Should Goku stop being irresponsible jerk?

[TheMathemagician]

It's what makes him more unique as a protagonist nowadays for better or for worse.

Goku isn't that unique among Shonen protagonists. Most Shonen heroes tend to be selfish and only really care about their circle of friends.

I wouldn't say that's true at all.

[Soppa Saia People]

Should Goku change his entire personality and most interesting aspect of his character? No, or else you get GT Goku.

What's wrong with GT Goku ? I like him a hell of a lot more Super Goku.

[SansrivaaL]

And change the only thing that makes Goku different from all the other "I'm fighting for someone I care/love" shonen protags? no just no, I love Goku being an irresponsible jerk.

[Draconic]

Should Goku change his entire personality and most interesting aspect of his character? No, or else you get GT Goku.

What's wrong with GT Goku ? I like him a hell of a lot more Super Goku.

He is portrayed a little too perfect and whenever he says or does something stupid it's presented as charming and endearing. At least in Super whenever he's stupid, it's played to get a laugh, not a "awww...". Not to mention he becomes a catchprashe and cliches spewing machine: "I'm getting excited", "I'm not a Saiyan, I'm an Earthling" etc. Hell, the ending for the show is him literally dying for everybody's sins then visiting his friends in spirit form, eventually going up in the sky.
This is not true to the character. Goku is not charming and likeable because he has no flaws, but because he is naive and childlike. His innocence coroborated with his absolute love of fighting sometimes gets everybody in trouble, but he always accepts responsability in some way. In GT, Goku is just there to fix the mistakes everybody else makes: he has to find the Black Star Dragon Balls because of Pilaf, he has to defeat Baby because the Saiyans were assholes to his race, he has to defeat the Dragons created from no wish that benefited him. Only Super 17 is having Goku as a target that's the story that falls the flatest.

[HeroR]

Exactly. I've always seen Goku as more of a classical hero, much like Hercules. He is more than willing to protect his friends and family and save the day, but the fashion of which he will go about it is very morally ambiguous and questionable.

Honestly, Goku can be compared to many modern heroes. For example, Goku is extremely similar to the movie version of Iron Man.

Tony Stark is an arrogant, egoistical, jerkass who thinks he's right about everything, and is so good at what he does that you can't help but admire him, while also wanting to punch him in the face. At the same time, he's one of the most selfless, kind, self-sacrificing individuals you will ever meet and you can easily see yourself becoming friends with him during a party. He's loyal to his friends, or just people with promised, and will provide them with all they need and more to make their lives better. He also tends to screw-up a lot and create many terrible situations like Ultron, who went on to caused mass death and is still affecting the current world. Even before he became Iron Man, his recklessness in how his company handled weapons caused many innocent deaths since it got into the hands of terrorists. He feels guilty about these things and tries to make up for it, but still goes with what he believes is right, often against the will of his own friends.

Many of these same traits can be applied to Goku, except the egoistical, jerkass part. Goku is arrogant about his power and his ability to handle situations, which ofter times bite him in the butt. He does feel guilty about the situations he creates even if unintentional, but he's still reckless and goes against the advise of others because he wants something for himself and he thinks he can handle the repercussions (which is true most of the time).

Tony can come off as more sympathetic than Goku since his screw ups tend to happen because he's trying to save the world, but ends up nearly destroying it, while Goku nearly destroys the world because he wants to fight strong people. So he is more selfish than Tony who do wants to be a standup hero, but is held back by ego.

Another good example is the Doctor from Doctor Who who is treated as both a messiah figure and the worst thing to ever happened to the universe at the same time.

[Freeza9000]

Exactly. I've always seen Goku as more of a classical hero, much like Hercules. He is more than willing to protect his friends and family and save the day, but the fashion of which he will go about it is very morally ambiguous and questionable.

Goku is arrogant about his power and his ability to handle situations

Ehh, don't you think "arrogant" is a little harsh term to describe Goku? I mean, he isn't that antagonistic and condescending towards others to me, except when SSJ Goku was towards Freeza back on Namek I believe. I'd say he can be overconfident and selfish at times which would put others at risk, etc.

[HeroR]

Ehh, don't you think "arrogant" is a little harsh term to describe Goku? I mean, he isn't that antagonistic and condescending towards others to me, except when SSJ Goku was towards Freeza back on Namek I believe. I'd say he can be overconfident and selfish at times which would put others at risk, etc.

I guess we can used cocky, although to me cocky and arrogance basically means the same thing. But overconfident works too.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Beerus is a total dick and was horribly wrong as recently as last arc. I like Beerus btw I'm just saying...

Anyway Goku from his experience with Zeno thinks hes a decent guy. Yes he was warned...but not explicitly about what may go wrong.

Goku miscalculated. It happens.

[TheMathemagician]

Beerus is a total dick and was horribly wrong as recently as last arc. I like Beerus btw I'm just saying...

Anyway Goku from his experience with Zeno thinks hes a decent guy. Yes he was warned...but not explicitly about what may go wrong.

Goku miscalculated. It happens.

Well Beerus was clearly in the right here, and we're meant to take his side here, but agreed that people need to see it from Goku's perspective, which is why it's understandable why he doesn't believe Zen-Oh is all that bad. With that said, it doesn't justify his actions at all.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Beerus is a total dick and was horribly wrong as recently as last arc. I like Beerus btw I'm just saying...

Anyway Goku from his experience with Zeno thinks hes a decent guy. Yes he was warned...but not explicitly about what may go wrong.

Goku miscalculated. It happens.

Well Beerus was clearly in the right here, and we're meant to take his side here, but agreed that people need to see it from Goku's perspective, which is why it's understandable why he doesn't believe Zen-Oh is all that bad. With that said, it doesn't justify his actions at all.

Oh Beerus is totally right here. I just meant he has a habit of saying things that are less than 100% true but i think you got that.

He definitely should have listened to Whis. Being an Angel though and being impartial (more or less) he didnt really press the issue. I mean he could have said something like "Press that button and I will no longer train you"

He definitely needs to take a step back and think though. He doesnt seem to grasp that if everyone is scared of Zeno there may be a reason. I wont lie though...i loved the Beerus/Goku staredown. People were tired of the whole ""Beerus and Whis can just save the day" and this might be a good way to put some tension back.

[Soppa Saia People]

Should Goku change his entire personality and most interesting aspect of his character? No, or else you get GT Goku.

What's wrong with GT Goku ? I like him a hell of a lot more Super Goku.

He is portrayed a little too perfect and whenever he says or does something stupid it's presented as charming and endearing. At least in Super whenever he's stupid, it's played to get a laugh, not a "awww...". Not to mention he becomes a catchprashe and cliches spewing machine: "I'm getting excited", "I'm not a Saiyan, I'm an Earthling" etc. Hell, the ending for the show is him literally dying for everybody's sins then visiting his friends in spirit form, eventually going up in the sky.
This is not true to the character. Goku is not charming and likeable because he has no flaws, but because he is naive and childlike. His innocence coroborated with his absolute love of fighting sometimes gets everybody in trouble, but he always accepts responsability in some way. In GT, Goku is just there to fix the mistakes everybody else makes: he has to find the Black Star Dragon Balls because of Pilaf, he has to defeat Baby because the Saiyans were assholes to his race, he has to defeat the Dragons created from no wish that benefited him. Only Super 17 is having Goku as a target that's the story that falls the flatest.

Fair point. I'd still take GT Goku over Super Goku. Super Goku is a bad character and kinda sours me on one of my favorite fictional characters.

[Draconic]

What's wrong with GT Goku ? I like him a hell of a lot more Super Goku.

He is portrayed a little too perfect and whenever he says or does something stupid it's presented as charming and endearing. At least in Super whenever he's stupid, it's played to get a laugh, not a "awww...". Not to mention he becomes a catchprashe and cliches spewing machine: "I'm getting excited", "I'm not a Saiyan, I'm an Earthling" etc. Hell, the ending for the show is him literally dying for everybody's sins then visiting his friends in spirit form, eventually going up in the sky.
This is not true to the character. Goku is not charming and likeable because he has no flaws, but because he is naive and childlike. His innocence coroborated with his absolute love of fighting sometimes gets everybody in trouble, but he always accepts responsability in some way. In GT, Goku is just there to fix the mistakes everybody else makes: he has to find the Black Star Dragon Balls because of Pilaf, he has to defeat Baby because the Saiyans were assholes to his race, he has to defeat the Dragons created from no wish that benefited him. Only Super 17 is having Goku as a target that's the story that falls the flatest.

Fair point. I'd still take GT Goku over Super Goku. Super Goku is a bad character and kinda sours me on one of my favorite fictional characters.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Super's portrayal of Goku has severe issues, but I don't think the events in the most recent episode are part of them.

[TheMathemagician]

Beerus is a total dick and was horribly wrong as recently as last arc. I like Beerus btw I'm just saying...

Anyway Goku from his experience with Zeno thinks hes a decent guy. Yes he was warned...but not explicitly about what may go wrong.

Goku miscalculated. It happens.

Well Beerus was clearly in the right here, and we're meant to take his side here, but agreed that people need to see it from Goku's perspective, which is why it's understandable why he doesn't believe Zen-Oh is all that bad. With that said, it doesn't justify his actions at all.

Oh Beerus is totally right here. I just meant he has a habit of saying things that are less than 100% true but i think you got that.

He definitely should have listened to Whis. Being an Angel though and being impartial (more or less) he didnt really press the issue. I mean he could have said something like "Press that button and I will no longer train you"

He definitely needs to take a step back and think though. He doesnt seem to grasp that if everyone is scared of Zeno there may be a reason. I wont lie though...i loved the Beerus/Goku staredown. People were tired of the whole ""Beerus and Whis can just save the day" and this might be a good way to put some tension back.

Agreed. I also love the Goku/Beerus standoff as well. I'm hoping this eventually leads somewhere, it could build up to their eventual rematch.

[Soppa Saia People]

He is portrayed a little too perfect and whenever he says or does something stupid it's presented as charming and endearing. At least in Super whenever he's stupid, it's played to get a laugh, not a "awww...". Not to mention he becomes a catchprashe and cliches spewing machine: "I'm getting excited", "I'm not a Saiyan, I'm an Earthling" etc. Hell, the ending for the show is him literally dying for everybody's sins then visiting his friends in spirit form, eventually going up in the sky.
This is not true to the character. Goku is not charming and likeable because he has no flaws, but because he is naive and childlike. His innocence coroborated with his absolute love of fighting sometimes gets everybody in trouble, but he always accepts responsability in some way. In GT, Goku is just there to fix the mistakes everybody else makes: he has to find the Black Star Dragon Balls because of Pilaf, he has to defeat Baby because the Saiyans were assholes to his race, he has to defeat the Dragons created from no wish that benefited him. Only Super 17 is having Goku as a target that's the story that falls the flatest.

Fair point. I'd still take GT Goku over Super Goku. Super Goku is a bad character and kinda sours me on one of my favorite fictional characters.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Super's portrayal of Goku has severe issues, but I don't think the events in the most recent episode are part of them.

Pardon my ignorance, but what happened ?

[Draconic]

Fair point. I'd still take GT Goku over Super Goku. Super Goku is a bad character and kinda sours me on one of my favorite fictional characters.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Super's portrayal of Goku has severe issues, but I don't think the events in the most recent episode are part of them.

Pardon my ignorance, but what happened ?

Oh, Beerus threatend him not to go remind Zeno of the tournament or else he would kill him (in a very serious way, not the jokey jokey stuff he usually does) because getting in cahoots with the little guy would be very bad and Goku pretty much trolled him by saying one side of the Zeno button from the Zamasu arc would take him here, another would call Zeno to Beerus' planet. He then ignored him completely and and went anyway, because he wants to fight in the tournament.

If I'm not being clear, here's the scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKdmoPZZUWo

[Nejishiki]

Yes, that is allright, but I don't really think that he was for the match with Vegeta, either. He, actually, was forced into the match when Vegeta turned into a serial killer yet again...

Goku decided to entertain Vegeta for his own interests, both with positive & negative motives. I wouldn't say it was completely forced. They knew it would unleash Boo & were sure it could be dealt with later. I believe it's Vegeta who voiced doubt in Kaioshin's word, egging Goku on for mutual agreement.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm not talking about their combat decisions when it comes to Vegeta, because you're right, he is to blame for Freeza. I'm just saying his character isn't the same as it was when he was first introduced. Vegeta used to mock Goku saying "you aren't a real Saiyan" or something along those lines. Now it seems the tables have turned with Goku remarking last episode that he shouldn't blame him when he becomes a lot stronger than Vegeta. Goku couldn't understand why Vegeta couldn't come, and after living on Earth his whole life, he should understand by now that family is important.

Goku's character hasn't progressed at all, and his actions highlight that.

As for Zamasu, you got me there, I forgot it was because they wanted to see if Zamasu was Black. But all of those other points I mentioned I think are valid.

Hiring a hitman and nearly getting yourself killed while your family/friends are worried about you all because you want a good fight is the definition of a guy who just doesn't care about how his loved ones feel.

Goku does understand that family is important. He just didn't understand why Vegeta would chose to stick around since he wasn't the one giving birth. Even then, Vegeta mostly didn't want to go because Bulma would get made.

He changed little, not at all.

I think your other points are fine, if not a bit one-sided

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh on Goku which is why it came across as one sided. I don't hate Goku at all. As a matter of fact, I LOVED Kid Goku back in Dragonall, but I think its because the original Bruce Falcouner type DBZ which I grew up on depicted Goku as a hero. Quotes like:

"I am the Hope of the Universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out in peace".

English Dub old school Z depicted Goku as a hero. And me, having never watched anything outside this version of Z, and never read the manga, and then all of a sudden watching Super left me scratching my head at Goku's character, which is why I might come across as a bit one sided.

But I don't think Toriyama intended to depict Goku as a hero, and as a result, Z's version of Goku is what I had in my mind when I first started watching Super. (I also never watched the series in Japanese until July 2015 when Super came out, and it grew on me).

Anyway correct me if I'm wrong here. Did the Japanese and the manga depict Goku the same way?

y
There was no Bruce Faulconer on the OG Dragon Ball with Kid Goku. But I think you do know that. You just miss the more heroic Goku from that era. I do too!

[HybridSaiyan]

The question is, would Buu saga Goku act this recklessly?

[Lord Beerus]

The question is, would Buu saga Goku act this recklessly?

Hell yeah. Goku outright needlessly gambled with the lives of billions on three separate occasions in the Majin Boo arc. He was significantly responsible for a lot of awful shit to happen in that arc.

[HybridSaiyan]

The question is, would Buu saga Goku act this recklessly?

Hell yeah. Goku outright needlessly gambled with the lives of billions on three separate occasions in the Majin Boo arc. He was significantly responsible for a lot of awful shit to happen in that arc.

I dunno, or maybe it was just Seans portrayal of Goku because I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have pulled a stunt like this. I got the vibe Goku was wanting to retire, or at least leave it up to the next generation to fight for Earth.