I noticed that people said Frost was Namek Saga Frieza level but that clearly isn’t the case. If Frost was able to tank a shin kikoho then that means he’s waaaay above Semi Perfect Cell
ZombieVito wrote:So Piccolo beat Bergamo without an issue in the manga.
Looks like he is over base tier.
1) Piccolo's already stronger than regular Bergamo in the anime.
2) The manga and the anime are different. Monna was fodder while in the anime she stomped Ssj Cabba.
The_Destroyer wrote:I noticed that people said Frost was Namek Saga Frieza level but that clearly isn’t the case. If Frost was able to tank a shin kikoho then that means he’s waaaay above Semi Perfect Cell
Zamasu55 wrote:
1) Piccolo's already stronger than regular Bergamo in the anime.
2) The manga and the anime are different. Monna was fodder while in the anime she stomped Ssj Cabba.
They were people who didnt think that.
Do we even know who eliminated Monna in the manga?
Besides the anime and manga aren't as different as you think. They come from the same source after all.
Zamasu55 wrote:
1) Piccolo's already stronger than regular Bergamo in the anime.
2) The manga and the anime are different. Monna was fodder while in the anime she stomped Ssj Cabba.
They were people who didnt think that.
Do we even know who eliminated Monna in the manga?
Besides the anime and manga aren't as different as you think. They come from the same source after all.
Without direct comparisons to make between characters themselves, it can be hard to tell how everyone stands next to each other.
Freeza, Buu, Piccolo, and the Saiyans are in this weird place where nobody knows exactly who's supposed to be stronger than who and by how much.
Zamasu55 wrote:Monna was fodder while in the anime she stomped Ssj Cabba.
That was merely because of her expanded form, which appears to be anime-only -- without it she was implied to have been slightly stronger than base Cabba but weaker than base Caulfila. Both versions most likely use the same strength foundation while still differentiating their power scales based on exclusive transformations, as has been observed thus far.
Zamasu55 wrote:Monna was fodder while in the anime she stomped Ssj Cabba.
That was merely because of her expanded form, which appears to be anime-only -- without it she was implied to have been slightly stronger than base Cabba but weaker than base Caulfila. Both versions most likely use the same strength foundation while still differentiating their power scales based on exclusive transformations, as has been observed thus far.
Wait. Was base Caulifla already stronger than base Cabba as of 112?
So in the manga as of now it seems
Krillin/Tien/Roshi<Universe 9 fighters<base Gohan<=>Piccolo<Frost<Frieza
Zamasu55 wrote:
The_Destroyer wrote:I noticed that people said Frost was Namek Saga Frieza level but that clearly isn’t the case. If Frost was able to tank a shin kikoho then that means he’s waaaay above Semi Perfect Cell
Frost is Ssj2 Buu saga tier at the very least.
I would say at least perfect Cell level. Tien's kikoho probably wouldn't phase perfect Cell either, and Piccolo has never proved to be perfect Cell level. I would say with the information given Frost can be anywhere between perfect Cell and Fat Buu.
- Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren duke it out. And, obviously, Goku comes out on top and batters Jiren.
- Jiren remembers his past, and it triggers Jiren (literally) to power up
- Jiren (with his shirt ripped off for... reasons) is powered up and bulked up and fights Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and it's fairly even.
- There then a beam struggle happens between the two of them... and Jiren wins
- Jiren (Powered Up For REAL) then starts to smack around Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku
- Goku seems down for the count but gets a second wind (naturally) and fights back to Jiren's frustration and shock
- Goku and Jiren duke it out and it appears dead even
- Goku then blasts Jiren with Kamehameha and appears to have Jiren at his mercy as Jiren is down for the count, but then...
- ULTRA INSTINCT BURNS OUT!! And Goku is down for the count.
- Jiren blasts Goku and Goku is going off the stage...
- BUT FREEZA MAKES THE SAVE AND BLASTS GOKU BACK ONTO THE STAGE!!!
- Oh, and #17 is still alive..
- It's now Goku (without Ultra Instinct), a battered #17 and Golden Freeza taking on Jiren.
End Scene
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Holy shit. Mastered UI goku and jiren were fucking dead even. Jiren even Maneges to tag Goku. HOLY FUCKING HELL. Where are the people who said UI was invinsible
Lord Beerus wrote:- Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren duke it out. And, obviously, Goku comes out on top and batters Jiren.
- Jiren remembers his past, and it triggers Jiren (literally) to power up
- Jiren (with his shirt ripped off for... reasons) is powered up and bulked up and fights Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and it's fairly even.
- There then a beam struggle happens between the two of them... and Jiren wins
- Jiren (Powered Up For REAL) then starts to smack around Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku
- Goku seems down for the count but gets a second wind (naturally) and fights back to Jiren's frustration and shock
- Goku and Jiren duke it out and it appears dead even
- Goku then blasts Jiren with Kamehameha and appears to have Jiren at his mercy as Jiren is down for the count, but then...
- ULTRA INSTINCT BURNS OUT!! And Goku is down for the count.
- Jiren blasts Goku and Goku is going off the stage...
- BUT FREEZA MAKES THE SAVE AND BLASTS GOKU BACK ONTO THE STAGE!!!
- Oh, and #17 is still alive..
- It's now Goku (without Ultra Instinct), a battered #17 and Golden Freeza taking on Jiren.
End Scene
Episode 131 is going to be crazy!
Majinwarman So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Btw, the preview for 130 made Goku look STUPIDLY good compared to jiren. Like, they were really bias.
I've said this a millions times... wait for the damn episode. But everyone always loves jumping the gun even though thought they've been mislead some many times in the past.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Btw, the preview for 130 made Goku look STUPIDLY good compared to jiren. Like, they were really bias.
I've said this a millions times... wait for the damn episode. But everyone always loves jumping the gun even though thought they've been mislead some many times in the past.
I know, but wow. Even after MUI goku powered up from being battered, jiren was still dead as even, till the blast at the end.
[spoiler]It seemed to me that Jiren has the edge in raw power while Goku has superior speed and agility due to UI. Jiren was constantly being warn down while Goku kept going strong but at a cost, Goku's limit broken power helped him keep fighting without seeming to slow down but the second he reach his limit all the damage and fatigue hit his body at once. Or at least thats how it looked to me.
jiren little murderous outburst is possibly what saved him from a ring out as it forced Goku to waste valuable seconds.[/spoiler]
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Btw, the preview for 130 made Goku look STUPIDLY good compared to jiren. Like, they were really bias.
yea main protag power is definitely thing, when they hype up fights they tend to hype it as goku is one shotting ( not really but ya know ), in terms of it the fight went more or less, goku > jiren, then jiren FP > goku, then threw friendship jiren = goku, then threw anger at the end its goku > jiren, a lot of this was each of them breaking limits to rival the next and fighting over ideals, actually a really great character development for jiren and goku so over all great fight.
