Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[KameNinja45]

I still enjoyed the episode but I'm not going to forget about its faults.

How is reusing animation a "fault" exactly? It's not like Toei is trying to hide the fact that they've been reusing animation; they're pretty obvious at pointing it out. Is it a short-cut to pump out episodes on time? Yep. Is it a sign of a struggling animation studio? Yep. Is it a fault though? The fault may be in Toeis's failure to properly manage its workload so they don't have to resort to previously used animation, but the fault is not on the actual act of using it. It's not even bad animation, everything that people complain about being reused in that episode looks GOOD.

So I don't understand why people hate it so much and why they think it was such a taboo. Or would you rather have another SSJ3 vs Beerus episode? Hey, at least it's not reused animation!

How is reused animation not a fault? It stops many from being immersed in the story, and whether they try to hide it or not is irrelevant. Saying that reusing animation is not a fault in itself but rather the result of a fault is pretty much the same thing, it's affects the viewers experience either way. Even if it looks good, I couldn't even pay attention when animation was being reused because it was just so much.

Yes, it's better than bad animation, but getting shot in the gut is better than dying, doesn't make getting shot in the gut any better.

[cuartas]

So I don't understand why people hate it so much and why they think it was such a taboo.

For me, like I mentioned in my video, it's absolutely impossible for me to immerse myself in the episode or feel any excitement when all I'm filled with is this feeling of, "Yeah, I've seen this all before".

Me too, there's a point where it gets tiring and unacceptable, watching a dejavu of transformations is ok, but actual action? and supposedly the most important of all the entire dragon ball series?
Just compare it with kefla vs UI goku, It was in an episode that no one had any high expectations, because, well, it wasn't Jiren, not too much time passed since the special so it was highly unlikely to retrieve all the talent too soon, etc, but it turned out to be an amazing manabe episode, giving all the respect and epicness to UI goku, only repeating 1 single bit of animation (goku punching kefla at super speed by tate, present in ep 110).

Unlike that episode, this last one had more obligations to deliver something amazing but it wasn't better by any chance, this is where I wonder where's the common sense

[Asura]

Yeah I don’t understand how anyone can defend this at this point in the series. The problem isn’t reused animation, it’s how that animation is reused and the fact that it’s this prevalent at what is supposed to be the best, most premiere hyped up fight of the series.

This is the finale, and what’s the point of watching something I’ve already seen before in terms of the action?

[Pannaliciour]

Am I right that that the guy he animated epsiode 5 was also animating in episode 129? If thats the case he made major improvements.

[JazzMazz]

Am I right that that the guy he animated epsiode 5 was also animating in episode 129? If thats the case he made major improvements.

Um no.

The "episode 5 guys" is Naoki Tate, and he was always fantastic, however, circumstances and time restraints really hurt a lot of his work on the early parts of Super.

In this tournament though, his definitely been one of if not the strongest action animator of the arc, with his work on 86, 103, 110 and 118 being particularly notable.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yeah I don’t understand how anyone can defend this at this point in the series. The problem isn’t reused animation, it’s how that animation is reused and the fact that it’s this prevalent at what is supposed to be the best, most premiere hyped up fight of the series.

This is the finale, and what’s the point of watching something I’ve already seen before in terms of the action?

It is not the finale that will be #131. Omen vs Jiren was not the main event it is UI vs Jiren the Omen vs Jiren is more time wasting until we get to the main event so why waste resources on it? The episode delivered on what it was supposed to, setting up UI vs Jiren fight in an epic way.

If #130/1 are amazing no-one is gonna be here complaining about the re-used animation, are they? Like the special no-one then was complaining about re-used animation that plagued the tournament prior.

[cuartas]

It is not the finale that will be #131. Omen vs Jiren was not the main event it is UI vs Jiren the Omen vs Jiren is more time wasting until we get to the main event so why waste resources on it? The episode delivered on what it was supposed to, setting up UI vs Jiren fight in an epic way.

If #130/1 are amazing no-one is gonna be here complaining about the re-used animation, are they? Like the special no-one then was complaining about re-used animation that plagued the tournament prior.

I can't believe you're bringing up an argument like this.
Gohan vs Lavenda was a more complex and better animated episode (and no bank animation) than this one.
It's gohan and lavenda..................... lavenda the 2nd strongest warrior of the weakest universe.... a gohan that didn't even recovered his mystic form at that point..... following your argument that was a complete waste of time, even more than UI omen goku vs Jiren, right? so why was it better animated? this is where your argument fails.

Please... this is not the time to save resources

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It is not the finale that will be #131. Omen vs Jiren was not the main event it is UI vs Jiren the Omen vs Jiren is more time wasting until we get to the main event so why waste resources on it? The episode delivered on what it was supposed to, setting up UI vs Jiren fight in an epic way.

If #130/1 are amazing no-one is gonna be here complaining about the re-used animation, are they? Like the special no-one then was complaining about re-used animation that plagued the tournament prior.

I can't believe you're bringing up an argument like this.
Gohan vs Lavenda was a more complex and better animated episode (and no bank animation) than this one.
It's gohan and lavenda..................... lavenda the 2nd strongest warrior of the weakest universe.... a gohan that didn't even recovered his mystic form at that point..... following your argument that was a complete waste of time, even more than UI omen goku vs Jiren, right? so why was it better animated? this is where your argument fails.

Please... this is not the time to save resources

We've already seen Omen Goku vs Jiren, and narratively it was just Goku struggling, DBS is struggling that has been apparent these last few months so why on earth would they devote resources to the prelude fight and not the main one in the last 2 episodes? So you'd rather they not pool resources into the last 2 episodes and not use bank in #129 so we can have 3 okay episodes instead of 2 potentially great episodes?

Let's wait until #130/1 and then let's see how much of a tragedy #129 is in hindsight.

[Chuquita]

Animedia and Animage covers are out; the final staff and episode summary spoilers are only a matter of time.

[Asura]

Yeah I don’t understand how anyone can defend this at this point in the series. The problem isn’t reused animation, it’s how that animation is reused and the fact that it’s this prevalent at what is supposed to be the best, most premiere hyped up fight of the series.

This is the finale, and what’s the point of watching something I’ve already seen before in terms of the action?

It is not the finale that will be #131. Omen vs Jiren was not the main event it is UI vs Jiren the Omen vs Jiren is more time wasting until we get to the main event so why waste resources on it? The episode delivered on what it was supposed to, setting up UI vs Jiren fight in an epic way.

If #130/1 are amazing no-one is gonna be here complaining about the re-used animation, are they? Like the special no-one then was complaining about re-used animation that plagued the tournament prior.

That’s a pretty ridiculous argument. This is the finale of the show. It’s the last fight, the last three episodes. Calling the fight a “waste of time” doesn’t mean that these episodes should be a waste of time too. 130 and 131 won’t somehow make 129 look better if they look amazing. In fact, it would just make it look even worse than it does now.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Yeah I don’t understand how anyone can defend this at this point in the series. The problem isn’t reused animation, it’s how that animation is reused and the fact that it’s this prevalent at what is supposed to be the best, most premiere hyped up fight of the series.

This is the finale, and what’s the point of watching something I’ve already seen before in terms of the action?

It is not the finale that will be #131. Omen vs Jiren was not the main event it is UI vs Jiren the Omen vs Jiren is more time wasting until we get to the main event so why waste resources on it? The episode delivered on what it was supposed to, setting up UI vs Jiren fight in an epic way.

If #130/1 are amazing no-one is gonna be here complaining about the re-used animation, are they? Like the special no-one then was complaining about re-used animation that plagued the tournament prior.

That’s a pretty ridiculous argument. This is the finale of the show. It’s the last fight, the last three episodes. Calling the fight a “waste of time” doesn’t mean that these episodes should be a waste of time too. 130 and 131 won’t somehow make 129 look better if they look amazing. In fact, it would just make it look even worse than it does now.

No, his argument is a great one, and very sound

Its basically, "let's wait until episode 130/131 airs to provide CONTEXT"

If they put all their resources into making episode 130 and 131 as best as humanly possible, then that provides context for why episode 129 had some re-used animation

Blame it on terrible scheduling if anything

But then you can better understand the situations and hopefully then start to appreciate just how great they still managed to make episode 129 considering everything else etc.

Provide context. Appreciate 129 for what it was and still managed to accomplish etc

His argument being that 129 was the set up.

I completely agree. It did it's job. Now the hype is all around MUI Goku vs Jiren finale.

Let's not pretend like episode 129 was some abomination that failed to do what it intended, in setting up the hype for MUI Goku vs Jiren. It delivered in spades

Re-used animation is a flaw, that did not come close to outweighing the many many positives and epic highlights of 129 for me.

Let's not let cynicism culture get in the way of appreciating something that was still pretty awesome and had many highlights

The episode was fantastic. One of my all time favorites in all of Dragon Ball without question. But since this is an animation thread, yeah the recycled animition was a flaw, but the episode was more then that. Why can't we highlight the new animations that were great? The focus instead seems to only be "recycled/terrible"

The new animation that was there was fantastic and if that's a preview of more things to come in 130, why not actually be positive

[BlueBasilisk]

Animedia and Animage covers are out; the final staff and episode summary spoilers are only a matter of time.

I'm really nervous to see what these final two episodes have in store for us. We know some of the big staff for 131 already thanks to Ajay, and hopefully it's some good content to take full advantage of Takahashi.

[Pannaliciour]

So I don't understand why people hate it so much and why they think it was such a taboo.

For me, like I mentioned in my video, it's absolutely impossible for me to immerse myself in the episode or feel any excitement when all I'm filled with is this feeling of, "Yeah, I've seen this all before".

So you also don't watch the next episode previews?

[Asura]

It is not the finale that will be #131. Omen vs Jiren was not the main event it is UI vs Jiren the Omen vs Jiren is more time wasting until we get to the main event so why waste resources on it? The episode delivered on what it was supposed to, setting up UI vs Jiren fight in an epic way.

If #130/1 are amazing no-one is gonna be here complaining about the re-used animation, are they? Like the special no-one then was complaining about re-used animation that plagued the tournament prior.

That’s a pretty ridiculous argument. This is the finale of the show. It’s the last fight, the last three episodes. Calling the fight a “waste of time” doesn’t mean that these episodes should be a waste of time too. 130 and 131 won’t somehow make 129 look better if they look amazing. In fact, it would just make it look even worse than it does now.

No, his argument is a great one, and very sound

Its basically, "let's wait until episode 130/131 airs to provide CONTEXT"

If they put all their resources into making episode 130 and 131 as best as humanly possible, then that provides context for why episode 129 had some re-used animation

Blame it on terrible scheduling if anything

But then you can better understand the situations and hopefully then starr to appreciate just how great they still managed to make episode 129 considering everything else etc.

Provide context. Appreciate 129 for what it was and still managed to accomplish etc

His argument being that 129 was the set up.

I completely agree. It did it's job. Now the hype is all around MUI Goku vs Jiren finale.

Let's not pretend like episode 129 was some abomination that failed to do what it intended, in setting up the hype for MUI Goku vs Jiren. It delivered in spades

Re-used animation is a flaw, that did not outweigh the many many positives and epic highlights of 129, to me.

Let's not let cynicism culture get in the way of appreciating something that was still pretty awesome and had many highlights

The episode was fantastic. But since this is an animation thread, yeah the recycled animition was a flaw, but the episode was more then that. And why can't we also highlight the new animations that were great? The focus instead seems to only be "recycled/terrible episode"

The new animation that was there was fantastic and if that's a preview of more things to come in 130, why not actually be positive?

Again, this is the finale of the show. You should not be having to "sacrifice" episodes so that future ones can be better. UI Goku vs Jiren shouldn't be pushed aside like "nah bro it's cool his hair hasn't turned white yet so it's ok to just have LITERALLY half the fight be re-used shit everyone's seen before". It doesn't matter what you blame it on, it came out looking like it did anyway. There was a lot of good stuff but none of the new animation really even came close to what we saw in 110 aside from the special effects and the last few minutes.

If this is a preview of what's to come in 130, I am incredibly worried about this show's finale (hell, I already am) and the negatives would far, far outweigh the positives. We already saw a re-used shot from Goku vs Kefla in the 130 preview so that really does not give me much hope right now, but I am hoping I'll be wrong. People let Super get away with too much shit, I swear. This is simply not acceptable for the finale of any show to be re-using this much animation, and the hoops people are trying to jump through ("129 isn't the finale, 131 is!" "We already saw UI Goku vs Jiren back in 110 we didn't need to see it again.", etc.) to convince others that this is perfectly fine. No, it's not perfectly fine.

This finale needs to be on the same level that 110 was, anything less and it's failed to deliver.

So I don't understand why people hate it so much and why they think it was such a taboo.

For me, like I mentioned in my video, it's absolutely impossible for me to immerse myself in the episode or feel any excitement when all I'm filled with is this feeling of, "Yeah, I've seen this all before".

So you also don't watch the next episode previews?

What's the NEP have to do with not wanting to see so much reused animation? Watching out of context clips before an episode airs isn't at all similar to watching reused animation from other episodes you've already seen.

[Pannaliciour]

Your comment or did you forget it already? Yeah I have seen this before?

Its reused, is not good, stop crying and enjoy the free show.

But honestly I can remember the fight against Freeza back in the Z days. I swear I saw the same high speed battle over and over again. Trying to hit each other over and over again.

Or the fight against Cell. (That fight was the best) BUTT every 10 sec either Hercule or the Z warriors where talking. So the best moments of Z where the Youtube versions where they cut those out. I swear if you put the best moments in Super in one video it will outclass Z.

[Asura]

Wasn't my comment, but like I said comparing out of context shots (30 seconds worth) from the NEP to recycled fighting animation that lasts for over 2 minutes isn't at all the same, and isn't what Ajay was talking about.

[Pannaliciour]

Wasn't my comment, but like I said comparing out of context shots (30 seconds worth) from the NEP to recycled fighting animation that lasts for over 2 minutes isn't at all the same, and isn't what Ajay was talking about.

So if it isn't your comment why are you talking back to me?

[majinwarman]

How is reusing animation a "fault" exactly? It's not like Toei is trying to hide the fact that they've been reusing animation; they're pretty obvious at pointing it out. Is it a short-cut to pump out episodes on time? Yep. Is it a sign of a struggling animation studio? Yep. Is it a fault though? The fault may be in Toeis's failure to properly manage its workload so they don't have to resort to previously used animation, but the fault is not on the actual act of using it. It's not even bad animation, everything that people complain about being reused in that episode looks GOOD.

So I don't understand why people hate it so much and why they think it was such a taboo. Or would you rather have another SSJ3 vs Beerus episode? Hey, at least it's not reused animation!

How is reused animation not a fault? It stops many from being immersed in the story, and whether they try to hide it or not is irrelevant. Saying that reusing animation is not a fault in itself but rather the result of a fault is pretty much the same thing, it's affects the viewers experience either way. Even if it looks good, I couldn't even pay attention when animation was being reused because it was just so much.

Yes, it's better than bad animation, but getting shot in the gut is better than dying, doesn't make getting shot in the gut any better.

I understand why they reuse scenes but I still makes me want them to just animate new scenes. But, I still enjoyed the episode.

[Chuquita]

Animedia and Animage covers are out; the final staff and episode summary spoilers are only a matter of time.

I'm really nervous to see what these final two episodes have in store for us. We know some of the big staff for 131 already thanks to Ajay, and hopefully it's some good content to take full advantage of Takahashi.

I'm worried about Yamamuro and Takahashi being on the same episode; while I do like what Yamamuro did to Toriyama's Complete UI design I don't want Yamamuro touching Takahashi's art style especially on what may be the last time we see Takahashi for a long while.

I want some cool unfiltered Takahashi Complete UI Goku.


For those looking for the magazines, Animedia's next cover has Attack on Titan while Animage has an Easter bunny themed Pop Team Epic.

[Asura]

Wasn't my comment, but like I said comparing out of context shots (30 seconds worth) from the NEP to recycled fighting animation that lasts for over 2 minutes isn't at all the same, and isn't what Ajay was talking about.

So if it isn't your comment why are you talking back to me?

Because this is a forum discussion? My answer to you wasn't wrong, I assumed you knew about Ajay's YouTube channel and his expert knowledge on animation which would have lead to the answer that yes, he does watch the NEPs.

stop crying and enjoy the free show.

I was just talking about all the hoops people jump through to try and rationalize half of the fighting being reused, but wow, pointing out that it's a "free show" (I pay money to streaming websites to watch it so no, it's not really a free show) and thus we can't complain is probably the worst excuse I've heard yet.