"Toei Goku" in Super

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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RedRibbonSoldier#42
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"Toei Goku" in Super

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:57 pm

The Goku vs. Beerus fight is just getting started in Super, so it may be to early to worry about this, but doesn't it seems like Goku is behaving differently in Super than in BoG? In the movie, he was upset that he wasn't able to get this strong through his own effort, but needed his friends' help. Beerus even made note of it and said it was a prideful attitude. In super, when Beerus asks if Goku's happy, its like " Yup. This is awesome, I'm awesome, lets fight now" and he acts pretty thrilled about his new power throughout the episode. Do you thing this is a sign that we'll be seeing the less flawed "Toei Goku" in Dragonball Super, with Toriyama not around as much to make sure they keep in the "poison" he intended his characters to have?

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:59 pm

"I'm still disappointed by how they portray my Son Goku character." - Akira Toriyama 2015
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:05 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:"I'm still disappointed how they portray my Son Goku character." - Akira Toriyama 2015
Source?
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:08 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Source?
I was joking man. :lol:
It was a throw back to something that Toriyama said back then:
Toriyama: There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows
Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Chuquita » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:09 pm

Yesterday's episode was a Koyama one; I can see his episodes being more Toei!Gokû as his father was the Koyama who wrote the first 13 Z movies. Next week's writer is King Ryuu, so it just might be each writer does something a little different.

*Goes to make a list of who wrote what episode so far to see how that bears on how Gokû's been acting in Super episode to episode. Will return.*

EDIT: I'm back. Here's the list.

Episode # : Person responsible for Scenario
1 - Yoshifumi Fukushima
2 - King Ryuu
3 - Yoshitaka Toshio
4 - Makoto Koyama
5 - Yoshifumi Fukushima
6 - King Ryuu
7 - Yoshitaka Toshio
8 - Yoshitaka Toshio
9 - Yoshitaka Toshio
10 - Makoto Koyama
11 - King Ryu
12 - King Ryu
13 - King Ryu
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:27 pm

I don't know anything about these people. :P
Chuquita wrote:Yesterday's episode was a Koyama one; I can see his episodes being more Toei!Gokû as his father was the Koyama who wrote the first 13 Z movies.
How cool must to be take over your father job and write for the same series that he did, back then?!
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Doctor. » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:31 pm

Chuquita wrote:-snip-
I really liked how #2 and #6 ended up, they're my favorite episodes of the series, so hopefully King Ryuu will do a good job with the upcoming episodes too.

I definitely want to see Goku displeased with SSG next episode, I'll be incredibly disappointed if that doesn't happen. So far, I've been liking Super more than BoG, but if they cut that out, I'll change my mind immediately.

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:12 pm

Toei Goku from the original movies was far more "heroic" and serious. Super's Goku is more like Toei trying to replicate the same Goku from the newer movies or how they feel Toriyama would handle the character, minus any showcases of his flaws and plus an overemphasis of his loooove of battle and dimwitted nature.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:20 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:Toei Goku from the original movies was far more "heroic" and serious. Super's Goku is more like Toei trying to replicate the same Goku from the newer movies or how they feel Toriyama would handle the character, minus any showcases of his flaws and plus an overemphasis of his loooove of battle and dimwitted nature.
Definitely this. That pay back scene was 100% Toriyama.
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:39 pm

Yet another thing Super screwed up from BoG, why does this re-telling exist again?
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:21 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Yet another thing Super screwed up from BoG, why does this re-telling exist again?
To provide more coherence in the story when they lead up to the Universe 6 arc, which is when Dragon Ball Super's plot really starts to begin, in all honesty. I mean, not every Dragon Ball fan will have watched BOG and/or ROF, so re-telling the movies provides the luxury for those who didn't find the time to watch the movie. I mean, if Super started with the Universe 6 arc, there would be quite a few fans who feel confused about what the plot would be.

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: I mean, if Super started with the Universe 6 arc, there would be quite a few fans who feel confused about what the plot would be.
If Super started after EOZ, everyone would understand whats going on though.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:28 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Yet another thing Super screwed up from BoG, why does this re-telling exist again?
Super is a sequel to DBZ, not the manga. Unlike BoG.

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Absolute Ice » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:44 pm

Technically, Dragon Ball Super is a follow-up to Buu saga. Whether it is for the manga version or for the anime one... Maybe it's up to one's decision. (?)
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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by NeoKING » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:38 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Yet another thing Super screwed up from BoG, why does this re-telling exist again?
To give Toei a reason to create their own adaption of Toriyama's movies. A reverse situation of how Toei would create movies based on Toriyama's manga. Remember that time Goku and Piccolo teamed up to fight Raditz, then Toei went and made a 30 minute movie on them teaming up to fight Garlic Jr.?

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:48 pm

He's a total dick head in Super.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Doctor. » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:49 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:He's a total dick head in Super.
Why? What has he done so far that makes him a "dick head"?

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:59 pm

I think the only reason why Goku is happy right now is because it hasn't sunk in yet. He's still adjusting to the powers of being a SSJG and the power rush is a joyride he's enjoying to the fullest ATM. I think once he starts getting accustomed to it, he'll have time to reflect on it, kinda like what we got in BOG. He didn't start off that fight all down in the dumps and we learned his inner thoughts once the fighting came to a halt. I believe something similar will happen, as soon as the next episode, in fact. I haven't seen the NEP to make that guess, though. It's just a hunch.

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:24 pm

Doctor. wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:He's a total dick head in Super.
Why? What has he done so far that makes him a "dick head"?
> Makes Goten do his work.
> Accepts Mr. Satan's money bribe to escape responsibility.
> Doesn't invite Goten to train with him before leaving his family.
> Doesn't even go to Bulma's party.
> Extremely inconsiderate towards King Kai.
> Throws a jab at Vegeta and his unborn granddaughter before the SSJG ritual.
> Doesn't consider everyone's safety when he fights Beerus, as noted by Piccolo.
> Now holds grudges towards people (Beerus karate chop).
> More smug than ever before, and doesn't even seem to have that sense of pride he exhibited in BoG.

Honestly, I don't like him. I find Goku annoying in Super. I'll gladly take the "Superman" Goku from the DBZ anime, GT, and movies.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: "Toei Goku" in Super

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:28 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
> Makes Goten do his work.
> Accepts Mr. Satan's money bribe to escape responsibility.
> Doesn't invite Goten to train with him before leaving his family.
> Doesn't even go to Bulma's party.
> Extremely inconsiderate towards King Kai.
> Throws a jab at Vegeta and his unborn granddaughter before the SSJG ritual.
> Doesn't consider everyone's safety when he fights Beerus, as noted by Piccolo.
> Now holds grudges towards people (Beerus karate chop).
> More smug than ever before, and doesn't even seem to have that sense of pride he exhibited in BoG.
Hmm, seems like the same Goku to me.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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