Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[larzooma]

Re: Roshi and Jaco I made the change for this. Yeah, I haven't seen the RoF Saga in awhile, but I trust you that Jaco did worse than Roshi.

Re: Roshi and Tien I have felt conflicted about what Toshio said. It is weird that in the show Goku says nothing about the power-up coming from the witchcraft controlling Roshi, rather it is training he has been doing in secret. I may leave it the way it is now until more information comes out.

Re: Cabba and Caulifla I am not sure I understand. Cabba is as strong as U6 Saga Base Vegeta, which is their normal Base power, not SSGod level. When Caulifla goes SS1, Cabba believes that she might beat him as an SS1 (so around SS1 Vegeta's level). Her unlocking SS2 would put her at SS2 Gohan (Cell Games) power when he first unlocked that form, in my opinion. LSS Kale seemed to be weaker than SS2 Caulifla.

Re: Piccolo and Gohan I personally see Piccolo as stronger than SS2 Gohan. Gohan was shocked by his new power and Piccolo said he had been training while Gohan studied. He was also able to strangle SS2 Gohan.

Re: Ultimate Gohan I put Ultimate Gohan (Universe Survival) above Ultimate Gohan (Buu) because of how strong he was doing, but I don't personally feel that three punches is enough to satisfy classifying Gohan at SSB Goku's power. Goku also stated that "Vegeta and I can beat Frieza if he betrays us," while Gohan was in the room. Goku was under the assumption that Frieza was still at his RoF power. Gohan was right there and to not mention Gohan being able to beat Frieza, Ultimate Gohan (Universe Survival) should be below SSB Goku (RoF). This is why I put him in the low SSGod Tier.

Re: Android 17 Yeah, since Goku said he was forced to use SSBlue and their clash at the horizon looked very even, I would put him in that tier. Despite both of them holding back, it seemed to imply that they were close.

Re: SSB Kaioken x10 Goku Hmmmmm, interesting. In order for SSB Kaioken x10 Goku (U6 Saga) to be below SSB Goku (Universe Survival) he would have to have gotten >10X stronger in the F. Trunks arc. I guess I just can't see that happening. ... I don't know; I could be wrong.

Roshi -- Based on Goku's comment, it looks like he's gained a good amount of power through training. I think the scroll definitely gave him a boost. I would still place him below Tien.

Tien -- Given a bad rap as of late. I think he held back against Roshi because he didn't want to hurt him. His inclusion in the spar was just ridiculous from the start. He's so far below the other three, there really isn't much he could do.

Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale -- I think the U6 Sayians have a greater potential than the U7 Sayians. They're able to access SSJ and even SSJ2 much easier. Given they've spent the entirety of their life training to increase their base, a 50x and 100x multiplier makes them pretty powerful. I think Kale's Berserker or LSSJ form greatly outclassed Cabba in SSJ and Caulifla in SSJ2, and we only saw the tip of the iceberg. I think she's a force to be reckoned with.

Piccolo -- Based on 88 and 90, I'd place him around SSJ3 Goku level. He manhandled SSJ2 Gohan with little effort. He used the brief spar with Ultimate Gohan to teach him a lesson about letting his guard down. Despite what we saw onscreen, he spent hours training with Gohan at that level without taking a significant amount of damage requiring his sensu bean. Unfortunately, we've yet to see Piccolo in a serious fight requiring him to use his full power. I honestly think he's going to prove once and for all he's reached a new plateau in power during the tournament.

Gohan -- Although Gohan tells Goku he's at his full power when he transforms into his Ultimate form, you can clearly see him increase his power steadily throughout the fight. At the point he tells his Dad to take the fight seriously, he powers up and starts tossing Goku around. Goku obliges by transforming into a full powered SSJB, which causes Gohan to power up again and specifically state he's now at his full power. The exchange is short, but Gohan holds his own. People keep saying Goku only transformed because his son asked, but the motivation to compete with his father pushed Gohan to a new level or power.

17 -- He definitely forced Goku to transform into SSJB, but only at low to mid power. His true level of power depends on how much power he kept hidden. I have a feeling he's between Gohan and Piccolo in terms of power, but behind Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza.

SSB Kaioken x10 Goku -- I don't think Goku's 10x stronger than the U6 tournament. He's definitely stronger, and he gained full control of KK in SSJB. If everyone is correct, we should see a new transformation in the tournament, which will change the dynamic

[Birusu16]

So is there any actual implication of how Sidra's power compares to Golden Frieza and Beerus? I have not seen the episode yet.

He's far above Freeza. That's for certain. A small portion of his energy gave Freeza significant difficulty. Later he claimed that if Freeza tried something he'd just destroy him and was fully confident in that response. Beerus on the other hand casually swatted it away with his breath, but like I said, that was simply a small portion of Sidra's energy, so how he compares to Beerus is unknown.

One thing's certain, neither Freeza or Goku are anywhere close to GoD level at this point.

[TheSaiyanGod]

So is there any actual implication of how Sidra's power compares to Golden Frieza and Beerus? I have not seen the episode yet.

He's far above Freeza. That's for certain. A small portion of his energy gave Freeza significant difficulty. Later he claimed that if Freeza tried something he'd just destroy him and was fully confident in that response. Beerus on the other hand casually swatted it away with his breath, but like I said, that was simply a small portion of Sidra's energy, so how he compares to Beerus is unknown.

One thing's certain, neither Freeza or Goku are anywhere close to GoD level at this point.

It was not specified how much power the Sphere of Destruction had in the episode.
We know only that this technique should kill anyone, and that it erases the opponent of existence (just like Hakai).
And yet, Freeza was able to resist this Hakai, even with an effort.

Taking the attack directly and counting it and squeezing it is much harder than you attacking it at a distance and changing its trajectory, as Beerus did.
These are different situations.

Kaioshin Rou himself said that Sidra would not easily kill Freeza

[Birusu16]

So is there any actual implication of how Sidra's power compares to Golden Frieza and Beerus? I have not seen the episode yet.

He's far above Freeza. That's for certain. A small portion of his energy gave Freeza significant difficulty. Later he claimed that if Freeza tried something he'd just destroy him and was fully confident in that response. Beerus on the other hand casually swatted it away with his breath, but like I said, that was simply a small portion of Sidra's energy, so how he compares to Beerus is unknown.

One thing's certain, neither Freeza or Goku are anywhere close to GoD level at this point.

It was not specified how much power the Sphere of Destruction had in the episode.
We know only that this technique should kill anyone, and that it erases the opponent of existence (just like Hakai).
And yet, Freeza was able to resist this Hakai, even with an effort.

Taking the attack directly and counting it and squeezing it is much harder than you attacking it at a distance and changing its trajectory, as Beerus did.
These are different situations.

Kaioshin Rou himself said that Sidra would not easily kill Freeza

Sidra said "some" meaning it wasn't his full power. And considering Beerus easily swatted it away suggests to me that it wasn't anywhere close to his full power either as I sincerely doubt Beerus is that much stronger than Sidra. And I don't care what Rou said. He's a scheming moron who probably has no clue how strong Sidra even is. I'll take Sidra's word over his every time and he straight up said he'd destroy Freeza if he tried something despite knowing full well that Freeza was able to counter some of his own energy.

There's nothing different about the situation at all. It's the same amount of energy. Period. It requires the same amount of energy to overpower it regardless of the circumstances. Beerus could casually swat it away while Goku and Freeza couldn't, which shows that Freeza and Goku aren't anywhere near GoD level.

[LowRyder2005]

The context of the scene does imply that Sidra would have a hard time destroying or even find himself completely unable to destroy Golden Freeza. You can either take it at face value or not, but the subtext is just that.

It probably needs to be said that Sidra was advertised as being kind of a black sheep among the Hakaishin already - promoted as "almost incapable of destroying things", if I recall it correctly. It could be because of his self-contained nature, because he lacks the power, both things, etc.
If Freeza was able to give Sidra a hard time or a very hard time like implied by Rou, it also wouldn't necessarily mean they're both anywhere near the other Gods of Destruction.

Although Gohan tells Goku he's at his full power when he transforms into his Ultimate form, you can clearly see him increase his power steadily throughout the fight. At the point he tells his Dad to take the fight seriously, he powers up and starts tossing Goku around. Goku obliges by transforming into a full powered SSJB, which causes Gohan to power up again and specifically state he's now at his full power.

It's not really that "clear", though. How would Gohan become that powerful in such a short timespan, going from about Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3 Goku to Super Saiyan Blue? Why wouldn't it happen against, say, another opponent like Gotenks-Buu?
Honestly, I took the second time he shouts "my full power" more as a reminder he had been giving it his all up until that point. Something more mantra-esque in nature than a "look, he's going full power just now" from the writers. Having him say "here's my full power" in the very beginning would've made this intended scenario very confusing - not like it isn't kind of confusing already.

If we were to follow this line of thought, I think it would make more sense to argue he showed his full power for a brief moment in the beginning and then dropped down to a suppressed level. The theory about Gohan being depicted as having become just that incredibly strong in such a short time and not as, let's just say, someone who had the equivalent of Krillin's feat against the God Kamehameha still appears pretty open to question to me all the same.

[Birusu16]

Except it doesn't. Rou says he can't destroy Freeza easily while Sidra says he can. There's no hidden context that suggests Rou is right while Sidra is wrong. You either believe one or the other and based on the fact that Beerus could swat away Sidra's energy that easily, I'm more inclined to believe Sidra considering I highly doubt any GoD is that far above another, which means the energy Sidra gave the assassin was likely a very low amount. And I'm also more inclined to believe Sidra considering he knows full well what he's capable of. Nothing suggests Rou does.

[LowRyder2005]

Your critique has some merit from an in-universe standpoint, perhaps.
From a writing standpoint, yet, the scene was clearly intended to hype Freeza, while mocking Sidra's ability to destroy him. Arguing that they wrote it down while having in mind that Rou was in fact completely wrong and Sidra would have disposed of Freeza with a wave of a hand is pretty counter-intuitive to say the least.

Given the way you worded it in the other post, it seems more like the idea of Golden Freeza rivaling a possibly less-than-competent Haikaishin rubs you the wrong way for some reason.

[Birusu16]

That's not the way I see it at all. The scene was certainly meant to hype Freeza, but it was also to show that there's still a significant gap between them and the GoDs. They could have had Beerus use any method to get rid of Sidra's energy, but they had him use his breath and do it so effortlessly at that. They could have had Sidra say "I'm giving you all of my destructive energy", but rather they had him say "some". They could have had Freeza easily counter the energy, but they had him significantly struggle with "some" of Sidra's energy. Why do these things? To show that there's still a relatively large gap between these mortals and the GoDs.

Rou's comment is no different than Shin's when it came to Pui Pui and his comparison to Freeza. Like I said, Sidra knows full well how powerful he is. Where is the evidence that Rou does? So why exactly does his statement have more merit than Sidra's? The plain answer is it doesn't.

[LowRyder2005]

Well, technically - keeping this in-universe, that is - it's not like Sidra couldn't have overestimated himself or tried to reassure Rou as a knee-jerk reaction out of embarassment either.
I agree that all in all the scenes tell us very little, as usual, but I still have qualms giving credit to the idea they wrote something like that when Sidra is far, far above Freeza (the same Freeza being therefore a complete non-threat to Gods' well-beings if they ever let him stay in their universe, which was part of the gag), like previously suggested.

I also stress we're, again, talking about someone whom in the promotional material was stated of being barely fit of their role as a universal force of destruction for some reason. I mean, Freeza or Goku being able to intimidate him or even give him a run for his money wouldn't be unfathomable, given that we don't know the gap between Sidra and his ilk. Besides, Toppo was a viable candidate for the role of God of Destruction and his power rivals Goku's - this may also hint about the power requirements being lower in some universe, or under some circumstances.

[Birusu16]

That's pure speculation, though. I'm going off what we know of based purely off of the episode. Not to mention why would Sidra overestimate himself or be afraid of embarrassment? He's not an arrogant individual and he's certainly not afraid of being embarrassed considering he freely admitted that Freeza would make a much better GoD than him when Rou said it. This isn't the first time meaningless dialogue was written in Super, so I'm not so sure why it's difficult for you to believe.

Unfit because he doesn't have the mindset for it. That became more clear with the most recent episode when Rou said "he's more of a GoD than you" to which Sidra agreed. It doesn't in anyway mean he's unfit for the role in regards to power, so yes, it is a bit unfathomable for me to believe Goku or Freeza can give him a run for his money given what Beerus did to "some" of Sidra's energy that Freeza had significant trouble with.

Goku and Vegeta were potential candidates as well. That doesn't mean they were anywhere near Beerus in regards to power. You can be a potential candidate without being close to the current GoDs.

[LowRyder2005]

Um, you're speculating all the same. The episode shows Rou panicking at the thought of having Freeza roaming freely in their universe (which already casts some doubt on their ability to control the person in question), and then dowright doubting Sidra's ability to destroy Freeza. Sidra reasurres "it'll be okay" before they're cut off, but it looks like they would have kept arguing about it. You started by saying that Rou had to be full of bollocks because Sidra must be right. You don't have anything to base this off, though. The principle that the "guy can overestimate himself" is essentially the same of "Rou can be wrong", otherwise you might as well be arguing that in the series such an occurence of a person overestimating his own power would be unprecedented.

Regarding my doubts, I was simply arguing that if they meant to leave everyone the impression that Freeza was someone who couldn't really do any harm to this would have been the least effective way to do so. If you want my two cents, instead,I merely think that the back-and-forth between Sidra, Rou and Freeza was much like Hit and Goku + KK * 10 making Champa and Beerus sweat some bullets in the tournament, when a fighter was at least "approaching" someone else.

Unfit because he doesn't have the mindset for it.

That's also your interpretation of the excerpt. What's stated about Sidra is that as a God of destruction he's "almost incapable of destroying things". Since Freeza is at the very least potentially presented as a threat, it does reinforce the idea it could also have to do with sheer power, and not just Sidra's meek-ish nature.

[Birusu16]

Um, you're speculating all the same. The episode shows Rou panicking at the thought of having Freeza roaming freely in their universe (which already casts some doubt on their ability to control the person in question), and then dowright doubting Sidra's ability to destroy Freeza. Sidra reasurres "it'll be okay" before they're cut off, but it looks like they would have kept arguing about it. You started by saying that Rou had to be full of bollocks because Sidra must be right. You don't have anything to base this off, though. The principle that the guy can overestimate himself is essentially the same of Rou can be wrong, otherwise you might as well be arguing that in the series it's unprecedented.

Unfit because he doesn't have the mindset for it.

That's also your interpretation of the excerpt. What's stated about Sidra is that as a God of destruction he's "almost incapable of destroying things". Since Freeza is at the very least potentially presented as a threat, it could also have to do with his sheer power, and not just his mentality.

Except I do, which is the fact that Sidra knows full-well how powerful he is while there's no evidence Rou does. Your whole basis for your opinion of Sidra overestimating himself was because you think he'd be embarrassed to admit Freeza is stronger than him, to which I asked why would he care when he's already shown he clearly isn't afraid of being embarrassed considering he freely admitted to being a terrible GoD. So again, I ask why would he overestimate himself and lie? He's certainly not arrogant and he's certainly not afraid to be embarrassed.

It is my interpretation, but it also has more backing to it than suggesting it's his power. Rou straight up says Freeza would be a better GoD than Sidra and the latter freely admits that, which indicates his mindset isn't suited to be a GoD. There's no evidence suggesting his power isn't suited. Freeza isn't presented as a threat, not to Sidra anyway otherwise we wouldn't have gotten the comment from Sidra that we did. He's only presented as a threat to Rou.

Regarding my doubts, I was simply arguing that if they meant to leave everyone the impression that Freeza was someone who couldn't really do any harm to this would have been the least effective way to do so. If you want my two cents, instead,I merely think that the back-and-forth between Sidra, Rou and Freeza was much like Hit and Goku + KK * 10 making Champa and Beerus sweat some bullets in the tournament, when a fighter was at least "approaching" someone else.

I don't think it's the least effective way at all. They showed how Freeza would be a threat to the Gods and it wasn't through his raw power, it was through his conniving and scheming mentality, which is the exact reason for his words about him being able to manipulate the Gods due to their obsessiveness over the tournament. Rou was predominantly worried about Freeza's psychopathic mentality.

[LowRyder2005]

I didn't exactly say that. I presented some possibilities about Sidra being either wrong or acting out of something else than completely truthful statements, which in the context of a comedy scene between two people bickering - like what we've seen - is plenty possible without venturing into absurdism.

Honestly, this debate about Sidra's psychology looks pretty moot to me, if anything because it's bound to lead to more and more divergent interpretations and added justifications about how Sidra would act in this or that situation; which is again arbitrary, for the most part, regardless of who says it.
Now, taking writing intent into account, Freeza being comparable in power to Sidra is not an extreme take on the scene regardless. Most certainly it's not disproven beyond reasonable doubt by the fact Sidra hastily told Rou "no, no, it's not like that" - which still happens in the context of a serious scene turning into a gag, and which still didn't reassure Rou. Otherwise, we may as well start arguing about how Goku would have "absolutely" not gifted Bulma's picture to the Elder Kaioshin because he said he wouldn't when confronted on it. It doesn't concern knowledge of one's power, but the rationale is the same.

I don't think it's the least effective way at all. They showed how Freeza would be a threat to the Gods and it wasn't through his raw power, it was through his conniving and scheming mentality, which is the exact reason for his words about him being able to manipulate the Gods due to their obsessiveness over the tournament. Rou was predominantly worried about Freeza's psychopathic mentality.

Again, this is more of your interpretation than anything else, stemming from the fact you start from the conclusion Sidra blows Freeza out of the water.

[Birusu16]

I didn't exactly say that. I presented some possibilities about Sidra being either wrong or acting out of something else than completely truthful statements, which in the context of a comedy scene between two people bickering - like what we've seen - is plenty possible without venturing into absurdism.

And I asked you what reason does he have to overestimate himself and lie? If you can't offer me any solid basis for why Sidra may be wrong then why should I believe Freeza is comparable to him?

Honestly, this debate about Sidra's psychology looks pretty moot to me, if anything because it's bound to lead to more and more divergent interpretations and added justifications about how Sidra would act in this or that situation; which is again mostly arbitrary regardless of who says it.
Now, taking writing intent into account, Freeza being comparable in power to Sidra is not an extreme take on the scene regardless. Most certainly it's not disproven beyond reasonable doubt by the fact Sidra hastily told Rou "no, no, it's not like that" - which still happens in the context of a serious scene turning into a gag. Otherwise, let's start arguing about how Goku would have "absolutely" not have given Bulma's picture to Rou Kaioshin because he said he wouldn't when confronted on it.

Of course it's not proven beyond a reasonable doubt as you'd need Toriyama to come out and say Sidra is stronger or a reliable in-universe character to for it to meet that crtieria, but it's certainly as close to definitive as it gets for me. It's in the same ballpark as Beerus being stronger than Freeza and Goku.

Again, this is more of your interpretation than anything else, stemming from the fact you start from the conclusion Sidra blows Freeza out of the water.

No, it's not. If Freeza was presented as a threat to Sidra then we would've gotten some kind of fearful response from Sidra like we got from Rou. He was only presented as a threat to Rou. Sidra brushed any treacherous action from Freeza aside and said he'd just destroy him should he have to. There was never a concern for Sidra whatsoever regarding Freeza, so in that context, he was never a threat to Sidra. The episode straight up told us how Freeza would be a threat to the Gods and it was through him scheming, not his raw strength.

[LowRyder2005]

It's not like he needs to "lie" in the purest sense. Characters overestimate themselves all the time in Dragon Ball because they can potentially be bad judges when it comes to establish their opponent's real power.

That being said, I'm categorically not trying to convince you of anything but the fact viewers who deduced "so Freeza might be not that far off from Sidra" aren't exactly off-base, at least completely so, since the context of the scene is Freeza being a threat in Universe 11 with the God of Destruction's full knowledge. They're simply giving more weight to Rou's fearful reaction and his "like you could erase him easily" compared to Sidra's remark he could still get the job done, but it's not like they're necessarily being partial "because Sidra can't get a prediction of a fight involving himself wrong".

I mean, also, if we started to keep the nitpicking up we wouldn't know how he wanted to dispose of Freeza after Rou panicked. The exchange literally goes "like you could erase him easily", "don't worry, it'll be--...". "Easy"? "Hard but I can do it"? "Possible, but have to call twenty other Gods of Destruction"?

[Birusu16]

It's not like he needs to "lie". Characters overestimate themselves all the time in Dragon Ball because they can potentially be bad judges when it comes to establish their opponent's real power.

Pure speculation. I'm asking you to give me a solid basis to give Rou's statement more merit than Sidra's. Sidra already has more merit for me on the basis of him knowing exactly how powerful he is. Rou isn't Sidra, so unless something says otherwise, I'm not going to believe Rou is a better judge of Sidra's power than Sidra himself.

That being said, I'm categorically not trying to convince you of anything but the fact viewers who deduced "so Freeza might be comparable to Sidra" aren't exactly off-base, since the context of the scene is Freeza being a threat in Universe 11 with the God of Destruction's full knowledge. They're simply giving more weight to Rou's fearful reaction and his "like you could erase him easily" compared to Sidra's remark he could still get the job done, but it's not like they're necessarily being partial "because Sidra can't get a prediction of a fight involving himself wrong".

To me, they are off-base because everything in the episode, aside from one comment from a guy who likely doesn't even know the full extent of Sidra's power, implies Freeza isn't comparable. From Sidra only giving "some" of his energy to Freeza significantly struggling with that energy to Beerus (another GoD) effortlessly disposing of that energy.

I mean, also, if we started to keep the nitpicking up we wouldn't know how he wanted to dispose of Freeza after Rou panicked. The exchange literally goes "like you could erase him easily", "don't worry, it'll be... [*Freeza cuts the call*]". "Easy"? "Hard but I can do it"? "Possible, but have to call twenty other Gods of Destruction"?

Really?

Rou: "Like it'll be that easy"
Sidra: "It'll be" (It will be)

It was Sidra saying, yes, it will be that easy.

Doesn't matter anyway. This is just a waste of time at this point. You're gonna believe what you want to and I'm gonna believe what I want to. I'm off to bed. Feel free to have the last response.

[LowRyder2005]

Pure speculation. I'm asking you to give me a solid basis to give Rou's statement more merit than Sidra's. Sidra already has more merit for me on the basis of him knowing exactly how powerful he is. Rou isn't Sidra, so unless something says otherwise, I'm not going to believe Rou is a better judge of Sidra's power than Sidra himself.

It's not "pure speculation" any more than what you're doing here. Your reasoning is that Sidra can't get this prediction wrong while Rou may be unaware of Sidra's true power; what I'm saying is that, by applying the same in-universe rationale, we've had plenty of characters thinking they could beat an opponent when they couldn't because they underestimated whoever they were fighting against (should've probably used that instead of "overestimating themselves" to make things clearer).

Still, this has become a vacuous "that must be what they meant" debate from an off-hand remark of mine when the dissonance I was trying to speak of was completely out-of-universe in nature: to me the writers having Rou question Sidra's ability to destroy Freeza was significant, much more significant than Sidra's hasty remark of "I can still destroy him, for real". The underlying authorial intent I got was that Rou was filling the role of the straight man, while Sidra was trying to downplay the issue. It still applies after rewatching the scene a couple of times. Going back to in-universe considerations, it could be because he wanted Freeza on his team at any cost and preferred to deal with a dangerous opponent later than immediate destruction back then? This too is possible, I guess.

To me, they are off-base because everything in the episode, aside from one comment from a guy who likely doesn't even know the full extent of Sidra's power, implies Freeza isn't comparable. From Sidra only giving "some" of his energy to Freeza significantly struggling with that energy to Beerus (another GoD) effortlessly disposing of that energy.

Again, you're free to believe what you want. The two things aren't necessarily related, though: Beerus dispels Sidra's technique from the outside. At most, I think you'd have to compare Goku and Freeza surviving the sphere from the inside.

Really?

Rou: "Like it'll be that easy"
Sidra: "It'll be" (It will be)

It was Sidra saying, yes, it will be that easy.

Doesn't matter anyway. This is just a waste of time at this point. You're gonna believe what you want to and I'm gonna believe what I want to. I'm off to bed. Feel free to have the last response.

Well, it's Sidra saying "don't worry" the relevant part you'd be looking for in this scenario. "It'll be" just ends up nowhere. Again, the phrases we are looking at are literally "like [erasing him] will be that easy!", "Don't worry! It'll be--". The "--" signifies an abrupt ending, not a "will it be? yes, it will be" type of answer.

[TheSaiyanGod]

He's far above Freeza. That's for certain. A small portion of his energy gave Freeza significant difficulty. Later he claimed that if Freeza tried something he'd just destroy him and was fully confident in that response. Beerus on the other hand casually swatted it away with his breath, but like I said, that was simply a small portion of Sidra's energy, so how he compares to Beerus is unknown.

One thing's certain, neither Freeza or Goku are anywhere close to GoD level at this point.

It was not specified how much power the Sphere of Destruction had in the episode.
We know only that this technique should kill anyone, and that it erases the opponent of existence (just like Hakai).
And yet, Freeza was able to resist this Hakai, even with an effort.

Taking the attack directly and counting it and squeezing it is much harder than you attacking it at a distance and changing its trajectory, as Beerus did.
These are different situations.

Kaioshin Rou himself said that Sidra would not easily kill Freeza

Sidra said "some" meaning it wasn't his full power. And considering Beerus easily swatted it away suggests to me that it wasn't anywhere close to his full power either as I sincerely doubt Beerus is that much stronger than Sidra. And I don't care what Rou said. He's a scheming moron who probably has no clue how strong Sidra even is. I'll take Sidra's word over his every time and he straight up said he'd destroy Freeza if he tried something despite knowing full well that Freeza was able to counter some of his own energy.

There's nothing different about the situation at all. It's the same amount of energy. Period. It requires the same amount of energy to overpower it regardless of the circumstances. Beerus could casually swat it away while Goku and Freeza couldn't, which shows that Freeza and Goku aren't anywhere near GoD level.

It is much more difficult for you to take the blow directly, containing and compressing the ball until it nullifies the attack

Attacking the ball from afar and changing course (as Beerus did) is much simpler and several characters have done so even though it is weaker (as Vegeta diverted Kid Boo's Ki Blast that would destroy Earth)

Even Freeza destroyed the two Spheres easily with a laser at a distance
There is great difference in the two situations and this does not prove any superiority of Beerus.
And Sidra does not specify ANY amount of power (not in Cruchyroll's translation at least), so you can not tell.

What is the mystery of this speech? Sidra says he would destroy Freeza, and Rou said it would not be so easy. It's because?
Even Freeza being treacherous or insightful, he can not escape from a Hakaishin, but this implies that he would endure a fight, for he is at a close level (so much that he resisted a Hakai).

We already had several manga and anime lines indicating that Goku and Vegeta have a level close to the Hakaishins, what's the problem?

[DBZ Macky]

So, how much stronger is Super Saiyan Blue compared to Super Saiyan God?
Blue is definitely stronger than the latter, but I don't think the gap isn't too large given SSG Goku's performance against in the Manga. I think SSB might even be only ~10% stronger than SSG. Thoughts?

[Desassina]

So, how much stronger is Super Saiyan Blue compared to Super Saiyan God?
Blue is definitely stronger than the latter, but I don't think the gap isn't too large given SSG Goku's performance against in the Manga. I think SSB might even be only ~10% stronger than SSG. Thoughts?

Does this:

[spoiler]

The way I see it, and to address the manga and anime differences, with symbolic quantities or tiers:

Base Goku was 1 in the Boo saga.
The ritual was made and he's now 1'000 as a SSJG.
He kept that power through SSJ as if it were a normal increase over base.
Goku powers down by how many times he would have increased into SSJ from base (10 fold).
He's 100 times stronger than he was in the Boo saga with a similar transformation or state. SSJG was the trigger.
That means that his powered up forms (SSJ2 and 3) are now stronger than when he transformed into SSJG in Battle of Gods.
In the manga, it has been recovered and presented as a constant power up, beyond that of SSJ2 and 3, so their base doesn't need to change.
SSJ Blue in the manga would go from 10% to Full Power, or 10 times the latter in case SSJG was used before it, which means that SSJ2 and 3 are still below SSJG.

It's obviously speculation, but the only means to keep it leveled with the events, in case we thought that they were too inconsistent.

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... answer your question? I mean, I have posted it countless times, and I don't think that people agree with it fully to not reply.