Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Lord Frieza]

New episode, pretty interesting this one.

Base Goku seems to be holding his own against Ribrianne, which is kind of odd considering she can hold her own against Super Saiyan Vegeta and Android 17 so maybe she's not fighting seriously.

Yea I found that part of the Battle Strange , we Know that Ribrianne can Tank SSJ-Vegeta and 17 who are powerful fighters yet both Goku and Ribrianne where REALLY both holding back in base forms. Ribrianne and Goku barely both looked winded, so I don't get why Toei is holding both of them back, was hoping for higher levels cause I know Ribrianne has shown that. But Toei likes to hold back at times that make little sense, so it was a good battle for what it was worth ~~~ All 3-5 mins of it, Very Short.

Ribriannewent toe-to-toe with SS Vegeta, which means she can easily do the same with Goku.

[GodVegetto91]

This episode marks the first time where we see Zeno erase a single person on-screen. (Without taking a universe with it in the process).
I'm now even more convinced that he could erase the Grand Priest as easily as anyone else.

[brett wheeler]

New episode, pretty interesting this one.

Base Goku seems to be holding his own against Ribrianne, which is kind of odd considering she can hold her own against Super Saiyan Vegeta and Android 17 so maybe she's not fighting seriously.

Jimizu seemed stronger than Base Gohan or maybe just the instant transmission helped. We did see Goku fighting him as a Super Saiyan so he'd probably above Base level.

Frieza beat the tar out of him though. also seemed stronger than Base Gohan when they clashed but I'm not sure if that's because he was injured or what. Frieza might also have been holding back from the looks of it?

Golden Frieza and Ultimate Gohan fought and they seemed fairly even at first so that might fit with him putting up a good fight against Super Saiyan Blue Goku making him God level but then he clearly lost but again not sure if it was partly because he was injured or if Golden Frieza was still holding back.

I don't really know if this does or doesn't confirm any Base power retcon.

Final form Freeza wasn't completely overwhelmed by Ultimate Gohan and managed to hold his own for a while.

If there isn't a Saiyan beyond God then Freeza should have been on the ground after getting hit.

What more do people need?

An actual statement about how goku is weaker agianst x but not y and then them saying oh well he is using ssg power in base, and also a sound argument about the fact that saiyan beyond gods description was litteraly goku and vegeta being stronger than ssg in base but now they use ssg still, how does that make sense the way the story is written and the way they seem to be playing it off as is base goku/vegeta/frieza are really strong stronger than all z probably but not god lvl till they go god or blue or golden, at no other point have they been stated to be near that lvl other than the one time ssj goku fought beerus,was even then beerus got depressed at ssj goku and started winning more and I'm guessing that's because the ssg power was fluctuating and he couldn't controls it now that he can he transforms to ssg or ssb depending on witch form he adds it on to ( base or ssj ) there is no debate for 2 bases, as it makes no sense as to why goku or vegeta just don't use it all the time as it wouldn't be as taxing and there is no argument do to the fact nobody has even noticed any difference in base goku's or vegeta"s base power in anime and even in super they always acknowledge power jumps like that.

[Bullza]

I'll wait for the subs but it doesn't look like Gohan was faking it until the last hit.

Well from the looks of it Gohan was on to what Frieza was doing from the very first punch. It's going to make it awkward to determine much from it knowing that they were seemed to be putting on a show for Frieza.

I don't really understand what the point of it was. If Champa said that Frost wasn't a match for Frieza then why didn't Frieza should knock him out right then? Why not just turn Golden and knock him off? Why is he using more energy by turning Golden and putting on a fake fight to gain Frost's trust and catch him off guard if he was already a lot stronger than him in Final Form?

[GodVegetto91]

The way he did it was flawless! So smoothly. He merely raised his hand and Frost literally dissapeared instantly. No time, bye!
It was really a cool and stylish way, the way they portrayed it and animated that scene was amazing.
Zeno the eraser!

This technique is very different from the "Hakai" which involves a long(er) process of excruciating pain and torture before they "go".

[Lord Frieza]

I'll wait for the subs but it doesn't look like Gohan was faking it until the last hit.

Well from the looks of it Gohan was on to what Frieza was doing from the very first punch. It's going to make it awkward to determine much from it knowing that they were seemed to be putting on a show for Frieza.

I don't really understand what the point of it was. If Champa said that Frost wasn't a match for Frieza then why didn't Frieza should knock him out right then? Why not just turn Golden and knock him off? Why is he using more energy by turning Golden and putting on a fake fight to gain Frost's trust and catch him off guard if he was already a lot stronger than him in Final Form?

Probably because Frost is good at hidding himself. He was able to run out on SSB Vegeta without Vegeta being able to pick up on him aftwards. So the rouse was to insure Frost's guard was down competely insureing Frieza could get rid of him on the first try.

[SuperDragoon]

Gohan may not have been knocked out, but he clearly was totally dominated in the fight. He did not scratch Golden Freeza with that blow and fell with a kick.

This shows that it is not Goku SSB level, is far from it

How did you come to that conclusion? Gohan was already able to land hits on Goku and make him use Kaioken. In this very episode he somewhat at least held his own against Golden Freeza while weakened and hit him. If anything this proves Ultimate Gohan isn't far away from SSB Goku in strength.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

I'll wait for the subs but it doesn't look like Gohan was faking it until the last hit.

Well from the looks of it Gohan was on to what Frieza was doing from the very first punch. It's going to make it awkward to determine much from it knowing that they were seemed to be putting on a show for Frieza.

I don't really understand what the point of it was. If Champa said that Frost wasn't a match for Frieza then why didn't Frieza should knock him out right then? Why not just turn Golden and knock him off? Why is he using more energy by turning Golden and putting on a fake fight to gain Frost's trust and catch him off guard if he was already a lot stronger than him in Final Form?

Probably because Frost is good at hidding himself. He was able to run out on SSB Vegeta without Vegeta being able to pick up on him aftwards. So the rouse was to insure Frost's guard was down competely insureing Frieza could get rid of him on the first try.

If Frieza could easily find Jimizu, then he should have had no problem with finding Frost.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Gohan may not have been knocked out, but he clearly was totally dominated in the fight. He did not scratch Golden Freeza with that blow and fell with a kick.

This shows that it is not Goku SSB level, is far from it

How did you come to that conclusion? Gohan was already able to land hits on Goku and make him use Kaioken. In this very episode he somewhat at least held his own against Golden Freeza while weakened and hit him. If anything this proves Ultimate Gohan isn't far away from SSB Goku in strength.

Dude, watch the episode. Gohan NEVER forced Goku to use the Kaioken, he just asked his father to use all his power and that's exactly what he did.

In this fight, Gohan did no damage to Freeza, nor did he scratch it.
Freeza was restraining himself against killing Gohan and totally dominated him.

The Saiyajin was defeated

[SuperDragoon]

Gohan may not have been knocked out, but he clearly was totally dominated in the fight. He did not scratch Golden Freeza with that blow and fell with a kick.

This shows that it is not Goku SSB level, is far from it

How did you come to that conclusion? Gohan was already able to land hits on Goku and make him use Kaioken. In this very episode he somewhat at least held his own against Golden Freeza while weakened and hit him. If anything this proves Ultimate Gohan isn't far away from SSB Goku in strength.

Dude, watch the episode. Gohan NEVER forced Goku to use the Kaioken, he just asked his father to use all his power and that's exactly what he did.

In this fight, Gohan did no damage to Freeza, nor did he scratch it.
Freeza was restraining himself against killing Gohan and totally dominated him.

The Saiyajin was defeated

All of that is purely headcanon. YOU rewatch the episode. Gohan was able to hurt SSB Goku and he used Kaioken without Gohan telling him to. Gohan even said he would use his full power on SSB Goku, implying he was holding back before. The narrator also confirmed that Gohan was on SSB Goku's level.
In this very episode Gohan was able to land hits on GOLDEN FREEZA. While weakened. If Gohan was nowhere near SSB he could not have done what he did.

[CJStriker_CBR]

New episode, pretty interesting this one.

Base Goku seems to be holding his own against Ribrianne, which is kind of odd considering she can hold her own against Super Saiyan Vegeta and Android 17 so maybe she's not fighting seriously.

Yea I found that part of the Battle Strange , we Know that Ribrianne can Tank SSJ-Vegeta and 17 who are powerful fighters yet both Goku and Ribrianne where REALLY both holding back in base forms. Ribrianne and Goku barely both looked winded, so I don't get why Toei is holding both of them back, was hoping for higher levels cause I know Ribrianne has shown that. But Toei likes to hold back at times that make little sense, so it was a good battle for what it was worth ~~~ All 3-5 mins of it, Very Short.

Ribriannewent toe-to-toe with SS Vegeta, which means she can easily do the same with Goku.

Heck Yea, their is NO WAY Base Goku is More Powerful then SSJ-Vegeta or how Hard 17 was fighting Ribrianne, so with that I know they where both holding back.

It still feels like they are holding Ribrianne back for some reasons, maybe for later on after the Major Battle with Jiren and Goku finally starts the 3rd acts cause it is Likely Ribrianne will be one of the final fighters in this. BUT I am wanting to see her finally fight opponents showing higher levels that I know she has shown already, so it just a inch Toei is not ready to scratch yet for some reason, BUT one that is making me inch to finally have it Scratch!

Also looks like Ribrianne has a winged form, so it looks like she has more transformations to come, I think beyond that one too.

[Lord Frieza]

Well from the looks of it Gohan was on to what Frieza was doing from the very first punch. It's going to make it awkward to determine much from it knowing that they were seemed to be putting on a show for Frieza.

I don't really understand what the point of it was. If Champa said that Frost wasn't a match for Frieza then why didn't Frieza should knock him out right then? Why not just turn Golden and knock him off? Why is he using more energy by turning Golden and putting on a fake fight to gain Frost's trust and catch him off guard if he was already a lot stronger than him in Final Form?

Probably because Frost is good at hidding himself. He was able to run out on SSB Vegeta without Vegeta being able to pick up on him aftwards. So the rouse was to insure Frost's guard was down competely insureing Frieza could get rid of him on the first try.

If Frieza could easily find Jimizu, then he should have had no problem with finding Frost.

Teleporting and hiding are not the same. Frieza could have sensed Jims ki, felt the air vibrations lol S17 or just predicted his moves.

Frost going to ground and hiding his ki a different kind of problem, as Frost can the just avoids Frieza and stalk weaker fighters from the shadows as befor.

[incarnati0n]

Dude, watch the episode. Gohan NEVER forced Goku to use the Kaioken, he just asked his father to use all his power and that's exactly what he did.

In this fight, Gohan did no damage to Freeza, nor did he scratch it.
Freeza was restraining himself against killing Gohan and totally dominated him.

The Saiyajin was defeated

I guess you are the one who didn't watch the episode since it is heavily implied that, from the weak puch that frieza threw against base Gohan that the whole fight was staged. Also Gohan after going ultimate not only made Frieza go golden but they also got similar hits on each other until the fake kick from Frieza that put Gohan down just to trick Frost.

Also, Gohan only asked his dad to power up to ssb, after Goku went ssb Gohan didn't say anything else. Goku went Kaioken on his own accord and not because Gohan asked him to do it.

[Bullza]

It was an acted out fight so neither probably did any significant damage whatsoever to either one. That said it does kinda give me the impression that Gohan probably is of that kind level, similar to perhaps Dyspo.

The more interesting thing is that Final Form Frieza is much stronger than Final Form Frost which of course means that Piccolo really wasn't as strong as the Base Saiyans during the Universe 6 Tournament.

It should go something like

Base Goku = Final Form Frieza >> Final Form Frost >> Piccolo

So the question of did Vegeta really need to turn Super Saiyan to beat Frost would seemingly now an answer, no he didn't.

[TheSaiyanGod]

How did you come to that conclusion? Gohan was already able to land hits on Goku and make him use Kaioken. In this very episode he somewhat at least held his own against Golden Freeza while weakened and hit him. If anything this proves Ultimate Gohan isn't far away from SSB Goku in strength.

Dude, watch the episode. Gohan NEVER forced Goku to use the Kaioken, he just asked his father to use all his power and that's exactly what he did.

In this fight, Gohan did no damage to Freeza, nor did he scratch it.
Freeza was restraining himself against killing Gohan and totally dominated him.

The Saiyajin was defeated

All of that is purely headcanon. YOU rewatch the episode. Gohan was able to hurt SSB Goku and he used Kaioken without Gohan telling him to. Gohan even said he would use his full power on SSB Goku, implying he was holding back before. The narrator also confirmed that Gohan was on SSB Goku's level.
In this very episode Gohan was able to land hits on GOLDEN FREEZA. While weakened. If Gohan was nowhere near SSB he could not have done what he did.

Was he able to hurt Goku SSB? When did you see it? When was this shown? Do not make up lies

'' Gohan has achieved a power that rivals that of Goku. '' Yes, with the Goku SSJ2.

Why, conveniently, does that mean that Gohan rivals Blue? it means absolutely nothing.
Gohan asked Goku to use ALL OF HIS POWER, this includes the Kaioken. Goku has never been '' forced to use ''.

And Freeza clearly had to restrain himself from killing Gohan on this EP. Your superiority is indisputable

[ZombieVito]

It was an acted out fight so neither probably did any significant damage whatsoever to either one. That said it does kinda give me the impression that Gohan probably is of that kind level, similar to perhaps Dyspo.

The more interesting thing is that Final Form Frieza is much stronger than Final Form Frost which of course means that Piccolo really wasn't as strong as the Base Saiyans during the Universe 6 Tournament.

It should go something like

Base Goku = Final Form Frieza >> Final Form Frost >> Piccolo

So the question of did Vegeta really need to turn Super Saiyan to beat Frost would seemingly now an answer, no he didn't.

We can't know for sure.

Goku and Vegeta have increased their strength by a considerable amount since the U6 arc while Freeza only increased his Golden form multiplier.

[LowRyder2005]

Freeza one-shots Jimeze when base Gohan can barely keep up with him and Final Form Freeza is confirmed to be stronger than Final Form Frost. I'm satisfied.

[AloversGaming]

Somehow Zeno wiping out Frost so instantly was more impressive than when he did it to the universes. Just pop; dead.

[Shlugo]

Freeza stomped Jimez, while Gohan got beaten up like a scrub. I dunno if he's that much stronger or simply more skilled fighter.


The whole Freeza vs Gohan fight, Freeza was holding back right from the first punch, so we can't really use it to pinpoint their strength.


Meanwhile Goku holds back while fighting Ribrianne and doesn't even use Super Saiyan 1. Because of course he doesn't.

At least next week he'll be fighting seriously against Jiren.

[Lord Frieza]

Just wondering.....has Frost even mastered his final form?

We know he never used it much befor and he's not exactly been training. Given the way he reacts to Frieza bulking up it seem like he never did it befor or at least has not used it.

Hell going by Frieza's RoF performance he can power up to full without bulking up like on namek. Frieza using that form to trick Frost into letting his guard down makes Frost look even less impressive.