Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Zamasu55]

So base on freeza´s performance against Dyspo, can we state that he is stronger than Hit?

No.

[Freezerbaby]

So Caulifla pretty much does nothing for a while and she's ridiculously more powerful because of it? Sounds just as sound of an explanation as Goku restoring his stamina by fighting as hard as he can at any given opportunity.

Also, a tired SSG Goku no sells Kale's point blank ki blast and totally whoops Caulifla as an SS2, after his SS2 self was able to stalemate her so the idea either of them are close to SSG tier is preposterous.

Toei logic at its finest, look a Hit for example:

If he was as strong as his Episode 104 self, Jiren shouldve been trashed him faster than Pre UI Kaioken Goku.

Going by feats, Saonel and Pirina are stronger than Episode 104 Hit due to overwhelming Gohan, who is now equal to that version of Hit too.

Hit only had trouble in 104 with Dyspo because Dyspo knew about Hit's secret techniques while Hit knew nothing about Dyspo's secret technique. Once Hit learned Dyspo's ability and they were both on an even playing field, Hit destroyed him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a41XJtD-GL4

It is a pity that we didn´t get to see Hit vs super maximum light speed mode dyspo

[Freezerbaby]

So base on freeza´s performance against Dyspo, can we state that he is stronger than Hit?

No.

Golden freeza didn´t even have to outsmart dyspo to match his speed, he was already faster than him, and in terms of raw power he is above, I put his max speed mode aside cause hit didn´t have to face him.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Freeza himself suggested on EP 121 that he was weaker than Goku SSG, and that was why Aniraza went after him (even with Goku by his side).

I think what we can say is that Dyspo was contained. He only used his true speed against Golden Freeza, and with that he managed to press him.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Wonder why dyspo never though of using histrue power against hit.

[Bullza]

I definitely don't think that Final Form Frieza is Super Saiyan God level. He was only supposed to be around Base level originally.

Yes, he was around a base Goku that was supposed to be as strong as his Super Saiyan God self from BoG, what's the issue here?

His Base form was never as strong as Super Saiyan God though.

[Doctor.]

I definitely don't think that Final Form Frieza is Super Saiyan God level. He was only supposed to be around Base level originally.

Yes, he was around a base Goku that was supposed to be as strong as his Super Saiyan God self from BoG, what's the issue here?

His Base form was never as strong as Super Saiyan God though.

That was clearly the intent in RoF.

[Bullza]

That was clearly the intent in RoF.

Who knows but in the saga (where he also said the same dialogue) they made it clear that they weren't at the level of Gods. Vegeta had never even experienced Godly Ki at the time either.

Vegeta was powered up from the training. Goku was seemingly powered up from experiencing​Super Saiyan God but neither was supposed to be God level and they were able to turn Super Saiyan the whole time and even with that they weren't meant to be at God level.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I wonder how the next episode will go.

Will Toppo truly ascend to the level of the Hakaishin? The NEP sure makes it seem that way. But then, the question remains if this is a recent development, or something he's had hidden for awhile. Unlike other Hakaishin with that signature aura, his eyes are glowing, whereas regular ones retain their normal physical appearance. In fact, this is much like how Goku's Ultra Instinct has some subtle but noticeable differences from his normal physical state, compared to when Hakaishin and Angels like Beerus and Whis use it.

I might need to take that particular thought to other threads for discussion.

What do you guys think? Is Toppo breaking his limits, or do you think he's always been capable of achieving this power? And will this power rival known Hakaishin like Belmod and Beerus?

[Kenneth La Torre]

I wonder how the next episode will go.

Will Toppo truly ascend to the level of the Hakaishin? The NEP sure makes it seem that way. But then, the question remains if this is a recent development, or something he's had hidden for awhile. Unlike other Hakaishin with that signature aura, his eyes are glowing, whereas regular ones retain their normal physical appearance. In fact, this is much like how Goku's Ultra Instinct has some subtle but noticeable differences from his normal physical state, compared to when Hakaishin and Angels like Beerus and Whis use it.

I might need to take that particular thought to other threads for discussion.

What do you guys think? Is Toppo breaking his limits, or do you think he's always been capable of achieving this power? And will this power rival known Hakaishin like Belmod and Beerus?

While i think he will rival the real halaishins, rivaling does not mean equaling. In my opinion, is more like toppo could give a good tougth fight to a hakaishin, but would lose to them.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah, after watching the episode subbed I still think Freeza is base level in his Final form.

Not only did Freeza said the same thing Goku did in 104 (Dyspo's movements are linear and so very easily predictable) but Dyspo wasn't even using his full speed at the beginning. Once he increased his speed Freeza couldn't do anything but block and had to turn Golden.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I wonder how the next episode will go.

Will Toppo truly ascend to the level of the Hakaishin? The NEP sure makes it seem that way. But then, the question remains if this is a recent development, or something he's had hidden for awhile. Unlike other Hakaishin with that signature aura, his eyes are glowing, whereas regular ones retain their normal physical appearance. In fact, this is much like how Goku's Ultra Instinct has some subtle but noticeable differences from his normal physical state, compared to when Hakaishin and Angels like Beerus and Whis use it.

I might need to take that particular thought to other threads for discussion.

What do you guys think? Is Toppo breaking his limits, or do you think he's always been capable of achieving this power? And will this power rival known Hakaishin like Belmod and Beerus?

While i think he will rival the real halaishins, rivaling does not mean equaling. In my opinion, is more like toppo could give a good tougth fight to a hakaishin, but would lose to them.

But his current level (around SSB and SSB KK) is already able to rival the Hakaishins. Even in the tournament of exhibition, the gods mention this when Goku becomes SSB.

So I believe that Toppo's power is to raise his level even more. We do not know if he will really reach the level of a Hakaishin, but it is possible

[Bullza]

So Hit couldn't even see Dyspo do his Super Speed technique but Golden Frieza was even faster than Dyspo using that technique is that correct or not?

[Kenneth La Torre]

So Hit couldn't even see Dyspo do his Super Speed technique but Golden Frieza was even faster than Dyspo using that technique is that correct or not?

Seems like it. Sounds dumb tho.

[Bullza]

Seems like it. Sounds dumb tho.

It is a bit odd. Dyspo was even faster than Super Saiyan God Goku as well, so would that suggest that Hit is closer to God level than Blue level like in the manga?

After all he has been over powered by Super Saiyan Blue Goku twice now. Maybe he's not as powerful as we thought he was.

[ZombieVito]

So Hit couldn't even see Dyspo do his Super Speed technique but Golden Frieza was even faster than Dyspo using that technique is that correct or not?

Well, yeah. Hit is weaker than Blue tier.

I mean, a weakened SSB Goku was able to destroy his time sphere and beat him with just a Kamehameha in E72.

[Bullza]

Well, yeah. Hit is weaker than Blue tier.

I mean, a weakened SSB Goku was able to destroy his time sphere and beat him with just a Kamehameha in E72.

Was he weakened? I remember Goku powered up a massive aura when he did that.

I know in terms of raw power he would be weaker than Super Saiyan Blue but I'm saying he's probably a lot weaker than Blue than most probably thought he was.

Hit is definitely slower than Dyspo being that he couldn't see him move. Dyspo apparently is slower than Golden Frieza. Golden Frieza is as fast as Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

So it should mean that either Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Golden Frieza would be able to blitz Hit to an even greater extent. Though Jiren didn't neither did Goku when he fought him....

Edit: On second thought I'm undermining Hit too much. While he was outmatched by Blue Goku back at the Tournament he wasn't blitzed. So it might be more likely that Hit is low Blue level and it just speaks for how much Goku and Frieza have grown from then till now.

[ZombieVito]

Was he weakened? I remember Goku powered up a massive aura when he did that.

I know in terms of raw power he would be weaker than Super Saiyan Blue but I'm saying he's probably a lot weaker than Blue than most probably thought he was.

Hit is definitely slower than Dyspo being that he couldn't see him move. Dyspo apparently is slower than Golden Frieza. Golden Frieza is as fast as Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

So it should mean that either Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Golden Frieza would be able to blitz Hit to an even greater extent. Though Jiren didn't neither did Goku when he fought him....

Edit: On second thought I'm undermining Hit too much. While he was outmatched by Blue Goku back at the Tournament he wasn't blitzed. So it might be more likely that Hit is low Blue level and it just speaks for how much Goku and Frieza have grown from then till now.

Goku was getting the shit beaten out of him for almost the entire episode. He wasn't exactly fresh.

There's also the possibility that while Hit is in the SSB tier in terms of power, he can be in the SSG tier in terms of speed. Remember than a 90,000 Goku was able to out speed a 120,000 Ginyu.

[OLKv3]

Yes, he was around a base Goku that was supposed to be as strong as his Super Saiyan God self from BoG, what's the issue here?

His Base form was never as strong as Super Saiyan God though.

That was clearly the intent in RoF.

No it wasn't. His Base Form got completely embarrassed by Base/SSG Goku in RoF.

[Black Hawk]

Here's the way I personally see it in numerical values:

Freeza (Revival of F) - 2 (movie, manga) or 4 (anime)
SSJ Red Gokū (Battle of Gods) - 6
Base Gokū/Vegeta (Revival of F) - 6
Beerus (70% power, Battle of Gods) - 7
SSJ Blue Gokū/Vegeta (Revival of F) - 7.5
Golden Freeza (Revival of F) - 8
Beerus (100% power, Battle of Gods) - 10