"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

[bleed0range]

I personally feel he is right, because if you really want to see the original version it’s very widely available now. Most hardcore fans have seen all of Super already in Japanese. Even a lot of casuals saw it that way first and now understand the difference better.

But watching the Japanese version isn't convenient for everyone, as I said if a blind person wants to watch Super they should be able to get the same experience as anyone else. That means a dub which doesn't alter important lines of dialogue and keeps consistent tonally with the Japanese version.

The donut line changes all that and turns a serious scene into a meme. Sure its just one line but its setting aup precedent and if no one complains about it Funimation will think its ok to keep doing it.

We're also at risk of the fandom being split into dub vs sub debates all over again with people making excuses for the dub changes like "the Japanese dialogue is generic".

I see your point on people with disabilities who may be unable to read the subtitles. But to be honest, that particular donut line that Hit makes didn’t strike me as being “funny,” but merely a different way to say the same thing. Perhaps it’s supposed to have been funny or maybe people just interpreted it that way . But I just thought it was a strange way to say “work,” and put no other thought into it. I am of course, completely unfamiliar with the meme, if one does exist for the donut thing.

I haven’t found anything they’ve done that really stretches the meaning of a scene that far from the sub. But I admittedly have only seen the sub once all the way through, so maybe I’m forgetting things.

[Scsigs]

I mean, there are definitely things to definitely take issue with in the dub, but I don't think line accuracy is much of one. If it's a line in the English script not working on its own, I can understand. If it's not keeping the tone of the original, I understand. I hate the Z dub for tonal inconsistencies & bad lines that don't even work in the dub's context most of the time. However, I think the way the Super dub's script is being written, the majority of the lines do work the majority of the time. Some things don't work & could've either been more accurate to the original, or changed to better fit the dub's context better. However, I think the dub is more often than not good. I especially like the wordings of most of the lines that they do to fit the lipflaps. English is a more diverse language than Japanese, since we have more words than them, so I like the flavoring they give the lines.

And just to get to Magetta's voice. Why do people care about this guy this much? Magetta is a very nothing character. He's a metal man from a planet of them. And? Toriyama literally introduced Magetta to be an obstacle for Vegeta in the U6 Arc. He has little personality & what's there are just extreme reactions to insults where he cries. That dude is ridiculed by Toriyama through the storytelling. Now, I don't know how Magetta's portrayed in the US Arc yet, but I doubt it's any more than that. The fact that he doesn't speak outside of that stupid "Cho-po-po-po" phrase is just indicative in this. Sabat most likely agrees, hence why they used text-to-speech for the dub to have him say random words. It's essentially the same thing in both contexts, since they serve the exact same purpose. Granted, both are weird & stupid, but for different reasons. I've said this before & I'll repeat it no matter how many times I have to. I remember when MasakoX said he felt bad for Magetta at a point in the sub due to the voice acting. Maybe that was the intent, but Magetta isn't a character that I feel bad for. If you pay attention to the way the scenes play out, you're meant to laugh at him, not sympathize with him. That's just how I interpreted that at least.

[1345521]

I mean, there are definitely things to definitely take issue with in the dub, but I don't think line accuracy is much of one. If it's a line in the English script not working on its own, I can understand. If it's not keeping the tone of the original, I understand. I hate the Z dub for tonal inconsistencies & bad lines that don't even work in the dub's context most of the time. However, I think the way the Super dub's script is being written, the majority of the lines do work the majority of the time. Some things don't work & could've either been more accurate to the original, or changed to better fit the dub's context better. However, I think the dub is more often than not good. I especially like the wordings of most of the lines that they do to fit the lipflaps. English is a more diverse language than Japanese, since we have more words than them, so I like the flavoring they give the lines.

And just to get to Magetta's voice. Why do people care about this guy this much? Magetta is a very nothing character. He's a metal man from a planet of them. And? Toriyama literally introduced Magetta to be an obstacle for Vegeta in the U6 Arc. He has little personality & what's there are just extreme reactions to insults where he cries. That dude is ridiculed by Toriyama through the storytelling. Now, I don't know how Magetta's portrayed in the US Arc yet, but I doubt it's any more than that. The fact that he doesn't speak outside of that stupid "Cho-po-po-po" phrase is just indicative in this. Sabat most likely agrees, hence why they used text-to-speech for the dub to have him say random words. It's essentially the same thing in both contexts, since they serve the exact same purpose. Granted, both are weird & stupid, but for different reasons. I've said this before & I'll repeat it no matter how many times I have to. I remember when MasakoX said he felt bad for Magetta at a point in the sub due to the voice acting. Maybe that was the intent, but Magetta isn't a character that I feel bad for. If you pay attention to the way the scenes play out, you're meant to laugh at him, not sympathize with him. That's just how I interpreted that at least.

I LOVED old Z dub, but supers dub is okay. The audio presentation of their voice seems a little weird, it dosen't seem as natural as old z dub. But that probably had to do with falconer back gorund music.

[Shaddy]

I see your point on people with disabilities who may be unable to read the subtitles. But to be honest, that particular donut line that Hit makes didn’t strike me as being “funny,” but merely a different way to say the same thing. Perhaps it’s supposed to have been funny or maybe people just interpreted it that way . But I just thought it was a strange way to say “work,” and put no other thought into it. I am of course, completely unfamiliar with the meme, if one does exist for the donut thing.

I haven’t found anything they’ve done that really stretches the meaning of a scene that far from the sub. But I admittedly have only seen the sub once all the way through, so maybe I’m forgetting things.

It's based off a bizarrely-translated line from him in Xenoverse 2, and even if you just think it's weird, it's already failed it's job then, hasn't it? He's meant to be threatening and cold here, and any normal way of him trying to murder Goku while treating it as "work" is meant to be intimidating, not funny, and not confusing either.

That's the bottom line with all this stuff. I really am not bothered by most changes at all. When I watch with my dad and sister we spend a lot of time riffing on it because it's Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is, y'know, kinda stupid. But the fact is that plenty of dubs can be accurate, fit translation, lip flaps, properly work in word gags in some cases, and be generally great without resorting to this, and there's no reason for Dragon Ball to be like this when the dubbers themselves said they wanted to be more accurate and were ashamed of how terrible the old dubs were, even ignoring how much nobody could act in the 90s dub (also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta calls Goku 'Goku' in one scene and that's unforgivable). One Piece's dub has half the same cast and it doesn't have these issues. Hero Academia's dub is one of the most up-to-date and fastest simuldubs Funi does, and it's got none of this. People love those dubs (well, when they don't think One Piece is still dubbed by 4kids), I've only ever seen this stuff go on in DB fandom (and Yu Yu Hakusho, but only as an extension of the Super discussion). So what exactly is Dragon Ball's excuse? I honestly don't think there is one, not a good one at least.

[1345521]

I see your point on people with disabilities who may be unable to read the subtitles. But to be honest, that particular donut line that Hit makes didn’t strike me as being “funny,” but merely a different way to say the same thing. Perhaps it’s supposed to have been funny or maybe people just interpreted it that way . But I just thought it was a strange way to say “work,” and put no other thought into it. I am of course, completely unfamiliar with the meme, if one does exist for the donut thing.

I haven’t found anything they’ve done that really stretches the meaning of a scene that far from the sub. But I admittedly have only seen the sub once all the way through, so maybe I’m forgetting things.

It's based off a bizarrely-translated line from him in Xenoverse 2, and even if you just think it's weird, it's already failed it's job then, hasn't it? He's meant to be threatening and cold here, and any normal way of him trying to murder Goku while treating it as "work" is meant to be intimidating, not funny, and not confusing either.

That's the bottom line with all this stuff. I really am not bothered by most changes at all. When I watch with my dad and sister we spend a lot of time riffing on it because it's Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is, y'know, kinda stupid. But the fact is that plenty of dubs can be accurate, fit translation, lip flaps, properly work in word gags in some cases, and be generally great without resorting to this, and there's no reason for Dragon Ball to be like this when the dubbers themselves said they wanted to be more accurate and were ashamed of how terrible the old dubs were, even ignoring how much nobody could act in the 90s dub (also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta calls Goku 'Goku' in one scene and that's unforgivable). One Piece's dub has half the same cast and it doesn't have these issues. Hero Academia's dub is one of the most up-to-date and fastest simuldubs Funi does, and it's got none of this. People love those dubs (well, when they don't think One Piece is still dubbed by 4kids), I've only ever seen this stuff go on in DB fandom (and Yu Yu Hakusho, but only as an extension of the Super discussion). So what exactly is Dragon Ball's excuse? I honestly don't think there is one, not a good one at least.

Nobody could "act" in the 90s? Hmph, I LOVED the old Z dub, so I don't agree with you there. But Hit making Donuts or whatever was a "dumb-line" however I DO NOT think dragon ball is "Kinda stupid" - thank you very much. Plus the japeanse dub of Z aren't perfect gods, usually the lines from English dub usally make the japeanse dub way more sophsticated and deep, so I welcome the change of english dub when they find fit. Like calling zamsu "zama-su" instead of a much cooler pronoucnaition like "Za-Ma-Su". However, I think english dub should have just kept the "hakai" as "hakai" in the english dub, instead of saying "destruction" which is cringier and less cool. Like in Old Z dub, we didn't change surpeme kai to "supreme god". Imagine if we got this dub in the toonami era..dragon ball would suck. dabura would be pronocuned "Da-Bu-ra" instead of the more boss name of "Da-bore-ra" or gero would be pronouced "garo" instead of "gero". Or Majin buu would be called like "demon buu". I welcome a liberal dub, because japeanse dub aren't perfect and aren't that good in terms of dialouge when it comes to dragon ball. Sometimes keeping the actual japaense name is good. But at the same token, I also prefer my english dub for dragon ball to be as LIBERAL as possible when dubbing. Because we american fans aren't japeanse and sometimes when you dub it, you can change some stuff or add cool stuff to widen the series, obviously that can create confusion but it's a price i'm willing to pay to to get a better english dub. I loved the Z dub so much, while I think kai dub is pretty subpar and cringe.

[Bergamo]

I see your point on people with disabilities who may be unable to read the subtitles. But to be honest, that particular donut line that Hit makes didn’t strike me as being “funny,” but merely a different way to say the same thing. Perhaps it’s supposed to have been funny or maybe people just interpreted it that way . But I just thought it was a strange way to say “work,” and put no other thought into it. I am of course, completely unfamiliar with the meme, if one does exist for the donut thing.

I haven’t found anything they’ve done that really stretches the meaning of a scene that far from the sub. But I admittedly have only seen the sub once all the way through, so maybe I’m forgetting things.

It's based off a bizarrely-translated line from him in Xenoverse 2, and even if you just think it's weird, it's already failed it's job then, hasn't it? He's meant to be threatening and cold here, and any normal way of him trying to murder Goku while treating it as "work" is meant to be intimidating, not funny, and not confusing either.

That's the bottom line with all this stuff. I really am not bothered by most changes at all. When I watch with my dad and sister we spend a lot of time riffing on it because it's Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is, y'know, kinda stupid. But the fact is that plenty of dubs can be accurate, fit translation, lip flaps, properly work in word gags in some cases, and be generally great without resorting to this, and there's no reason for Dragon Ball to be like this when the dubbers themselves said they wanted to be more accurate and were ashamed of how terrible the old dubs were, even ignoring how much nobody could act in the 90s dub (also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta calls Goku 'Goku' in one scene and that's unforgivable). One Piece's dub has half the same cast and it doesn't have these issues. Hero Academia's dub is one of the most up-to-date and fastest simuldubs Funi does, and it's got none of this. People love those dubs (well, when they don't think One Piece is still dubbed by 4kids), I've only ever seen this stuff go on in DB fandom (and Yu Yu Hakusho, but only as an extension of the Super discussion). So what exactly is Dragon Ball's excuse? I honestly don't think there is one, not a good one at least.

Nobody could "act" in the 90s? Hmph, I LOVED the old Z dub, so I don't agree with you there. But Hit making Donuts or whatever was a "dumb-line" however I DO NOT think dragon ball is "Kinda stupid" - thank you very much. Plus the japeanse dub of Z aren't perfect gods, usually the lines from English dub usally make the japeanse dub way more sophsticated and deep, so I welcome the change of english dub when they find fit. Like calling zamsu "zama-su" instead of a much cooler pronoucnaition like "Za-Ma-Su". However, I think english dub should have just kept the "hakai" as "hakai" in the english dub, instead of saying "destruction" which is cringier and less cool. Like in Old Z dub, we didn't change surpeme kai to "supreme god". Imagine if we got this dub in the toonami era..dragon ball would suck. dabura would be pronocuned "Da-Bu-ra" instead of the more boss name of "Da-bore-ra" or gero would be pronouced "garo" instead of "gero". Or Majin buu would be called like "demon buu". I welcome a liberal dub, because japeanse dub aren't perfect and aren't that good in terms of dialouge when it comes to dragon ball. Sometimes keeping the actual japaense name is good. But at the same token, I also prefer my english dub for dragon ball to be as LIBERAL as possible when dubbing. Because we american fans aren't japeanse and sometimes when you dub it, you can change some stuff or add cool stuff to widen the series, obviously that can create confusion but it's a price i'm willing to pay to to get a better english dub. I loved the Z dub so much, while I think kai dub is pretty subpar and cringe.

To be honest, "That's one whopper of a lizard," "Time to put some pain on the barbie!" "These balls... I want to caress them," "I CAN WIN I FEEL GREAT!" and "Mondo cool," are weird translations that I feel ultimately worsen the tone of the series. It is notable that all of these lines happened in the Frieza Saga, so this isn't the entire Z dub.

[1345521]

It's based off a bizarrely-translated line from him in Xenoverse 2, and even if you just think it's weird, it's already failed it's job then, hasn't it? He's meant to be threatening and cold here, and any normal way of him trying to murder Goku while treating it as "work" is meant to be intimidating, not funny, and not confusing either.

That's the bottom line with all this stuff. I really am not bothered by most changes at all. When I watch with my dad and sister we spend a lot of time riffing on it because it's Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is, y'know, kinda stupid. But the fact is that plenty of dubs can be accurate, fit translation, lip flaps, properly work in word gags in some cases, and be generally great without resorting to this, and there's no reason for Dragon Ball to be like this when the dubbers themselves said they wanted to be more accurate and were ashamed of how terrible the old dubs were, even ignoring how much nobody could act in the 90s dub (also, I'm pretty sure Vegeta calls Goku 'Goku' in one scene and that's unforgivable). One Piece's dub has half the same cast and it doesn't have these issues. Hero Academia's dub is one of the most up-to-date and fastest simuldubs Funi does, and it's got none of this. People love those dubs (well, when they don't think One Piece is still dubbed by 4kids), I've only ever seen this stuff go on in DB fandom (and Yu Yu Hakusho, but only as an extension of the Super discussion). So what exactly is Dragon Ball's excuse? I honestly don't think there is one, not a good one at least.

Nobody could "act" in the 90s? Hmph, I LOVED the old Z dub, so I don't agree with you there. But Hit making Donuts or whatever was a "dumb-line" however I DO NOT think dragon ball is "Kinda stupid" - thank you very much. Plus the japeanse dub of Z aren't perfect gods, usually the lines from English dub usally make the japeanse dub way more sophsticated and deep, so I welcome the change of english dub when they find fit. Like calling zamsu "zama-su" instead of a much cooler pronoucnaition like "Za-Ma-Su". However, I think english dub should have just kept the "hakai" as "hakai" in the english dub, instead of saying "destruction" which is cringier and less cool. Like in Old Z dub, we didn't change surpeme kai to "supreme god". Imagine if we got this dub in the toonami era..dragon ball would suck. dabura would be pronocuned "Da-Bu-ra" instead of the more boss name of "Da-bore-ra" or gero would be pronouced "garo" instead of "gero". Or Majin buu would be called like "demon buu". I welcome a liberal dub, because japeanse dub aren't perfect and aren't that good in terms of dialouge when it comes to dragon ball. Sometimes keeping the actual japaense name is good. But at the same token, I also prefer my english dub for dragon ball to be as LIBERAL as possible when dubbing. Because we american fans aren't japeanse and sometimes when you dub it, you can change some stuff or add cool stuff to widen the series, obviously that can create confusion but it's a price i'm willing to pay to to get a better english dub. I loved the Z dub so much, while I think kai dub is pretty subpar and cringe.

To be honest, "That's one whopper of a lizard," "Time to put some pain on the barbie!" "These balls... I want to caress them," "I CAN WIN I FEEL GREAT!" and "Mondo cool," are weird translations that I feel ultimately worsen the tone of the series. It is notable that all of these lines happened in the Frieza Saga, so this isn't the entire Z dub.

That's one whopper of a lizard...how is that weird? It's just un-popular words vegeta decided to use in the mist of an un-normal event..we have said things or phrases that usually are not that popular or HIP (Hey...get it...I just said somethin...NVM)
Time to put some pain on the barbie...I'm guessing vegeta said that to 18? Lol, it was an roast, plus Z had some of the most orginal and funny roast of the era.
These balls I want to caress them.... Hahahah. I remember Ocean dub Freeza saying that, but did funi frieza ever say that? hahaha. Okay that one I agree. lol
I can WIN I FEEL GREAT... oh cmon, Bergamo. That was awesome and put some personaility dynamic into piccolo. Plus it was funny, and HYPE at the same time. I mean, piccolo went from like 80,00-100,000 to like 1,000,000+. His power level was amzing, the mere excitment can sometimes break character norms.
Mondo cool... The heck is this?

[Bergamo]

Nobody could "act" in the 90s? Hmph, I LOVED the old Z dub, so I don't agree with you there. But Hit making Donuts or whatever was a "dumb-line" however I DO NOT think dragon ball is "Kinda stupid" - thank you very much. Plus the japeanse dub of Z aren't perfect gods, usually the lines from English dub usally make the japeanse dub way more sophsticated and deep, so I welcome the change of english dub when they find fit. Like calling zamsu "zama-su" instead of a much cooler pronoucnaition like "Za-Ma-Su". However, I think english dub should have just kept the "hakai" as "hakai" in the english dub, instead of saying "destruction" which is cringier and less cool. Like in Old Z dub, we didn't change surpeme kai to "supreme god". Imagine if we got this dub in the toonami era..dragon ball would suck. dabura would be pronocuned "Da-Bu-ra" instead of the more boss name of "Da-bore-ra" or gero would be pronouced "garo" instead of "gero". Or Majin buu would be called like "demon buu". I welcome a liberal dub, because japeanse dub aren't perfect and aren't that good in terms of dialouge when it comes to dragon ball. Sometimes keeping the actual japaense name is good. But at the same token, I also prefer my english dub for dragon ball to be as LIBERAL as possible when dubbing. Because we american fans aren't japeanse and sometimes when you dub it, you can change some stuff or add cool stuff to widen the series, obviously that can create confusion but it's a price i'm willing to pay to to get a better english dub. I loved the Z dub so much, while I think kai dub is pretty subpar and cringe.

To be honest, "That's one whopper of a lizard," "Time to put some pain on the barbie!" "These balls... I want to caress them," "I CAN WIN I FEEL GREAT!" and "Mondo cool," are weird translations that I feel ultimately worsen the tone of the series. It is notable that all of these lines happened in the Frieza Saga, so this isn't the entire Z dub.

That's one whopper of a lizard...how is that weird? It's just un-popular words vegeta decided to use in the mist of an un-normal event..we have said things or phrases that usually are not that popular or HIP (Hey...get it...I just said somethin...NVM)
Time to put some pain on the barbie...I'm guessing vegeta said that to 18? Lol, it was an roast, plus Z had some of the most orginal and funny roast of the era.
These balls I want to caress them.... Hahahah. I remember Ocean dub Freeza saying that, but did funi frieza ever say that? hahaha. Okay that one I agree. lol
I can WIN I FEEL GREAT... oh cmon, Bergamo. That was awesome and put some personaility dynamic into piccolo. Plus it was funny, and HYPE at the same time. I mean, piccolo went from like 80,00-100,000 to like 1,000,000+. His power level was amzing, the mere excitment can sometimes break character norms.
Mondo cool... The heck is this?

Australians refer to a barbecue as a barbie. Usually they say time to put some [food item] on the barbie. Juice said that because they want to push that he's Australian.

I guess I do get what you're saying with Piccolo's line being hype, but I just can't take it seriously.

[Shaddy]

Plus the japeanse dub of Z aren't perfect gods, usually the lines from English dub usally make the japeanse dub way more sophsticated and deep,

Even if this were true, again, that's not the dub's job. Alternate-language dubbing is translation and localization, usually for the ease-of-access of people that, for one reason or another, aren't able to enjoy the series in it's original form. Subjective "improvements" to a script are never going to overrule giving viewers of a different language or culture as close as possible to the same experience of the original version, even if you consider such a thing at-odds with changing the language in the first place.

However, I think english dub should have just kept the "hakai" as "hakai" in the english dub, instead of saying "destruction" which is cringier and less cool.

Calling things "cringe" aside, they did keep the word hakai in the dub. At least when Beerus kills Zamasu. It's Gowasu saying "Not to be"(????) afterward that was changed. Either we're watching different shows here or the show itself is inconsistent between episodes, which would also be a bad thing.

Like in Old Z dub, we didn't change surpeme kai to "supreme god".

Beside the fact that it doesn't really translate that way, the references to godhood and the afterlife were removed to due censorship. Is that really what you want? That's where the "Home for Infinite Losers" and "send you to the next dimension" came from, too.

Imagine if we got this dub in the toonami era..dragon ball would suck. dabura would be pronocuned "Da-Bu-ra" instead of the more boss name of "Da-bore-ra" or gero would be pronouced "garo" instead of "gero". Or Majin buu would be called like "demon buu".

Dabura would actually be "Dabra", Gero would still be Gero, just with a hard G, and the 'Majin' in Boo's name is probably because of the giant letter 'M' stapled to anyone under Babidi's control, so they probably wouldn't do that.

More importantly, nobody would have known what they were missing. After all, they already didn't when it first came on TV. If the show had been dubbed properly in the 90s, it would have been just as popular as if it had gotten an even less accurate dub. They could have done whatever they wanted and it would have made money. They did, and they still can. That's why it's such a blessing when we the fans have closer relations to people like Sabat. Because we know they can do whatever they want, we need to tell them to do what's right.

I welcome a liberal dub, because japeanse dub aren't perfect and aren't that good in terms of dialouge when it comes to dragon ball.

And I fundamentally disagree with that ideology. If the intent of a line is changed, or a character altered, it should be at the behest of the people in creative control of the story, not the people who localize it for other languages. It's not about the Japanese being "perfect".

Because we american fans aren't japeanse and sometimes when you dub it, you can change some stuff or add cool stuff to widen the series, obviously that can create confusion but it's a price i'm willing to pay to to get a better english dub.

Well I'm sorry, but I'm not going to stand for objective alterations to character personalities and spreading misinformation just for something that subjectively might sound cool to a niche fandom that's already a minority within the niche English version of an existing fandom. That you think there's some stuff that shouldn't be changed just compounds the fact there's not a good consistent rule to follow with this stuff.

When you make a story, you should ensure that everyone who experiences it gets the same story. Super's dub straddles the line pretty badly, but Z's dub falls squarely off to the side of hardly even resembling the original dialogue.

[1345521]

To be honest, "That's one whopper of a lizard," "Time to put some pain on the barbie!" "These balls... I want to caress them," "I CAN WIN I FEEL GREAT!" and "Mondo cool," are weird translations that I feel ultimately worsen the tone of the series. It is notable that all of these lines happened in the Frieza Saga, so this isn't the entire Z dub.

That's one whopper of a lizard...how is that weird? It's just un-popular words vegeta decided to use in the mist of an un-normal event..we have said things or phrases that usually are not that popular or HIP (Hey...get it...I just said somethin...NVM)
Time to put some pain on the barbie...I'm guessing vegeta said that to 18? Lol, it was an roast, plus Z had some of the most orginal and funny roast of the era.
These balls I want to caress them.... Hahahah. I remember Ocean dub Freeza saying that, but did funi frieza ever say that? hahaha. Okay that one I agree. lol
I can WIN I FEEL GREAT... oh cmon, Bergamo. That was awesome and put some personaility dynamic into piccolo. Plus it was funny, and HYPE at the same time. I mean, piccolo went from like 80,00-100,000 to like 1,000,000+. His power level was amzing, the mere excitment can sometimes break character norms.
Mondo cool... The heck is this?

Australians refer to a barbecue as a barbie. Usually they say time to put some [food item] on the barbie. Juice said that because they want to push that he's Australian.

I guess I do get what you're saying with Piccolo's line being hype, but I just can't take it seriously.

I just can't take it seriously - that's the point.

[1345521]

Plus the japeanse dub of Z aren't perfect gods, usually the lines from English dub usally make the japeanse dub way more sophsticated and deep,

Even if this were true, again, that's not the dub's job. Alternate-language dubbing is translation and localization, usually for the ease-of-access of people that, for one reason or another, aren't able to enjoy the series in it's original form. Subjective "improvements" to a script are never going to overrule giving viewers of a different language or culture as close as possible to the same experience of the original version, even if you consider such a thing at-odds with changing the language in the first place.

However, I think english dub should have just kept the "hakai" as "hakai" in the english dub, instead of saying "destruction" which is cringier and less cool.

Calling things "cringe" aside, they did keep the word hakai in the dub. At least when Beerus kills Zamasu. It's Gowasu saying "Not to be"(????) afterward that was changed. Either we're watching different shows here or the show itself is inconsistent between episodes, which would also be a bad thing.

Like in Old Z dub, we didn't change surpeme kai to "supreme god".

Beside the fact that it doesn't really translate that way, the references to godhood and the afterlife were removed to due censorship. Is that really what you want? That's where the "Home for Infinite Losers" and "send you to the next dimension" came from, too.

Imagine if we got this dub in the toonami era..dragon ball would suck. dabura would be pronocuned "Da-Bu-ra" instead of the more boss name of "Da-bore-ra" or gero would be pronouced "garo" instead of "gero". Or Majin buu would be called like "demon buu".

Dabura would actually be "Dabra", Gero would still be Gero, just with a hard G, and the 'Majin' in Boo's name is probably because of the giant letter 'M' stapled to anyone under Babidi's control, so they probably wouldn't do that.

More importantly, nobody would have known what they were missing. After all, they already didn't when it first came on TV. If the show had been dubbed properly in the 90s, it would have been just as popular as if it had gotten an even less accurate dub. They could have done whatever they wanted and it would have made money. They did, and they still can. That's why it's such a blessing when we the fans have closer relations to people like Sabat. Because we know they can do whatever they want, we need to tell them to do what's right.

I welcome a liberal dub, because japeanse dub aren't perfect and aren't that good in terms of dialouge when it comes to dragon ball.

And I fundamentally disagree with that ideology. If the intent of a line is changed, or a character altered, it should be at the behest of the people in creative control of the story, not the people who localize it for other languages. It's not about the Japanese being "perfect".

Because we american fans aren't japeanse and sometimes when you dub it, you can change some stuff or add cool stuff to widen the series, obviously that can create confusion but it's a price i'm willing to pay to to get a better english dub.

Well I'm sorry, but I'm not going to stand for objective alterations to character personalities and spreading misinformation just for something that subjectively might sound cool to a niche fandom that's already a minority within the niche English version of an existing fandom. That you think there's some stuff that shouldn't be changed just compounds the fact there's not a good consistent rule to follow with this stuff.

When you make a story, you should ensure that everyone who experiences it gets the same story. Super's dub straddles the line pretty badly, but Z's dub falls squarely off to the side of hardly even resembling the original dialogue.

This argument is subjetcive. I don't care about "respecting" that much of orginal intent of japeanse dub, as american dub we should be able to add our own taste and culture into the dub so it's more acessible and appealing to our culture group of whom we are advertising too. This "Minority niche" are the ONLY NICHE you're seelling too. We aren't selling this to japeanse people, UK people, Latin american people so yeah. I feel that goes for ANY DUB, they should add their own twist and flavors to reflect the culture of whom they are advertising too, that is why Z was very popular back in the early 2000s, it really appealed to a lot of americans who may not be anime or manga fans too. If you want to get the real authentic version of whatever you're watching, THEN WATCH THE SHOW SUBBED. lol, it's not that hard. Let people and things play roles, and don't try to conform everbody and everything into the same thing. Then things lessen its purpose.

[Shaddy]

This argument is subjetcive. I don't care about "respecting" that much of orginal intent of japeanse dub, as american dub we should be able to add our own taste and culture into the dub so it's more acessible and appealing to our culture group of whom we are advertising too.

Well that's just kind of close-minded, honestly. If you honestly think a Japanese show can only be accessible to Americans (which I might add are not the only demographic an English dub appeals to) with loads of rewrites, Americanization and cultural references removed or altered, there's not much I can really say to you.

This "Minority niche" are the ONLY NICHE you're seelling too. We aren't selling this to japeanse people, UK people, Latin american people so yeah.

What the fuck? No it isn't. The English dub fanbase is a niche for Dragon Ball. The group that exclusively prefers the old dubs and is aghast at the suggestion that others are better are an even more minuscule niche within that, who more than likely aren't going to buy Super anyway because they almost always exclusively watch Z and don't care about any other parts of the series.

And excuse me? Latin American and UK viewers never buy the English dub? Do you honestly think nobody in the UK, an English speaking country, wants to watch Dragon ball in English? The better part of this dub's recent criticism came from Ajay, from the UK, watching the dub and taking issue with it. He's not even a dub fan, just a hardcore fan in general, like most of this forum!

I feel that goes for ANY DUB, they should add their own twist and flavors to reflect the culture of whom they are advertising too,

No! We've been over this. Translation is to contextualize other culture's media to be more easily viewed from one's own perspective, not to erase it. That's why 4kids calling rice balls "jelly donuts" is a meme. That's why HFIL and the obfuscation of Frieza's personality and goddamn Chris Thorndyke holding a blank sign and Sanji smoking a lollipop are all brought up as examples of this shit.

that is why Z was very popular back in the early 2000s, it really appealed to a lot of americans who may not be anime or manga fans too.

No, Z was popular with kids because it aired on a children's TV network every single day at 5:00 in the evening and it was Dragon Ball fucking Z. Again, the dub could have been anything (and was tons of things, including several different casts with the show and movies considered) and people would have watched it because it's Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Z is fucking awesome.

If you want to get the real authentic version of whatever you're watching, THEN WATCH THE SHOW SUBBED. lol, it's not that hard.

As I said, that is not always an option, and even if was, there would always be people who prefer to watch in their native language, who should be getting the same experience. Why don't you go and condescend to my sister who can't read subtitles about how "it's not that hard" like you're doing to me right now?

Let people and things play roles, and don't try to conform everbody and everything into the same thing. Then things lessen its purpose.

It's not conformism to ask a translation to translate properly. Once you start losing the meaning of characters and intent of lines or scenes, you have messed up and need to fix your shit. Dub companies are not entitled to turning shows into things that they aren't! That's what they did with Z and it's what could happen to Super if they aren't kept in check.

[1345521]

This argument is subjetcive. I don't care about "respecting" that much of orginal intent of japeanse dub, as american dub we should be able to add our own taste and culture into the dub so it's more acessible and appealing to our culture group of whom we are advertising too.

Well that's just kind of close-minded, honestly. If you honestly think a Japanese show can only be accessible to Americans (which I might add are not the only demographic an English dub appeals to) with loads of rewrites, Americanization and cultural references removed or altered, there's not much I can really say to you.

This "Minority niche" are the ONLY NICHE you're seelling too. We aren't selling this to japeanse people, UK people, Latin american people so yeah.

What the fuck? No it isn't. The English dub fanbase is a niche for Dragon Ball. The group that exclusively prefers the old dubs and is aghast at the suggestion that others are better are an even more minuscule niche within that, who more than likely aren't going to buy Super anyway because they almost always exclusively watch Z and don't care about any other parts of the series.

And excuse me? Latin American and UK viewers never buy the English dub? Do you honestly think nobody in the UK, an English speaking country, wants to watch Dragon ball in English? The better part of this dub's recent criticism came from Ajay, from the UK, watching the dub and taking issue with it. He's not even a dub fan, just a hardcore fan in general, like most of this forum!

I feel that goes for ANY DUB, they should add their own twist and flavors to reflect the culture of whom they are advertising too,

No! We've been over this. Translation is to contextualize other culture's media to be more easily viewed from one's own perspective, not to erase it. That's why 4kids calling rice balls "jelly donuts" is a meme. That's why HFIL and the obfuscation of Frieza's personality and goddamn Chris Thorndyke holding a blank sign and Sanji smoking a lollipop are all brought up as examples of this shit.

that is why Z was very popular back in the early 2000s, it really appealed to a lot of americans who may not be anime or manga fans too.

No, Z was popular with kids because it aired on a children's TV network every single day at 5:00 in the evening and it was Dragon Ball fucking Z. Again, the dub could have been anything (and was tons of things, including several different casts with the show and movies considered) and people would have watched it because it's Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Z is fucking awesome.

If you want to get the real authentic version of whatever you're watching, THEN WATCH THE SHOW SUBBED. lol, it's not that hard.

As I said, that is not always an option, and even if was, there would always be people who prefer to watch in their native language, who should be getting the same experience. Why don't you go and condescend to my sister who can't read subtitles about how "it's not that hard" like you're doing to me right now?

Let people and things play roles, and don't try to conform everbody and everything into the same thing. Then things lessen its purpose.

It's not conformism to ask a translation to translate properly. Once you start losing the meaning of characters and intent of lines or scenes, you have messed up and need to fix your shit. Dub companies are not entitled to turning shows into things that they aren't! That's what they did with Z and it's what could happen to Super if they aren't kept in check.

Again, I say liberally as in not to mean that the dub should go out of its way to change everything, but change things as seem fit so they can make a better version of what the orginals did. Which is something Old Z dub did (And I found them extremly sucessful), which is something TOEI did with Db and Z (which again I found them scuessful) to toriyama manga (Now they could have followed the same scuesfful idea but decided to once again go the GT route and just made a worse version of GT with super while its potetianl manga it could have adapted is producing GOAT-work).
And people from other languages and regions..they have their own dub. I mean, critism from them isn't really substaniated unless YOUR TARGET base also shares their opinion. But again, funi is dubbing a show meant for elementary kids while having to appeal to older teengers and young adults and adults in general so they kinda may have to change things, but yeah some of their dub execution is bad BECAUSE of it being bad, not because it dosen't line up to toei.
It's "DBZ" Because of falconer and OG funi dub. that played a role, and if you think it played no role..then I can't say anything to you.
Yes, I may have been a little insentive, my apologies. But I stand bye my point, english dub should have the LIBERTY to change as they please in order to make a stronger product for their base. Not fulfilling the good will of toei. And to your sister points, if she can' read substitles THEN SHE WON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S SHE MISSING so to her the Old Z dub or whatever Maybe altered english dub will be the dub for that anime she knows WHICH IS FINE! lol, many people only watched db-Z (old funi dub)-gt and thats the dragon ball they know. So that sister example falls flat on its face because if she cant read subtitles, then she won't even know if the english dub is 'accurate" or not.

Point is, dub should have the liberyt to change as they please in order to make a stronger product. I got into dragon ball through Old z DUB, and there are more people like me.

[Shaddy]

Okay, you know what? I had a long-ass, angry deconstructive post written out here, but it obviously isn't gonna do any more good. Lemme get this back to the core essential ideals of why things are messed up here. It's gotten out of control and convoluted..

1. Foreign language dubbing companies are meant to translate an experience, meaning minimal alterations only where necessary. They do not have the authority to attempt changing the story, they are not entitled to alter anything but readability and comprehension in characters' speech, with attention to acting and timing. If Goku says something the story contradicts, fucking tough. Funimation is expendable. If Toei wanted to they could pluck Super's next TV license out of their hands and give it to Bang Zoom or Sentai Filmworks or fucking TFS or something.

2. Obviously any translation done is a change to the material itself, but there are very clear limits and most modern dubs stay within them pretty well. Anything that you have to quantify as making the show "better" or "worse" is already going too far, because you shouldn't have been thinking about it in the first place. This is why the only dubs you hear really massive amounts of negativity for are the ones that inject stuff that shouldn't be there, like the gamergate lines in hajimete no gal or the "patriarchal standards" or whatever bit in Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. Relatively mediocre but accurate dubs like One Punch Man or Attack on Titan don't have these issues. So why should we not hold Dragon Ball to these standards?

3. Saying "it's better" is a justification for nothing. You cannot quantifiably measure objective quality, but objective accuracy totally can. Plenty of people on both sides of the sub/dub fandom pay attention to what is similar and different about them, and when something is totally changed for no real reason, it falls on the behest of the people that made the decision. You're just using the vague and incorrect lenses of "well my version is better" and "well it's more popular" as a veil to hide the fact that the dub had no good reason to make the changes it made, because Funimation could have been anyone. They're not special, and they're not your friends, they're a business that distributes and translates anime and they aren't doing a satisfactory job with that second part (or the first, in several respects). People are perfectly justified in complaining when it would have been easier, no less successful, and way less controversial to leave stuff the way it was.

Bringing things back, I really do not have any actual ill will toward Sabat or even Funimation in general. They're just people who've gotten a bit more possessive with this big dumb series than they should've. I still enjoy the Dragon Ball dubs they've produced post-2006 or 2007, even ones laden with meme dialogue like Super. I mean I watch the show with my sister and dad because we like riffing on it, you think a line about donuts in a franchise we've been laughing at for years is gonna turn us away? But do not, I repeat do not act like anyone's lack of confidence or frustration with Funi's handling of the dub is a result of anyone but Funi themselves, or like it's unjustified just because you can overlook a show being altered.

Obviously me and these many others have very different priorities than you when it comes to dubbing, but that's only because Japanese media in English is only really defined by how it compares to Japanese media in Japanese, and as long as everyone doesn't speak Japanese, most of us would say it's more important to move closer to understanding the original intent than it is making something conventional or unrelated.

[Scsigs]

[spoiler]

I mean, there are definitely things to definitely take issue with in the dub, but I don't think line accuracy is much of one. If it's a line in the English script not working on its own, I can understand. If it's not keeping the tone of the original, I understand. I hate the Z dub for tonal inconsistencies & bad lines that don't even work in the dub's context most of the time. However, I think the way the Super dub's script is being written, the majority of the lines do work the majority of the time. Some things don't work & could've either been more accurate to the original, or changed to better fit the dub's context better. However, I think the dub is more often than not good. I especially like the wordings of most of the lines that they do to fit the lipflaps. English is a more diverse language than Japanese, since we have more words than them, so I like the flavoring they give the lines.

And just to get to Magetta's voice. Why do people care about this guy this much? Magetta is a very nothing character. He's a metal man from a planet of them. And? Toriyama literally introduced Magetta to be an obstacle for Vegeta in the U6 Arc. He has little personality & what's there are just extreme reactions to insults where he cries. That dude is ridiculed by Toriyama through the storytelling. Now, I don't know how Magetta's portrayed in the US Arc yet, but I doubt it's any more than that. The fact that he doesn't speak outside of that stupid "Cho-po-po-po" phrase is just indicative in this. Sabat most likely agrees, hence why they used text-to-speech for the dub to have him say random words. It's essentially the same thing in both contexts, since they serve the exact same purpose. Granted, both are weird & stupid, but for different reasons. I've said this before & I'll repeat it no matter how many times I have to. I remember when MasakoX said he felt bad for Magetta at a point in the sub due to the voice acting. Maybe that was the intent, but Magetta isn't a character that I feel bad for. If you pay attention to the way the scenes play out, you're meant to laugh at him, not sympathize with him. That's just how I interpreted that at least.

[/spoiler]
I LOVED old Z dub, but super's dub is okay. The audio presentation of their voice seems a little weird, it doesn't seem as natural as old z dub. But that probably had to do with falconer back ground music.

I mean, go ahead if you like that dub, but it's bad in terms of its translation & overall accuracy.

By the way, towards your other comment of people not being able to act in the 90s. Nope! No, they couldn't. When they started out, the voice actors couldn't act whatsoever. What you're probably remembering more are the redubs that they did for the 2007 DVDs that get reused for the releases after them. That was when the actors' performances to an at least passable level each. However, they can act nowadays, since it's second nature to them by now.

[1345521]

[spoiler]

I mean, there are definitely things to definitely take issue with in the dub, but I don't think line accuracy is much of one. If it's a line in the English script not working on its own, I can understand. If it's not keeping the tone of the original, I understand. I hate the Z dub for tonal inconsistencies & bad lines that don't even work in the dub's context most of the time. However, I think the way the Super dub's script is being written, the majority of the lines do work the majority of the time. Some things don't work & could've either been more accurate to the original, or changed to better fit the dub's context better. However, I think the dub is more often than not good. I especially like the wordings of most of the lines that they do to fit the lipflaps. English is a more diverse language than Japanese, since we have more words than them, so I like the flavoring they give the lines.

And just to get to Magetta's voice. Why do people care about this guy this much? Magetta is a very nothing character. He's a metal man from a planet of them. And? Toriyama literally introduced Magetta to be an obstacle for Vegeta in the U6 Arc. He has little personality & what's there are just extreme reactions to insults where he cries. That dude is ridiculed by Toriyama through the storytelling. Now, I don't know how Magetta's portrayed in the US Arc yet, but I doubt it's any more than that. The fact that he doesn't speak outside of that stupid "Cho-po-po-po" phrase is just indicative in this. Sabat most likely agrees, hence why they used text-to-speech for the dub to have him say random words. It's essentially the same thing in both contexts, since they serve the exact same purpose. Granted, both are weird & stupid, but for different reasons. I've said this before & I'll repeat it no matter how many times I have to. I remember when MasakoX said he felt bad for Magetta at a point in the sub due to the voice acting. Maybe that was the intent, but Magetta isn't a character that I feel bad for. If you pay attention to the way the scenes play out, you're meant to laugh at him, not sympathize with him. That's just how I interpreted that at least.

[/spoiler]
I LOVED old Z dub, but super's dub is okay. The audio presentation of their voice seems a little weird, it doesn't seem as natural as old z dub. But that probably had to do with falconer back ground music.

I mean, go ahead if you like that dub, but it's bad in terms of its translation & overall accuracy.

By the way, towards your other comment of people not being able to act in the 90s. Nope! No, they couldn't. When they started out, the voice actors couldn't act whatsoever. What you're probably remembering more are the redubs that they did for the 2007 DVDs that get reused for the releases after them. That was when the actors' performances to an at least passable level each. However, they can act nowadays, since it's second nature to them by now.

What do you mean "act"? Funi dub back in the day could act very well and produced some of the most boss lines in db history. They acted fine and are better WAY BETTER then they are today. I guess if "acting" means being nothing more then being non serious entertainment figures instead of also adding being figures on the tv that inspires youth...that good riddance to you. Because this convo is over. This is my issue with today's entertainment, WAY to much meme culture that has been embodied into it. Gone are the days where popular cartoons and show could actually take itself really seriously and meant to inspire. Now meme culture has eroded it into you're nothing but just mere entertainment, it takes away from being that much invested into the show, and makes things lose it's intrinsic value since it's nothing but "fake entertainment, don't take yourself seriously - "That's bad acting"". Ugh, such words so truly irritate.
This conversation is over. I'm starting to lose my cool when you say old funi dub can't "act" simply because there's not enough sillyness (even though funi dub did have its light hearted sillyness).
Hmph

[Forte224]

*big sigh* Had FUNimation just stuck to their translation and dubbing approach with Kai 1.0, the fanbase wouldn't have to be so split. Sadly, they haven't, and now people that liked Kai 1.0's dub are disappointed and the only people that are happy are the ones that like whatever FUNi throws out no matter what so long as the names Schemmel and Sabat are in the credits.

We could've all been happy, that's the part that continually disheartens me to this day. And if one more person tells me one more time that I'm just nitpicking, then I'll just tell you you're not critical enough and then we'll both have baseless, shallow responses toward one another that don't respect the other's feelings on the matter.

[EXBadguy]

My problem is with the overreaction. You wanna complain about that one simple line, fine. But calling it the worst dub ever because of it, really? After all of the good accuracy it had? Dub fans just need to just respect the dissenting opinion and move on while the sub fans just need to chill.

Shit like this is why I stay the hell away from the interwebz nowadays.

[Forte224]

My problem is with the overreaction. You wanna complain about that one simple line, fine. But calling it the worst dub ever because of it, really? After all of the good accuracy it had? Dub fans just need to just respect the dissenting opinion and move on while the sub fans just need to chill.

Shit like this is why I stay the hell away from the interwebz nowadays.

1. It's not "one simple line" it's several lines peppered through each and every episode that add up.

2. No one anywhere is calling this the worst dub ever. It's just your criticism filter exaggerating their opinions into over-the-top absolutes so that you feel good about not taking them seriously.

3. Why make it about dub fans and sub fans? That isn't all this is. I am indeed a major fan of the Japanese version these days, but that doesn't fuel my reasonings for criticising the dub. I just want an accurate dub in the vein of Kai 1.0. That's all I and many others wanted, and we all would've been happy with it. But no, FUNi continues to throw out less than they could and get away with it because FUNi can do no wrong apparently.

[EXBadguy]

My problem is with the overreaction. You wanna complain about that one simple line, fine. But calling it the worst dub ever because of it, really? After all of the good accuracy it had? Dub fans just need to just respect the dissenting opinion and move on while the sub fans just need to chill.

Shit like this is why I stay the hell away from the interwebz nowadays.

1. It's not "one simple line" it's several lines peppered through each and every episode that add up.

2. No one anywhere is calling this the worst dub ever. It's just your criticism filter exaggerating their opinions into over-the-top absolutes so that you feel good about not taking them seriously.

3. Why make it about dub fans and sub fans? That isn't all this is. I am indeed a major fan of the Japanese version these days, but that doesn't fuel my reasonings for criticising the dub. I just want an accurate dub in the vein of Kai 1.0. That's all I and many others wanted, and we all would've been happy with it. But no, FUNi continues to throw out less than they could and get away with it because FUNi can do no wrong apparently.

1. Id argue that none of those changed the tone and story like the old Z dub did occasionally.

2. Maybe not here but in other places like Twitter, Tumblr. I can't find them now but I remember seeing responses like that last week.

3. And lastly, why, cuz that's what it is boiling down to now. Hardcore dub fans accepting anything while the hardcore sub fans nitpick everything the dub does. Not saying that you do it (if you are, I couldnt care less). NOBODY is stopping you from criticizing the dub