I don't understand the Dragon Ball fandom when it comes to Super

[Yomi]

That's just a vocal minority of Falconer boys that "ran home from school" for Toonami, I don't pay attention to them.

[kinisking]

gohan never wanted to be that. he was forced by piccolo and goku, which is actually the biggest critism against goku as a father.

The situation is a lot more complicated than you're trying to say. There is 3 ways they could've taken Gohan's character.

1: He fights like he always did in Z. Gohan doesn't like to fight but he DOES like to protect. As long as there are people to protect, Gohan would and should fight. The story can easily be written to put him into fighting, and Z proves that. He can also be a scholar. It's not like being one makes the other impossible.
2 Gohan is a pure scholar. However he can use this to benefit the Z-fighters just like Bulma does.
3. The way they took. To literally take him out of the fucking show. Yet, Gohan fans are supposed to be happy because they made one aspect of his character his only aspect WHILE also using it as a way to write him out. The fuck?

he can't be both not unless he is forced like he was in z. that's my biggest problem with gohan fans. they refuse to accept the fact that gohan never wanted to do any of that and he was forced to.

don't forget that a lot of gohan's ability to actually be in the show came from unique circumstances. it was never training he did alone like the others because he never had a passion.

gohan can't be like bulma because bulma can do everything or do you want him to be like the other z humans show up to get dropped because he doesn't train oh wait they did that and people were pissed.

No one refuses to accept the fact that Gohan didn't like fighting. At the end of the day he's still willing to fight when people need him. No ones out there forcing him to fight, he does it because he wants to help. Gohan chose to go back for goku I'm the Saiyan saga against Krillin a will, Gohan chose to go to namek, Gohan chose to train against the androids, Gohan chose to go against cell, Gohan chose to fight super boo. He couldn't wait until the ritual was done because Gohan likes helping. He's not just some dude that twiddles his thumbs around while others are in danger. Gohan has a strong sense of justice. Yeah he doesn't like it, but he does it of his own free will. You can't just take the part of him that doesn't like fighting and ignore the rest. This is my biggest problem with you guys that tend to generalize the Gohan fan base. You scream out "he doesn't like fighting" then close your ears.

Was it circumstance that lead him to train consistently from 5-11? After the Saiyan saga, Gohan was the one who decided that he wanted to train. No one else. He doesn't have the passion for fighting like Goku so he doesn't do it all the time , but when he'd needed he tries his best.

"because Bulma can do everything " isn't a fact. Gohan can be utilized in other ways. In dragonball online he made a book that helped everyone use Ki and I think that's a great idea for his character.

Because him getting dropped is the only possibility for his character? Fiction is limitless.

You're acting like they're no use for Gohans character and they'res no way to write him but the Z part of the story proves you wrong.

Also, guess what? Fiction is best when the characters aren't always happy. That's why the main essence of fiction is conflict. That's why people wanted dbs to be darker. That's why people want villains. I want Gohan to be happy with videl and pan, but I also want him to recognize that he needs to be strong to ensure he can continue to have that happy life. It's something he recognized in episode 27 of the show and I want that elaborated on.

Our characters aren't only defined by the things we like but also by the way we behave when having to do things we don't like.

[Totamo]

The situation is a lot more complicated than you're trying to say. There is 3 ways they could've taken Gohan's character.

1: He fights like he always did in Z. Gohan doesn't like to fight but he DOES like to protect. As long as there are people to protect, Gohan would and should fight. The story can easily be written to put him into fighting, and Z proves that. He can also be a scholar. It's not like being one makes the other impossible.
2 Gohan is a pure scholar. However he can use this to benefit the Z-fighters just like Bulma does.
3. The way they took. To literally take him out of the fucking show. Yet, Gohan fans are supposed to be happy because they made one aspect of his character his only aspect WHILE also using it as a way to write him out. The fuck?

he can't be both not unless he is forced like he was in z. that's my biggest problem with gohan fans. they refuse to accept the fact that gohan never wanted to do any of that and he was forced to.

don't forget that a lot of gohan's ability to actually be in the show came from unique circumstances. it was never training he did alone like the others because he never had a passion.

gohan can't be like bulma because bulma can do everything or do you want him to be like the other z humans show up to get dropped because he doesn't train oh wait they did that and people were pissed.

No one refuses to accept the fact that Gohan didn't like fighting. At the end of the day he's still willing to fight when people need him. No ones out there forcing him to fight, he does it because he wants to help. Gohan chose to go back for goku I'm the Saiyan saga against Krillin a will, Gohan chose to go to namek, Gohan chose to train against the androids, Gohan chose to go against cell, Gohan chose to fight super boo. He couldn't wait until the ritual was done because Gohan likes helping. He's not just some dude that twiddles his thumbs around while others are in danger. Gohan has a strong sense of justice. Yeah he doesn't like it, but he does it of his own free will. You can't just take the part of him that doesn't like fighting and ignore the rest. This is my biggest problem with you guys that tend to generalize the Gohan fan base. You scream out "he doesn't like fighting" then close your ears.

Was it circumstance that lead him to train consistently from 5-11? After the Saiyan saga, Gohan was the one who decided that he wanted to train. No one else. He doesn't have the passion for fighting like Goku so he doesn't do it all the time , but when he'd needed he tries his best.

"because Bulma can do everything " isn't a fact. Gohan can be utilized in other ways. In dragonball online he made a book that helped everyone use Ki and I think that's a great idea for his character.

Because him getting dropped is the only possibility for his character? Fiction is limitless.

You're acting like they're no use for Gohans character and they'res no way to write him but the Z part of the story proves you wrong.

Also, guess what? Fiction is best when the characters aren't always happy. That's why the main essence of fiction is conflict. That's why people wanted dbs to be darker. That's why people want villains. I want Gohan to be happy with videl and pan, but I also want him to recognize that he needs to be strong to ensure he can continue to have that happy life. It's something he recognized in episode 27 of the show and I want that elaborated on.

Our characters aren't only defined by the things we like but also by the way we behave when having to do things we don't like.

Wow, did you actually watch Z? Because the misimformation here.
Gohan wanting to go back help to his dad has nothing do with his will to help but by the fact that he had to. Not chose to
Funny thing is if it wasnt for piccolo forcing gohan in the first place, he wouldn't even be in that position.

Gohan didn't choose to train against the androids, Goku asked him because he needed a training partner. Funny thing is, Gohan didn't even train for those 3 years goku was in space. Meaning if goku never showed up, gohan never would have done a thing. In that same arc, its goku that had to make goku even fight cell. Its also goku who was screaming at his son to destroy cell because your sense of justice character got carried away and gave up against cell the second time, if it wasn't for goku again, gohan would have died.

Gohan choosing to go to namek has nothing to do with fighting but because he felt responsible for piccolo's death. They didn't even frieza was on the planet. For all they knew it was a simple pick up and fix.

For 7 years , gohan did nothing. gohan choosing to fight buu, is what you use as an example. If it wasn't for goku and gotenks playing around with buu, gohan never would have even had to fight. so yes, he was still forced.

Gohan is not a fighter, nor does his choices mean that he will train to be to help. There is a not single time where gohan is training based of his own free will. That epiosde 27 was just fanservice done by toei and you know that. They are not going to do anything with him because his character arc is done.


Then there is your point about fiction needing conflict, which is completely false. the whole point of fiction is entertainment and expression. There are many shows out there with no drama or bad things happening to the characters that are very well entertained.

Now action fiction needs conflict but only for those are relevant to the plot and for dragon ball those are people who have a passion for fighting. People don't don't want dbs to be darker or villains because of that. Z was darker than ball and most people got to dragon ball because of that. People want villains because they want the heros to fight because it is what dragon ball to a lot of people is what its all about.

We have dragon balls, why would people care about conflict?

Also you do realize that any master of ki could have written that book about ki, right? Hell, goku can even do it.

Bulma built a time machine and a dragon radar and a space ship, I'm pretty sure bulma can do anything a scholar can.

a good character doesn't have to suffer to become a good character, they just have to do things that relate with the audience.

The last thing I have to say to you is this, goku and vegeta are the protectors of earth, if something happens they will handle it and if they can't gohan definitely can't. And before you say they won't be there forever, thats why we have uub

[Miracles]

before super cane out people complained about so many things. goku was just a plot device in z and had no character like he did in ball. the humans don't do anything. goku always wins. majinbuu sucks, gotenks is annoying. vegito was an asspull . the cell saga should have focused on trunks more.

super happens. Goku does normal stuff, people say he sucks now. the humans are going be in the tournament, it should be goten trunks and namekians. goku rarely wins, people call him a loser. buu doesn't fight in the u6 tournament, people say it's a bad writing. fusion is basically thrown out, people get pissed.

that's not even counting the character complaints, there are moments they are exaggerated but people make it seem like they acts like this all the time. goku has shown all the sides that make him goku, but people only want him to be serious all the time. vegeta is actually a good person and puts his pride aside to protect earth, the same pride that destroyed earth in the buu saga. people say he is not badass anymore because he is not an arrogant twat. then there are gohan fans who can't accept that he doesn't nor ever did want to be like his father. That was his introduction line.

"But he can do both" No he can'tbecause he would have train for extensive messures of time to maintain the power he had in z.

then they are people with a bad memory who think GT did characters better despite one of the most common cons brought up is how goku is a kid, pan is annoying, trunks is a wimp and z fighters literally made a novice mistake with super 17 which resulted in their defeat aND thats not even talking about the fact that they were all weaker.

I felt like I was enjoying the show better when I wasn't hearing all these conflicting complaints.

"Death and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied."- Proverbs 27

[mabalia]

That's just a vocal minority of Falconer boys that "ran home from school" for Toonami, I don't pay attention to them.

Do you realize there are people here that grew up watching different dubs, right? And some of them were made closer to the japanese dub, that I also watched some years ago.

[Bansho64]

That's just a vocal minority of Falconer boys that "ran home from school" for Toonami, I don't pay attention to them.

Do you realize there are people here that grew up watching different dubs, right? And some of them were made closer to the japanese dub, that I also watched some years ago.

Yeah, not all of these criticisms are coming from that group that Yomi is specifying. This is beyond just one certain section of the English-speaking. It's pretty ignorant to just put these labels on that section only.

I've heard a lot of these same criticisms come from people who have grown up with the Latin American dub, the Brazilian dub, the German dub, and so on and so forth.

And these are dubs, at least the first two, that were much closer to the Japanese script and used the original score.

[mabalia]

That's just a vocal minority of Falconer boys that "ran home from school" for Toonami, I don't pay attention to them.

Do you realize there are people here that grew up watching different dubs, right? And some of them were made closer to the japanese dub, that I also watched some years ago.

Yeah, not all of these criticisms are coming from that group that Yomi is specifying. This is beyond just one certain section of the English-speaking. It's pretty ignorant to just put these labels on that section only.

I've heard a lot of these same criticisms come from people who have grown up with the Latin American dub, the Brazilian dub, the German dub, and so on and so forth.

And these are dubs, at least the first two, that were much closer to the Japanese script and used the original score.

Yes, I watched the brazilian dub and I don't have any complaint about the work done here.

[Nightzus]

Um... what? The only character who got more screen time in DBZ than Goku was Gohan. It only when Cell debuted that his screen-time from that point on became more reduced and even then he's still integral to the plot.

After Radditz, Goku barely got any focus in the Saiyan arc besides a few of his Snake Way adventures and King Kai training. He only fought Vegeta for about 3 episodes before he was out of commision.

He's gone the entire first half of the Namek arc besides when we see him training on his ship. He fights Ginyu briefly and is out of commission again until the end of Freeza's forms. He then gets screentime there, is gone for Garlic Jr. and when Cyborg Freeza comes to Earth.

He stops fighting 19 early on when he gets his heart virus and is gone the majority of the Cell arc. Then he fights Cell for 3-4 episodes and is again done for the saga.

In the Buu arc he gets some focus early on, then it shifts entirely to Gohan, then Vegeta, then Trunks/Goten and Gotenks, then Gohan again, then Vegito (which I don't count for Goku), and then finally Goku for the Kid Buu stuff.

So what screentime did Goku get in DBZ? In Super he's been the star constantly and even most of the filler episodes are about him.

You know he also fought Nappa in the Saiyan arc, right? As well has still having a central role in the Saiyan arc by handing Krillin the Genki Dama and communicating with Gohan while he was an Oozaru. Keep in mind, Goku was crippled at this stage but that mean his character wasn't a focal point.

I will admit, Goku does sit out a good portion of the Namek arc, but once he takes part in it, he's all over the place. He battles Jeice, Recoome, Burter and Ginyu (twice) in several episodes. Then gets put out of commission for a several episodes before coming back to battle Freeza in the longest fight in all of Dragon Ball. His battle with Freeza takes up nearly a 1/4 of the whole Namek/Freeza arc. Yes, the fight is that long.

Then when the Androids roll around, he talks and spars with Future Trunks, fights 19, arrives the save Piccolo and Tien from Cell, trains for quite a while with Gohan in the ROSAT, fights Cell for several episodes and even in death plays major part in helping Gohan defeat Cell.

The Majin Boo arc is truly the only arc I confidently say that Goku takes a back seat and Gohan is legitimately treated as the main character, instead of being part of an ensemble cast like before. But once he returns at the WMAT, which is not even 1/5 of the arc's length, he has strong presence in the arc whether it's battling Babidi's minions, fighting Majin Boo himself, teaching Goten and Trunks about the Fusion Dance, watching over Gohan and Gotenks fights Super Boo or training with Gohan on the Sacred World of the Kai. And once Gotenks is absorbed he's virtually becomes the main character again.

And of course that's not even taking into consideration the filler episodes. Which include episodes that have centred around such scenarios as Goku learning about his Saiyan heritage from King Kai, his exploits with Princess Snake, falling into Hell and running into Goz and Mez, searching for the Dragon Balls in the 10 day period before the start of the Cell Games, Gohan's birthday and his battles in the Other World Tournament arc.

Trust me, Goku was all over the place in Z. The only character who was more prevalent in Z was Gohan.

Exactly that.

Saying that Goku is a nobody in DBZ in like saying "Jesus is a nobody" to christian people. Screentime does not define how important and prevalent a character can be. Goku is all over the place, at least in people's mind and dialogue.
How could you be irrelevant to the plot when every major villain was defeated thanks to you? Vegeta, Freeza, Cell, Buu were all either killed or defeated thanks to Goku.

If Goku had been a nobody, who would have given the hope to the Earthlings to keep going in the Saiyan arc, defeating one of the bad guy so easily and leading a wonderful fight against the big one?
Who would have helped in defeating the Ginyu tokusentai, transformed in SSJ and saved the (eternal) day on Namek?
Who would have trained Gohan to master SSJ and to make him awaken SSJ2, sacrificed himself to save Earth or actually supporting Gohan in his famous Father-Son Kamehameha? (Even dead is so relevant)
Arguably, I'd even say the Majin Buu arc was when Goku was all over the place: Tenkaichi Budokai, Majin Vegeta fight, SSJ3, teaching the fusion technique (the arc would have ended there if it wasn't for the fusion), being there with Gohan in the Kaiohsin realm, fusing with Vegeta, fighting Pure Buu and actually defeating him.

Yes, Goku was all over the place.

[kinisking]

he can't be both not unless he is forced like he was in z. that's my biggest problem with gohan fans. they refuse to accept the fact that gohan never wanted to do any of that and he was forced to.

don't forget that a lot of gohan's ability to actually be in the show came from unique circumstances. it was never training he did alone like the others because he never had a passion.

gohan can't be like bulma because bulma can do everything or do you want him to be like the other z humans show up to get dropped because he doesn't train oh wait they did that and people were pissed.

No one refuses to accept the fact that Gohan didn't like fighting. At the end of the day he's still willing to fight when people need him. No ones out there forcing him to fight, he does it because he wants to help. Gohan chose to go back for goku I'm the Saiyan saga against Krillin a will, Gohan chose to go to namek, Gohan chose to train against the androids, Gohan chose to go against cell, Gohan chose to fight super boo. He couldn't wait until the ritual was done because Gohan likes helping. He's not just some dude that twiddles his thumbs around while others are in danger. Gohan has a strong sense of justice. Yeah he doesn't like it, but he does it of his own free will. You can't just take the part of him that doesn't like fighting and ignore the rest. This is my biggest problem with you guys that tend to generalize the Gohan fan base. You scream out "he doesn't like fighting" then close your ears.

Was it circumstance that lead him to train consistently from 5-11? After the Saiyan saga, Gohan was the one who decided that he wanted to train. No one else. He doesn't have the passion for fighting like Goku so he doesn't do it all the time , but when he'd needed he tries his best.

"because Bulma can do everything " isn't a fact. Gohan can be utilized in other ways. In dragonball online he made a book that helped everyone use Ki and I think that's a great idea for his character.

Because him getting dropped is the only possibility for his character? Fiction is limitless.

You're acting like they're no use for Gohans character and they'res no way to write him but the Z part of the story proves you wrong.

Also, guess what? Fiction is best when the characters aren't always happy. That's why the main essence of fiction is conflict. That's why people wanted dbs to be darker. That's why people want villains. I want Gohan to be happy with videl and pan, but I also want him to recognize that he needs to be strong to ensure he can continue to have that happy life. It's something he recognized in episode 27 of the show and I want that elaborated on.

Our characters aren't only defined by the things we like but also by the way we behave when having to do things we don't like.

Wow, did you actually watch Z? Because the misimformation here.
Gohan wanting to go back help to his dad has nothing do with his will to help but by the fact that he had to. Not chose to
Funny thing is if it wasnt for piccolo forcing gohan in the first place, he wouldn't even be in that position.

Gohan didn't choose to train against the androids, Goku asked him because he needed a training partner. Funny thing is, Gohan didn't even train for those 3 years goku was in space. Meaning if goku never showed up, gohan never would have done a thing. In that same arc, its goku that had to make goku even fight cell. Its also goku who was screaming at his son to destroy cell because your sense of justice character got carried away and gave up against cell the second time, if it wasn't for goku again, gohan would have died.

Gohan choosing to go to namek has nothing to do with fighting but because he felt responsible for piccolo's death. They didn't even frieza was on the planet. For all they knew it was a simple pick up and fix.

For 7 years , gohan did nothing. gohan choosing to fight buu, is what you use as an example. If it wasn't for goku and gotenks playing around with buu, gohan never would have even had to fight. so yes, he was still forced.

Gohan is not a fighter, nor does his choices mean that he will train to be to help. There is a not single time where gohan is training based of his own free will. That epiosde 27 was just fanservice done by toei and you know that. They are not going to do anything with him because his character arc is done.


Then there is your point about fiction needing conflict, which is completely false. the whole point of fiction is entertainment and expression. There are many shows out there with no drama or bad things happening to the characters that are very well entertained.

Now action fiction needs conflict but only for those are relevant to the plot and for dragon ball those are people who have a passion for fighting. People don't don't want dbs to be darker or villains because of that. Z was darker than ball and most people got to dragon ball because of that. People want villains because they want the heros to fight because it is what dragon ball to a lot of people is what its all about.

We have dragon balls, why would people care about conflict?

Also you do realize that any master of ki could have written that book about ki, right? Hell, goku can even do it.

Bulma built a time machine and a dragon radar and a space ship, I'm pretty sure bulma can do anything a scholar can.

a good character doesn't have to suffer to become a good character, they just have to do things that relate with the audience.

The last thing I have to say to you is this, goku and vegeta are the protectors of earth, if something happens they will handle it and if they can't gohan definitely can't. And before you say they won't be there forever, thats why we have uub

Okay, so this went from a difference of opinion to you just being flat out wrong. He wanted to help. Gohan doesn't particularly enjoy fighting but he'll do it to help others. For example, he went back to help goku when even Krillin didn't want to. He helped dende against dodoria when even Krillin didn't want to. He seemed eager to fight against the androids. Gohan could've said no to goku but he didn't. Gohan wouldn't have rose his hand with a God damn smile on his face. Goku could've used piccolo only if he wanted a training partner. He was stronger anyways. He could be said no to goagainst cell but he went to fight anyways. Also, people get carried away when angry. News at 11. Why do you think great Saiyaman exists? If Gohan didn't like protecting and helping people would that even be a thing? Then comes the boo saga where he can't wait until the elder Kai finishes his ritual because he wants to help. No one told him to fight against Beerus or Freeza in Super, he did it on his own. He got angry when Future trunks didn't tell him he needed help and instantly started questioning if there was something to do. Like this is a fact. Gohan didn't get forced into things past the Saiyan saga.

Also, conflict can be at varying levels but its always necessary. this is called a plot map for a reason.

Is it confirmed that Gohan didn't train after freeza while goku was gone? I forgot. Still, that was only one year and Gohan could've gotten in shape even if it was 3 years. Gohan doesn't train during peace time because they're no bad guy so there's no one to protect. I think that should change and he should realize that there will always be new enemies. However, you can totally debate that. That's a completely debatable subject. Whether or not he has a strong justice and likes to help isn't.

Anyone could've written that? Seriously? Do you think any other character would be willing to sit down and write a book? Not only is Gohan probably the most selfless person on the show, it's not even confirmed if they can read or write properly. Even if that was the case, so many other people's accomplishments could've been done by someone else. It doesn't make it less in character for them or less important.

You can get the heroes to fight in other ways. Look at the Champa tournament. No villian and people complained. Dragonballs can fix things, correct but only if the heroes best the villian. If they don't, no one will wish them back. Especially if dende gets killed.

Goku and Vegeta can't always save the day. Cell saga proved that.

[NitroEX]

Then there is your point about fiction needing conflict, which is completely false. the whole point of fiction is entertainment and expression. There are many shows out there with no drama or bad things happening to the characters that are very well entertained.

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. All stories have conflict, you literally can't have a story without a conflict. Even if you were to write something as mind numbingly boring as a character deciding what food to eat, that would still count as a source of conflict for that character.

[Shi_Neko13]

Getting back on topic here...

I also don't understand the fandom when it comes to Super. What I mean is it seems like a general consensus dislike it and the ones who do like and enjoy it are the minority. When the show first started I was eager to jump on the forums and see what people had to say...and that eagerness slowly went away as the show went on. I started to enjoy the show less and less because all I read was negative criticism and comments and started thinking while watching an episode "oh the Kanzenshuu people are gonna say [this about that], or [not gonna like that]" and couldn't watch it from my own viewpoint. I thought for sure by the time the U6 stuff hit and Black it might be different, and it wasn't. I've come on here less and less because I'm tired of reading the same negative comments from the same posters. If I watched a show and had major qualms with it (to the point of anger/rants like some people) I would most likely stop watching said show. So for the people shitting on Super...how do they know it's no good? they're STILL watching it. That'd be like going to a restaurant you thought you'd enjoy, you eat there and have a terrible experience. So the next week you say "maybe it was the cook, or the wrong time of day" and you give it another chance. And you have another terrible experience. A week passes. You're hungry. You go to the same "shitty restaurant" because maybe today it'll be good. Nope, still sucks. So what do you do at this point? Go to that restaurant and eat bad food every single week for the next year and a half, complain about it, and keep doing it. That's the thing I don't understand.

That being said, everyone's entitled to their opinion, can think how they please, like whatever you want, i just don't agree with most of the consensus and don't feel like wasting time arguing it or reading the same basic thread exchanges over and over anymore. If someone wants to start a "Super Appreciation thread" I'm all for it.

[Faisal Shourov]

All long running shows have extremely diverse fanbase, possibly every single fan having different opinion is some ways. You can never please everyone with anything. Some people will devour any trash Super delivers. Some people will hate on Super even if it has as good plot as Code Geass. Some are even phony and make fake criticism just to get attention

[Vegito Black]

That's all fandoms. Naruto for example people are always saying Minato was awesome then say his character in the war sucked when it was the same exact character we had seen in kushinas nine tails attacks flashback but with a little comedy to him ( really long names, Naruto being a dumbass and embarrassing him) plus he saves the alliance's live twice against the tentails and Obito but they complain that Madara owned him well no duh he had one arm and was outmatched as a non jinchuriki vs the tentails jinchuriki WTF did his fans expect?

Itachi fans act like itachi was written perfectly when he wasn't Kishimoto didn't know what Itachi was until he wrote up the final chapters of his life. For example if you love your brother so much with tell him to kill his best friend? Revenge the clan by having Sasuke kill him and be a hero would be dandy but if Sasuke killed his best friend in Konoha he'd be no hero.

So this is just one fandom you should see Pokemons fandom they fight each other over which games are the best and it normally comes down to the first game their parents bought them when they were 6 years old and no one objectively looks at all the games to see which is the best.

Might be more fair to compare it to avatar which like dragon Ball had a sequel that is mixed in the fandom avatar is a well written show that had a sequel with Korra everyone loved when Aang got pissed about APPA being stolen and was mopping for an entire episode but when Korra was having lgeimate trust issues with her father lying to her and keeping her locked up at the South Pole (even if to protect her) everyone was jumping on her and claiming pms.

[dbzfan7]

Goku and Vegeta can't always save the day. Cell saga proved that.

As did the recent Trunks arc. I don't really want to get too involved in this topic, but I will mention he had no reason to fight Dabura, but did anyways. Goku and Vegeta were right there. He could have just been back up, but he demanded to fight Dabura alone.Then there was the whole speech he made to his wife in Super and Piccolo, but they keep going back and forth on whether it will go anywhere or not.

Personally I don't care when it comes to Super or anything. People can say or do what they want. Love it or hate it. Just don't go telling someone they can't love or hate something, and all is good.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Itachi fans act like itachi was written perfectly when he wasn't Kishimoto didn't know what Itachi was until he wrote up the final chapters of his life. For example if you love your brother so much with tell him to kill his best friend? Revenge the clan by having Sasuke kill him and be a hero would be dandy but if Sasuke killed his best friend in Konoha he'd be no hero.

Not me! To be fair, Naruto suffered from the same problems every other weekly manga does. Toriyama also suffered from it. Kishimoto had to make stuff up as he went along. To Kishi's credit, he left Itachi pretty open. Nobody could've said until the reveal that whether he was a good guy or bad guy. The only thing he planned was the final battle and he somehow managed to fit everything else in order for the battle to happen. Some things worked, some things didn't. In my opinion Itachi's character arc worked, but that's off-topic.

I remember when his identity was revealed their were pretty divisive opinions. Some liked "bad guy" Itachi and didn't like the reveal, while some liked the twist. It was a hot debate back then which also brought really nasty attitudes from some people. Thankfully, it's over now.

But, yeah I agree that you'll find very divisive opinions in fandoms of super huge shows. Dragon Ball Super is no different.

[kinisking]

Goku and Vegeta can't always save the day. Cell saga proved that.

As did the recent Trunks arc. I don't really want to get too involved in this topic, but I will mention he had no reason to fight Dabura, but did anyways. Goku and Vegeta were right there. He could have just been back up, but he demanded to fight Dabura alone.Then there was the whole speech he made to his wife in Super and Piccolo, but they keep going back and forth on whether it will go anywhere or not.

Personally I don't care when it comes to Super or anything. People can say or do what they want. Love it or hate it. Just don't go telling someone they can't love or hate something, and all is good.

Not to mention that he demands to tag along in the cell saga at every opportunity. You're going to see the alternate time machine? I'm going to! When cell acted up the first time and Trunks wanted to investigate? Gohan yells he wants to go. Piccolo's in danger? He wants to go! Gohan very much wanted to be involved in everything post saiyan saga. He doesn't like fighting like Goku, but he has a strong sense of responsibility and justice. Not up for debate.

[The gr]

I just love the fact the fandom call cabba transformation a cheap power up and he archived for no reason and he diminish the Saiyan legend through no one complain that Goten and present trunks pull that transformation for no apparent reason my reaction to this

Man nostalgia is a bitch is just prove that the some of super haters are ignorant

[emperior]

I find hilarious that some people say "Toriyama giving SSJ to everyone made it a lot less legendary" and now that it seems like Toriyama finally made the Legendary Super Saiyan transformation canon, everyone is hating on it because "Broly" without even seeing what it will be about and how they will handle it.