"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

[DB_Fan1991]

No new episode next week according to the next episode preview shown on Toonami during Kai.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Holy shit Marsters can yell! Zamasu's screaming while getting sucked in by the Mafuba was awesome. I can't wait to hear him in Episode 66 where he's totally lost his cool.

[SupremeKai25]

Fused Zamasu sounded so menacing and imposing. His voice was so soothing and divine, truly worthy of the ultimate God. All hail Zamasu.

Damnit, now I cannot wait for the next episode. Which, apparently, will not be next week. Sigh... Also, that preview was so chilling! "Stare in awe! I am justice incarnate!"

Well guys, the day has finally come. The English birth of Merged/Fused/Whatever Zamasu. And I know SupremeKai25 is stoked about this.

You can bet your house on the fact that I am. I have yet to watch the entire episode but just that ending scene was enough for me!

[Kataphrut]

Haven't had a chance to catch the latest ep but I have seen the clip of Goku Black pulling the scythe out and ho-ly shit was it good. The monologue was well-delivered, then we get to the "stabbing" and it's just this frenzied growl mixed in with manic laughter. Can you believe there was a time we thought Schemmel was going to botch this?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

No new episode next week according to the next episode preview shown on Toonami during Kai.

We haven't had a single break this arc so that's fine with me! Plus rather have a break between #64&65 than 65&66.

[Cetra]

All hail Zamasu!

[TRIZACK]

Marster's acting during the Mafuba scene was....God-like . Way better than I expected now he just needs to nail the "SON GOKU!!!!!" scene.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Haven't had a chance to catch the latest ep but I have seen the clip of Goku Black pulling the scythe out and ho-ly shit was it good. The monologue was well-delivered, then we get to the "stabbing" and it's just this frenzied growl mixed in with manic laughter. Can you believe there was a time we thought Schemmel was going to botch this?

Yes! He's quietly gone about his business, after being mixed on Rosé debut in #56 I gotta say he's killed it ever since.

Sad this is the end of Black though such an iconic villain in such a short amount time, remember when people were worried about "evil Goku"? Or Black having pink hair will look stupid?

[Fionordequester]

Sad this is the end of Black though such an iconic villain in such a short amount time, remember when people were worried about "evil Goku"? Or Black having pink hair will look stupid?

Sure do. I was ONE of them !

[Artorias]

Haven't had a chance to catch the latest ep but I have seen the clip of Goku Black pulling the scythe out and ho-ly shit was it good. The monologue was well-delivered, then we get to the "stabbing" and it's just this frenzied growl mixed in with manic laughter. Can you believe there was a time we thought Schemmel was going to botch this?

Yes! He's quietly gone about his business, after being mixed on Rosé debut in #56 I gotta say he's killed it ever since.

Sad this is the end of Black though such an iconic villain in such a short amount time, remember when people were worried about "evil Goku"? Or Black having pink hair will look stupid?

It's honestly an incredible achievement that I feel like people don't give Super enough credit for. They SOMEHOW SOMEWAY not only made an "evil" Goku not feel like pandering bullshit, but he even became a classic character that people put right up there as one of the best villains in the whole franchise. That is a true miracle. It's just too bad that his origin story ends up making no sense, because he'd be damn near perfect otherwise.

In regards to Schemmel, I still feel like his performance was more inconsistent than I would have liked. He NAILS certain moments like the above mentioned scythe scene, but there's plenty of other scenes where he hams up the fancy shmancy British accent way too much and it just becomes cringe city. When he was on with the character, he was ON, but when he was off...he was pretty far off honestly. He's still my boi, but I really think attempting to copy Zamasu's voice was a mistake, because he sounded damn near perfect in pre-Rose base form early on.

[Kogu 87]

It's just too bad that his origin story ends up making no sense, because he'd be damn near perfect otherwise.

My ask, what about his origin story does not make sense to you ?

[Scsigs]

It's just too bad that his origin story ends up making no sense, because he'd be damn near perfect otherwise.

His origin story goes as follows:

1. When he was still in his own body, he found out about Goku after the U6 tournament through Gowasu watching GodTube.
2. He asked that all-knowing (can't remember his name & I can't be bothered to look it up) dude about Goku.
3. He killed Gowasu & stole his Supreme Kai earrings.
4. He gathered the super Dragon Balls & switched bodies with Goku, whom he then promptly killed in his own body, as well as Chichi & Goten.
5. He stole a Time Ring & travelled to Trunks' timeline.
6. He teamed up with his alternate counterpart & they got that version immortality, then they killed all of the other gods & started their rampage on the whole of creation.

Shortly thereafter, Trunks travelled back to the other timeline & subsequently created another timeline separate from the one Black originated from, where they killed Zamasu & saved Gowasu. Simple. It's not unlike Cell's origin, where he came from a 3rd timeline where they managed to kill the Androids with the remote, then he did the same in his timeline. It's not hard to understand & makes a lot of sense.

[Artorias]

My ask, what about his origin story does not make sense to you ?

It's just too bad that his origin story ends up making no sense, because he'd be damn near perfect otherwise.

His origin story goes as follows:

1. When he was still in his own body, he found out about Goku after the U6 tournament through Gowasu watching GodTube.
2. He asked that all-knowing (can't remember his name & I can't be bothered to look it up) dude about Goku.
3. He killed Gowasu & stole his Supreme Kai earrings.
4. He gathered the super Dragon Balls & switched bodies with Goku, whom he then promptly killed in his own body, as well as Chichi & Goten.
5. He stole a Time Ring & travelled to Trunks' timeline.
6. He teamed up with his alternate counterpart & they got that version immortality, then they killed all of the other gods & started their rampage on the whole of creation.

Shortly thereafter, Trunks travelled back to the other timeline & subsequently created another timeline separate from the one Black originated from, where they killed Zamasu & saved Gowasu. Simple. It's not unlike Cell's origin, where he came from a 3rd timeline where they managed to kill the Androids with the remote, then he did the same in his timeline. It's not hard to understand & makes a lot of sense.

I don't want to come off as an arrogant ass or anything, but I've been through this conversation with numerous people at this point, and frankly everyone thinks they understand his origin, and they lay out something similar to what you just did. But honestly, what you just laid out WOULD make sense, if that's all there was to it. Trust me, I understand all of what you just listed, but there's on detail that everyone seemingly doesn't catch.

The key piece here that makes it make no sense is: how exactly did the Zamasu that would go onto be Black get away with killing Gowasu in one timeline, but not ours? Keep in mind, he's the Zamasu that Goku came and fought, who then went on to go insane and kill Gowasu, and set everything in motion. But...HOW? We're meant to believe that in one timeline, Beerus and Goku just never showed up to Hakai him, and yet in "our" timeline they did? Why would the two timelines be any different? There was no time traveling that should've "split" the timeline.

Basically, it's a time loop that doesn't even work. It's a broken time loop. Trunks came back to cause Goku to go fight Zamasu, which caused Zamasu to kill Gowasu and become Black. But again, there's simply no reason that he would get the chance to become Black with zero interference in one timeline, but not ours. There's no reason Beerus didn't show up to Hakai him in that timeline the same as he did in our time.

I hope this made sense. I've frankly never heard anyone be able to explain this, and trust me I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong on this.

[nato25]

The fact that zamasu and black are the same person from the same timeline will never make sense to me. I'm such a hardcore fan and I hate that I cant understand that aspect of the series and I hate it more that someone wrote it that way. Why couldn't zamasu just be from another timeline...

But to get back on topic, my doubts from XV2 on Masters as Zamasu are finally squashed (to be fair the awful audio mastering in XV2 didnt help). Great performance.

This was a very strong episode for the dub voices all round really. Bulma, zamasu, black, trunks and Piccolo in that classic home video scene (although I was hoping they'd add some dialogue for Piccolo like "ahhh is this thing on?") It is a great episode in general in my opinion but the dub helped solidify it.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

The fact that zamasu and black are the same person from the same timeline will never make sense to me. I'm such a hardcore fan and I hate that I cant understand that aspect of the series and I hate it more that someone wrote it that way. Why couldn't zamasu just be from another timeline...

But he is from another timeline... isn't he? Black is from the present timeline that we know and Future Zamasu is from Future Trunks's timeline.

The one thing that I never understood was how Goku's fight with Zamasu was what influenced the creation of Black, but the whole reason why Goku met Zamasu was to learn more about Black after fighting him in Episode 50. So before Goku Black was a thing, what influenced that Zamasu to swap bodies with Black? Presumably that Zamasu had never fought Goku so there was no possible way he had known about him unless if he watched him on KamiTube. The anime implies that Zamasu and Goku fought before he became Goku Black but there's no way that could've happened. It's really confusing and one of my biggest gripes with the arc.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The fact that zamasu and black are the same person from the same timeline will never make sense to me. I'm such a hardcore fan and I hate that I cant understand that aspect of the series and I hate it more that someone wrote it that way. Why couldn't zamasu just be from another timeline...

But he is from another timeline... isn't he? Black is from the present timeline that we know and Future Zamasu is from Future Trunks's timeline.

The one thing that I never understood was how Goku's fight with Zamasu was what influenced the creation of Black, but the whole reason why Goku met Zamasu was to learn more about Black after fighting him in Episode 50. So before Goku Black was a thing, what influenced that Zamasu to swap bodies with Black? Presumably that Zamasu had never fought Goku so there was no possible way he had known about him unless if he watched him on KamiTube. The anime implies that Zamasu and Goku fought before he became Goku Black but there's no way that could've happened. It's really confusing and one of my biggest gripes with the arc.

The way I see it is Goku and Zamasu were always destined to fight on U10, the whole Trunks warning about Black just sped that process up. Remember Whis already had an eye on Zamasu and that he was a fighter Supreme Kai so it wouldn't be out the realms of possibility that Whis eventually would have took Goku to meet him.

[Scsigs]

The key piece here that makes it make no sense is: how exactly did the Zamasu that would go onto be Black get away with killing Gowasu in one timeline, but not ours? Keep in mind, he's the Zamasu that Goku came and fought, who then went on to go insane and kill Gowasu, and set everything in motion. But...HOW? We're meant to believe that in one timeline, Beerus and Goku just never showed up to Hakai him, and yet in "our" timeline they did? Why would the two timelines be any different? There was no time traveling that should've "split" the timeline.

Basically, it's a time loop that doesn't even work. It's a broken time loop. Trunks came back to cause Goku to go fight Zamasu, which caused Zamasu to kill Gowasu and become Black. But again, there's simply no reason that he would get the chance to become Black with zero interference in one timeline, but not ours. There's no reason Beerus didn't show up to Hakai him in that timeline the same as he did in our time.

I hope this made sense. I've frankly never heard anyone be able to explain this, and trust me I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong on this.

See, that's the central difference between the 2 timelines that Black comes from & the one Zamasu was killed in. In the timeline Black comes from, Zamasu only saw Goku fight on GodTube, but that was the only thing he need. Keep in mind that his curiosity was sparked by seeing Goku use SSB. All that happened afterwards for Black was that he was continually told by Gowasu that stuff about mortals like what Gowasu explained to him about those fighting aliens on that planet. That only drove Zamasu to be more willing to do what he did. He just bided his time to wait for the super Dragon Balls to be active once again. Note that Goku didn't know about Zamasu in this timeline, since he didn't recognize him after the switch.
Trunks going back in time only furthered Zamasu to kick his plan into action, since he got a first-hand taste of Goku's power when they fought, since they had a feeling he was like Black. In the original version of events, we don't know when he killed Gowasu, but we can assume it was right before he went to go wish on the Dragon Balls. You're right in that he'd probably get in trouble for killing him, but if it was on the day he was going to enact his plan, then the timing wouldn't lead to him getting caught. I mean, just look at Trunks' timeline. That Zamasu still wanted to kill Gowasu, but the catalyst for doing so; Goku, wasn't around for him to use for a plan, so he just waited, most likely, until he was a Supreme Kai to enact his justice. See?

[DHM211]

See, that's the central difference between the 2 timelines that Black comes from & the one Zamasu was killed in. In the timeline Black comes from, Zamasu only saw Goku fight on GodTube, but that was the only thing he need.

Goku Black fought Goku in his timeline as well.
https://youtu.be/mRmn5qKDzCY?t=39
Its even the same exact scene from episode 53.

[nato25]

The fact that zamasu and black are the same person from the same timeline will never make sense to me. I'm such a hardcore fan and I hate that I cant understand that aspect of the series and I hate it more that someone wrote it that way. Why couldn't zamasu just be from another timeline...

But he is from another timeline... isn't he? Black is from the present timeline that we know and Future Zamasu is from Future Trunks's timeline.

The one thing that I never understood was how Goku's fight with Zamasu was what influenced the creation of Black, but the whole reason why Goku met Zamasu was to learn more about Black after fighting him in Episode 50. So before Goku Black was a thing, what influenced that Zamasu to swap bodies with Black? Presumably that Zamasu had never fought Goku so there was no possible way he had known about him unless if he watched him on KamiTube. The anime implies that Zamasu and Goku fought before he became Goku Black but there's no way that could've happened. It's really confusing and one of my biggest gripes with the arc.

Sorry I was referring to the Zamasu that Beerus destroys. So 'our' timeline zamasu that gets hakaied is also Black. That's where I lose all understanding. You can't just say time ring and make everything OK, how are you even somewhere else if you are getting destroyed by Beerus?

The Zamasu that just merged with Black with is Trunks timeline Zamasu.

For me if the Zamasu that becomes Black was just from a third timeline Id be a lot happier.

[Scsigs]

See, that's the central difference between the 2 timelines that Black comes from & the one Zamasu was killed in. In the timeline Black comes from, Zamasu only saw Goku fight on GodTube, but that was the only thing he need.

Goku Black fought Goku in his timeline as well.
https://youtu.be/mRmn5qKDzCY?t=39
Its even the same exact scene from episode 53.

Huh. Ok. So, then the difference would be how long he waited to kill Gowasu. I can't imagine that they'd've killed him if he didn't kill Gowasu. Hell, maybe they didn't visit them a second time. We aren't given enough information. Again, this is consistent with Cell's timeline too, since he said that his timeline was affected by Trunks going back in time, which doesn't make sense. Slight inconsistencies that you can either ignore, or come up with an explanation. I'm assuming that the way I explained it was what Toriyama was going with, but the anime staff screwed it up. Obviously, there's a difference in their timeline & it's easily explainable, but the anime staff didn't do so.

On another note, found a good video dissecting Goku Black's accent in the dubs of Super's content. It's pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAHsxVkn16M&t=924s