerus interact with each other like rivals. Squabbling over decisions made.
Not too mention this is baked by the manga which also follows and does NOT deviate from basis of the plot lines.

[Kenneth La Torre]

It was implied, by whis in episode 93, where he said that the mortals god just happens to be above beerus As well, the. Beerus says that he only ever lost at an arm wrestling match.

I don't think that was Belmod as he and Beerus never interacted in the ToP after all. Quitela being the one who beat Beerus at an arm wrestling competition is something plausible since Beerus, in the anime, noted how he "wasn't good with that guy," and surprisingly didn't retort against Quitela's snarky remark about U7 during the tournament.

Manga =\= anime. You used that logic yourself, so cant dispute it now. As far as the anime os concerned jiren > belmod, who is implied > beerus by whis. If you want to use manga, belmod encapsulated all gods, injured them all,
Took no damage from liquirs tailed beast bombs (pun), and was one of the last 3 battle-able gods
At the end. We also know that the gap between all gods is very small in terms of power.

You can believe what you want now, as jiren is of yet to show his full power, but i wouldnt be surprissed if he is outright stated to be beyond the level of G.o.D once he goes all out (which whis even speculated himself)

[Noah]

I don't think that was Belmod as he and Beerus never interacted in the ToP after all. Quitela being the one who beat Beerus at an arm wrestling competition is something plausible since Beerus, in the anime, noted how he "wasn't good with that guy," and surprisingly didn't retort against Quitela's snarky remark about U7 during the tournament.

Manga =\= anime. You used that logic yourself, so can''t dispute it now. As far as the anime os concerned Jiren > Belmod, who is implied > Beerus by Whis.
If you want to use manga, Belmod encapsulated all gods, injured them all, took no damage from Liquirs tailed beast bombs (pun), and was one of the last 3 battle-able gods
At the end.

But, I'm still using pal. Beerus never interacting with Belmod and his interactions with the Quitela are all in the anime. Whis never implied that Belmod was strong than Beerus, don't create things. We know that Jiren is stronger than the GoD from Universe 11, but not all GoDs.

[Amir]

Hit kept up with SSJB without time skip before he even started improving, took hits from Jiren and was still fine, managed to block many of Jiren's agressive assaults, took hits from KKx10 and it only made him stronger, he is insanely durable. His striking power is enough to send Jiren flying with a punch. His invisible punches are strong enough to hurt SSJB with serious damage.

He is definitely SSJB level + hax.