Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:32 pm

Well I'm not sure what happened there but it just looked like Goku used his Kamehameha to shatter his Parallel World and it left them both exhausted after. Not sure if that correlates to his strength.

User avatar
ZombieVito
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5901
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:02 pm

PFM18 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote: It’s more like he can’t outdo Goku in that state. They were pretty much even, with Goku having a slight edge on skill.
Goku was weakened though.

I doubt Broly would be able to keep up with a fresh SSB Goku.
From what? Warming up in SSG? The fight was never in jeopardy for Goku.

Why wasn't Vegeta depicted as doing better? He wouldn't have been weakened at all, but their performance was the same.
He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.

Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Miracles wrote:Hit in his second bout against Goku is stronger than Black. He was able to equally match Blue Goku's Kamehameha to exhaustion. Which in the past, overpowered and damaged merged Zamas.

Hit was weaker than Blue Goku and Freeza in the TOP. Based on the performance against Dyspo.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.

Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).

ruler9871
Regular
Posts: 669
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:37 pm

How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3745
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:40 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote: Goku was weakened though.

I doubt Broly would be able to keep up with a fresh SSB Goku.
From what? Warming up in SSG? The fight was never in jeopardy for Goku.

Why wasn't Vegeta depicted as doing better? He wouldn't have been weakened at all, but their performance was the same.
He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.

Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Miracles wrote:Hit in his second bout against Goku is stronger than Black. He was able to equally match Blue Goku's Kamehameha to exhaustion. Which in the past, overpowered and damaged merged Zamas.

Hit was weaker than Blue Goku and Freeza in the TOP. Based on the performance against Dyspo.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.

Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
Impossible. Characters get stronger as the series goes on. Goku's Kamehameha vs Merged Zamas was his "full power" just like it was against Hit in the second fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have reverted back to base state in fatigue.

User avatar
ZombieVito
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5901
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:37 pm

Miracles wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
From what? Warming up in SSG? The fight was never in jeopardy for Goku.

Why wasn't Vegeta depicted as doing better? He wouldn't have been weakened at all, but their performance was the same.
He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.

Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.
Miracles wrote:Hit in his second bout against Goku is stronger than Black. He was able to equally match Blue Goku's Kamehameha to exhaustion. Which in the past, overpowered and damaged merged Zamas.

Hit was weaker than Blue Goku and Freeza in the TOP. Based on the performance against Dyspo.
Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.

Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
Impossible. Characters get stronger as the series goes on. Goku's Kamehameha vs Merged Zamas was his "full power" just like it was against Hit in the second fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have reverted back to base state in fatigue.
Goku didnt break his arms doing that Kamehameha against Hit. The Kamehameha against Zamasu was clearly amped beyond his limits.

Goku also wasnt significantly stronger than the Black arc.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:39 pm

ruler9871 wrote:How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
Ultra Instinct Omen is hard to pinpoint, since it lacks attack strength but has incredible movement speed.

But Ultra Instinct is definitely a massive cut above SSB. At MINIMUM, it's equal to a Super Saiyan Blue FUSION, and that's technically a lowball for its massive strength and vastly more massive speed and reflexes. Right now, it's the hot new "greatest power-up ever", and that's only on top of Goku's power.

ruler9871
Regular
Posts: 669
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:38 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
ruler9871 wrote:How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
Ultra Instinct Omen is hard to pinpoint, since it lacks attack strength but has incredible movement speed.

But Ultra Instinct is definitely a massive cut above SSB. At MINIMUM, it's equal to a Super Saiyan Blue FUSION, and that's technically a lowball for its massive strength and vastly more massive speed and reflexes. Right now, it's the hot new "greatest power-up ever", and that's only on top of Goku's power.
UI Omen is clearly a power boost also, since he was abled to tank & trade hits with Jiren in it much better than he could in SSBKKx20.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:26 am

ruler9871 wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
ruler9871 wrote:How big of a multiplier do you guys think UI Omen & MUI are compared to SSB?
Ultra Instinct Omen is hard to pinpoint, since it lacks attack strength but has incredible movement speed.

But Ultra Instinct is definitely a massive cut above SSB. At MINIMUM, it's equal to a Super Saiyan Blue FUSION, and that's technically a lowball for its massive strength and vastly more massive speed and reflexes. Right now, it's the hot new "greatest power-up ever", and that's only on top of Goku's power.
UI Omen is clearly a power boost also, since he was abled to tank & trade hits with Jiren in it much better than he could in SSBKKx20.
It still lacks attack power relative to it's dodging abilities. That's his point.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3745
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:45 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Miracles wrote:
ZombieVito wrote: He literally was K.O for a bit and even had trouble standing.

Vegeta doing better or not is irrelevant. They both couldnt do anything and were forced to flee.


Gokus Kamehameha was inferior to the one from E66.

Me personally I do have Black (Scythe) > Hit (ToP).
Impossible. Characters get stronger as the series goes on. Goku's Kamehameha vs Merged Zamas was his "full power" just like it was against Hit in the second fight. Otherwise he wouldn't have reverted back to base state in fatigue.
Goku didnt break his arms doing that Kamehameha against Hit. The Kamehameha against Zamasu was clearly amped beyond his limits.

Goku also wasnt significantly stronger than the Black arc.
The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.

User avatar
ZombieVito
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5901
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:21 am

Miracles wrote: The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.
Statement that says he used his "full power" when doing the Kamehameha in E72?

Regardless, the fact he broke his arms doing the Kamehameha should be enough evidence to say that attack was indeed stronger. Hell, I would even say it was the strongest Kamehameha he has ever done amplification wise.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:15 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Miracles wrote: The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.
Statement that says he used his "full power" when doing the Kamehameha in E72?

Regardless, the fact he broke his arms doing the Kamehameha should be enough evidence to say that attack was indeed stronger. Hell, I would even say it was the strongest Kamehameha he has ever done amplification wise.
Pretty much.

When an attack risks harming the user itself due to sheer overwhelming power, you KNOW that you're giving it your all. Roshi did a similar one against Ganos, but instead of his arms, Roshi used up a lot of his life force.

User avatar
supersaiyangodgogeta
Regular
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:29 am

Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:49 am

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
And what evidence do you have of this being the case?

I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.

User avatar
supersaiyangodgogeta
Regular
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:57 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
And what evidence do you have of this being the case?

I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
It's common sense based on what we can see in the scene. He's clearly shown straining because of Merged Zamasu's resistance. He broke his arms trying to push back Merged Zamasu's attack, not because he fired a full power Kamehameha.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:02 pm

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Goku broke his arms during his clash with Merged Zamasu because of the resistance that Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath gave against it. Goku doesn't break his arms from firing a Kamehameha at full power.
And what evidence do you have of this being the case?

I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
It's common sense based on what we can see in the scene. He's clearly shown straining because of Merged Zamasu's resistance. He broke his arms trying to push back Merged Zamasu's attack, not because he fired a full power Kamehameha.
And why would this be common sense?

Goku's arms aren't shown any kind of damage during the struggle, merely the standard "anime character is struggling against an attack with all his might". It's only AFTER the actual Full-Power Kamehameha that his arms showcase legitimate battle damage, and most people seem to agree that Goku put out too much power in the struggle for his arms to be usable anymore.

User avatar
supersaiyangodgogeta
Regular
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:11 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: And what evidence do you have of this being the case?

I don't recall any quoted dialogue or contextual clues implying this to be the case. The only thing we have is Goku very clearly saying that he's gonna give Merged Zamasu his full power with his Kamehameha, and then both his arms being limp and useless after this exchange.
It's common sense based on what we can see in the scene. He's clearly shown straining because of Merged Zamasu's resistance. He broke his arms trying to push back Merged Zamasu's attack, not because he fired a full power Kamehameha.
And why would this be common sense?

Goku's arms aren't shown any kind of damage during the struggle, merely the standard "anime character is struggling against an attack with all his might". It's only AFTER the actual Full-Power Kamehameha that his arms showcase legitimate battle damage, and most people seem to agree that Goku put out too much power in the struggle for his arms to be usable anymore.
It doesn't matter if the damage was only shown afterwards. Goku straining and him firing his full power are all simultaneous events. He strained himself to push back Zamasu's attack, therefore his arms broke. Literally nothing implies that the Kamehameha did it. Goku doesn't break his arms by firing a full power Kamehameha.

ruler9871
Regular
Posts: 669
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:53 pm

After much thought, I've come up with a Top 25 strongest fighters of DBS (anime version. I'll make manga version later) since the Broly film. This doesn't include Zeno and featless characters like his guards or Zalama:

1. Grand Priest
2. The 12 Angels
3. Current SSB fusion
4. MUI Goku
5. Awakened Jiren
6. Full Power Broly
7. Beerus & the stronger Hakaishin
8. SSBE Vegeta
9. God Toppo & the weaker Hakaishin
10. SSJ2 Kefla
11. Infinite Zamasu
12. Hope Sword Future Trunks
13. Black arc SSB Fusion
14. True Golden Freeza
15. Android 17
16. Aniraza
17. Hit
18. Ultimate Gohan
19. Full Speed Dyspo
20. SSJR Goku Black
21. Obuni
22. Pirina & Saonel (the U6 Namekians)
23. Maji Kayo
24. SSB Copy-Vegeta
25. Future Zamasu

Any ideas? Did I miss anybody?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:11 pm

So what are people's thoughts on Moro? He gave Super Saiyan God Vegeta trouble. Was losing against Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta or what that meant to be Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta? But then he powered up further still.

Nothing yet to suggest he's on the level of Jiren or Broly.
ruler9871 wrote:Any ideas? Did I miss anybody?
Kale?

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3745
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:03 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Miracles wrote: The definition of Goku's growth was not given. Even if it was just an inch he is still stronger than before. Goku breaking his arms or not still does not take away from the fact that he was using full power.
Statement that says he used his "full power" when doing the Kamehameha in E72?

Regardless, the fact he broke his arms doing the Kamehameha should be enough evidence to say that attack was indeed stronger. Hell, I would even say it was the strongest Kamehameha he has ever done amplification wise.
Incorrect. A character breaking their arms does not determine attack strength. That's like saying Goku's Kamehameha against merged Zamas is stronger than the Kamehameha UI Goku used against Kefla or Jiren cause he didn't break his arms. That's not how DB works.

Goku used full power against Hit because he was at exhaustion.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 4631
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:51 pm

Bullza wrote:So what are people's thoughts on Moro?
He falls on the category of tricky fighter. Not physically strong but able to corner Goku and Vegeta with his energy absorption ability.

Post Reply