Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
FartiliciousManChild
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:52 pm
Location: The Depths of Meme-Hell

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by FartiliciousManChild » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:12 pm

emperior wrote:
FartiliciousManChild wrote:
cuartas wrote: I can't even remotely consider another episode 5 will come again, even more, I think the next arc can follow the tendency and be an improvement vs the previous arc
Heck, if this trend of animation/art improvement persists we might even come to see a time where 3 levels of shading (might be called 2 layers of shading, idk exactly) becomes the norm!
What's that?
Better shading quality. More layers of shading.

From this (one layer of shading):
[spoiler]ImageImageImage[/spoiler]

To this (multiple shading layers/2 layers of shading):
[spoiler]ImageImageImageImage[/spoiler]
How i got into this shit:

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6195
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Ajay » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:45 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The random bluey blob between Goku and Jiren reads A44. What the heck is that about? A production note accidentally left there or something? Very odd.
The A refers to the layer of the animation, while the number refers to the frame number within the sequence. So in this case, it's the 44th frame on layer 1.

Animators write them on their genga so that everything's kept in order. They're not meant to be kept once they're scanned in, but I guess this just slipped through.

The CG effect appears to be applied to everything on Goku's layer within the rotation, so it ended up making the numbers glow, too.

Hopefully it's removed on the Blu-ray.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
Super Saiyan Swagger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1974
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:So I'm going through the UI album to pick a shot for my wallpaper and I noticed I managed to snap this:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
The random bluey blob between Goku and Jiren reads A44. What the heck is that about? A production note accidentally left there or something? Very odd.
Great. Thanks for pointing that out, Baggie_Saiyan. Now I can never unsee it. :lol:

User avatar
cuartas
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:16 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by cuartas » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:29 pm

Ajay wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The random bluey blob between Goku and Jiren reads A44. What the heck is that about? A production note accidentally left there or something? Very odd.
The A refers to the layer of the animation, while the number refers to the frame number within the sequence. So in this case, it's the 44th frame on layer 1.

Animators write them on their genga so that everything's kept in order. They're not meant to be kept once they're scanned in, but I guess this just slipped through.

The CG effect appears to be applied to everything on Goku's layer within the rotation, so it ended up making the numbers glow, too.

Hopefully it's removed on the Blu-ray.
My question is, why in latin typography?

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15155
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Chuquita » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:45 pm

That A44's a neat catch.

Re: the green sky

I'm actually ok with it; I do think we needed a change of scenery and while I think this green looks too much like the Goku Black arc's green sky, at least it's no longer that dark metalic purple-green-blue that it was before.
My deviantart * My tumblr * My twitter
---
フレフレ みんあ! フレフレ 私!

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16491
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:16 am

cuartas wrote:
Ajay wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The random bluey blob between Goku and Jiren reads A44. What the heck is that about? A production note accidentally left there or something? Very odd.
The A refers to the layer of the animation, while the number refers to the frame number within the sequence. So in this case, it's the 44th frame on layer 1.

Animators write them on their genga so that everything's kept in order. They're not meant to be kept once they're scanned in, but I guess this just slipped through.

The CG effect appears to be applied to everything on Goku's layer within the rotation, so it ended up making the numbers glow, too.

Hopefully it's removed on the Blu-ray.
My question is, why in latin typography?
It's simple and easy for people to read beyond fully knowing a language.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2217
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:25 am

Amir wrote:
cuartas wrote:
Amir wrote: EP86 wasn't that good imo. It didn't have good effects, complex movements and good art. This episode was way better than 86. I have no idea why you say it was stiff. Stiffness is like that Shimanuki run in episode 105 when they barely moved their limbs at all and looked...well....stiff. The movements were fluid and didn't feel choppy, mainly because of the high fps, great poses and enough frames in every combat move. In this episode nothing was stiff. Everything was moving smoothly. Can you post an example from the ep so I can see what you're talking about?

Just look at that scene when Hit tries to attak Jiren and Jiren counters it with some awesome dodging and geat looking kicks. It was so amazing.
I second this, this episode looked absolutely beautiful, and it was well animated.
Definitely the bar is pretty higher than before to say this episode was "shit", I'd be pleased to have these episodes when yashima or even tate are the directors (but to be fair, last yashima episode looked good but just because he was absent 95% of the shots), not to mention this is far better than the first episodes when the ToP commenced
lol I thought I was getting delusional. After watching it again it looks even better. The art was solid 80% of the ep, a fair amount of detail and everything. This ep had many quality animation moments.
The episode was, at best, "decently" animated, however, it was a completely unimpressive episode.

#86 was filled with snappy cuts of animation that put a huge focus on the anticipation of the characters movements and follow through, thats what people often refer to when they're talking about fluid animation. The animation this episode had comparatively very little anticipation and the follow through was mostly extremely limited. Though it did have some OK cuts, there was nothing particularly juicy or impactful about them like there was for episode 79 and 86, in fact, I found the animation quite janky a lot of the time because of this. The aforementioned episodes had animation that did a great job at emphasizing every major movement and impact in a satisfying manner. This episode failed to do that effectively the majority of the time.

User avatar
Amir
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:17 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Amir » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:51 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Amir wrote:
cuartas wrote: I second this, this episode looked absolutely beautiful, and it was well animated.
Definitely the bar is pretty higher than before to say this episode was "shit", I'd be pleased to have these episodes when yashima or even tate are the directors (but to be fair, last yashima episode looked good but just because he was absent 95% of the shots), not to mention this is far better than the first episodes when the ToP commenced
lol I thought I was getting delusional. After watching it again it looks even better. The art was solid 80% of the ep, a fair amount of detail and everything. This ep had many quality animation moments.
The episode was, at best, "decently" animated, however, it was a completely unimpressive episode.

#86 was filled with snappy cuts of animation that put a huge focus on the anticipation of the characters movements and follow through, thats what people often refer to when they're talking about fluid animation. The animation this episode had comparatively very little anticipation and the follow through was mostly extremely limited. Though it did have some OK cuts, there was nothing particularly juicy or impactful about them like there was for episode 79 and 86, in fact, I found the animation quite janky a lot of the time because of this. The aforementioned episodes had animation that did a great job at emphasizing every major movement and impact in a satisfying manner. This episode failed to do that effectively the majority of the time.
I disagree, I thought there were plenty of great stuff in this episode.
#86 was filled with snappy cuts of animation that put a huge focus on the anticipation of the characters movements and follow through, thats what people often refer to when they're talking about fluid animation
Okey so fluid is a wrong term, I just thought it was smooth and well animated. Also just because the animation doesn't have characters doing some weird/not weird body movements before charging (like SSJ Goku did before going upwards or 17 before throwing that gut punch or the punch at the beginning) doesn't mean it's flawed. It's not a must thing to have.
The animation this episode had comparatively very little anticipation and the follow through was mostly extremely limited.
Just because the animation didn't have that doesn't mean it can't be good nonetheless, there were other factors in the animation that were far better than episode 86, like the actual combat movements. Anticipation and follow through are not the only things that matter most. Other important things are the quality of the fighting movements, poses, art and effects, which were better in #111 than #86.
there was nothing particularly juicy or impactful about them like there was for episode 79 and 86
Yes there was, especially in the repeated frames, the heavy spacing between frames combined with the fast pacing and impact effects made the hits look super powerful. Jiren countering Hit's time skip which showcased very skilled fighting movements, Jiren blocking Hit's ''heart punch'' that even had that anticipation you like so much, and then Hit gets behind him super quickly and lands a devastating punch with those awesome effects, sending him flying through the rocks - that part was flawless. Things don't have to be juicy and liquid looking like Tate's style in order to look great. Great movements, art and effects are more than enough to make the fight look great.

Also I think what you do is not fair. How can the animation have the opportunity to show those build ups or anticipations when the fight is pretty consistent and continual without many breaks? And Hit's time skip movements don't require a build up so it's not fair. I would like you to list me parts in ep111 when anticipation was needed and it wasn't there. In ep86 there were tons of breaks in the fight, like when Goku threw a punch at 17 and it missed, and then we see a close up of 17 preparing to throw a punch. Different styles of animation. You can't say the animation wasn't good because the anticipations that you really like weren't animated so slowly and had no big focus on them. It's like me saying the animation was bad because there were no smoke effects and good choreography. Animation is good or bad for what it has, not for what it doesn't have. Animation can be only effects and it could be eye candy but then you say it sucked because there wasn't any character animation.

Ep86 had the focus on anticipation movements before attacking, this episode had focus on everything else besides this. And in my opinion, the actual fighting movements and effects are way more important than the movmenets characters do before attacking. Ep86 may have had those parts pretty spot on, but other than those, the effects were lame, combat movements were limited and basic, 90% repeated frames with weird extended limbs that looked like blades and fair share of bad art.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5810
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:46 pm

-Episode 112 expectations-

Hyped for Toshio's writing and Shida storyboard in the next episode. Maybe Shida animates something too like he did in episode 95.
I'm also interested to see more of Koji Nashizawa as Supervisor.

If anything, I think this episode will have the staff that Hit vs Jiren deserved.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:07 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:. Maybe Shida animates something too like he did in episode 95.
Don't count on it.

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6195
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Ajay » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:31 pm

Episode 112

Animation Supervisor
Noel Ano-nuevo Joey Calangian Nashizawa Koji

Key Animators
Toei Phils. Miuma Kenji Nashizawa Koji Tu Yong-ce Masuda Nobuhiro

2nd Key Animators
Yokoyama Miyuki Tanigawa Mieko Anitus Kobe Kagura

-

That was fantastic. Such a strong showing from everyone. The Toei Phils half was perfectly fine, and then Miuma comes in in the second half and just goes wild. What a showing from him. I'm so happy.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
BakaManiaHD
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:57 am
Location: France

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by BakaManiaHD » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:41 pm

It looks like the special had 0 impact on the show in terms of production
it really shows how better the schedule is
Wonderful episode, i think Cabba's galick cannon was the highlight
kill me

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:53 pm

Outside of Nashizawa having some trouble with front on shots in the second half that was a really polished episode. Shida's board was great and seeing that tiny staff list is awesome.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21389
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:58 pm

I was expecting some good stuff out of Shida storyboarding this episode and I got that and even more. This was a shockingly well rounded and good looking entry. And as ArchedThunder already pointed out, that tiny staff list just puts the cherry on top of the cake and makes this episode even more special.

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:03 pm

The only shot that stood out to me as questionable was Super Noodley Cabba right after his transformation. The rest of it looked pretty great.

I'm really surprised at how consistently well-drawn Frieza has been in this arc. I don't think he's ever looked better that I can recall. He had lots of janky art on Namek and in the RoF saga.

User avatar
MozillaVulpix
Regular
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by MozillaVulpix » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:04 pm

I knew this episode was something special when it got Beerus's ears right.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MozillaVulpix

User avatar
Super Saiyan Swagger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1974
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am
Location: Australia

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:30 pm

Cabba's Galick Gun against Freeza looked awesome. The second half of the episode looked really good.

User avatar
DragonBalllKaiHD
I Live Here
Posts: 2707
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:37 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:55 pm

Just to be clear on something here, the schedule still sucks as far as I'm concerned. Three animation supervisors, in addition to second key animators having to clean up the rushed gengas, tell a different story.
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's #1 biggest fan

A piece of animation is a beauty of art.

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:59 pm

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Just to be clear on something here, the schedule still sucks as far as I'm concerned. Three animation supervisors, in addition to second key animators having to clean up the rushed gengas, tell a different story.
Toei Phils episodes almost always have 2 supervisors from that studio, regardless of the show.
And 2nd KA are standard in anime these days.

User avatar
Amir
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:17 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Amir » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:04 pm

So I feel like I'm watching a regular anime right now, the episodes have consistent quality and I love it. There were even some exceptionally great pieces of animation in this episode.
I'm impressed how Super improved their animation, because it looks like a masterpiece now compared to the other arcs (yes even some of the FT arc).

Post Reply