Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ssj3kakarot
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:53 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:The thing with Infinite Zamasu is that, as the creators stated, he's one of the only true "cheat characters" the series has ever produced.

With his body destroyed, his soul went on to become immaterial and one with the multiverse itself since it was immortal. Simply blowing up everything wouldn't do it. You have to just erase EVERYTHING. Leave absolutely no trace whatsoever in any fashion for him to continue to exist in. And thus far, the only character we've seen with the capacity to erase on that level is Zeno.

While the likes of people on the level of a God of Destruction could probably destroy a Universe if they put in a lot of effort, it wouldn't solve the threat unless they did it to ALL the Universes AND their respective dimensions (a.k.a. the Demon Realm and Otherworld) until absolutely nothing was left whatsoever.
I really doubt any GoD or even the GP can destroy someone that was given inmortality by Zalama.


Agree completely. Clearly, GP is a giant compared to Infinite Zamsu, but the ability to wipe out an entire existence just by snapping his fingers is Thanos, oh wrong thread, is Zeno. Zeno is the only one thus far shown to be able to do that and it was that sort of power that was needed to defeat an enemy that fused with the fabic of the universe itself. GP wouldn't have been hurt at all by Infinite Zamasu, but he probably didn't have the means to erase Infinite Zamasu. That would also be the same for Jiren and virtually anyone else other than Zeno. They might be "stronger" than I.Z. but unable to "beat" them.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 pm

Interesting. Do Angels need rest?

If so IZ can just blast GP until he tires out and gets killed.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Interesting. Do Angels need rest?

If so IZ can just blast GP until he tires out and gets killed.

I'm not sure if they need rest but their power is so hax. If they do, they could probably sleep under a full attack from IZ. Think of the scene where Perfect Cell is just taking kicks to the face and not even noticing. An elephant never has to worry about an ants bite, no matter how many times it nibbles.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:05 am

ssj3kakarot wrote: I'm not sure if they need rest but their power is so hax. If they do, they could probably sleep under a full attack from IZ. Think of the scene where Perfect Cell is just taking kicks to the face and not even noticing. An elephant never has to worry about an ants bite, no matter how many times it nibbles.
That Cell scene is filler. If they can get tired then they eventually will fall.

Could take a millennia or more but they should fall.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:06 am

A fight between Broly and Manga version Infinite Zamasu or Fused Zamasu would be interesting.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:26 am

ZombieVito wrote:
ssj3kakarot wrote: I'm not sure if they need rest but their power is so hax. If they do, they could probably sleep under a full attack from IZ. Think of the scene where Perfect Cell is just taking kicks to the face and not even noticing. An elephant never has to worry about an ants bite, no matter how many times it nibbles.
That Cell scene is filler. If they can get tired then they eventually will fall.

Could take a millennia or more but they should fall.
That Cell scene isn't filler, it's in the manga. It was merely extended a bit in the anime.

And they can just rest and recover stamina while IZ is attacking them. They're so far above him they wouldn't even notice.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:42 am

Jiren or Broly are still mere mortals, thus they need food, water, and sleep to live. Infinite Zamasu could just destroy the surfaces of every planet to deprive his opponents of the vital resources needed to sustain their bodies. Finally, even if he were a fly compared to the aforementioned Jiren or Broly, he'd still prove to be an annoyance. Can you take a nap or have some rest when a bug is bothering you? Of course you can't. But what if you can't remove that annoyance because it's immortal?

Do you understand now why no mere mortal may stand against the power of Infinite Zamasu? He will always prevail. Sheer strength is not everything, and in the end Zamasu will always outlast the likes of Jiren and Broly. As they are just mortals, and thus they are destined to wither away and die. Infinite Zamasu is the ultimate lifeform. Perfect, eternal, omnipresent, one with the very fabric of the cosmos. Only the King of All could defeat him by literally erasing the entire multiverse, thus obliterating every single trace of Zamasu forever.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:54 pm

Lol, tiring the GP? IZ is a lighter and the GP is a B-type star. We're talking about a higher being, second to Zeno only, above angels, hakaishins and of course kaioshins too, so even if he is not equipped to erase an immortal being that merges through dimensions (something he just might be able to do, the whole Zenoverse is built for Zeno to do as little as possible), and considering Whis can control time, he should be able to do the same but way, way better, might even control more dimensions than just time. And even if he cannot erase IZ (which sounds weird, why wouldn't the strongest fighting character of the show be able to erase more than one dimension?), he should be able to contain it while keeping his arms behind his back, he is worlds above the angels, IZ was not even hakaishin level. A lighter next to a blue supergiant. He is so OP that we'll never see him in battle, and if we ever do, well, remember puny Beerus being a moving goalpost?...

Jiren and Broly would get tired sooner or later and die, but probably would die of boredom instead

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Green_Goblin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:52 pm

I wanted to post something which I was thinking about these last few days. It's about Gohan's power level in Super as a whole as of yet.
So let's go from the beginning, it's the Battle of Gods Arc, Gohan is 4 years after his Ultimate form maximum from the Buu Saga (which is on-par or slightly stronger than SSJ 3 Goku of that time), he seems to be almost as in shape as back then when Beerus arrives on Earth, considering his physical appearance, but lacks the sharpness of back then (I'd say that he's at 70% of his Super Buu fight).

A few months had passed, and Frieza is back with us (for the 1000th time I believe?). Gohan's SSJ in Resurrection 'F' is nowhere near his Mystic/Ultimate prime from when he fought Super Buu, as Piccolo referred to that level as something so powerful even AFTER Gohan had fought (and technically won) against Basil, making his RoF base less than 2% of his Mystic power (50 times that will be a 100%). Making Tagoma look like a Super Perfect Cell tier at best and Shisami at Semi-Perfect Cell tier when is scaled realistically.

Gohan's path back to power began in episode 30, we are shown he was training again for a while with Piccolo (who should be stronger than the initial Majin Buu by this point), even though he's still rusty and NOT as powerful as he was back in his prime, but sure is much stronger than what he was against Frieza. Then he skips the Tournament of Destroyers and his power never to be scaled until Future Trunks shares a day with him and notes that his base is currently weaker than his SSJ 2 power back as a kid against Cell. Once Gohan is updated of Goku Black and Zamasu he goes to train with Piccolo in the Room of Spirit and Time ASAP and goes back to his Mystic prime (look at him when he bid Future Trunks and Future Mai farewell).

Then it's 3 months of peace and despite the fact he was indeed much weaker than his Mystic prime, he wasn't as weak and rusty as in RoF, that's shown with the Watagash/Barry Kahn conflict, and the baseball episode (70) where Champa compliments him despite his fragile figure ("You're pretty strong, eh?") after he survived SSB Goku's pitch. This situation of Gohan maintaining some degree of his true/best game power is shown when he spars with Goku in their family field at the beginning of episode 75, making his old man proud.

So basically he rose back to a nice piece of his power when he fought Basil, a character who's at Majin Vegeta's tier, and despite being much stronger than this tier (his SSJ and SSJ 2 caused Basil to resort to his dirty moves = Gohan's base at this point is stronger than BOTH what Goku and Vegeta were at base in the Majin Buu Saga), the canide alien had managed to gradually weaken him with his poison breathes. After a senzu bean recovery Gohan seems like he gained some small zenkai. Back on Earth right afterwards, all he was left to do to be back in the top of his game is to be fully drawn out by Piccolo motivating and fixing his mindset, after a session of some sparring against his old master and meditation he became even stronger in his Mystic/Ultimate form than ever before. Gohan is not satisfied, and again wants to go even further, he faces against his dad who is joined by Tien and shows them that he can handle the two of them at once (with some small aid from Piccolo by the end of match 1) - Goku is MUCH MUCH STRONGER than Vegeta's base power level that wiped Ginyu (who's stronger than Tagoma) to less than dust. Gohan wants to fight against his dad when he's at full power as well, so they each eat a senzu bean and begin match 2, Gohan is much stronger than his dad's current SSJ 2 and managed to become almost at SSB Kaioken tier. Goku is amazed by his quick progress.

Then comes the Tournament of Power, and in the span of 48 Earth minutes Gohan went a few levels up, starting with his battle against Botamo who's stronger than any villain from Z (sans Kid Buu, Buutenks and Buuhan) whom he defeated in his base form, moving to Obuni where his Mystic form's power level rose even higher, the Universe 6 Namekians which made him get further in the power levels chart, the Shantza and Damon fight where his wisdom kicked in (just like in most of his performance in this tournament), his fight against Universe 3's aces which took him higher once again (making what his pre-ToP max look like a different person who's less than 1/5 of his end-of-the-ToP self), he undoubtly grew much stronger as upon facing Dyspo he felt comfortable enough to tell Golden Frieza not to try anything funny against him (the same Golden Frieza was 20 minutes or so earlier a person who could kill Ultimate Gohan at any given moment), and his standings to the likes of God of Desturcion mode Toppo (a character who's leagues above the SSB Kaioken from 4.5 hours earlier Goku who effortlessly took out Gohan) and Dyspo (the latter is on-par with him due to his speed, but without it Dyspo is inferior to Gohan in strength).

Not to mention his manga version where he's on par with SSJ Kefla which makes him even more powerful than his anime self.

Bottom line is, Gohan's power in Super was mostly in downfall (with a brief increase by episode 30) but had a few steep peaks in the later part of the series, from the Zamasu Arc's end to Super episode 131 Gohan multiplied his battle power by more than any of the conventional Super Saiyan form will do to one's base (the current maximum is 400 times over by SSJ 3).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:13 pm

How strong do you guys think Broly would become if he mastered his Berzerk/Full Power SSJ form like Kale did?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:13 pm

Green_Goblin wrote:I wanted to post something which I was thinking about these last few days. It's about Gohan's power level in Super as a whole as of yet.
Well my short version is.

In the Battle of Gods saga, Gohan wasn't using his Ultimate form there. I know he did in the movie but in the anime, I don't know if they changed it to fit in with the characters arc of not training that was established in Resurrection F. So I don't know if that was meant to be Base Gohan there because he didn't have the bang which is associated with that form.

In the Resurrection F he might have been even weaker than in the Great Saiyanman saga because he didn't turn Super Saiyan 2 at all and he even said his body couldn't maintain Super Saiyan for very long.

Then he trained a bit with Piccolo, he was shown to be even with him in Base form but I don't really pay much attention to that now because Piccolo was almost as strong as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan later and I don't think Piccolo got 100 times stronger in a year. So I chalk that up to sparring.

Then he matches Goku when they were sparring before the Exhibition...that doesn't make sense at all because Gohan didn't have his "original strength", his Ultimate power from the Buu saga and Base Goku could well be far stronger than that himself. Can't really explain that also Goku was just holding back.

Then he reobtains this original strength but Piccolo says he still has more in him and he apparently powers up significantly to the point he can match Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

However he doesn't seem like he's really at that level. Like how Android 17 matched Super Saiyan Blue Goku but wasn't as strong as him, same thing likely with Ultimate Gohan. His Kamehameha completely unfazed Toppo whereas Goku's definitely did and even Golden Frieza's little blasts were hurting him.
ruler9871 wrote:How strong do you guys think Broly would become if he mastered his Berzerk/Full Power SSJ form like Kale did?
That can't really be answered because Broly was meant to be getting stronger and stronger throughout. Even by the end, he probably wasn't done. It depends how much more bottomless his power is.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:13 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:The thing with Infinite Zamasu is that, as the creators stated, he's one of the only true "cheat characters" the series has ever produced.

With his body destroyed, his soul went on to become immaterial and one with the multiverse itself since it was immortal. Simply blowing up everything wouldn't do it. You have to just erase EVERYTHING. Leave absolutely no trace whatsoever in any fashion for him to continue to exist in. And thus far, the only character we've seen with the capacity to erase on that level is Zeno.

While the likes of people on the level of a God of Destruction could probably destroy a Universe if they put in a lot of effort, it wouldn't solve the threat unless they did it to ALL the Universes AND their respective dimensions (a.k.a. the Demon Realm and Otherworld) until absolutely nothing was left whatsoever.
I really doubt any GoD or even the GP can destroy someone that was given inmortality by Zalama.


Agree completely. Clearly, GP is a giant compared to Infinite Zamsu, but the ability to wipe out an entire existence just by snapping his fingers is Thanos, oh wrong thread, is Zeno. Zeno is the only one thus far shown to be able to do that and it was that sort of power that was needed to defeat an enemy that fused with the fabic of the universe itself. GP wouldn't have been hurt at all by Infinite Zamasu, but he probably didn't have the means to erase Infinite Zamasu. That would also be the same for Jiren and virtually anyone else other than Zeno. They might be "stronger" than I.Z. but unable to "beat" them.
If Beerus can destroy 1 or 2 universes, than the Grand Priest can most certainly erase all 12 just like Zeno. You have no idea how mighty and all powerful the Grand Priest really is. This dude makes all 12 of his children look like nobodies.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:11 pm

I compliment Gohan for what he accomplished in the last arc, but considering he did so poorly in the other arcs, his growth in less than 5 hours is ridiculous. With this level of training, he could have fought Beerus, Golden Freeza, Hit and Goku Black. Give him an entire day and he might be able to challenge even Jiren.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:15 pm

I wonder if we could get some power comparisons between broly and ToP jiren and UI Goku with this new interview. Considering that SSJ Full power was not a Toriyama thing (interview will be up soon), it could change a lot of things if that statement was mean for golden hair broly on and not FPSSJ.

It's funny that even in a Toriyama movie, we have a similar case to something like LB jiren.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:19 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:I wonder if we could get some power comparisons between broly and ToP jiren and UI Goku with this new interview. Considering that SSJ Full power was not a Toriyama thing (interview will be up soon), it could change a lot of things if that statement was mean for golden hair broly on and not FPSSJ.

It's funny that even in a Toriyama movie, we have a similar case to something like LB jiren.
Logically, it kinda makes sense. Super Saiyan Full-Power was the result of Broly once again tapping into Oozaru power to infuse into his Super Saiyan form, even though he had transformed on top of an Oozaru-powered base that had seemingly tapped out on that power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:31 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:I wonder if we could get some power comparisons between broly and ToP jiren and UI Goku with this new interview. Considering that SSJ Full power was not a Toriyama thing (interview will be up soon), it could change a lot of things if that statement was mean for golden hair broly on and not FPSSJ.

It's funny that even in a Toriyama movie, we have a similar case to something like LB jiren.
Logically, it kinda makes sense. Super Saiyan Full-Power was the result of Broly once again tapping into Oozaru power to infuse into his Super Saiyan form, even though he had transformed on top of an Oozaru-powered base that had seemingly tapped out on that power.
Considering his golden haired version has already all the properties of the wrathful form, I have no idea what the hell his green haired version is even supposed to be.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:41 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:I compliment Gohan for what he accomplished in the last arc, but considering he did so poorly in the other arcs, his growth in less than 5 hours is ridiculous. With this level of training, he could have fought Beerus, Golden Freeza, Hit and Goku Black. Give him an entire day and he might be able to challenge even Jiren.
Amen! Going by ToP Logic, if gohan had trained for an hour or 2 every day in between Boo Saga and BoG, he would have probably beaten Beerus

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:51 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:I have no idea what the hell his green haired version is even supposed to be.
Shintani made a homage to old Broly and made the same mistake of the previous movies, not explaining the form. I’m mostly impressed to see how much these guys reaffirm their respect to Toriyama’s vision, but in the end they do what they have to do.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:59 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:I have no idea what the hell his green haired version is even supposed to be.
Shintani wanted to make a homage to old Broly but made the same mistake of the previous movies, not explaining the form. I’m mostly impressed to see how much these guys reaffirm their respect to Toriyama’s vision, but in the end they do what they have to do.
I agree with that.

And with the full interview out. It seems FPSSJ broly is filler like LB Jiren. I wonder if Gogeta Blue was also something they added in and it was just regular ssj gogeta. I hope more interview like this keep popping out.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:17 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:I wonder if Gogeta Blue was also something they added in and it was just regular ssj gogeta.
From what Nagamine responded, Toriyama’s outline wasn’t very detailed about the climax of the fight, so he really included a lot of his own ideas to make the fight look the most impressive possible. Interesting that he implies they were equally matched.

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