(Gonna cut the quote out just to save on space; apologies in advance if I miss something in my response because I'm too lazy to do formatting)
The "heroic" side of Goku was in a few parts even outside of filler/movies (actually, I think the movies often made Goku closer to his manga counterpart). One particular one was a slightly longer speech against Freeza before using the Kaioken x20.
Goku didn't generally do that stuff out of a sense of heroism. He mostly did it because of a personal grudge. That stuff is usually outright revenge; particularly with Freeza and Zamasu. You don't need to look any further than his dialogue against Freeza, where his speech pattern changed entirely, and became much more outwardly malicious. Admittedly, Goku doesn't like to see needless death, but those were almost entirely personal, not to mention the fight with Freeza was where he finally accepted himself as a Saiyajin (and began to become more and more... shall we say "primal?"; it was where the contrast between him and Vegeta started to switch sides, with Vegeta gaining more humanity while Goku became more of a battle junkie).
Remember, Goku doesn't view his family as family; they're basically just friends to him. He certainly gets mad when they get hurt or injured, but his priority is almost always "I wanna punch the strong guy!"
Also, the Goten and Trunks one is a REALLY bad one to reference, given that it was entirely just Goku being a dumbass. It had nothing to do with protecting the future; he straight up referred to them as a gamble and actually had no faith in them. There's no reason why he couldn't have obliterated Buu and still taught them Fusion for future threats. Rather amusingly, nearly every bad thing that happens in that arc is ultimately Goku's fault.
As I said, maybe that IS a bit nitpicky, but it was still an unnecessary change.
I'm not against those characters showing affection at their spouses, but those are things that NEITHER character would ever say. Kuririn is always super polite to his wife in the Japanese version, and that line Videl spouted just screams "cringe." I'm not saying he needs to call her #18-san in English or anything (while I do like honorifics being used in some dubs, I don't think it's a necessity in Dragon Ball), but him calling her babe just sounds entirely out of character. It doesn't help that I swear they follow it up with #18 always saying "he's so cool" in the dub, despite her wanting him to be careful in the Japanese version. Considering how tight of a family they are, it just makes me feel like they're trying to write them like a sitcom family.
As for the Satan Punch scene... your complaint is that Japanese humor tends to be extremely over-the-top, which may be the case, but... the scene itself is clearly over the top. I don't see how the outtake was funny. It didn't need any explanation; we knew Goku was stopping and getting his tractor, and then flying off with said tractor, doing an overdramatic scream just to escape his wife. We didn't need the half-assed yell, followed by "oh I forgot this." There's a phrase for this: "Don't explain the joke." And honestly, you're the first person I've seen actually defend the FUNI version of this scene.
It's not like the joke in DBZ movie 2, where Bulma makes a pun about brains upon seeing Dr. Uiro (I believe she yells out "ono" which is a word meaning something like brain, but sounds like "Oh no!"; my memory is foggy on this point). That joke simply wouldn't translate into English, and as far as I know, the dubs ignore the pun. I get that kind of change; this one just felt like they were trying to inject humor into what was already a damn funny scene, and in doing so, made it just lame.
I don't watch The Price is Right either. But I have no doubt that's what it was referencing, given Beerus' vocal inflection during the line.
I don't care much for the "Light of Death" name (which I believe was changed to that due to space limitations or something?), but I certainly prefer it to "Special Beam Cannon." It's also awkward that they finally pronounced Kaioken correctly (only took them a full decade after Ocean did it; allow me a moment to fanboy over the Pioneer/Ocean dubs of the first three movies despite still using Spirit Bomb instead of Genki-dama and mispronouncing Saiyan... no point in this discussion, I just really love those movie dubs).
I agree with this poin thought; they should have gone all in or not at all. It still annoys me seeing those names in the games when I have the Japanese voice track on, but I suppose hoping for Japanese subtitles is hoping for something that will never happen.
I know they didn't have much info on Black at the time, but was there any reason to not just use the Japanese lines? I mean, the performance probably wouldn't have been impressive, but at least nobody would have ever heard some of those lines.
I... actually don't hate his Rose voice. I'm even fine with the British accent, but it definitely seems weird given how Zamasu has no comparable accent.
I believe he's using the Rose voice full time now, but I wouldn't quote me on that. I do find it weird that he considers each form a different character (something he more or less said in a Twitter post, but I don't remember the specifics). To give the man credit, while I HATE his Goku voice... I don't hate the performance he gives for SSJ Goku most of the time (I think it sounds too smug for Goku rather than blunt and serious, but the actual performance was good), and I do think he finally learned how to emote as normal Goku in the DBS dub when acting the part of the doof, instead of just raising his voice to obnoxiously loud levels, so I do think when they dub the Future Trunks arc, he won't be the worst part of it.
...Unless the directing becomes really half-assed like XV2's.
That's... kinda the problem. Hit is a serious character. I don't think the line is necessarily a poor translation of a character more or less saying "time to get to work," but it's completely out-of-character for him. Hit isn't particularly humorous, and it feels like they're just trying to force in bad humor where it doesn't belong. It sounds like something Mr. Satan would say, not a grumpy 1000 year old assassin. The line itself is more or less a Woolseyism, but using it for that particular character is just wrong.
I'm aware King Kai Fist wa used in the first two Budokai games, and... it was really weird there. It's... not entirely wrong, admittedly, but there's no reason for that to be a thing. Also if I read Goku saying the word "delish" one more time, I'm gonna deck somebody... he's a hick, not a vapid valley girl. Honestly the subtitles are just pure wonk in a lot of ways. I do imagine that they had Simmons redo the subtitles, since I can't imagine the fanbase would be too pleased with the Crunchyroll subtitles crapping all over the Japanese voice track; it's bad enough they have to endure it on the site... I imagine people going berserk if they bought the DVDs and got the same poor translation.
I actually find it unintentionally hilarious that BZ uses "Hercule" but in episode titles, the attack names, and the name of the city they have no problem saying "Satan." I blame that more on Cartoon Network/Turner Asia than the dub itself given the amount of censorship (which is probably my biggest gripe with the dub), but it is frustrating either way.
It's not even "King Kai-sama." They always write the honorifics without the - inbetween, there's just a space. I don't know if that's considered wrong or not, but it really bugs me. Seeing "Beerus
sama" just looks weird to the eye, instead of Beerus-sama. I'd even gladly take Lord Beerus. I feel like those subs are done somewhat accurately, then somebody with a bottle of scotch does a hatchet job on them.
I generally say if it's not something I could understand someone saying unironically in person, then it's probably not natural. Then again, I think "it can't be helped" sounds entirely natural, and a lot of people claim no native English speaker would ever say that. But I certainly wouldn't find someone calling their significant other "arm candy" or saying "[name] likey" without a hint of irony all that natural.
Most dubs I really only critique on a surface level. If it sounds good, then it usually won't cross my mind (most anime I watch an episode in English, then watch it in Japanese, and whichever one I like more, I go with). Dragon Ball is a different case because of the butchering it's suffered over the years, and frankly... FUNImation has never (and probably will never) do a good dub of the series. That's not to say there's not good aspects to it. It's obviously no secret that I love Chris Ayers' Freeza, I think Dameon Clarke was pretty fun as Cell despite being almost the polar opposite of Norio Wakamoto's performance, even if I dislike Schemmel's Goku voice I can appreciate some of his performances, etc. But in general, it still sounds amateur to me, and honestly, I find that many of the "imitations" whether in the parodies or even the BZ dub are often much better than the FUNI dub actors, and the oft watered down dialogue, characterizations and the changed lines for the sake of changed lines ruin it.
I also hated the BoG arc in Super, and only watched the BZ dub of it due to enjoying a fresh take on it. Truth be told, despite preferring the Japanese voice cast, I probably enjoyed that and the Golden Freeza arc better in the BZ dub. With the parts of the FUNI dub I've seen, it was either stuff I heard about, or stuff I caught when it was on TV and I was too lazy to change the channel (I'll admit, I may seek out the Fake Vegeta arc simply to hear Brian Drummond's Vegeta again).
The slice of life episodes do not exist for that sole reason; they're usually made for the sake of character development. Yes, they tend to be humorous, but you're severely marginalizing them. Many people cite the slice of life episodes of the Future Trunks arc as being part of the reason why it worked so well (namely Trunks interacting with the past characters, and reaffirming why he still fights). As for gag characters, there's certainly a point where they just don't work in English without alterations, but Dragon Ball has plenty of humor that makes plenty of sense in English and doesn't need rewrites. None of these changes "helped to translate it properly." An example of something that wouldn't work in English was the joke in the original Dragon Ball about the English words punch and panties sounding the same in Japanese. Viz didn't alter this joke in the English manga, and it took me a while to catch on to it. It's not something that really works in English. I don't know how FUNI or Blue Water changed it (been too long since I saw the FUNI dub of that episode, and sadly have never seen the Blue Water dub), but I imagine it was completely different in at least the FUNI dub, given how they watered down Kame'senin's perversions (though I don't think they ever went and made him have gambling debts
).
In the case of Cowboy Bebop (to the best of my knowledge; I've never bothered to watch the Japanese version) were most likely altered because they simply don't make sense in an English context. Now, mind you, I wouldn't quote me on that.
A good example of a rewrite is a bit (once again using this franchise) in Persona 4. The character Naoto Shirogane is somewhat self-conscious about her speaking mannerisms if the protagonist enters a relationship with her. In the Japanese version, she asks if using the masculine word for "I" is weird. Obviously, that doesn't translate into English, because we don't have gender specific nouns for the first person. So the translators rewrote the line to reflect her speaking tone. It was a clever rewrite of the scene that keeps the original spirit intact while making it make sense in English. FUNImation's changes to the Dragon Ball dubs are rarely to help it make sense in English.
Remember, Goku's entire personality was rewritten back in Z for the sole purpose of "making him more relateable to American audiences" and in doing so, completely ruined everything that makes Goku who he is. While the changes may not be as extreme these days, they still don't "improve" anything, or make it work better in an English context.
Sorry, but I don't agree. I've never thought Schemmel was well cast as Goku, and I never will.
And it is something that loses the character's traits in the process, since the lack of his accent entirely or lack of mispronunciations just make him sound like 99% of the rest of the cast, to the point where you could swap out any other character's line and nobody would ever know.
