Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Well I'm not sure what happened there but it just looked like Goku used his Kamehameha to shatter his Parallel World and it left them both exhausted after. Not sure if that correlates to his strength.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.PFM18 wrote:From what? Warming up in SSG? The fight was never in jeopardy for Goku.ZombieVito wrote:Goku was weakened though.Hugo Boss wrote: It’s more like he can’t outdo Goku in that state. They were pretty much even, with Goku having a slight edge on skill.
I doubt Broly would be able to keep up with a fresh SSB Goku.
Why wasn't Vegeta depicted as doing better? He wouldn't have been weakened at all, but their performance was the same.
Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.Miracles wrote:Hit in his second bout against Goku is stronger than Black. He was able to equally match Blue Goku's Kamehameha to exhaustion. Which in the past, overpowered and damaged merged Zamas.
Hit was weaker than Blue Goku and Freeza in the TOP. Based on the performance against Dyspo.
Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Impossible. Characters get stronger as the series goes on. Goku's Kamehameha vs Merged Zamas was his "full power" just like it was against Hit in the second fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have reverted back to base state in fatigue.ZombieVito wrote:He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.PFM18 wrote:From what? Warming up in SSG? The fight was never in jeopardy for Goku.ZombieVito wrote: Goku was weakened though.
I doubt Broly would be able to keep up with a fresh SSB Goku.
Why wasn't Vegeta depicted as doing better? He wouldn't have been weakened at all, but their performance was the same.
Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.Miracles wrote:Hit in his second bout against Goku is stronger than Black. He was able to equally match Blue Goku's Kamehameha to exhaustion. Which in the past, overpowered and damaged merged Zamas.
Hit was weaker than Blue Goku and Freeza in the TOP. Based on the performance against Dyspo.
Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Goku didnt break his arms doing that Kamehameha against Hit. The Kamehameha against Zamasu was clearly amped beyond his limits.Miracles wrote:Impossible. Characters get stronger as the series goes on. Goku's Kamehameha vs Merged Zamas was his "full power" just like it was against Hit in the second fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have reverted back to base state in fatigue.ZombieVito wrote:He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.PFM18 wrote:
From what? Warming up in SSG? The fight was never in jeopardy for Goku.
Why wasn't Vegeta depicted as doing better? He wouldn't have been weakened at all, but their performance was the same.
Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.Miracles wrote:Hit in his second bout against Goku is stronger than Black. He was able to equally match Blue Goku's Kamehameha to exhaustion. Which in the past, overpowered and damaged merged Zamas.
Hit was weaker than Blue Goku and Freeza in the TOP. Based on the performance against Dyspo.
Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
Goku also wasnt significantly stronger than the Black arc.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Ultra Instinct Omen is hard to pinpoint, since it lacks attack strength but has incredible movement speed.ruler9871 wrote:How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
But Ultra Instinct is definitely a massive cut above SSB. At MINIMUM, it's equal to a Super Saiyan Blue FUSION, and that's technically a lowball for its massive strength and vastly more massive speed and reflexes. Right now, it's the hot new "greatest power-up ever", and that's only on top of Goku's power.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
UI Omen is clearly a power boost also, since he was abled to tank & trade hits with Jiren in it much better than he could in SSBKKx20.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Ultra Instinct Omen is hard to pinpoint, since it lacks attack strength but has incredible movement speed.ruler9871 wrote:How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
But Ultra Instinct is definitely a massive cut above SSB. At MINIMUM, it's equal to a Super Saiyan Blue FUSION, and that's technically a lowball for its massive strength and vastly more massive speed and reflexes. Right now, it's the hot new "greatest power-up ever", and that's only on top of Goku's power.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
It still lacks attack power relative to it's dodging abilities. That's his point.ruler9871 wrote:UI Omen is clearly a power boost also, since he was abled to tank & trade hits with Jiren in it much better than he could in SSBKKx20.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Ultra Instinct Omen is hard to pinpoint, since it lacks attack strength but has incredible movement speed.ruler9871 wrote:How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
But Ultra Instinct is definitely a massive cut above SSB. At MINIMUM, it's equal to a Super Saiyan Blue FUSION, and that's technically a lowball for its massive strength and vastly more massive speed and reflexes. Right now, it's the hot new "greatest power-up ever", and that's only on top of Goku's power.
Spoiler:
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.ZombieVito wrote:Goku didnt break his arms doing that Kamehameha against Hit. The Kamehameha against Zamasu was clearly amped beyond his limits.Miracles wrote:Impossible. Characters get stronger as the series goes on. Goku's Kamehameha vs Merged Zamas was his "full power" just like it was against Hit in the second fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have reverted back to base state in fatigue.ZombieVito wrote: He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.
Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.
Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
Goku also wasnt significantly stronger than the Black arc.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Statement that says he used his "full power" when doing the Kamehameha in E72?Miracles wrote: The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.
Regardless, the fact he broke his arms doing the Kamehameha should be enough evidence to say that attack was indeed stronger. Hell, I would even say it was the strongest Kamehameha he has ever done amplification wise.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Pretty much.ZombieVito wrote:Statement that says he used his "full power" when doing the Kamehameha in E72?Miracles wrote: The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.
Regardless, the fact he broke his arms doing the Kamehameha should be enough evidence to say that attack was indeed stronger. Hell, I would even say it was the strongest Kamehameha he has ever done amplification wise.
When an attack risks harming the user itself due to sheer overwhelming power, you KNOW that you're giving it your all. Roshi did a similar one against Ganos, but instead of his arms, Roshi used up a lot of his life force.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
And what evidence do you have of this being the case?supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
It's common sense based on what we can see in the scene. He's clearly shown straining because of Merged Zamasu's resistance. He broke his arms trying to push back Merged Zamasu's attack, not because he fired a full power Kamehameha.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:And what evidence do you have of this being the case?supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
And why would this be common sense?supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:It's common sense based on what we can see in the scene. He's clearly shown straining because of Merged Zamasu's resistance. He broke his arms trying to push back Merged Zamasu's attack, not because he fired a full power Kamehameha.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:And what evidence do you have of this being the case?supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
Goku's arms aren't shown any kind of damage during the struggle, merely the standard "anime character is struggling against an attack with all his might". It's only AFTER the actual Full-Power Kamehameha that his arms showcase legitimate battle damage, and most people seem to agree that Goku put out too much power in the struggle for his arms to be usable anymore.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
It doesn't matter if the damage was only shown afterwards. Goku straining and him firing his full power are all simultaneous events. He strained himself to push back Zamasu's attack, therefore his arms broke. Literally nothing implies that the Kamehameha did it. Goku doesn't break his arms by firing a full power Kamehameha.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:And why would this be common sense?supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:It's common sense based on what we can see in the scene. He's clearly shown straining because of Merged Zamasu's resistance. He broke his arms trying to push back Merged Zamasu's attack, not because he fired a full power Kamehameha.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: And what evidence do you have of this being the case?
I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
Goku's arms aren't shown any kind of damage during the struggle, merely the standard "anime character is struggling against an attack with all his might". It's only AFTER the actual Full-Power Kamehameha that his arms showcase legitimate battle damage, and most people seem to agree that Goku put out too much power in the struggle for his arms to be usable anymore.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
After much thought, I've come up with a Top 25 strongest fighters of DBS (anime version. I'll make manga version later) since the Broly film. This doesn't include Zeno and featless characters like his guards or Zalama:
1. Grand Priest
2. The 12 Angels
3. Current SSB fusion
4. MUI Goku
5. Awakened Jiren
6. Full Power Broly
7. Beerus & the stronger Hakaishin
8. SSBE Vegeta
9. God Toppo & the weaker Hakaishin
10. SSJ2 Kefla
11. Infinite Zamasu
12. Hope Sword Future Trunks
13. Black arc SSB Fusion
14. True Golden Freeza
15. Android 17
16. Aniraza
17. Hit
18. Ultimate Gohan
19. Full Speed Dyspo
20. SSJR Goku Black
21. Obuni
22. Pirina & Saonel (the U6 Namekians)
23. Maji Kayo
24. SSB Copy-Vegeta
25. Future Zamasu
Any ideas? Did I miss anybody?
1. Grand Priest
2. The 12 Angels
3. Current SSB fusion
4. MUI Goku
5. Awakened Jiren
6. Full Power Broly
7. Beerus & the stronger Hakaishin
8. SSBE Vegeta
9. God Toppo & the weaker Hakaishin
10. SSJ2 Kefla
11. Infinite Zamasu
12. Hope Sword Future Trunks
13. Black arc SSB Fusion
14. True Golden Freeza
15. Android 17
16. Aniraza
17. Hit
18. Ultimate Gohan
19. Full Speed Dyspo
20. SSJR Goku Black
21. Obuni
22. Pirina & Saonel (the U6 Namekians)
23. Maji Kayo
24. SSB Copy-Vegeta
25. Future Zamasu
Any ideas? Did I miss anybody?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
So what are people's thoughts on Moro? He gave Super Saiyan God Vegeta trouble. Was losing against Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta or what that meant to be Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta? But then he powered up further still.
Nothing yet to suggest he's on the level of Jiren or Broly.
Nothing yet to suggest he's on the level of Jiren or Broly.
Kale?ruler9871 wrote:Any ideas? Did I miss anybody?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Incorrect. A character breaking their arms does not determine attack strength. That's like saying Goku's Kamehameha against merged Zamas is stronger than the Kamehameha UI Goku used against Kefla or Jiren cause he didn't break his arms. That's not how DB works.ZombieVito wrote:Statement that says he used his "full power" when doing the Kamehameha in E72?Miracles wrote: The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.
Regardless, the fact he broke his arms doing the Kamehameha should be enough evidence to say that attack was indeed stronger. Hell, I would even say it was the strongest Kamehameha he has ever done amplification wise.
Goku used full power against Hit because he was at exhaustion.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
He falls on the category of tricky fighter. Not physically strong but able to corner Goku and Vegeta with his energy absorption ability.Bullza wrote:So what are people's thoughts on Moro?