"Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:30 am

Nia wrote:
Sailor Haumea wrote:So is this dub any good...?
Best English dub of Dragon Ball we've had since the Ocean dub of the first three movies by far, despite some of the typical dubisms and the censorship.
Had its flaws here and there for sure, but definitely captured the spirit of the Japanese version. I certainly never found myself telling the characters to shut up like I do with a certain other English dub of the franchise.
Elaborate, if you would.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:11 pm

Can't Bang Zoom! Entertaiment offer the episodes they dubbed on their own website via streaming? I'd really like to watch and hear this dub in high quality.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:06 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:Can't Bang Zoom! Entertaiment offer the episodes they dubbed on their own website via streaming? I'd really like to watch and hear this dub in high quality.
They can't. FUNi have all streaming, digital download, home video and broadcast rights for DBS in NA including Canada, which rules out any potential of an Ocean dub too.

The BZ dub can only be legally shown in Asia.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:58 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:Bang Zoom's Gokû had a Masako-feel to it with his naive, happy-go-lucky voice rather than the somewhat deepened Schemmel Gokû and as for Vegeta, it kind of resembles Horikawa's voice in English although BZ Vegeta also appeared to have tried to impersonate Chris Sabat's Vegeta at the same time.
I can hear Nozawa's influence in both Schemmel and Lang's performances. Schemmel's comes more naturally because he is so used to Goku's character now, especially in Funimation's Super dub. He sounds exactly as Goku should in his happy-go-lucky state. I think Lang gets that, but his Goku just lacks the passion it should have. And Schemmel is deep when he needs to be, much like Nozawa when playing serious Goku. Tang's Vegeta was imitating Sabat to begin with, but he improved quite quickly and made it his own with the smoother voice.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:56 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Nia wrote:
Sailor Haumea wrote:So is this dub any good...?
Best English dub of Dragon Ball we've had since the Ocean dub of the first three movies by far, despite some of the typical dubisms and the censorship.
Had its flaws here and there for sure, but definitely captured the spirit of the Japanese version. I certainly never found myself telling the characters to shut up like I do with a certain other English dub of the franchise.
Elaborate, if you would.
I'm pretty sure I've already elaborated on this multiple times, including while speaking with you, but...

The first three movies from the Ocean dub are still the closest we ever got to an accurate dub. It has a few flaws, but it's on point otherwise. Great casting, superb directing, and very few deviations from the source material. It also clearly put a lot of time and money into this as the production values were considerably scaled up for the time, as it eclipsed the audio quality of the TV dub which was also no slouch.
The BZ dub, despite having dubisms and that nasty censorship, retains the same spirit as the Japanese version. The characters are mostly intact, the casting is considerably better, and even the voices taking cues from the FUNI dub are pretty much better actors with a few exceptions. It did suffer from some other issues regarding audio mixing and whatnot, but considering how this was clearly on a shoestring budget, it's impressive how well they made it work.

Meanwhile, FUNImation continues to use stupid pop-culture references, alters the characters personalities (or excises them entirely), and the English scripts sound flat for everyone who isn't Freeza, rewrites stuff to just be plain idiotic, and whenever someone calls them out they hide behind the excuse of "localization" despite the fact that is NOT WHAT THAT WORD MEANS. I swear, nobody can be bothered to do a second take, their audio quality really isn't that much better than the BZ dub's (not that FUNI has ever been very good at audio mixing), and all of it makes a huge, obnoxious mess.

To put it bluntly, screw FUNImation's bastardization and the "localization" it came in on. It's not accurate, it's not true even in spirit, and it's essentially a glorified 4Kids dub. They've had 20 years to get their shit straight, and yet they STILL keep screwing up constantly, and I don't see why when this has been discussed to death how I need to elaborate on what is an obviously cheap, half-assed, bird-brained dub that is still dumbed down because they're under the impression the western fanbase has the mental capacity of a toddler and can't comprehend the series if it's not simplified to the point of scrubbing the soul of the series out.
They've had repeated chances to get better cast members (and in some cases did, particularly for Freeza), yet they refuse to replace people who were obviously miscast in the role for whatever reason. In some cases, many of the VAs have actually become worse.

There are good aspects to the FUNI dub, but honestly, the majority of it is laughable, and if it were any other franchise treated this way, I'm pretty sure the fans would scream bloody murder at it.

Hopefully I won't have to repeat this for a third time, because it was tiresome before.

tl;dr - It's because FUNImation's dub outright sucks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Sailor Haumea » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:00 pm

Nia wrote:
Scsigs wrote:
Nia wrote: Best English dub of Dragon Ball we've had since the Ocean dub of the first three movies by far, despite some of the typical dubisms and the censorship.
Had its flaws here and there for sure, but definitely captured the spirit of the Japanese version. I certainly never found myself telling the characters to shut up like I do with a certain other English dub of the franchise.
Elaborate, if you would.
I'm pretty sure I've already elaborated on this multiple times, including while speaking with you, but...

The first three movies from the Ocean dub are still the closest we ever got to an accurate dub. It has a few flaws, but it's on point otherwise. Great casting, superb directing, and very few deviations from the source material. It also clearly put a lot of time and money into this as the production values were considerably scaled up for the time, as it eclipsed the audio quality of the TV dub which was also no slouch.
The BZ dub, despite having dubisms and that nasty censorship, retains the same spirit as the Japanese version. The characters are mostly intact, the casting is considerably better, and even the voices taking cues from the FUNI dub are pretty much better actors with a few exceptions. It did suffer from some other issues regarding audio mixing and whatnot, but considering how this was clearly on a shoestring budget, it's impressive how well they made it work.

Meanwhile, FUNImation continues to use stupid pop-culture references, alters the characters personalities (or excises them entirely), and the English scripts sound flat for everyone who isn't Freeza, rewrites stuff to just be plain idiotic, and whenever someone calls them out they hide behind the excuse of "localization" despite the fact that is NOT WHAT THAT WORD MEANS. I swear, nobody can be bothered to do a second take, their audio quality really isn't that much better than the BZ dub's (not that FUNI has ever been very good at audio mixing), and all of it makes a huge, obnoxious mess.

To put it bluntly, screw FUNImation's bastardization and the "localization" it came in on. It's not accurate, it's not true even in spirit, and it's essentially a glorified 4Kids dub. They've had 20 years to get their shit straight, and yet they STILL keep screwing up constantly, and I don't see why when this has been discussed to death how I need to elaborate on what is an obviously cheap, half-assed, bird-brained dub that is still dumbed down because they're under the impression the western fanbase has the mental capacity of a toddler and can't comprehend the series if it's not simplified to the point of scrubbing the soul of the series out.
They've had repeated chances to get better cast members (and in some cases did, particularly for Freeza), yet they refuse to replace people who were obviously miscast in the role for whatever reason. In some cases, many of the VAs have actually become worse.

There are good aspects to the FUNI dub, but honestly, the majority of it is laughable, and if it were any other franchise treated this way, I'm pretty sure the fans would scream bloody murder at it.

Hopefully I won't have to repeat this for a third time, because it was tiresome before.

tl;dr - It's because FUNImation's dub outright sucks.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:58 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:They can't. FUNi have all streaming, digital download, home video and broadcast rights for DBS in NA including Canada, which rules out any potential of an Ocean dub too.

The BZ dub can only be legally shown in Asia.
Dammit. So the only way to acquire Bang Zoom Super and Ocean Dub Kai is by pirating without the chance to owning it legally, at all. :(

I'd love to support these two dubs so much.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:06 am

Nia wrote:I'm pretty sure I've already elaborated on this multiple times, including while speaking with you, but...
If you did, I can't remember.
Nia wrote:The first three movies from the Ocean dub are still the closest we ever got to an accurate dub. It has a few flaws, but it's on point otherwise. Great casting, superb directing, and very few deviations from the source material. It also clearly put a lot of time and money into this as the production values were considerably scaled up for the time, as it eclipsed the audio quality of the TV dub which was also no slouch.
The BZ dub, despite having dubisms and that nasty censorship, retains the same spirit as the Japanese version. The characters are mostly intact, the casting is considerably better, and even the voices taking cues from the FUNI dub are pretty much better actors with a few exceptions. It did suffer from some other issues regarding audio mixing and whatnot, but considering how this was clearly on a shoestring budget, it's impressive how well they made it work.
I have yet to hear much of the original Ocean dub, not that I doubt the cast's talents. I've heard that the uncut movies they did were good, but they aren't available anywhere except probably torrents or eBay. Maybe someday I'll check them out out of curiosity, but then again, I'd need reasons to watch those movies again with any dub, let alone an alternate, more accurate for the time, dub from around 20 years ago.
The original Ocean cast dubbed Z episodes, however, are ones I have, legit, no interest in seeing because of censorship cuts, lines that make no sense either because they reference something the character(s) shouldn't be ("Too bad it's Sunday. The mall would've been filled tomorrow."), or just outright inaccurate lines (Goku thinking that Vegeta was the one who killed his grandfather, which, frankly, is even too stupid for him), an incomplete dub because they skipped over a chunk of episodes to catch up to FUNi on top of that, or just other stupidity ("Look! I can see their parachutes, they're okay", "Oh no! They took out the cargo robot!"). You seem to think of the Ocean dub of Z (for the series) as I do the Yugioh dub. Good cast & decent production values, but it really could've been better for the time, at least I'm assuming that last part. I mean, nothing against the cast, but I'll take a better dub with actors I've appreciated for years now.
I've heard the Bang Zoom dub &, frankly, I haven't been impressed with the actors. A lot of them come off as serviceable at best, while others aren't how I see the characters being voiced, even taking the FUNi cast out of the equation. It's, ultimately a dub I'm not interested in, compounded by what you just mentioned, but also that Toei went with a small studio in California to do the dub rather than Ocean, a studio in the Philippines, or even just exporting FUNi's dub like other countries are getting. It wouldn't even be a big thing to do that either, since FUNi aren't even against recording censored dialogue for TV airings, since they have the uncut dubs for home releases. I'm willing to bet that there's fans in Southeast Asia that are confused as to why FUNi's dub wasn't exported to their countries, since it's already the most widely distributed dub & is likely to be redistributed as long as the show is distributed in English-speaking countries. The fact that this dub was supposed to run for only 52 episodes doesn't help.
Nia wrote:Meanwhile, FUNImation continues to use stupid pop-culture references, alters the characters personalities (or excises them entirely), and the English scripts sound flat for everyone who isn't Freeza, rewrites stuff to just be plain idiotic, and whenever someone calls them out they hide behind the excuse of "localization" despite the fact that is NOT WHAT THAT WORD MEANS. I swear, nobody can be bothered to do a second take, their audio quality really isn't that much better than the BZ dub's (not that FUNI has ever been very good at audio mixing), and all of it makes a huge, obnoxious mess.
I challenge you to find me, from the uncut dubs, of Kai or Super where they made a stupid pop cultural reference or altered character personalities to an extent that is both out of character &/or transforms the characters into completely different people. I've watched through Kai several times & the only references I've seen them make are light references to Team Four Star. Other than that, either the references flew over my head, or you're just making shit up here. I could believe it if it was Z we're talking about, or even if this was the FUNimation of the early 2000s, but I've seen many of their modern dubs & they're perfectly in-line with the Japanese in terms of translation. Even DB & GT didn't repeat a lot of the mistakes Z did. And if you're gonna bring up Goku, in the newer dubs, they actually go out of their way to make Goku more like he was in Japanese in the dub, which I'm not exactly against. And if you are, are we talking goku's speech patterns, Goku's dialogue on a series by series basis, or Goku's character as a whole, because I'll share something with you...Even Toriyama forgets how he originally wrote Goku, even when he says he intended for Goku to be more selfish & the anime staff for Super write Goku like he's from DBZ Abridged rather than his original characterization, even from the Buu Saga, which is plagued by so many problems outside of Goku's characterization already.
And "flat scripts for everyone besides Freeza"? What? I've heard criticisms, & even have stated several of my own, that their modern scripts seem to use a thesaurus or are overly wordy to match the lipflaps, but never that they're flat. Is this in comparison to the subs on their home releases, Crunchyroll's, or fansubs? Because if you're comparing to one of those, every translator & script writer has their own styles & shortcuts that they use regularly, or styles of translation, so I don't know if scripts being flat is particularly a criticism that makes sense for the dubs. I've seen someone say that FUNi's Kai scripts were like the Z scripts, just changed a bit, but I highly doubt that's the case. If there are lines in the original Z dub that are like Kai's, then good on them for getting a translation right, but from what I've seen there are still more bad translations than there are good ones in that dub. FUNi's newer dub scripts are as accurate as they've ever been, the cast is at the top of their game, & the series is in good hands. I don't doubt that Bang Zoom had decently accurate scripts, but from what I've heard & seen of it, the direction of the cast & some awkward scripting keeps it from being good outside of snark bait. ANd, I don't like inaccurate dubs. I prefer my dubs to be as accurate as possible, but there's more to dubbing than just an accurate script, which I believe you're aware of.
I mean, Freeza does get great dialogue, but it's not like the other characters are slouches. It might be Chris Ayres' awesome performance that puts it up there, which is why he's the best English Frieza by far. Like, I could see Derek Stephen Prince working, but from the clips I've heard of his take on the character, he both tries way too hard to make Frieza menacing &/or doesn't understand the kind of performance needed for the role, which is weird since he's also the Digimon Emperor, or he got lousy direction, but I digress.
And, I've NEVER heard them hiding behind localization as an excuse for bad dubs. I've seen Sean Schemmel badly explain how he's voicing Goku Black & hide behind "artistic license" in a way that seems to go out of his way to have it make less sense, but never that.
Nia wrote:To put it bluntly, screw FUNImation's bastardization and the "localization" it came in on. It's not accurate, it's not true even in spirit, and it's essentially a glorified 4Kids dub. They've had 20 years to get their shit straight, and yet they STILL keep screwing up constantly, and I don't see why when this has been discussed to death how I need to elaborate on what is an obviously cheap, half-assed, bird-brained dub that is still dumbed down because they're under the impression the western fanbase has the mental capacity of a toddler and can't comprehend the series if it's not simplified to the point of scrubbing the soul of the series out.
They've had repeated chances to get better cast members (and in some cases did, particularly for Freeza), yet they refuse to replace people who were obviously miscast in the role for whatever reason. In some cases, many of the VAs have actually become worse.
You have yet to actually watch Kai & Super with FUNi's dubbing, rather than looking for flaws, which I get that you need to do that for dubs, but it sounds to me as if you weren't legitimately giving them chances. The old dubs were hindered by the fact that they made them for TV rather than home media first. Nowadays, they make the dub for the direct to DVD market, THAT'S where you could make comparisons to 4Kids, but anything else is just unfair to both companies. "Dumb things down"? If you actually watch any of their modern dubs, they never dumb things down. You are saying things that simply aren't true, sorry. "Cheap"? Considering that FUNi had access to a higher budget than during the Z days & had a higher talent pool at their disposal, the fact that Sabat opted NOT to voice every character in Kai again that didn't have a different VA already, on top of them flying in many of the mainstay actors that now live in California, then hiring James Marsters & Brian Drummond, I'd hardly call them cheap, or half-assed, since the direction is spot-on for what is required & the script in on-point. "Bird-brained" isn't even a criticism I think you can call the dubs either, considering the dubs are made for an older audience than stupid children. If you think it's that, I think you're questioning the source material over the dub's translation & not realizing it. Let's be honest, though, Dragon Ball is a franchise predicated on fights & adventure. It's also written by a gag manga writer who loves to have stupid jokes & fuck with the audience when he wants, which he's never been afraid to do. There's more legit things to be mad at Dragon Ball for than a dub, good or bad. It's entertaining, but it never aspires to be Breaking Bad-level deep the majority of the time.
Nia wrote:There are good aspects to the FUNI dub, but honestly, the majority of it is laughable, and if it were any other franchise treated this way, I'm pretty sure the fans would scream bloody murder at it.

Hopefully I won't have to repeat this for a third time, because it was tiresome before.

tl;dr - It's because FUNImation's dub outright sucks.
I mean, you don't have to repeat all this info again, since it's here, but if I have to say anything, I think you maybe expect the wrong things at this point & you're making claims & comparisons that don't make a lot of sense, or comparisons I've seen people make, but had an entirely different attitude towards. I'm really doubting anyone would really mind what they do in the current dubs to any other franchise (which, they do in other FUNi dubs, BTW), considering many people already make comparisons to the new characters' voices in both languages. If you look at the Super dub thread, we have discussions on the newer voices & performances all the time over there.
I mean, I, honestly, don't see your opinions, not only because I don't agree, but because I watch dubs over Japanese versions when available, but with the subs for the Japanese versions, & I've, honestly, never seen any mistranslations, miscasts, or anything else for the modern Dragon Ball dubs that weren't already there in the Japanese dubs. I mean, have your opinions, sure, but either you haven't given the dubs their fair shake, or you just don't care. I say this as a Dragon Ball fan & a dub fan, as well as someone who implores accurate dubs. The modern DB dubs by FUNimation are great. The castings, scripts, direction & other things have been on-point since 2010 & the crew at the studio care about the material they're dubbing. They have worked hard to right the wrongs of the past dubs & if anyone can't see that, I don't know what to say. Like the alternate dubs as much as you want, no one can deny those facts. It would be foolish to. The Bang Zoom dub had a long way to go & high standards to meet, which I don't think it did. The fact that several of the actors went with trying to voice match the FUNi cast rather than be original pretty much shows that they either didn't take the dub as seriously as they should've, or were trying too hard. Had this dub not get quietly cancelled, I bet the actors would've settled into their roles more, & their Goku wouldn't sound like Morty Smith anymore, but I can't see liking the dub over FUNi's, sorry.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nia » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:16 am

Scsigs wrote:
Nia wrote:I'm pretty sure I've already elaborated on this multiple times, including while speaking with you, but...
If you did, I can't remember.
Nia wrote:The first three movies from the Ocean dub are still the closest we ever got to an accurate dub. It has a few flaws, but it's on point otherwise. Great casting, superb directing, and very few deviations from the source material. It also clearly put a lot of time and money into this as the production values were considerably scaled up for the time, as it eclipsed the audio quality of the TV dub which was also no slouch.
The BZ dub, despite having dubisms and that nasty censorship, retains the same spirit as the Japanese version. The characters are mostly intact, the casting is considerably better, and even the voices taking cues from the FUNI dub are pretty much better actors with a few exceptions. It did suffer from some other issues regarding audio mixing and whatnot, but considering how this was clearly on a shoestring budget, it's impressive how well they made it work.
I have yet to hear much of the original Ocean dub, not that I doubt the cast's talents. I've heard that the uncut movies they did were good, but they aren't available anywhere except probably torrents or eBay. Maybe someday I'll check them out out of curiosity, but then again, I'd need reasons to watch those movies again with any dub, let alone an alternate, more accurate for the time, dub from around 20 years ago.
The original Ocean cast dubbed Z episodes, however, are ones I have, legit, no interest in seeing because of censorship cuts, lines that make no sense either because they reference something the character(s) shouldn't be ("Too bad it's Sunday. The mall would've been filled tomorrow."), or just outright inaccurate lines (Goku thinking that Vegeta was the one who killed his grandfather, which, frankly, is even too stupid for him), an incomplete dub because they skipped over a chunk of episodes to catch up to FUNi on top of that, or just other stupidity ("Look! I can see their parachutes, they're okay", "Oh no! They took out the cargo robot!"). You seem to think of the Ocean dub of Z (for the series) as I do the Yugioh dub. Good cast & decent production values, but it really could've been better for the time, at least I'm assuming that last part. I mean, nothing against the cast, but I'll take a better dub with actors I've appreciated for years now.
I've heard the Bang Zoom dub &, frankly, I haven't been impressed with the actors. A lot of them come off as serviceable at best, while others aren't how I see the characters being voiced, even taking the FUNi cast out of the equation. It's, ultimately a dub I'm not interested in, compounded by what you just mentioned, but also that Toei went with a small studio in California to do the dub rather than Ocean, a studio in the Philippines, or even just exporting FUNi's dub like other countries are getting. It wouldn't even be a big thing to do that either, since FUNi aren't even against recording censored dialogue for TV airings, since they have the uncut dubs for home releases. I'm willing to bet that there's fans in Southeast Asia that are confused as to why FUNi's dub wasn't exported to their countries, since it's already the most widely distributed dub & is likely to be redistributed as long as the show is distributed in English-speaking countries. The fact that this dub was supposed to run for only 52 episodes doesn't help.
Nia wrote:Meanwhile, FUNImation continues to use stupid pop-culture references, alters the characters personalities (or excises them entirely), and the English scripts sound flat for everyone who isn't Freeza, rewrites stuff to just be plain idiotic, and whenever someone calls them out they hide behind the excuse of "localization" despite the fact that is NOT WHAT THAT WORD MEANS. I swear, nobody can be bothered to do a second take, their audio quality really isn't that much better than the BZ dub's (not that FUNI has ever been very good at audio mixing), and all of it makes a huge, obnoxious mess.
I challenge you to find me, from the uncut dubs, of Kai or Super where they made a stupid pop cultural reference or altered character personalities to an extent that is both out of character &/or transforms the characters into completely different people. I've watched through Kai several times & the only references I've seen them make are light references to Team Four Star. Other than that, either the references flew over my head, or you're just making shit up here. I could believe it if it was Z we're talking about, or even if this was the FUNimation of the early 2000s, but I've seen many of their modern dubs & they're perfectly in-line with the Japanese in terms of translation. Even DB & GT didn't repeat a lot of the mistakes Z did. And if you're gonna bring up Goku, in the newer dubs, they actually go out of their way to make Goku more like he was in Japanese in the dub, which I'm not exactly against. And if you are, are we talking goku's speech patterns, Goku's dialogue on a series by series basis, or Goku's character as a whole, because I'll share something with you...Even Toriyama forgets how he originally wrote Goku, even when he says he intended for Goku to be more selfish & the anime staff for Super write Goku like he's from DBZ Abridged rather than his original characterization, even from the Buu Saga, which is plagued by so many problems outside of Goku's characterization already.
And "flat scripts for everyone besides Freeza"? What? I've heard criticisms, & even have stated several of my own, that their modern scripts seem to use a thesaurus or are overly wordy to match the lipflaps, but never that they're flat. Is this in comparison to the subs on their home releases, Crunchyroll's, or fansubs? Because if you're comparing to one of those, every translator & script writer has their own styles & shortcuts that they use regularly, or styles of translation, so I don't know if scripts being flat is particularly a criticism that makes sense for the dubs. I've seen someone say that FUNi's Kai scripts were like the Z scripts, just changed a bit, but I highly doubt that's the case. If there are lines in the original Z dub that are like Kai's, then good on them for getting a translation right, but from what I've seen there are still more bad translations than there are good ones in that dub. FUNi's newer dub scripts are as accurate as they've ever been, the cast is at the top of their game, & the series is in good hands. I don't doubt that Bang Zoom had decently accurate scripts, but from what I've heard & seen of it, the direction of the cast & some awkward scripting keeps it from being good outside of snark bait. ANd, I don't like inaccurate dubs. I prefer my dubs to be as accurate as possible, but there's more to dubbing than just an accurate script, which I believe you're aware of.
I mean, Freeza does get great dialogue, but it's not like the other characters are slouches. It might be Chris Ayres' awesome performance that puts it up there, which is why he's the best English Frieza by far. Like, I could see Derek Stephen Prince working, but from the clips I've heard of his take on the character, he both tries way too hard to make Frieza menacing &/or doesn't understand the kind of performance needed for the role, which is weird since he's also the Digimon Emperor, or he got lousy direction, but I digress.
And, I've NEVER heard them hiding behind localization as an excuse for bad dubs. I've seen Sean Schemmel badly explain how he's voicing Goku Black & hide behind "artistic license" in a way that seems to go out of his way to have it make less sense, but never that.
Nia wrote:To put it bluntly, screw FUNImation's bastardization and the "localization" it came in on. It's not accurate, it's not true even in spirit, and it's essentially a glorified 4Kids dub. They've had 20 years to get their shit straight, and yet they STILL keep screwing up constantly, and I don't see why when this has been discussed to death how I need to elaborate on what is an obviously cheap, half-assed, bird-brained dub that is still dumbed down because they're under the impression the western fanbase has the mental capacity of a toddler and can't comprehend the series if it's not simplified to the point of scrubbing the soul of the series out.
They've had repeated chances to get better cast members (and in some cases did, particularly for Freeza), yet they refuse to replace people who were obviously miscast in the role for whatever reason. In some cases, many of the VAs have actually become worse.
You have yet to actually watch Kai & Super with FUNi's dubbing, rather than looking for flaws, which I get that you need to do that for dubs, but it sounds to me as if you weren't legitimately giving them chances. The old dubs were hindered by the fact that they made them for TV rather than home media first. Nowadays, they make the dub for the direct to DVD market, THAT'S where you could make comparisons to 4Kids, but anything else is just unfair to both companies. "Dumb things down"? If you actually watch any of their modern dubs, they never dumb things down. You are saying things that simply aren't true, sorry. "Cheap"? Considering that FUNi had access to a higher budget than during the Z days & had a higher talent pool at their disposal, the fact that Sabat opted NOT to voice every character in Kai again that didn't have a different VA already, on top of them flying in many of the mainstay actors that now live in California, then hiring James Marsters & Brian Drummond, I'd hardly call them cheap, or half-assed, since the direction is spot-on for what is required & the script in on-point. "Bird-brained" isn't even a criticism I think you can call the dubs either, considering the dubs are made for an older audience than stupid children. If you think it's that, I think you're questioning the source material over the dub's translation & not realizing it. Let's be honest, though, Dragon Ball is a franchise predicated on fights & adventure. It's also written by a gag manga writer who loves to have stupid jokes & fuck with the audience when he wants, which he's never been afraid to do. There's more legit things to be mad at Dragon Ball for than a dub, good or bad. It's entertaining, but it never aspires to be Breaking Bad-level deep the majority of the time.
Nia wrote:There are good aspects to the FUNI dub, but honestly, the majority of it is laughable, and if it were any other franchise treated this way, I'm pretty sure the fans would scream bloody murder at it.

Hopefully I won't have to repeat this for a third time, because it was tiresome before.

tl;dr - It's because FUNImation's dub outright sucks.
I mean, you don't have to repeat all this info again, since it's here, but if I have to say anything, I think you maybe expect the wrong things at this point & you're making claims & comparisons that don't make a lot of sense, or comparisons I've seen people make, but had an entirely different attitude towards. I'm really doubting anyone would really mind what they do in the current dubs to any other franchise (which, they do in other FUNi dubs, BTW), considering many people already make comparisons to the new characters' voices in both languages. If you look at the Super dub thread, we have discussions on the newer voices & performances all the time over there.
I mean, I, honestly, don't see your opinions, not only because I don't agree, but because I watch dubs over Japanese versions when available, but with the subs for the Japanese versions, & I've, honestly, never seen any mistranslations, miscasts, or anything else for the modern Dragon Ball dubs that weren't already there in the Japanese dubs. I mean, have your opinions, sure, but either you haven't given the dubs their fair shake, or you just don't care. I say this as a Dragon Ball fan & a dub fan, as well as someone who implores accurate dubs. The modern DB dubs by FUNimation are great. The castings, scripts, direction & other things have been on-point since 2010 & the crew at the studio care about the material they're dubbing. They have worked hard to right the wrongs of the past dubs & if anyone can't see that, I don't know what to say. Like the alternate dubs as much as you want, no one can deny those facts. It would be foolish to. The Bang Zoom dub had a long way to go & high standards to meet, which I don't think it did. The fact that several of the actors went with trying to voice match the FUNi cast rather than be original pretty much shows that they either didn't take the dub as seriously as they should've, or were trying too hard. Had this dub not get quietly cancelled, I bet the actors would've settled into their roles more, & their Goku wouldn't sound like Morty Smith anymore, but I can't see liking the dub over FUNi's, sorry.
I just spent about 40 minutes writing a reply to this, and got screwed over and lost all my response (because somehow my rotten day just couldn't end without dicking me over one last time), so I'll sum it up the best I can because I can't be bothered to rewrite the entirety of it (making me ALMOST as lazy as FUNImation):
You can like whatever you want and in no way am I going to discourage that, but frankly I have seen the majority of FUNImation's "dubbing" since 1998, and that includes Kai, the last two movies, and Super, and I stand by my statement that FUNImation's dub is a mediocre dub at it's absolute best (Chris Ayres notwithstanding, because that dude could have made even the shitty season 3 dialogue sound amazing) and I refuse to call it a good dub on the grounds that after 20 damn years and multiple dubs from the same people, it should be as close to the source material as you can get without Goku greeting everyone with "Osu!" when most anime get one shot and still generally hit higher accuracy with better voice acting and scripts. It is a dub that typically, when doing it's best, still generally hits the bare minimum of could be called an accurate dub.
The fact that you tried to claim I haven't seen their post-Kai dubs is frankly insulting, especially since I wouldn't be nearly so critical of the dub if I hadn't, and seeing as how you stuck your foot in your mouth by pointing out that you haven't actually seen the BZ dub beyond a few clips by your own admission is a bit hypocritical. I maintain my statements that the FUNImation dub is a half-assed, poor quality representation of a dumb-but-not-drool-monkey-level-of-dumb franchise and believe Schemmel's constipated speeches, Scooby Doo giggles, and shitty ad-libs have more than overstayed their welcome.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by DB_Fan1991 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:57 pm

Nia, you really remind me of penguintruth except even he liked Kai’s dub. I also think you’re a minority. FUNi’s dub from Kai onward is the dub we should have had from the start. If you hate the dub so much just watch the Japanese which mind you I also like. I see Schemmel & Nozawa as equal.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:02 pm

Nia wrote:I just spent about 40 minutes writing a reply to this, and got screwed over and lost all my response (because somehow my rotten day just couldn't end without dicking me over one last time), so I'll sum it up the best I can because I can't be bothered to rewrite the entirety of it (making me ALMOST as lazy as FUNImation):
You can like whatever you want and in no way am I going to discourage that, but frankly I have seen the majority of FUNImation's "dubbing" since 1998, and that includes Kai, the last two movies, and Super, and I stand by my statement that FUNImation's dub is a mediocre dub at its absolute best (Chris Ayres notwithstanding, because that dude could have made even the shitty season 3 dialogue sound amazing) and I refuse to call it a good dub on the grounds that after 20 damn years and multiple dubs from the same people, it should be as close to the source material as you can get without Goku greeting everyone with "Osu!" when most anime get one shot and still generally hit higher accuracy with better voice acting and scripts.It is a dub that typically, when doing it's best, still generally hits the bare minimum of could be called an accurate dub.
The fact that you tried to claim I haven't seen their post-Kai dubs is frankly insulting, especially since I wouldn't be nearly so critical of the dub if I hadn't, and seeing as how you stuck your foot in your mouth by pointing out that you haven't actually seen the BZ dub beyond a few clips by your own admission is a bit hypocritical. I maintain my statements that the FUNImation dub is a half-assed, poor quality representation of a dumb-but-not-drool-monkey-level-of-dumb franchise and believe Schemmel's constipated speeches, Scooby Doo giggles, and shitty ad-libs have more than overstayed their welcome.
Generally, their dub is. Short of having Goku be voiced with a Southern accent to make him sound like a hick (which would get very annoying, honestly), & peppering in "aints", they've finally hit the nail on the head with how his character should be represented in English. I was pleasantly surprised with Kai: TFC's dub & how they handled Goku's characterization, since they got everyone else's completely right. Schemmel's performance also completely sells me on it. I wouldn't be saying this stuff if I wasn't 100% certain about this. I mean, frankly, how they handled Z, & still continue to handle it in terms of home media is, frankly, insulting. Kai at the very least had nothing to screw up. They even kept in dialogue that made NO sense to keep in, like Gas & Mez saying how they saw Goku fall off of Snake Way, even though that stuff was excised in Kai, but then again, the Hell scenes in Kai TFC should've been excised too, since they're completely filler.
I didn't mean to come off as insulting, but that's how it feels. I offered the alternative that it seemed like you weren't giving the dub its fair shake because, to be blunt, you come off as insulting to anyone who watches these dubs with your claims of inaccuracies, dumbing down scripts, references, & bad voice acting or actor choices. My thing is that it feels like you're just making shit up to disparage their newer dubs unfairly. I mean, I at least gave the Bang Zoom dub a fair shake to be at least a decent alternate dub for those who like it by sampling it, but I can't in good conscience say that it is. And I've only sampled the Ocean dub of Z as well, but I can say that that's a decent alternative to the FUNimation Z dub that got made because the acting's better. And here's the thing, why do you think previews exist? To drum up hype. If a person can be impressed by a preview clip, then it's good, whatever it is. If there isn't a lot of people being impressed, then it failed & this dub didn't do anything for me that I couldn't get out of the FUNi dub & more. That's where I'm coming from with that, so I don't think it's hypocritical to judge a dub based on clips.
I also watch clips of the Japanese dub to preview scenes & voices & I absolutely love Japanese Zamasu & Goku Black, which I've been keen to be the right amount of critical of if the English dub messes anything up because of it. Thankfully, they've pulled off good acting in the dub with those characters & more. I'm sorry you can't see it & I apologize for not seeing what's so special about this dub, since we're, obviously, polar opposites here, but I can't see what you do in it. I've tried, but I simply can't, sorry.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:04 pm

No, the Ocean dubs of the first three dubs is what we should have had from the start.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nia » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:43 pm

DB_Fan1991 wrote:Nia, you really remind me of penguintruth except even he liked Kai’s dub. I also think you’re a minority. FUNi’s dub from Kai onward is the dub we should have had from the start. If you hate the dub so much just watch the Japanese which mind you I also like. I see Schemmel & Nozawa as equal.
Oh, I know of penguintruth's reputation, and while I certainly do have similar feelings on many things, I'd like to state a few things: I do not believe FUNImation's dub is beyond salvaging. There absolutely are great aspects to it, and I do agree, to a point, that Kai quality is what we should have had from the start (at least regarding FUNI's in house dub). However, by no means can I find it truly accurate the source material, and Schemmel has absolutely nothing on Nozawa. His acting still is far too stilted during the goofy moments. During the more serious bits, he's at least tolerable, but I still don't hear Goku during those. He comes off as trying to sound "suave" too often, rather than just sounding serious. And even in the moments where he is in character, that voice simply does not sound like "Goku" to me. I believe FUNI's Z dub was something like 40% accurate; I find their Kai dub to be something like maybe 70-75% accurate. It's a lot better for sure, but there's still too many things that feel like it was watered down, either for children or for an American audience. I don't think they're even close to being comparable performances. With Nozawa, I hear Goku. With Schemmel, I just hear Schemmel.
For the record, I don't pay much mind to the FUNI dub much anymore, but it comes up often enough that I do find myself looking into it from time to time, not to mention I'll occasionally have it on as background noise, and there's always something that strikes my ears as "wrong." It's noticeable in virtually any scene Chris Ayres' Freeza is in, for instance: the atmosphere completely changes when he's speaking, like he stepped out of another anime dub completely. Even most of the VAs I do like in the modern dubs don't sound like they're in sync with him, and it throws the whole thing off. Ayres sounds like someone out of most of what I'd call a great dub. The good VAs that I do like (people like Dameon Clarke, for instance) sound like they belong in a pretty good/standard quality dub, and occasionally give some straight up great performances. But so many of the people from season 3, particularly Schemmel and Sabat, still sound stilted and flat; Sabat in particularly seems to have given up making his characters sound different: I kid you not, there's a scene in the Kai dub when Piccolo, Yamcha, and Vegeta all had lines (I think it's just before Yamcha fights the Saibaiman). I wasn't watching it, but I was listening to it in the background, and got confused because it sounded like Piccolo and Yamcha were arguing with each other before it dawned on me that they were talking to Vegeta.
Scsigs wrote: Generally, their dub is. Short of having Goku be voiced with a Southern accent to make him sound like a hick (which would get very annoying, honestly), & peppering in "aints", they've finally hit the nail on the head with how his character should be represented in English. I was pleasantly surprised with Kai: TFC's dub & how they handled Goku's characterization, since they got everyone else's completely right. Schemmel's performance also completely sells me on it. I wouldn't be saying this stuff if I wasn't 100% certain about this. I mean, frankly, how they handled Z, & still continue to handle it in terms of home media is, frankly, insulting. Kai at the very least had nothing to screw up. They even kept in dialogue that made NO sense to keep in, like Gas & Mez saying how they saw Goku fall off of Snake Way, even though that stuff was excised in Kai, but then again, the Hell scenes in Kai TFC should've been excised too, since they're completely filler.
I didn't mean to come off as insulting, but that's how it feels. I offered the alternative that it seemed like you weren't giving the dub its fair shake because, to be blunt, you come off as insulting to anyone who watches these dubs with your claims of inaccuracies, dumbing down scripts, references, & bad voice acting or actor choices. My thing is that it feels like you're just making shit up to disparage their newer dubs unfairly. I mean, I at least gave the Bang Zoom dub a fair shake to be at least a decent alternate dub for those who like it by sampling it, but I can't in good conscience say that it is. And I've only sampled the Ocean dub of Z as well, but I can say that that's a decent alternative to the FUNimation Z dub that got made because the acting's better. And here's the thing, why do you think previews exist? To drum up hype. If a person can be impressed by a preview clip, then it's good, whatever it is. If there isn't a lot of people being impressed, then it failed & this dub didn't do anything for me that I couldn't get out of the FUNi dub & more. That's where I'm coming from with that, so I don't think it's hypocritical to judge a dub based on clips.
I also watch clips of the Japanese dub to preview scenes & voices & I absolutely love Japanese Zamasu & Goku Black, which I've been keen to be the right amount of critical of if the English dub messes anything up because of it. Thankfully, they've pulled off good acting in the dub with those characters & more. I'm sorry you can't see it & I apologize for not seeing what's so special about this dub, since we're, obviously, polar opposites here, but I can't see what you do in it. I've tried, but I simply can't, sorry.
There's a lot of lines that aren't even close to the Japanese version, and it's easy enough to simply slip on stuff like the Japanese subtitles over the English audio. And they wouldn't need to give Goku a southern accent (I do agree, that could become very grating if not done properly). But considering even TFS's Goku, despite being a parody, has many of the traits of the Japanese Goku that Schemmel doesn't, I find it impossible to say Schemmel's performance sells much of anything. Is it so hard to give him less refined grammar? To make him mispronounce words? Honestly, they could do something like what ATLUS did for Labrys' Kyoto accent in Persona 4 Arena: give him something like a Chicago accent. She blurts out "ain't" constantly, and has various forms of slang, and it sounds not only natural, but it's legitimately one of the best performances in a game (and franchise) that has some absolutely stellar voice work.
And to be fair to Schemmel, this is a gripe that I have with pretty much all the English dubs of Dragon Ball, not just FUNI's, although some of the others come closer to hitting it. Even if he isn't my favorite, I dare say Lex Lang has understood the character of Son Goku better than any other dub actor; his performance during the goofy moments absolutely does sound like a happy-go-lucky manchild fightmonkey.
There were moments in DBS where Schemmel almost hit it, and I'll give him credit for it: when he's begging Beerus for a little bit of time so he can summon Shenlong, it was legitimate the first time he sounded like the manchild Goku is. The adlibbed "Super-Saiyan please" line wasn't out of place and was more-or-less in true to the spirit of the source material. It was a good moment, despite almost everyone else being god awful in that episode (I don't even hate Jason Douglas' as Beerus, but he sounded pretty terrible in that episode and I still don't know why they kept throwing in The Price is Right references).
Another reason why I gripe about the scripts is that everyone has the same speaking style besides Freeza. They all seem to have the same vernacular (I hope I'm using that term right, because otherwise I sound really derpy). I don't really hear a variance in anyone's performances or speaking styles. It's such a far cry from something like the characters Nozawa voices; they may all have the same basic voice at slightly different pitches, but their speech patterns are so vastly different. You can usually tell a difference between Goku's excited manchild speak and Gohan's more verbose, well thought out polite speech. I can hear that in most dubs, but everyone kinda just seems to run together in FUNI's modern DB dubs (which is really weird, because while they definitely had too much same-y dialogue in the earlier dubs, the voices didn't usually run together like this, and it kind baffles me), and that's what I meant by the "flat" comment from before.
For the record, most of my remarks of miscasting refer to the actors that remain from season 3. I think if you removed Sabat and Schemmel, there'd be a chance for a vast improvement.

Also, I think you may misunderstand: the Ocean dub existed before the FUNI in-house dub; it doesn't exist because it has better acting. It exists because it came first. I think you may be getting it mixed up with the Westwood dub (which reused most of the Ocean cast, but with far inferior production values, development time, and directing... and it does show quite a bit, although McNeil and Drummond are as amazing as ever in it). The movies were handled quite a bit differently (and it's been said that had FUNI not been involved at all, they likely would have ignored the dubisms entirely, which makes sense given that they managed to get away with pronouncing Kaioken correctly a decade earlier than FUNI ever did, but that's merely rumor). I've only seen bits and pieces of the Westwood dub sadly, and while I do think most of the main character voice work is better than FUNI's, I think FUNI did better with the villains. They use pretty similar scripts, so that aspect still sucks, regardless of the dub.
...Unless you're referring to Ocean Kai, which... well, I can't judge it for obvious reasons, but I would love it if it somehow sees the light of day.
I think the last time I was fully invested in FUNI's dub was when Fukkatsu no F came out. I had previously watched it, but I sat down with some friends to watch it, and one wanted to watch it dubbed, and I was like "well, if nothing else, Chris Ayres kicks ass so I'll be able to enjoy his performance." And while Ayres indeed stole the show (like always), there were a lot of things that just bothered me throughout the movie. I think the worst of it is actually the way Kuririn is written in the dub. Him constantly referring to #18 as "babe" feels so out of character for him (we all know he thinks she's attractive, but he's never once said it in such a way in the Japanese version), and I'm pretty sure she didn't say "he looked cool" in the Japanese version. It was such a weird moment, and it still bothers me. There's a lot of little bits sprinkled in their modern dubs, and it starts to build up after a while.
That being said, I think Sabat's Vegeta was actually pretty okay in the movie. Nothing mindblowing, but he didn't sound like he was trying to make Vegeta sound like a volcano about to blow like he usually does (and yes, I feel he still did this in Kai). It was adequate.
Beyond the anime, I think pretty much every game's dub since Tenkaichi Tag Team has been terrible. TTT's dub? Yeah, it was good. Granted, the dub names being used was irritating beyond all belief, especially since Kai was using more of the Japanese names by then (and I still don't know why they dropped it, and even when using them half-assed it), but the dub in general was good. Hell, I straight up fanboy squealed when Freeza was referred to as a bastard by Vegeta and the characters were saying damn instead of darn.
But FighterZ's dub was a terrible mess where any dialogue it had has been just turned into typical internet roasting, and Xenoverse/Xenoverse 2 have probably the worst dubs of any Dragon Ball game ever (except the hilarity of everyone being miscast in Final Bout, but hey; I think the dialogue was somewhat accurate, at least when they actually bothered to dub it). Why throw in the stupid lines like "Goku Black likey" or "time to make the Donuts?"
Quite a bit of this stuff (albeit not all) does bleed into the anime's dubs, and it starts to wear thin. I don't think most anime dubs do this kinda thing, and even fewer truly great dubs do this. I do think expanding the dialogue and adding more personality is fine as long as the original message is fine, but FUNI takes a lot of liberties. A good example is the English dub of Code Geass; Zero's speeches (at least based on what the subtitles read) tend to be much more exaggerated and wordy. This is certainly easy to do, given that he has no mouthflaps due to wearing a helmet, but there's more to it than that: his dialogue is very much in-line with the original Japanese version, but is made more Shakesperean-styled. Instead of just "I am sad," it becomes "My heart is filled with sorrow and despair" or something to that effect, and it fits due to the character being a large ham.
I don't generally see that in the FUNI dubs; I tend to see the opposite. Now granted, some of this is likely for lip-flaps, and I can accept that.
However, there's some lines that are just entirely rewritten for no reason. Goku's first SSJ transformation is a really good example. Somehow, there's parts that are more accurate in the season 3 dub, which still confuses me beyond all belief. In Kai, Goku suddenly talks about making Freeza suffer and calling him an evil, heartless bastard. Why? For what purpose did they change one of the most iconic scenes? Besides that, there's also a really confusing line that Freeza spouts just before he kills Kuririn. In the Japanese version, he's simply proclaiming that even in his current state, he's more than capable of killing them all and that none of them will leave there alive, while in the dub he suddenly says something like "I advise against placing too much stock in your skill, though if you like, I can bring you closer to home," and then makes a joke about how he hopes Kuririn isn't afraid of heights. Like... not a single part of that is even remotely accurate. (Though, again, I have no shame in stating that as bad as those lines are, Ayres sounds absolutely brilliant and it does help make up for some of my gripes. Seriously, someone give that dude an award.)

As for the previews comment, there's some truth to that, but there's also a lot of people who also purposely put up the worst parts in clips and try acting like that's the general quality of the dub (and yes, many people do that for the FUNI dub, which is unfair to it as well).
And honestly, I think Goku Black is quite possibly the character who has been treated the worst in the FUNI dub in recent years, with several mistakes that could have been avoided if they'd just reference the source material. And mind you, I don't even hate Schemmel's Goku Black Rosé voice (in fact, I kinda wish he used that kind of tone for normal Goku, minus the accent... I think it's a reasonable voice). But why the BS about how he becomes "more like Zamasu?" Why not just use that voice in general? It's better than the "Goku but meaner" voice he's using in the anime right now for base Black. And why be so hostile towards fans who just want them to keep it true to the source material (which in all fairness, does make me slightly more biased against him, although I've never been a fan of him as Goku and especially as Kaio-sama; I did like his Nail tho')?
As for Zamasu, I'll admit, I haven't heard Marster's take on him since Xenoverse 2... but can you really deny that was an absolutely laughable performance? There were times where I legitimately thought he had to be drunk.

No matter how much I see the FUNI dub improving, they almost always do something that sets it back, and prevent it from ever becoming what I'd call good. There was some hyperbole in my previous statements (I don't think it's actually shit or garbage; I find it below average, but I don't find it to be hopeless. There are aspects that I do really enjoy), but when I see them making many of the same mistakes they made 20 years ago, it annoys me. I can't think of a single other anime dub that does this that's respected, and often I feel FUNI gets a free pass for a lot of it's bullshit simply because it has been around for so long.
Part of the reason why I do enjoy the BZ dub is because not only was it a fresh take on the series, but so many of the actors were clearly putting their hearts into it. Allow me this comparison if you will: Much of the BZ dub reminds me of the TFS cast, something that I know you're a fan of. Despite being a parody dub, and straight up aping the FUNI voices, I genuinely find most of their performances to be superior to that of FUNImation's. Not every case, of course, but I legitimately feel like Lani's Vegeta is superior to Sabat, despite him doing a Sabat impression. The voice is somewhat similar, but the actual acting sounds so much more believable. That's the way I feel about Kaiji Tang's Vegeta: he's doing a Sabat impression, but his actual acting is so much more natural sounding.
Too often, the FUNI dub just sounds like people reading lines to me. And I know they can give better performances; I've heard them before. A great example was the dub of the 6th Z movie (which was a pretty good dub overall; even the script only had a handful of annoyances). The performances in that movie are legitimately good, even from VAs I don't like. But a lot of their modern stuff sounds so soulless to me, and it just sounds like they're simply "on the clock" when I hear it. Not all of them, but a lot of it, and I feel like Sabat and Schemmel phone it in the most (save for Eric Vale, who sometimes outright drops character... what happened Vale? You used to be cool...).

For the record, I don't think you need to apologize for not seeing what I see in this dub, but I hope you can at least understand where I'm coming from with the FUNI dub. In no way am I trying to tell you that you can't enjoy what they do, and I apologize if I sound hostile. I bare no malice towards their fanbase, beyond the ones who continually assault anyone who isn't a fan of the dub, who are just as bad as the ones who will claim something like the Japanese version of every anime is superior because it's Japanese. I don't give a rot about dubs vs. subs and merely go with whatever sounds better; and in the case of something like the BZ dub, having a more accurate dub with a voice cast that is made up of many of my favorite VAs from so many other anime that I know can do many of these roles justice is a nice bonus, even if I still prefer the Japanese version.
The BZ dub isn't ideal or anything, but to me it carried the soul of the source material and did so with minimal alterations, and without trying to "Americanize/westernize/lolartisticlicense" it. (And no, I don't think the fanbase is ever gonna let Schemmel live that stupid comment down.)
Again, I want to reiterate: I don't bare you any malice, and I apologize if it came off that way (lack of a good sleep and various life frustrations make it difficult to maintain my demeanor which isn't the most friendly or articulate to being with). I just want people to understand that I don't hate FUNImation simply for the sake of hating it; I hate it because after 20 years, they still don't seem able to dub the series without forcing changes that are unwanted and unneeded.
(Good lawd, that was a rant that took way too friggin' long to finish...)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:26 pm

Nia wrote:I dare say Lex Lang has understood the character of Son Goku better than any other dub actor; his performance during the goofy moments absolutely does sound like a happy-go-lucky manchild fightmonkey.
I don't see how he understands Goku better than the other guys. He's simply miscast, even more than Kirby Morrow.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by SuperCyan2 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm

Did Bang Zoom! close their YouTube channel? I've been trying to find it but it seems to be nowhere to be found (it had some Bang Zoom Super content). Bang Zoom! Vimeo channel has 28 videos but none of Super.

It's a pity the Bang Zoom dub of Super can't be released on DVD/BD or streamed but hey, maybe someday FUNimation will do a "Dragon Ball Super: The Bang Zoom Collection" like they did with Rock the Dragon set.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Nia wrote:I dare say Lex Lang has understood the character of Son Goku better than any other dub actor; his performance during the goofy moments absolutely does sound like a happy-go-lucky manchild fightmonkey.
I don't see how he understands Goku better than the other guys. He's simply miscast, even more than Kirby Morrow.
It ultimately comes down to direction. I mean, give Schemmel all the shit you want, at least he doesn't sound miscast, depending on your perspective of how Goku should sound in English, especially if you're looking for Nozawa's direct equivalent. Morrow, I wouldn't say he was exactly miscast. More so, he could only embody a more normal Goku than Goku's other main characteristics. Give it to him, at least it wasn't like Schemmel in the Z dub, where he doesn't sound confident in the role the majority of the time, but could sound powerful when he needed to. Morrow had the opposite problems Schemmel did from what I could tell.
Lang, I don't even know, dude. I've heard him in other things, but I've never thought of him as bad before I sampled this dub.
SuperCyan2 wrote:Did Bang Zoom! close their YouTube channel? I've been trying to find it but it seems to be nowhere to be found (it had some Bang Zoom Super content). Bang Zoom! Vimeo channel has 28 videos but none of Super.

It's a pity the Bang Zoom dub of Super can't be released on DVD/BD or streamed but hey, maybe someday FUNimation will do a "Dragon Ball Super: The Bang Zoom Collection" like they did with Rock the Dragon set.
That's not likely to happen. Unlike Bang Zoom's recordings, the original Ocean-dubbed episodes were things FUNimation produced themselves back i the mid-90s. They had the recordings sitting in their vaults for almost 20 years, so they thought to do that set as a legacy-type thing. It's why they haven't also released the later dubbed episodes. They neither own the recordings, nor would they probably have interest in releasing sets with that dub, even if Ocean still has those recordings.
They only release dubs they produce, or past dubs that they deem good or iconic enough to release for their licenses, hence why older anime they've gotten the rights to like Cowboy Bebop & Outlaw Star have their original dubs, but One Piece isn't likely to see the light of day with the 4Kids dub, noth that I think 4K media held onto those recordings like they did Yugioh's, since they're of such a poor quality dub. In some cases, they'll do releases with 2 different dubs, like Akira or Escaflowne, but not often. There's neither the interest nor demand for the Bang Zoom dub to be released, so you're out of luck, sorry, buddy.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:38 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:FUNi have all streaming, digital download, home video and broadcast rights for DBS in NA
That is not, has never been, and likely never will be the case.
Funimation put out the home video releases in the US and Canada, therefore only their dub is likely to end up on DVD over there.
TV networks in the US stick to Funimation because that's what's always aired over there since 1999, but if they wanted to, they could pick another dub. They just won't. And the same goes for online streaming and such.
But, as I say, they won't. At least, not in the US.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:including Canada, which rules out any potential of an Ocean dub too.
Again, all they control is the home video releases. Otherwise, the post-Namek Ocean dub of Z wouldn't have aired back in 2002-2004, neither would Blue Water's of DB and GT.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:The BZ dub can only be legally shown in Asia.
Nah. Anyone could pick it up. It's just that no one outside of Asia is used to that cast, so it's unlikely to get picked up.
Sailor Haumea wrote:So is this dub any good...?
Yeah, it's pretty good. Started off rough, but got better over time. It's definitely a shame they won't be able to continue; there was a lot of potential there.
SuperCyan2 wrote:Dammit. So the only way to acquire Bang Zoom Super and Ocean Dub Kai is by pirating without the chance to owning it legally, at all. :(

I'd love to support these two dubs so much.
Nah, he's wrong. The US won't get anything that isn't Funimation, because the US has always been Funimation territory, so no streaming service or TV network would risk getting another dub. But, Canada, the UK, or anywhere else English-speaking(Except Australia, which is in a similar situation to the US) could easily get those alternate dubs.
Nia wrote:[Bashing of Funimation]
Honestly, while I do like a lot of the Funimation castings and actors, and I honestly believe everyone on the voice acting side is putting their all into it, and Chris Sabat in particular is a really cool dude... Yeah, I agree. Glad I'm not the only one.
8000 Saiyan wrote:No, the Ocean dubs of the first three dubs is what we should have had from the start.
This very much.
SuperCyan2 wrote:It's a pity the Bang Zoom dub of Super can't be released on DVD/BD or streamed but hey, maybe someday FUNimation will do a "Dragon Ball Super: The Bang Zoom Collection" like they did with Rock the Dragon set.
It can. It just likely won't. Funimation control the releases in the US and Canada, and they're preferred in the US and Australia, so that really only leaves Manga UK, who don't do their own releases, they just import existing stuff. So... Yeah, it won't happen, but if there was a place that could put it out, there's no legal reason or anything that it couldn't be done.
Scsigs wrote:the original Ocean-dubbed episodes were things FUNimation produced themselves back i the mid-90s.
Rest of what you said about Bang Zoom being unlikely to get a DVD is all good, but actually, Funimation just own the rights to the Saban dub. The recording was done in Canada at Ocean, and while Barry Watson did often direct the actors, ultimately, all Funimation really did was provide some work on the script adaptation, direct the voices, and own the rights to the show. They didn't record anything themselves until the in-house dub of Sleeping Princess in 1998.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:56 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:FUNi have all streaming, digital download, home video and broadcast rights for DBS in NA
That is not, has never been, and likely never will be the case.
Funimation put out the home video releases in the US and Canada, therefore only their dub is likely to end up on DVD over there.
TV networks in the US stick to Funimation because that's what's always aired over there since 1999, but if they wanted to, they could pick another dub. They just won't. And the same goes for online streaming and such.
But, as I say, they won't. At least, not in the US.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:including Canada, which rules out any potential of an Ocean dub too.
Again, all they control is the home video releases. Otherwise, the post-Namek Ocean dub of Z wouldn't have aired back in 2002-2004, neither would Blue Water's of DB and GT.
FUNi's press release for the license specifically says:

"FUNimation Entertainment announced on Friday that it has entered into a multi-year agreement with Toei Animation to license Dragon Ball Super in the United States and Canada. The license covers streaming, digital download, home video distribution, broadcast opportunities, and merchandising."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by SuperCyan2 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:30 pm

I sent Bang Zoom an inquiry about the dub if it is canceled or not and this was their response.
Unfortunately I do not have information on that at this time.

The decision to dub more episodes would be up to our client. You can always message Toonami Asia and tell them you are a fan and want to see more episodes. We would certainly be happy to do more.

Thank you for your support!

Best,
The Bang Zoom! Team
So it's not actually canceled but moreso pending.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Bang Zoom Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:27 pm

Nia wrote:
Sailor Haumea wrote:So is this dub any good...?
Best English dub of Dragon Ball we've had since the Ocean dub of the first three movies by far, despite some of the typical dubisms and the censorship.
Couldn’t disagree more. On almost every level.

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