"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

[Cure Dragon 255]

While I really dont like Sean's attitude they could have said so in a kinder way. Because you always catch mores flies with honey or whatever.

[TRIZACK]

If that's true on the accent that is very disappointing and doesn't make any sense. Honestly should have either had the accent for both states or none at all.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I mean... I can’t really judge Goku Black Rosé until I’ve actually heard the voice in the show alongside Zamasu, but I would prefer that Sean just sticks with the voice we heard in the latest episode.

Gonna wait and see how this all pans out as the arc progresses, but hooo boy that AMA is nasty.

[Scsigs]

Goku's voice as Goku Black Rose will still have an accent. That's because it's based on the voice the actor playing Zamasu gave him. So, Goku Black will sound like Goku basically, just mean and evil acting style, and Rose will have a more "proper" accent but not truly British. this is because more of the Zamasu power channels through him and to also suspend disbelief in the sense that when Goku black rose and Zamasu are next to each other it should feel like the same type of spirit is inhabiting both bodies.

That isn't what happens though. Rosé occurs because Goku Black is Zamasu, not because "more of his power channels through him". It doesn't make sense for him to suddenly get an accent when he transforms.

So I guess we are just wrong and you are right. We are going to change it instantly. #artisticlicense. Go get a job where someone constantly criticizes your work as if they know more or have a better understanding of than you, just because they are a fan. It's not like I bust my ass as hard as possible to do as good a job as possible. Of course I don't expect constant praise or any praise. But once you get criticized for 18 years it really starts to wear on you.

I get to do whatever, the licensor, and my director allows me to do. We work hard with very little data to interpret the original source material and preserve it to the best of our ability whilst making it palatable for English speaking audiences.

I mean, I kinda get the fact of why he'd get that interpretation of Zamasu's power being channeled through Goku's body to turn SSB into SSR, however, they clearly didn't do a ton of outside research if it's not there in the show, but it's there in supplemental material, though go ahead & correct me, since I haven't watched the entire arc yet. SSR is the same exact thing as SSB, but influenced by the user being dubbed a god. That IS what Zamasu was training to be, after all; a Supreme Kai, or a kind of God. Shit, Super Saiyan Blue's real name is "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan," or as Goku explained, "I god a taste of a form called 'Super Saiyan God' & this is the Super Saiyan form of that," meaning he's channelling the power of a god, but he's NOT a god.
Hell, that's WHY Zamasu traded bodies with Goku in the first place; to obtain Goku's power because he's already stronger than the majority of the Gods in their multiverse. It's the exact reason why Ginyu did the same shit in the Namek Arc. So, if Goku himself were to obtain true god status, his SSB form would ALSO potentially turn into SSR. Zamasu is NOT using his own power in Goku's body. He's using GOKU'S. That's why at the beginning of the arc, until he fights Goku, he's using his own developed techniques & Goku's base power, but slowly learns to tap into Goku's inherent power & use more of his techniques & fighting style. He even says after fighting Goku when he's pulled back to the future that his body adapted to fighting Goku & learned from the experience. And I know that it's a different thing, but the manga took this a step further by first portraying Black as only being able to go base Super Saiyan, but then learns how to go SSGSS. The same shit would happen to Vegeta if he were to become a god.
I mean, I really get the criticism thing, but I don't like his attitude in that he's implying that no one else'e interpretation, based on facts presented in the material or in supplemental stuff, of which there's a LOT in DB's case from Toriyama alone, matters in this case.

Yes, you are wrong. You are dubbing an existing show, you don't get 'artistic license'. This isn't the 90s, Mr Hope of the Universe.

Yes we do actually. It's called localization.

I mean, yeah, Ajay has a good point. They're dubbing material already created a while ago that people grew to love & more people will grow to love in the future. I mean, this isn't like changing pronunciations of names in Attack On Titan to be more in-line with how'd they be pronounced in Germany. That you can at least get. And the term "localization" means, exactly as he said, making something more palatable to another audience. However, that more means, in terms of anime dubbing, giving that audience a good product that has a good translation of the original script, good castings, & good acting so that it's a good substitute to the original language dub. For the most part, DB gives us that, especially after the Z era of the dubs & definitely after Kai started, but that's due to the production being better nowadays.
I also wouldn't compare his interpretation of how to play the character to the 90s. The 90s was not kind to anime overall. It's more of his interpretation of the events & characterization being wrong, but not wrong in the script for the material, more of him not doing the right research, or getting a second opinion. I mean, have the character sound all high & mighty through the script & have him played as overly cocky because that's how the character is, but don't misunderstand the situation at hand entirely here.

Edit: Just realized why they credited Marsters as that name in FighterZ. It's an anagram of his first & last names! Look at the names of "James Marsters" & "Sam Majesters," just remove one of the "r's" & he's basically like Lord Voldemort. Guess we have all the confirmation we need now.

[Kogu 87]

Yes, you are wrong. You are dubbing an existing show, you don't get 'artistic license'. This isn't the 90s, Mr Hope of the Universe.

I am in agreement with Ajay, but i feel the "mr hope of the universe" slight was a bit unwarranted.
I wish the exchange was a bit more civil on both ends.

[BlueBasilisk]

Reading that AMA makes me feel ashamed to be a Dragon Ball fan. Jesus Christ, what a fucking mess.

I don't mind Black having the faux British accent but I don't see why they couldn't just give it to him in both forms if Zamasu's going to be doing it too.

[SirTorra]

Most of the complaints i hear and see from Dub Goku Black are from sub fans. It's fine to like both but to bitch about something you don't even like (in this case the dub) is purely moronic when you have your original (sub). If you like your sub so much, why complain about the dub?Sean makes perfect sense and to be honest it already sounds better than the sub. We cant even judge his rose voice without even hearing it within context.

[NintendoBlaze53]

Most of the complaints i hear and see from Dub Goku Black are from sub fans. It's fine to like both but to bitch about something you don't even like (in this case the dub) is purely moronic when you have your original (sub). If you like your sub so much, why complain about the dub?Sean makes perfect sense and to be honest it already sounds better than the sub. We cant even judge his rose voice without even hearing it within context.

It's not about dub vs sub. It's about the dub being faithful to the characters. Sean is saying when Goku Black goes Rose', that he become more like Zamasu. The dub is inserting it's own headcannon into the official product. And when the fans rightfully ask them to not mess with the original meaning of the characters or the intent of the Japanese staff, Sean responded by saying that he can do whatever he wants.

In the original version there was no difference between Base and Rose' Goku Black. The dub will be inserting something that was not there in the original, something that is completely unneeded and actually contradicts the original (That Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely). After the faithfulness of Kai, it hurts to see Funimation go back to their old Z dub ways with inserting their own plot points.

[Kataphrut]

It is a shame that this controversy went the way it has. I think the Xenoverse 2 debacle caused them to try and over-correct, when really all it ever needed was what we got just now in episode 47. That's it. That's all it ever needed.

That said, "Mr Hope of the Universe" is an absolutely stupid thing to say for someone trying to approach that discussion in good faith. I know Schemmel has a reputation for being a jerk when he gets defensive, but I can kind of sympathise with him here. Especially since in a situation like this, I would argue it's more the director's responsibility. The attitude doesn't help, but he doesn't deserve to be dog-piled because of a creative decision that was made and approved at multiple levels.

Let's just wait for it to air in the actual show.

[SirTorra]

Let's just wait for it to air in the actual show.

Are you familiar with the fanbase your talking to?

[Kataphrut]

Let's just wait for it to air in the actual show.

Are you familiar with the fanbase your talking to?

That's the thing, this is kind of a first for a certain portion of the fanbase, the ones who grew up with the dub and only really started watching sub with Super because of the delay. For a lot of those people, the prevailing attitude was "OMG why would you want Granny Goku, English Goku for life". Now the shoe's on the other foot, since the Japanese version is so much more readily available and people are more aware/accepting of it than the old days, everyone is freaking out over British Goku Black Rose.

The idea sounds weird on paper, but I'd rather judge the execution for myself than get whipped into a frenzy over a stupid Reddit post.

[OLKv3]

The reasoning he gave is fanfic nonsense
I thought this kind of stuff would be behind the dub but guess not, oh well

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Let's just wait for it to air in the actual show.

Are you familiar with the fanbase your talking to?

That's the thing, this is kind of a first for a certain portion of the fanbase, the ones who grew up with the dub and only really started watching sub with Super because of the delay. For a lot of those people, the prevailing attitude was "OMG why would you want Granny Goku, English Goku for life". Now the shoe's on the other foot, since the Japanese version is so much more readily available and people are more aware/accepting of it than the old days, everyone is freaking out over British Goku Black Rose.

The idea sounds weird on paper, but I'd rather judge the execution for myself than get whipped into a frenzy over a stupid Reddit post.

Right. I mean it is what it is no point getting worked up over it. He's always done different voices for forms, as long as this one is more subtle I won't have a problem.

Anyway, is it wise bringing quoting from other outlets here? NintendoBlaze53 I think you could have just left a link at most instead of leaving actual quotes and leave this on the outlet where it started instead of bringing the drama here. I don't log onto to Kanzenshuu to see drama from other outlets I don't care about regardless of who is involved.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Not gonna lie, I'm kind of dissapointed in Ajay. I've looked up to him a lot regarding the animation and creative direction of the show and respected him too but to throw a little jab like that was unwarranted and rude. Schemmel does get shit on constantly, the guy is just sick of it, let him be

[HeroR]

Not gonna lie, I'm kind of dissapointed in Ajay. I've looked up to him a lot regarding the animation and creative direction of the show and respected him too but to throw a little jab like that was unwarranted and rude. Schemmel does get shit on constantly, the guy is just sick of it, let him be

What's funny that 'Hope of the Universe' didn't even come from Sean. It was mostly the voice director of Z, which I think is Sabat. But Ajay can be a bit of an asshople at times.

The reasoning he gave is fanfic nonsense
I thought this kind of stuff would be behind the dub but guess not, oh well

This is for all dubs, not just Z. They do the same with the One Piece dub.

It's not about dub vs sub. It's about the dub being faithful to the characters. Sean is saying when Goku Black goes Rose', that he become more like Zamasu. The dub is inserting it's own headcannon into the official product. And when the fans rightfully ask them to not mess with the original meaning of the characters or the intent of the Japanese staff, Sean responded by saying that he can do whatever he wants.

In the original version there was no difference between Base and Rose' Goku Black. The dub will be inserting something that was not there in the original, something that is completely unneeded and actually contradicts the original (That Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely). After the faithfulness of Kai, it hurts to see Funimation go back to their old Z dub ways with inserting their own plot points.

There is a slight different. Namely, Black's speech becomes ruder.

And Sean has put his own interpretation of Goku even in Kai, like all of Goku's Super Saiyan forms have different 'voices'. Heck, Goku's Japanese voice actress even encouraged Sean in a panel to do his own interpretation of Goku instead of trying to mimic her and Sean has gone on record saying he doesn't try to match whatever the Japanese is doing.

Also, you're wrong in that 'Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely' was the original interpretation. Black is Zamasu even in the original. The 'Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely' is your interpretation of the character.

[AloversGaming]

Not gonna lie, I'm kind of dissapointed in Ajay. I've looked up to him a lot regarding the animation and creative direction of the show and respected him too but to throw a little jab like that was unwarranted and rude. Schemmel does get shit on constantly, the guy is just sick of it, let him be

Sean gets the hate because he's had an inflated ego for years that at best has acted snobby towards any criticism, and at worst has thrown fits on social media. I'm not a dub fan and I don't keep up with any of the VA's on Twitter, interviews etc. but over the years the little pieces of Sean's attitude i've seen has made him look like a major d-bag. I can understand why some fans (and a lot of sub fans) would show disrespect, even if the mature route should be to be more respectful.

Take a look at how different these same people treat Chris Sabat. Always respectful, always polite even when they disagree strongly with him. I'm not a fan of Chris' Vegeta (dude has no indoor voice), but the way Chris has presented himself in the eyes of the public has been mature, responsible and respectable. He listens to the fans concerns even if he doesn't always make the choices they hoped for.

With more DB sub fans today than ever before there's going to be constant questions on how the dub will treat future characters. If a character is poorly handled like SSJR will be should they go with this odd accent thing (reasons why the accent is incorrect already posted here by other users), than they're going to get strong criticism. Dismissing it will lead to disrespect from the viewers.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Not gonna lie, I'm kind of dissapointed in Ajay. I've looked up to him a lot regarding the animation and creative direction of the show and respected him too but to throw a little jab like that was unwarranted and rude. Schemmel does get shit on constantly, the guy is just sick of it, let him be

What's funny that 'Hope of the Universe' didn't even come from Sean. It was mostly the voice director of Z, which I think is Sabat. But Ajay can be a bit of an asshople at times.

The reasoning he gave is fanfic nonsense
I thought this kind of stuff would be behind the dub but guess not, oh well

This is for all dubs, not just Z. They do the same with the One Piece dub.

It's not about dub vs sub. It's about the dub being faithful to the characters. Sean is saying when Goku Black goes Rose', that he become more like Zamasu. The dub is inserting it's own headcannon into the official product. And when the fans rightfully ask them to not mess with the original meaning of the characters or the intent of the Japanese staff, Sean responded by saying that he can do whatever he wants.

In the original version there was no difference between Base and Rose' Goku Black. The dub will be inserting something that was not there in the original, something that is completely unneeded and actually contradicts the original (That Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely). After the faithfulness of Kai, it hurts to see Funimation go back to their old Z dub ways with inserting their own plot points.

There is a slight different. Namely, Black's speech becomes ruder.

And Sean has put his own interpretation of Goku even in Kai, like all of Goku's Super Saiyan forms have different 'voices'. Heck, Goku's Japanese voice actress even encouraged Sean in a panel to do his own interpretation of Goku instead of trying to mimic her and Sean has gone on record saying he doesn't try to match whatever the Japanese is doing.

Also, you're wrong in that 'Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely' was the original interpretation. Black is Zamasu even in the original. The 'Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely' is your interpretation of the character.

The only time they did it with One Piece was when they said Zoro "killed" Daz Bones. Other than that, it's been 100% faithful

[NintendoBlaze53]

It's not about dub vs sub. It's about the dub being faithful to the characters. Sean is saying when Goku Black goes Rose', that he become more like Zamasu. The dub is inserting it's own headcannon into the official product. And when the fans rightfully ask them to not mess with the original meaning of the characters or the intent of the Japanese staff, Sean responded by saying that he can do whatever he wants.

In the original version there was no difference between Base and Rose' Goku Black. The dub will be inserting something that was not there in the original, something that is completely unneeded and actually contradicts the original (That Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely). After the faithfulness of Kai, it hurts to see Funimation go back to their old Z dub ways with inserting their own plot points.

There is a slight different. Namely, Black's speech becomes ruder.

And Sean has put his own interpretation of Goku even in Kai, like all of Goku's Super Saiyan forms have different 'voices'. Heck, Goku's Japanese voice actress even encouraged Sean in a panel to do his own interpretation of Goku instead of trying to mimic her and Sean has gone on record saying he doesn't try to match whatever the Japanese is doing.

Also, you're wrong in that 'Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely' was the original interpretation. Black is Zamasu even in the original. The 'Goku Black is neither Zamasu nor Goku, but something else entirely' is your interpretation of the character.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure Black was stated to be his own character. He's clearly not Goku but at the same time he isn't Zamasu. Goku Black is Zamasu in soul yes, but being in Goku's body had corrupted him, he has the pride of a Saiyan now, the thirst for battle. Again, it's been a while since I watched the Goku Black Arc. But I know I didn't think of Black as a separate character on my own. If Black was just Zamasu in Goku's body, why do we still call him Goku Black? They did in the show too after the reveal.

Point is. Sean's logic is Rose' causes Goku Black to suddenly gain an accent because Zamasu is inside of him and Rose' causes Zamasu to take over more. This has never been stated ever in any material and it's the dub and Funimation taking too many liberties with the characters.

[Kataphrut]

I think Terez put it best on Twitter when she pointed out that:

a) The people who have the biggest issue with the idea (sub fans, presumably) haven't lost anything and
b) At the end of the day, fan opinion doesn't actually matter that much.

That second one stands out to me because I've seen that argument come up a lot related to the Goku Black voice. Schemmel has said in interviews on the matter that he doesn't take fan feedback on board, nor does he try to take influence from the Japanese performance. As fans, that sounds shitty because we want him to do what we want. But at the end of the day, he has every right to take that approach and do his own thing. We can't stop that, we shouldn't assume getting angry will make a difference, and he's managed to yield good performances as Goku regardless. If this Rose thing turns out bad, Nozawa's version will always be there.

The other thing is this stuff regarding Sean's personality. If he has a reputation for being like that, why are people antagonising him? As I said before, creative decisions like Black's voice aren't entirely his, even if he obviously has significant input on the matter. Why does he get all the flack? And no, I'm not saying people should go after Chris Sabat or anyone else either. I'm just saying, it feels like there's some schadenfreude going on here. Like, it looks bad for all concerned, but I can't help but look at the reaction that AMA got, with everyone cheering on Ajay and retweeting the "greatest hits" of Sean's replies and think certain fans were just waiting for a fall. Let's all watch this actor we don't like from this dub we don't like put his foot in his mouth so we can validate our opinions.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Bang on.

This isn't like Pokémon where the dub is replacing the Japanese, the Japanese will still be there. Then there's the fact no one has actually heard what Rosé sounds like in the actual dub yet.

Then there's the fact that everyone is under the illusion of Nozawa's voice to not realise her Black wasn't that greatly acted especially compared to Miki's Zamasu whenever people praise Nozawa's Black they're always praising the voice not the acting unlike for Miki. The voice is half the job you still have to act. If there is more synergy between Black and Zamasu in the dub then I'm game.

Then there's the fact that people have conditioned themselves to think any change is bad. A dub is an adaptation it's not supposed to be the Japanese.

At the end of the day I'm not voicing Black so if Schemmel wants to go in the direction he wants then power to him he has every right. As a fan I can like it or dislike it there's nothing I can do.