How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

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How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:51 am

So I've seen Trunks's content in Super, I.E Super Saiyan Ikari, Spirit Sword, Power scalling and learning attacks, get a lot of hate in the Dragon Ball community, here included. I've been trying to figure out why, cause from what I see. Isn't this all stuff Goku and Gohan have done before?

Gohan is regarded as a fan favourite, so much so a vocal fanbase of his get hyped every new arc at the prospect of his return to fame (I think he works better as Great Saiyaman), but he's done most of what Trunks did. Bullshit power ups that break the power scale? At least 5 times. Against Raditz, against Nappa, against Vegeta, against Freeza, against Cell, against Majin Buu. Gohan keeps receiving sudden power boosts, usually brought on from rage and in the case of his Unlocked Potential form, an asspull of a power boost that is just dropped on the viewer with no setup. Same with SSj3 for Goku, "So I can go beyond the beyond and make my hair super long and I learnt this off screen.". Don't even get me started on Gotenks learning SSj3, how is that any more acceptable then Future Trunks with Ikari I'll have no idea. As far back as Dragon Ball instant "I win" power ups have existed, Super Holy Water comes to mind. I have a similar thought on SSjBlue, at least it's a form that makes sense SSjGod+SSj=SSjBlue. SSj3 and Unlock Potential come out of nowhere with no build up and aren't explained. Yet Trunks SSjIkari is hated greatly more.

Spirit Sword is.......harder to defend since the only reason it beats Zamasu is, Zamasu was worn down, Trunks got gifted Goku and Vegeta's god ki, and power of my Nakama. Yeah I'm not gonna defend this attack much except it fits it's purpose. Zamasu was a weakened villain and had no regen like Cell or Majin Buu. Potara had made him unstable. I doubt Trunks Spirit Sword would have sliced a fresh Merged Zamasu up as easily. And it would have done NOTHING against Majin Buu. But in reality, was Trunks showing up and getting the kill anymore of a bullshit way then the Genki Dama killing Buu? Yes...and no. The Genki Dama here was full of energy from Earth, plus Goku getting his energy restored. But up to this point the Genki Dama had never killed anything.

Finally Trunks learning the Mafuba. Um.....Goku learnt the Kamehameha instantly, and Kuririn, and Yamucha, and Tenshinhan. Cell learned Instant Transmission somehow. Buu learned Instant Transmission AND the Kamehameha by watching Goku. When has Dragon Ball not made learning attacks a piece of cake? Tenshinhan learnt the Mafuba in think was an afternoon, Trunks at this point is much more a battle hardend warrior then Tenshinhan. (I will agree the whole Mafuba subplot was pointless anyway)

Why is Super so much more hated then Z for doing much of the exact same things? Including strange retcons that completely go against what characters said in a previous arc.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm hoping someone can tell me what is really so different about Trunks and as kinda an extension Super that makes it so Dragon Ball gets praised and these similar or even same elements in Super get criticized.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Gafonso6 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:11 am

One word, nostalgia. People saw Dragon Ball Z when they were kids, and kids don't care about asspuls. And the same people who saw DBZ when they were kids are adults and are seeing Super with adult eyes, but thanks to nostalgia glases they till see DBZ as kids, so they can't see the flaws or refuse to see them.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:46 am

The Dragon Ball fandom clearly has a problem when it comes to understanding a simple thing: just because bullshit happened before does not excuse bullshit happening now though I don't agree with all the examples shown here.

Gohan, when Raditz appears, is a character still under construction and the rage boosts, despite them becoming a tired cliche, are set up as a staple of his powers from the beginning. If most of Z happened then Gohan started getting random rage power-ups in say the Boo arc only (like fucking Vegeta, Goku and Trunks are in Super) that'd be a problem.

Super Saiyan FU (Ikari) IS just as bad as SS3 and the Ultimate state for its randomness but at least 3 and Ultimate have some kind of explanation for them in-universe or in supplementary material, Ikari has nothing and probably will never get anything of the sort.

The Spirt Sword is also total horse shit, yes it is very fitting for Trunks to do so but unlike other stories I've seen where the thematic pay off comes at the expense of consistency, the arc we've got isn't good enough to warrant the leeway for this case. Nor are the "themes" really that well developed, especially once Zamasu becomes little more than an incomprehensible lunatic twisted in his own insane troll logic. The Spirit Sword is like if Naruto went to fight Pain and then get a perfect Sage Mode except, unlike the actual story where he trains and works for it, he just randomly pulls it out of his ass and can use it better than Jiraya immediately.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:07 am

ekrolo2 wrote:The Dragon Ball fandom clearly has a problem when it comes to understanding a simple thing: just because bullshit happened before does not excuse bullshit happening now though I don't agree with all the examples shown here.

Gohan, when Raditz appears, is a character still under construction and the rage boosts, despite them becoming a tired cliche, are set up as a staple of his powers from the beginning. If most of Z happened then Gohan started getting random rage power-ups in say the Boo arc only (like fucking Vegeta, Goku and Trunks are in Super) that'd be a problem.

Super Saiyan FU (Ikari) IS just as bad as SS3 and the Ultimate state for its randomness but at least 3 and Ultimate have some kind of explanation for them in-universe or in supplementary material, Ikari has nothing and probably will never get anything of the sort.

The Spirt Sword is also total horse shit, yes it is very fitting for Trunks to do so but unlike other stories I've seen where the thematic pay off comes at the expense of consistency, the arc we've got isn't good enough to warrant the leeway for this case. Nor are the "themes" really that well developed, especially once Zamasu becomes little more than an incomprehensible lunatic twisted in his own insane troll logic. The Spirit Sword is like if Naruto went to fight Pain and then get a perfect Sage Mode except, unlike the actual story where he trains and works for it, he just randomly pulls it out of his ass and can use it better than Jiraya immediately.
I will agree Ikari and Spirit Sword could have been a lot better. But so could have SSj3 and much the stuff the fanbase give a pass for simply cause of nostalgia. I wasn't defending Ikari and the Spirit Sword, I was defending Ikari and the Spirit Sword in contrast to SSj3, Ultimate, Fusion, Super Genki Dama, Etc. Basically I was asking why Z gets a free pass with some bullshit while Super gets mauled.

As for Ikari not being explained. SSj2 wasn't explained for what, two years? SSj3 I still have no idea what it is other then "the next evolution" and why in hell Gotenks can freaking do it. The first episode after Trunks when Ikari the rage started. Bullshit power up this, god ki asspull that. Super set up god ki can be obtained without the ritual with Vegeta. Gohan set up half bloods can get rage boosts (And Vegeta for some reason). Trunks never has gotten angry before in Z. He's always been pretty calm and calculated, which is why it's such a grand moment when he actually DOES get angry in Super. Isn't it common for shonen to give a main character a massive power boost to get the win towards the end anyway? Jotaro learning ZA WARUDO! Speaking of Naruto, Naruto and Sasuke getting Six Paths cause plot. HELL! Hunter X Hunter (My 2nd fav anime) with Gon's fight against Pitou, where the hell did that form come from?! Gon basically goes the HXH equivilant of SSj Ikari. I will compliment in Dragon Ball SSj1 and SSj2 were built up throughout their entire arcs. You don't see that often in shonen and that was repeated again with SSjGod to much praise (the forms visuals aside despite my love for it)

I find Vegeta funny though, Trunks dying=no rage boost. Bulma gets slapped=greater then SSj3 rage boost. Now that's kinda an asspull. Trunks demonstrating abilities at least 3 other characters have demonstrated in the series at this point. Asspull?
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Yedis » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:10 am

Huge power jumps are not new to the story of Dragon Ball, however I can understand the asspull criticism because there is no foreshadowing or good explanations for the events that happened in last arc.

Examples:
In Z Gohan went from weaker than Cui to trading blows with Frieza in the same arc. I do agree with you that if something similar happened in Super, people would lose their shit. However they told us that Gohan has a lot of potential, gets stronger when his angry, etc, etc.

In the Future Trunks arc, Future Trunks went from Base Form Goku Black one shotting him to being able to push back SSJR Goku Black, with no explanation why. We the audience know Future Trunks has become stronger but how??? They only showed 1 training session with Vegeta. There is no acknowledgement he is more powerful now by anybody until the end of the arc after the Merged Zamasu battle.

I think that is the difference between Super and Z, is Z did a much better job explaining the power jumps, even if they are a bit nonsensical

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Kishido » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:12 am

It's nor even compareable but I'm done with it... Simply will forget it and still enjoy Super

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:59 am

Because asspulls in Z usually had a build up or at the very least it tried to pretend it had one, while Super just doesn't give a damn lol
Maybe that will change though, I'm eagerly anticipating February.

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:06 am

NintendoBlaze53 wrote: But so could have SSj3 and much the stuff the fanbase give a pass for simply cause of nostalgia.
What exactly are we supposed to do, Complain about something which has happened 20+ years ago? Write a petition?
Super is an ongoing show we can do something about, at the very least complain, it provides absolutely no context of that form, it's a huge asspull..

Can anyone even explain what that form is? Hybrid god? Any god ki involved? Is it a super Saiyan level beyond 3 which matches godly level but no god ki?
Hell nobody even named it anything in the show itself..

Ikari dosen't make a shred of sense, even the original ss was triggered by rage, it's pure bullshit with no known elements to connect it to the story..
It's would be the same if trunks turned into a magical girl and cross dressed out of nowhere then burned zamasu up with his love beam.

And don't even get me started on the spirit sword thing, that's stupidity at its finest..
Could have easily have let goku make the spirit bomb and trunks absorb it to slash zamasu, but no, gotta keep one thing consistent, the asspulls..

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:10 am

Gohan is a walking asspull and most people seem to think so. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that he isn't.

Goku's only asspull was SS3.

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:51 am

The Future Trunks arc is my favourite arc in all of Dragon Ball and I'll be the first one to say that the finale of the arc has its foundation built on conveniences and contrivance. Stuff like Future Trunks getting a rage boost transformation really is no different to when Vegeta became a SSJ off-screen with no explanation, or when Goku became a SSJ3 with zero foreshadowing or when Gohan conveniently had even more potential to be unlocked. Super's asspulls are really no better or worse than what we saw in Dragon Ball (Z). I mean, everyone knows the Genki Dama Sword is totally fucking nonsense. But the the symbolism behind it, as well as how well animated it was, as well as Future Trunks being the one to deal the fatal strike and and as well as it just looking pretty cool was enough for people forgive the lack of any sense behind the scene. It's the same deal with Vegeta becoming a SSJ for the first time. In the manga, there's zero explanation given, while in the anime the reason Vegeta gave as to how he attained the form flies right in the face of everything that happened on Namek and retroactively ruins all of the symbolism with regards to how Goku became a SSJ in the first place. But because for a lot of people Vegeta had suffered so much on Namek, they were willing to brush all that aside because they felt he deserved that moment. Goku pulls right out of his ass. I mean, he flat out states he has no idea how he's going to be able to confront Majin Boo, let alone to defeat him, and then... poof... SSJ3. And that moment is made even worse because of the fact that Goku states he could have defeated Majin Boo at that time with the form. But because the form looks wildly cool and the power up scene, especially with regards to the original FUNi dub, was so great, it's a another one of those instances where we don't take into consideration the absurdities that lead up to the moment and just enjoy everything about that moment for all it's worth because it was enjoyable to witness. And Gohan... that guy was just a walking plot device.

It's all a matter of perspective for some fans. Some fans can tolerate more bullshit than other fans can. The character who is also benefiting from the asspull is a major factor into how certain fans will assess the scenario.
PsionicWarrior wrote:Because asspulls in Z usually had a build up or at the very least it tried to pretend it had one, while Super just doesn't give a damn
And asspull that has buildup is still an asspull.
Doctor. wrote:Goku's only asspull was SS3.
Are we going to forget his ability to read minds? Which was only done once.

EDIT: Just remembered another major asspull... Vegetto defusing in Majin Boo.
EDIT 2: And another one... Kid Boo's entire existence.
EDIT 3: It's all coming back to me now... how did Cell mange to survive and regenerate when Goku blew his head off despite the fact that the nucleus that power his regeneration was destroyed in the process?

Yeah, see, this sort of shit would never fly if it happened in Super.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Cetra » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:54 am

Lord Beerus wrote:I mean, everyone knows the Genki Dama Sword is totally fucking nonsense.
I don't even think it was non-sense. It is a fictional classic. "United we stand and overcome every obstacle because we have something to fight for". And no matter how much the fans want to deny it, it happens in Dragon Ball all the time, even if not exactly like this and not seeing that it happened in Dragon Ball before is just some heavy denying once again.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:55 am

Doctor. wrote:Gohan is a walking asspull and most people seem to think so. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that he isn't.

Goku's only asspull was SS3.
Super Holy Water in the King Piccolo arc was a Goku asspull. And I get the idea from the fact that Gohan is always hyped while Trunks seems almost universally hated now.

a lot of people missed my point. I wasn't saying Trunks stuff was perfect, I was saying it's crazy that it gets as much hate as it does compared to moments on Z where the same damn trope hapens. I've said as much in my OP. I won't defend Trunks as the pinnacle of Shonen writing, or Super. But people are comparing forms that have had 20 years of knowledge to a form with 5 months knowledge. When we should be looking at how much we know about SSj2 and SSj3 a few months after those forms were revealed. Answer, NOTHING WAS KNOWN! SSj2 wasn't even named, it took months to be named SSj2, kinda like what happened with SSj Ikari. But Ikari is a shit asspull because it dosen't have 20 years of world building after its reveal?
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:57 am

Lord Beerus wrote:The Future Trunks arc is my favourite arc in all of Dragon Ball and I'll be the first one to say that the finale of the arc has its foundation built on conveniences and contrivance. Stuff like Future Trunks getting a rage boost transformation really is no different to when Vegeta became a SSJ off-screen with no explanation, or when Goku became a SSJ3 with zero foreshadowing or when Gohan conveniently had even more potential to be unlocked. Super's asspulls are really no better or worse than what we saw in Dragon Ball (Z). I mean, everyone knows the Genki Dama Sword is totally fucking nonsense. But the the symbolism behind it, as well as how well animated it was, as well as Future Trunks being the one to deal the fatal strike and and as well as it just looking pretty cool was enough for people forgive the lack of any sense behind the scene. It's the same deal with Vegeta becoming a SSJ for the first time. In the manga, there's zero explanation given, while in the anime the reason Vegeta gave as to how he attained the form flies right in the face of everything that happened on Namek and retroactively ruins all of the symbolism with regards to how Goku became a SSJ in the first place. But because for a lot of people Vegeta had suffered so much on Namek, they were willing to brush all that aside because they felt he deserved that moment. Goku pulls right out of his ass. I mean, he flat out states he has no idea how he's going to be able to confront Majin Boo, let alone to defeat him, and then... poof... SSJ3. And that moment is made even worse because of the fact that Goku states he could have defeated Majin Boo at that time with the form. But because the form looks wildly cool and the power up scene, especially with regards to the original FUNi dub, was so great, it's a nother one of those instances where we don't take into consideration and the absurdities that lead up to the moment and just enjoy everything abouy that moment for all it's worst because it was enjoyable to witness. And Gohan... that guy was just a walking plot device.

It's all a matter of perspective for some fans. Some fans can tolerate more bullshit than other fans can. The character who is also benefiting from the asspull is a major factor into how certain fans will assess the scenario.
PsionicWarrior wrote:Because asspulls in Z usually had a build up or at the very least it tried to pretend it had one, while Super just doesn't give a damn
And asspull that has buildup is still an asspull.
Doctor. wrote:Goku's only asspull was SS3.
Are we going to forget his ability to read minds. Which was only done once.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This is exactly what I was trying to say but my bad train of thought made it hard.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:58 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Are we going to forget his ability to read minds. Which was only done once.
Yeah, I completely forgot about that, since he only used it once.
NintendoBlaze53 wrote:Super Holy Water in the King Piccolo arc was a Goku asspull. And I get the idea from the fact that Gohan is always hyped while Trunks seems almost universally hated now.
That wasn't really a Goku asspull. It was a story asspull that benefited Goku.

Gohan's rage boosts have never been praised in this forum. You're probably talking about other communities like Youtube, which always have been blinded by nostalgia.

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:04 am

Doctor. wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Are we going to forget his ability to read minds. Which was only done once.
Yeah, I completely forgot about that, since he only used it once.
NintendoBlaze53 wrote:Super Holy Water in the King Piccolo arc was a Goku asspull. And I get the idea from the fact that Gohan is always hyped while Trunks seems almost universally hated now.
That wasn't really a Goku asspull. It was a story asspull that benefited Goku.

Gohan's rage boosts have never been praised in this forum. You're probably talking about other communities like Youtube, which always have been blinded by nostalgia.
But isn't the Spirit Sword also a story asspull that benefits Trunks? He didn't make it, the will of the survivors made it, he just accepted the energy and won that way. Trunks never asked for the energy and will or created the technique it was more of a "Hey, bunch of energy, thanks"
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:16 am

NintendoBlaze53 wrote:But isn't the Spirit Sword also a story asspull that benefits Trunks? He didn't make it, the will of the survivors made it, he just accepted the energy and won that way. Trunks never asked for the energy and will or created the technique it was more of a "Hey, bunch of energy, thanks"
A Genkidama is made by the user, the energy doesn't gather by itself. Trunks did it unconsciously whilst having no idea of how to use the technique, that's why it's so bad.

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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:23 am

NintendoBlaze53 wrote:I will agree Ikari and Spirit Sword could have been a lot better. But so could have SSj3 and much the stuff the fanbase give a pass for simply cause of nostalgia. I wasn't defending Ikari and the Spirit Sword, I was defending Ikari and the Spirit Sword in contrast to SSj3, Ultimate, Fusion, Super Genki Dama, Etc. Basically I was asking why Z gets a free pass with some bullshit while Super gets mauled.

As for Ikari not being explained. SSj2 wasn't explained for what, two years? SSj3 I still have no idea what it is other then "the next evolution" and why in hell Gotenks can freaking do it. The first episode after Trunks when Ikari the rage started. Bullshit power up this, god ki asspull that. Super set up god ki can be obtained without the ritual with Vegeta. Gohan set up half bloods can get rage boosts (And Vegeta for some reason). Trunks never has gotten angry before in Z. He's always been pretty calm and calculated, which is why it's such a grand moment when he actually DOES get angry in Super. Isn't it common for shonen to give a main character a massive power boost to get the win towards the end anyway? Jotaro learning ZA WARUDO! Speaking of Naruto, Naruto and Sasuke getting Six Paths cause plot. HELL! Hunter X Hunter (My 2nd fav anime) with Gon's fight against Pitou, where the hell did that form come from?! Gon basically goes the HXH equivilant of SSj Ikari. I will compliment in Dragon Ball SSj1 and SSj2 were built up throughout their entire arcs. You don't see that often in shonen and that was repeated again with SSjGod to much praise (the forms visuals aside despite my love for it)

I find Vegeta funny though, Trunks dying=no rage boost. Bulma gets slapped=greater then SSj3 rage boost. Now that's kinda an asspull. Trunks demonstrating abilities at least 3 other characters have demonstrated in the series at this point. Asspull?
Z gets a pass because of nostalgia and moronic fantard headcanons that have no basis in anything ever serving as their "explanations" for why SS3 is totes badass and perfectly reasonable when it isn't, two chapters before it shows up Goku straight up says he's only as strong as Vegeta was and can't fight Boo period.

I also don't excuse Trunks' bullshit rage boost because Trunks has lived his entire live surrouned by desolation and death and yet you expect me to believe he NEVER snapped against 17 and 18 to get a good enough power up to kill either of them? Fucking really? After they kill Gohan too?! REALLY?! No, its a contrived story development and I don't give a fuck if every other Shonen does it, if everyone started shooting themselves in the groin would that make it any less random and stupid just because it's part of the standard? No! Dumb shit remains dumb shit even if people make it part of the standard.

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks should not get rage boosts period and the fact they all suddenly do not only goes against Z ( the thing this POS is supposedly a sequel to) but it doesn't even retroactively make any sense. Goku didn't get a rage boost when Tamburine killed Krillin, Vegeta gets blood curdling rage every time he's on the receiving end of a curb stomp and he never increases in power from it and I already explained why Trunks is moronic up above.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:45 pm

They're not different, that still doesn't fix the problem.

Also, about the Mafuba, my issue is that it makes Goku look like an amateur.
I mean, yeah it's true that hybrids have more potential, but Goku is still a fighting genious as well, so seeing Trunks doing this in minutes bothers me.
Also, the scene was rushed and done too fast and quickly, the only enjoyable thing about this was the dialogue between Zamasu and Trunks/Mai.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:08 pm

ekrolo2 wrote: I also don't excuse Trunks' bullshit rage boost because Trunks has lived his entire live surrouned by desolation and death and yet you expect me to believe he NEVER snapped against 17 and 18 to get a good enough power up to kill either of them? Fucking really? After they kill Gohan too?! REALLY?! No, its a contrived story development and I don't give a fuck if every other Shonen does it, if everyone started shooting themselves in the groin would that make it any less random and stupid just because it's part of the standard? No! Dumb shit remains dumb shit even if people make it part of the standard.
But Trunks asspull power was a transformation in the end, not a rage boost, in this case (while still being a bullshit power up) wouldn't it make sense that his transformation was triggered by rage like any other ssj transformation?

Also, i don't think that iraki or whatever tried to like make us believe that Trunks never snapped before, because we know he did, in fact, in ep 52's flashback Trunks snapped when he transformed into a super saiyan. In ep 61, Trunks snapped because PTSD and guilty feelings, he was being blamed for everything that happened and in fact it was true that he fucked up things by going to the past, so he had to remember every single thing that had happened, all those people dying, his mother dying, everyone in danger, all those promises that he made about fixing everything to realize that he might be the one responsible for all those terrible events that happened in the future and that everything he did trying to fix the problem and save everyone, made things worse. That's really messed up :crazy:

The transformation itself is still an asspull and things could have been better handled, but in-universe perspective it makes sense that Trunks, being equal in power to a ssj 3 Goku in the manga with just his ssj2, and equal to a ssj 2 Goku in the anime who's stronger than the Goku in Z (as we saw in RoF movie, end of BoG movie, BoG arc, and RoF arc) could achieve a new stronger transformation in a similar way to ssj 2. It's still stupid because there is no explanation to what exactly is this level of power, there's nothing said by the characters in-universe, and it could have been better handled with a better execution.
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Re: How is Trunks' moments anymore of an ass pull then Gohan/Goku?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:21 pm

dbs fanboy wrote:But Trunks asspull power was a transformation in the end, not a rage boost, in this case (while still being a bullshit power up) wouldn't it make sense that his transformation was triggered by rage like any other ssj transformation?

Also, i don't think that iraki or whatever tried to like make us believe that Trunks never snapped before, because we know he did, in fact, in ep 52's flashback Trunks snapped when he transformed into a super saiyan. In ep 61, Trunks snapped because PTSD and guilty feelings, he was being blamed for everything that happened and in fact it was true that he fucked up things by going to the past, so he had to remember every single thing that had happened, all those people dying, his mother dying, everyone in danger, all those promises that he made about fixing everything to realize that he might be the one responsible to all those terrible events that happened in the future and that everything he did trying to fix the problem and save everyone, made things worse. That's really messed up :crazy:

The transformation itself is still an asspull and things could have been better handled, but in-universe perspective it makes sense that Trunks, being equal in power to a ssj 3 Goku in the manga with just his ssj2, and equal to a ssj 2 Goku in the anime who's stronger than the Goku in Z (as we saw in RoF movie, end of BoG movie, BoG arc, and RoF arc) could achieve a new stronger transformation in a similar way to ssj 2. It's still stupid because there is no explanation to what exactly is this level of power, there's nothing said by the characters in-universe, and it could have been better handled with a better execution.
Trunks being even initially as strong as he is total lunacy that you cannot justify or use as a justification for Super *fuck logic* Trunks existing.

The only form that really needs anger is SS1 really and even that's not the case when in the manga, Kid Trunks and Goten have it just fine and Future Trunks already has it before Gohan died. SS2 is attainable without anger as seen by Goku and Vegeta, SS3 too, 4 is probably the antithesis of them all since you need to calm down from a berzerker rage to get it, SSGod doesn't need anger either and Blue's power is described as being calm. Super *fuck logic* Trunks is clearly meant to be some quasi-Blue thing if the aura is any indication so that makes it even more moronic for a calm form with perfect ki control get attained through anger. Even the brief snippets of Whis' training for Goku and Vegeta showed us that Blue primarily seems to come from keeping a level head and composing yourself to use ki carefully so it doesn't leak.

This is also a bit unrelated but Black's whole "your sins are what make me do this Trunks!" is also totally forced since Black has no idea Trunks can time travel period before he goes through the crack in time and for a guy who can't shut up, there's no way Black WOULDN'T have used this to taunt and provoke Trunks into doing something stupid during the year they spent fighting one another.
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