Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[SaiyanGod117]

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.

Seriously? There were some pretty damn ugly episodes of Z.

Nothing as ugly as episode 5.

[dhaval_dongre]

I know that many people don't enjoy Tate's work, and its fine because his style is very different to how Dragon Ball usually looks like. But even if its not to your liking it doesn't mean its outright bad. Part of episode 5 was bad, agreed. But in the case of 86 it was his stylistic choice. Its important to note that this style appears only in Tate's episodes and even if you don't like you will only have to watch once in a while. Nothing wrong with experiencing something stylistically different once in a while.

One of the reasons I enjoyed 86 was that it was so different than the usual Yamamuro style, or the style that Yamamuro always expects his animators to follow, and if they don't, then he totally overcorrects their work. This approach has alienated some important names from the franchise. But especially since the FT arc we have seen animators, at the least the important ones take liberties with their work. That's why I really appreciate Tsuji and Ide, because they are giving animators their space which was missing under Yamamuro's. I really hope this allows some prominent names to return to this series. And I really have no idea what's up with Yamamuro. Its as if he has gone AWOL from the series, though he still does the designs and many of the animators with the exception of some try to stick to it strictly. I am glad we saw the series going in a positive direction in 86, and that's why I enjoy Tate's work.

[Metalwario64]

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.

Seriously? There were some pretty damn ugly episodes of Z.

Nothing as ugly as episode 5.

Episode 5 was hardly the worst animation Super had seen. There was far worse throughout the RoF arc.

Episode 5 looked rough, and that was honestly the only real problem it had. That was even pretty much fixed on home releases, and it's now a decent looking episode.

[Psykomatik]

I believe the ToP will begin at 92.
Toshio got 2 (86-87), Fukushima got 2 (88-89) and the tournament will probably begin with Atsuhiro Tomioka. King Ryu will probably write 90 and 91, and then 92 will see the beginning of ToP. Thoughts?

[SaiyanGod117]

Seriously? There were some pretty damn ugly episodes of Z.

Nothing as ugly as episode 5.

Episode 5 was hardly the worst animation Super had seen. There was far worse throughout the RoF arc.

Episode 5 looked rough, and that was honestly the only real problem it had. That was even pretty much fixed on home releases, and it's now a decent looking episode.

No, it definitely was especially the SSJ1 and SSJ2 Goku vs Beerus part. That episode is was far worse than just rough work, the improvements it got on the blu-ray were an improvement. But being an improvement over what came before wouldn't be that hard in the first place.

[JazzMazz]

Can I ask you if you really enjoyed the Studio Cockpit episodes, I am aware that it's an overused argument but I feel it still holds water here. Studio Cockpit is one of the most well recieved studios and were entrusted important episodes even though their character designs looked absolutely nothing like Toriyama's.

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.
Tate was also good boy before.

As for Studios, my favourite was Studio Junio. Honestly It was the only studio I could tell apart because how the quality would skyrocket in their episodes.
Minoru Maeda was the Boss and Masaki Satō still puts everyone to shame, judging by the drawings he shares on his twitter.

I didn't have any problems with Studio Cockpit, because it still felt I was watching Dragon Ball. That's my problem with Tate's rough style. It doesn't feel like how Dragon Ball should look to me and it's a style that bothers since I was a kid like I said before.

"Animators aren't paid to mimic Toriyama - the show has its own character designs as a guide - they're not expected to be followed to a T. Animation is a creative medium and each supervisor puts their own mark on the series. Supervisors are given certain episodes based on what the director(s) think they can bring to the table."

Each animator was his own style of course as we can see here, but the show overall still should look closely to what the original author envisioned.
Go overboard like Tate is going often in DBS is already crossing the line.

Also, the highlights on the current designs are only a one of the their many problems.

Heres a list vaguely outlining all the problems with the chacter models, not using my wording but I think it gets the job done:
"The noses, instead of a more natural-looking curve (like they used to have) are now a nasty straight line.

The Shading on the faces curves backwards, creating a very puffy cheek, as Opposed to the lines which chiseled the character's faces.

For some strange reason eyes are moved really far over pushing them out toward the sides

Important detail has been lost on the furrow of the brow inbeterrn the eyes.

From the Front view of the characters, the nose looks like a random hole in the face instead of an actual nose. This is because the shadow has no referenc near it so it, instead looks to be caving in. If there was a line placed on the side, it would look like a nose.

The eyebrows have lost a very important arch to them, making faces look flat

Jaw lines have been squished up making the characters loo unnaturally chibi

That fucking highlight makes everybody look like a plastic toy, skin does NOT shine like that, instead of using 3 tones (Normal, shading, Really deep shading) there is a (Highlight, Normal tone, and Shade) it looks gross."
Again, not my wording.

Oh, this was really technical! I'm still new to this animation stuff.
I talked about the highlights because it's the only thing that bothers me in Yamamuro's designs. I don't have enough knowledge to go in detail like that.

I feel like what your saying still relies on personal taste.

Calling looser more abstract styles rough, isn't particularly accurate, when people typically refer to something as rough, it usually means that it looks visibly unfinished and incomplete. Thats not whats going on most of the time with Tate on Super, episode of Chopper and movies like OP 6 , though a few examples of rough Tate episodes would be #5, #65 and #72.

Lets make a comparison that been done before between Tate and Shida. Both of which stray greatly from the character designs in ways that don't at all mimic Toriyama's style. However, despite this they both go in completely opposing directions, with Shida adding loads of Detail to his drawings, while Tate breaks down the character designs to their most basic components. I'm going to assume that you vastly prefer Shida's style for it's excessive detail, even though it's completely unToriyama like and looks nothing like the character sheets. I know people that would prefer Tate's animation for doing an effective job of utlising squash and stretch over Shida's use of realistic proportions. Thats where personal preference comes into play.

When measuring the success of an animator, one must try seeing what they are going for and how well they executed it from that persective. I do agree that there is definitely a point where it's not Dragonball, but I don't think Tate crosses that line most of the time and I think most of his work definitely has a solid execution. I can definitely see why you would find his work jarring.

In the end personal tastes plays a major role in which animators you will or won't enjoy and thats really what a lot of stuff does come down to.

Also, I don't think the list criticims I posted above above about the current character designs are too hard to rap your head around, though I do think I should have added a visual to better illustrate it.

Nothing as ugly as episode 5.

Episode 24 was far worse, I would even say that #33 was just as bad.

[ArchedThunder]

I believe the ToP will begin at 92.
Toshio got 2 (86-87), Fukushima got 2 (88-89) and the tournament will probably begin with Atsuhiro Tomioka. King Ryu will probably write 90 and 91, and then 92 will see the beginning of ToP. Thoughts?

I think 92 will be an episode similar to 32, everyone gets together, goes to the arena and then things are set up. Maybe the action will start at the end of the episode like 78, but I get the feeling it will just end with everyone in the arena.

EDIT: So according to an interview, new series producer Hiroyuki Sakurada was the one to take Toriyama's outline for this arc and expand it for Toei's purposes. According to Jacob Hiroyuki Sakurada helped One Piece out of a time where it had horrible scheduling, so I guess this lends credence that he was brought on to this show to do the same. It's really strange to me that a producer is the one expanding the outline, not a planner. He was a planner when he worked on One Piece, so I wonder why he's a producer here but yet still working so closely on the planning of the show. Nonetheless, it's exciting news to know that he's working so directly on the show.

[emperior]

I believe the ToP will begin at 92.
Toshio got 2 (86-87), Fukushima got 2 (88-89) and the tournament will probably begin with Atsuhiro Tomioka. King Ryu will probably write 90 and 91, and then 92 will see the beginning of ToP. Thoughts?

I think 92 will be an episode similar to 32, everyone gets together, goes to the arena and then things are set up. Maybe the action will start at the end of the episode like 78, but I get the feeling it will just end with everyone in the arena.

EDIT: So according to an interview, new series producer Hiroyuki Sakurada was the one to take Toriyama's outline for this arc and expand it for Toei's purposes. According to Jacob Hiroyuki Sakurada helped One Piece out of a time where it had horrible scheduling, so I guess this lends credence that he was brought on to this show to do the same. It's really strange to me that a producer is the one expanding the outline, not a planner. He was a planner when he worked on One Piece, so I wonder why he's a producer here but yet still working so closely on the planning of the show. Nonetheless, it's exciting news to know that he's working so directly on the show.

Is this Sakurada good?

[ArchedThunder]

Is this Sakurada good?

I don't really know anything about him other than Jacob saying that he helped One Piece out of a bad time with its schedule.

[emperior]

Is this Sakurada good?

I don't really know anything about him other than Jacob saying that he helped One Piece out of a bad time with its schedule.

That's good then. It might have been his idea to expand the plot by adding many recruitment episodes, so that the staff can start working on the tournament episodes to make them as good as possible. Let's hope this is the case! They already took 10+ weeks of time to make the schedule better while they gave us the post-FT arc fillers, so it really seems like they are trying their best to fix this show's problems. It feels like Super is already in a much better state then before, judging the 9 episodes we got since the beginning of the new arc, so I'm really optimist about the future of this show right now.

[FortuneSSJ]

Is this Sakurada good?

I don't really know anything about him other than Jacob saying that he helped One Piece out of a bad time with its schedule.

We've been hearing that since his name popped up, but when did One Piece have a bad schedule?

I believe maybe around during Sabaody Archipelago/Amazon Lily arcs could be a possibility or after the timeskip, but I need confirmation.

[ArchedThunder]

We've been hearing that since his name popped up, but when did One Piece have a bad schedule?

I believe maybe around during Sabaody Archipelago/Amazon Lily arcs could be a possibility or after the timeskip, but I need confirmation.

All I know is that he became a planner for One Piece at episode 531.
I'm not too knowledgeable on One Piece, I'm working my way through it for the first time and I'm still in the double digits.

[JulieYBM]

Is this Sakurada good?

I don't really know anything about him other than Jacob saying that he helped One Piece out of a bad time with its schedule.

We've been hearing that since his name popped up, but when did One Piece have a bad schedule?

I believe maybe around during Sabaody Archipelago/Amazon Lily arcs could be a possibility or after the timeskip, but I need confirmation.

Things began to fall apart in the middle of Impel Down and then really hit free fall during the Marineford arc. This was coming off of several arcs where good animators were regularly involved with the fight scenes.

Sakurada then came in an took over as producer and started rebuilding the series so that it would at least have important episodes that had good animators.

[ArchedThunder]

Things began to fall apart in the middle of Impel Down and then really hit free fall during the Marineford arc. This was coming off of several arcs where good animators were regularly involved with the fight scenes.

Sakurada then came in an took over as producer and started rebuilding the series so that it would at least have important episodes that had good animators.

How long did it take for him to get things back to normal?

[Ajay]

One Piece's schedule wasn't ever really like Super's is, so careful about conflating the two. It was a temporary blip for the series, rather than a core issue.

Anyway, JulieYBM, I don't think you're saying is quite right - or at least, you have the time frame wrong. Impel Down and Marineford were fine, if not better than anything that had come before. There were episodes upon episodes, consecutive ones at that, that were packed full of talented animators delivering impressive action scenes.

The schedule and lack of staff all happened during the Fishman Island arc. This was at a time where Film Z, Episode of Luffy, Episode of Nami, and the Romance Dawn opening were all being made within this one year, and all targeting similar release dates.

Essentially, they bit off more than they could chew, and Hiroaki Shibata, the producer at the time, allocated all the talented staff to these major productions. As a result, the TV series' schedule was affected. Everyone's hands were tied up elsewhere, leaving little time to focus on the show.

Hiroyuki Sakurada joined at #531, around a month after this craziness had wrapped up, and helped put things back together.

[FortuneSSJ]

Those are the answers I was looking for. Thanks guys.

The schedule and lack of staff all happened during the Fishman Island arc. This was at a time where Film Z, Episode of Luffy, Episode of Nami, and the Romance Dawn opening were all being made within this one year, and all targeting similar release dates.

So this is it?! They had bigger productions happening for One Piece franchise at the same time. It was worthy then. Completely different from what happened in DBS.

[jeffbr92]

Nothing as ugly as episode 5.

I think episode 26 takes this title, Goku vs. Freeza in the RoF was the ugliest thing I saw in this franchise Probably surpassing LSSJ3 Broly lol

[Sodhi]

Hiroyuki Sakurada seems to be pretty involved with this arc. I think he was probably working ahead of time to plan or organize things for this arc.

[Sodhi]

DBS #88 Image

Staff for the episode is supposed to be as follows:
Script: Fukushima Yukinori
Director/Storyboard: Sato Masanori
Animation Supervisor: Hiroyuki Itai

[Gashif Aldi]

I think this what a poster and Blu-Rays cover should look like... This is more Shimanuki and more appealing
I wish the design would be closer to this. This is so good though!
https://twitter.com/DragonBallRedux/sta ... 6975308803