I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:29 pm

The reason I don't think the question of Goku's righteousness simply amounts to a cultural difference is that the series itself so regularly goes out of its way to cast Goku's actions in a questionable light -- as, occasionally, has Toriyama in certain interviews. Even in Battle of Gods Goku is "righteous" in quite a loose sense, as Piccolo conveniently lampshades with his remark that the only ones who qualify for that description in his estimation are Gohan and Goten.

Lord Frieza · Post by **Lord Frieza** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:40 pm

Pure of heart dose not automatically mean good, as Baba put it, Goku's heart is like that of a child or animal.

That means whil Goku do not do thing out of spite or evil, he is capable of acting selfish or in anger and it will not clash with that pure heart statement of his.

Superman is not pure of heart because he has admitted that there are times when he has been tempted to just give in. That would never even cross Goku's mind.

HeroR · Post by **HeroR** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:47 pm

Faustus wrote:The reason I don't think the question of Goku's righteousness simply amounts to a cultural difference is that the series itself so regularly goes out of its way to cast Goku's actions in a questionable light -- as, occasionally, has Toriyama in certain interviews. Even in Battle of Gods Goku is "righteous" in quite a loose sense, as Piccolo conveniently lampshades with his remark that the only ones who qualify for that description in his estimation are Gohan and Goten.

Piccolo also claimed that Trunks wasn't righteous since he was too young to have a girlfriend, so not sure how seriously we are supposed to take Piccolo. And in the context of Super, Piccolo only claimed Vegeta's righteousness was questionable.

Also, the series itself only painted Goku's actions as questionable a few times like with Vegeta and Cell. Everything else points to Goku being more in the right.

Lord Frieza wrote:Pure of heart dose not automatically mean good, as Baba put it, Goku's heart is like that of a child or animal.

That means whil Goku do not do thing out of spite or evil, he is capable of acting selfish or in anger and it will not clash with that pure heart statement of his.

Superman is not pure of heart because he has admitted that there are times when he has been tempted to just give in. That would never even cross Goku's mind.

At least in my post, I wasn't talking about being pure, since Zamasu was called pure-hearted by Gowasu. Kid Buu was also pure and Beerus called Zen'o pure. Pure is not good is a trope for a reason.

I was talking about righteousness, which is a bit more complex since righteousness can be subjective, like the how 'thou shall not kill' is often seen as being righteous, while other societies sees this as being selfish since one is putting their own personal code over the needs of the many. For example, Goku's no kill code, regardless of the reason why he doesn't kill, is often painted in a negative light in Dragon Ball. The same with Gohan with Cell.

TheMikado · Post by **TheMikado** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:01 pm

In case people haven't noticed, the people starting these threads tend to have low post counts. They aren't frequent hardcore fans.
They follow the show casually, came in here to see what's going on with one of their favorite series and to vent their frustrations.

This is literally what brought me here during the RoF time period. I was in disbelief about what was happening to the franchise so I came here searching for answers.
We are JUST getting to the point where the casual western audiences who will be a lot less understanding of all this. But we will see.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:02 pm

Abra kadabra wrote:He's a seriously unlikeable character tbh. Selfish, childish and idiotic. He's always been like this abandoning his family to train and risking the world for a fight. It's not the first time he's done this.

Last I checked most of the time Goku was gone he was either dead or badly injured from trying to protect their asses.

let's freeza (mass genocidal tyrant) live and stands back to see how mirai trunks does against him because he's curious

Goku wasn't exactly himself when he first became SSJ. He only spared Freeza out of pity and he knew Trunks could handle Freeza.

Let's Vegeta (who tried to blow up earth) live

I'll grant you this one. It was undeniably selfish but Goku at least acknowledged it was a selfish decision (his Saiyan urges got the best of him after facing an opponent so strong) and even regrets it later on.

gives cell (biomech murderer) a senzu bean and throws his pacifist son into the fight

Dunno why people give Goku so much heat for making Gohan fight Cell. Gohan was the only one who can beat Cell and feeding Cell a senzu changed practically nothing. Goku was only wrong about not telling Gohan about his plan but he had a reason not to.

threatens supreme kai's life because he wants to fight knowing Buu will be revived because of it

Goku didn't want to fight Vegeta. If he didn't accept the challenge then Vegeta would only continue to kill more people in order to trigger him and he couldn't let that go sitting.

and doesn't waste Buu right away since he had SSJ3 hidden in his ass the whole arc.

SSJ3 took time away from his day off and Goku said himself he didn't kill Boo because he wanted the kids to be prepared for future threats since he wasn't gonna be around forever.

Horrible character. Saving the world just happens to be a coincidence it seems. Honestly should have stayed dead. I'm glad everyones finally seeing how shit a character he is. It's about damn time

Except he's put his life on the line trying to protect the world multiple times.

Gafonso6 · Post by **Gafonso6** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:19 pm

JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR!!!! How many posts are we gonna get about this, we're just to episodes into this arc and people are overreacting so f***ing much!!! This is almost getting to Youtube comment section levels of bandwagon! I came here to escape the Youtube comments fanbase and at the beggining that's what I got... Well not anymore!!! If I see another one of this I won't be able to take this fanbase serious anymore (with three exceptions).
Boy did writing this feel good.

Baggie_Saiyan · Post by **Baggie_Saiyan** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:46 pm

Gafonso6 wrote:JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR!!!! How many posts are we gonna get about this, we're just to episodes into this arc and people are overreacting so f***ing much!!! This is almost getting to Youtube comment section levels of bandwagon! I came here to escape the Youtube comments fanbase and at the beggining that's what I got... Well not anymore!!! If I see another one of this I won't be able to take this fanbase serious anymore (with three exceptions).
Boy did writing this feel good.

I do agree, half of these topics could be consolidated into one topic this many feels unnecessary, maybe the admin staff can lock people starting new topics for a bit like when Super first started?

The gr · Post by **The gr** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:12 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Gokuu is the most popular character on Kanzenshuu going by how many threads is being made and it's all about the same thing. You're the best Son!!!

All the things you just listed is what makes him a unique protagonist. That's why I like him. Yes, DBS Gokuu needs some work I can agree with that. His exaggerated traits annoys me at well at times, but not enough to dislike him.

wow I never knew Goku was popular in this forum and yeah Goku is a lovable prick that why I like him,but seriously I'm sick of hearing the same freaking complaint,how many threads we have complaining about this topic

Abra kadabra · Post by **Abra kadabra** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:49 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Gokuu is the most popular character on Kanzenshuu going by how many threads is being made and it's all about the same thing. You're the best Son!!!

All the things you just listed is what makes him a unique protagonist. That's why I like him. Yes, DBS Gokuu needs some work I can agree with that. His exaggerated traits annoys me at well at times, but not enough to dislike him.

Ok.

You like him even though stupidity and selfishness is the bases of his character? It's not even surface traits because there no deeper meaning to his character beyond fighting so he still turns out to be one dimensional. Like him if you want. I see no discernable difference between Z and super Goku

Abra kadabra · Post by **Abra kadabra** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:52 pm

TBMx wrote:I'm holding out hope that they know what they're doing and making Goku turn heel. The evil look in the opening with the new red transformation makes me think far from being a boost in power maybe he's become too evil to sustain Super Saiyan Blue. As Super Saiyan God was supposed to be a good Saiyan. If goku doesn't undergo character development and learn from his mistakes, not only is he impossible to root for at this point and during the tournament, after the tournament Beerus would either destroy him outright, or cut all ties with him. Pretty much regardless of the outcome. Not doing so would really bury Beerus' character. All bark and no bite cos of Goku's impenetrable Main Character plot shield.

Main character plot shield is strong with Goku. He can make all the mistakes in the world, not learn from any of them and can come out smelling like roses because the writer wrote it that way. But it's always been BS. At some point he needs to actually be punished and forced to understand the repercussions of his actions

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:31 pm

Goku is genuinely a kind hearted person and does have good intentions most of the time. But he also can be a selfish asshole and even admits to his selfishness. I've always seen as more akin to classical heroes, much like Hercules, where he is more than willing to protect his friends and family and save the day, but the fashion of which he will go about it very morally ambiguous and questionable. He usually expresses himself in the most unfiltered way possible, which can interpreted as rude or impartial, or to even such a degree, that it can be practically seen as non-human. And I honestly don't think he's ever truly completely aware of just how "alien" his responses can be on certain delicate scenarios. But that's what I love about Goku so much: he's an incredibly flawed character. He's not your standard superhero in the slightest. He's shown to have great love and care for his friends and family, but his inherit personality traits, being from a race of blood knights, often cloud his judgement and can sometimes come back to bite him in the ass. And how handles those scenarios are all the more intriguing because of how he views the world. That just makes him stand out so much from the usual, generic, two dimensional shonen manga/anime protagonists we see these days.

Goku is a very unconventional character.

Basako · Post by **Basako** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:26 am

Nah, he is good, has saved the world multiple times and has done so many selfless actions. Let's just remember some: he helped the turtle to get to the sea, crushed the RR army saving the world, resurrected Bora, killed Piccolo Daimao saving the world, let Piccolo junior live to save Kami with great results, sacrificed himself to kill Raditz, huge part defeating Nappa and Vegeta, let Vegeta live because his intuition which proved right, defeated Freezer in Namek and, don't forget, he did kill Freezer and Cold in the original timeline, he trained his son for one year where he noticed he was able to defeat Cell, sacrificed himself to save the world when Cell was going to explode, teached Goten and Trunks the fusion, huge part saving the world against kid Boo, saved the world against Beerus, huge part saving the world against Golden Freezer, huge part saving all ningens against Zamasu...

So what you talking about? He is a fucking selfless hero.

He gave Cell a senzu, yeah, because he trusted his son could do it and he was right. Not in vain he spent a whole year training with him, being a better father than Vegeta has ever been for now. Remember how Vegeta trained with future Trunks in ther RoSaT? Each one on his own, if that's being a good father, let god see that. Not to mention he let second form Cell get 18 when he could have killed him. Also, he killed hundreds of people just because he wanted to fight Goku, without even considering how this could affect his son Trunks and that fight was what caused Boo's resurrection. Goku just made Shin go away, because he saw Vegeta was not giving any other way out. What was he gonna do? Let Vegeta kill more hundreds in the other side of the stadium? No, he made Shin let them fight because selfish Vegeta was not giving another chance.

Goku is not a perfect father, but when he is not absent, he is a good one. Vegeta, it's clear he has become a better father now, he finally trained with future Trunks for real and just look how he is there for the birth of Bra. But he wasn't like that before, he has changed. By the way, Goku was there for Gohan's birth and first four years, which nobody seem to remember, saved his life uncountable times plus training for three years before the androids along with Piccolo. He has also been spending time with Goten since the death of Boo to this days in Super.

TheMathemagician · Post by **TheMathemagician** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:54 pm

Basako wrote:Nah, he is good, has saved the world multiple times and has done so many selfless actions. Let's just remember some: he helped the turtle to get to the sea, crushed the RR army saving the world, resurrected Bora, killed Piccolo Daimao saving the world, let Piccolo junior live to save Kami with great results, sacrificed himself to kill Raditz, huge part defeating Nappa and Vegeta, let Vegeta live because his intuition which proved right, defeated Freezer in Namek and, don't forget, he did kill Freezer and Cold in the original timeline, he trained his son for one year where he noticed he was able to defeat Cell, sacrificed himself to save the world when Cell was going to explode, teached Goten and Trunks the fusion, huge part saving the world against kid Boo, saved the world against Beerus, huge part saving the world against Golden Freezer, huge part saving all ningens against Zamasu...

So what you talking about? He is a fucking selfless hero.

He gave Cell a senzu, yeah, because he trusted his son could do it and he was right. Not in vain he spent a whole year training with him, being a better father than Vegeta has ever been for now. Remember how Vegeta trained with future Trunks in ther RoSaT? Each one on his own, if that's being a good father, let god see that. Not to mention he let second form Cell get 18 when he could have killed him. Also, he killed hundreds of people just because he wanted to fight Goku, without even considering how this could affect his son Trunks and that fight was what caused Boo's resurrection. Goku just made Shin go away, because he saw Vegeta was not giving any other way out. What was he gonna do? Let Vegeta kill more hundreds in the other side of the stadium? No, he made Shin let them fight because selfish Vegeta was not giving another chance.

Goku is not a perfect father, but when he is not absent, he is a good one. Vegeta, it's clear he has become a better father now, he finally trained with future Trunks for real and just look how he is there for the birth of Bra. But he wasn't like that before, he has changed. By the way, Goku was there for Gohan's birth and first four years, which nobody seem to remember, saved his life uncountable times plus training for three years before the androids along with Piccolo. He has also been spending time with Goten since the death of Boo to this days in Super.

Honestly, it always baffled me how people could really say he's an absolute terrible father. Like he was around more often than people seem to give him credit for (especially in Super).

Faisal Shourov · Post by **Faisal Shourov** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:11 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Goku is genuinely a kind hearted person and does have good intentions most of the time. But he also can be a selfish asshole and even admits to his selfishness. I've always seen as more akin to classical heroes, much like Hercules, where he is more than willing to protect his friends and family and save the day, but the fashion of which he will go about it very morally ambiguous and questionable. He usually expresses himself in the most unfiltered way possible, which can interpreted as rude or impartial, or to even such a degree, that it can be practically seen as non-human. And I honestly don't think he's ever truly completely aware of just how "alien" his responses can be on certain delicate scenarios. But that's what I love about Goku so much: he's an incredibly flawed character. He's not your standard superhero in the slightest. He's shown to have great love and care for his friends and family, but his inherit personality traits, being from a race of blood knights, often cloud his judgement and can sometimes come back to bite him in the ass. And how handles those scenarios are all the more intriguing because of how he views the world. That just makes him stand out so much from the usual, generic, two dimensional shonen manga/anime protagonists we see these days.

Goku is a very unconventional character.

You're right about that. Goku does not give many good guy speeches and is often mocked by villains in return. Most anime heroes do what should be done, but Goku only does what he thinks he should do. Goku is extremely unpredictable in many cases. Also Goku is definitely more entertaining than Ichigo and Natsu who're as boring and predictable as it gets. Luffy is pretty close to Goku in being unpredictable I would say

Freeza9000 · Post by **Freeza9000** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:54 pm

Since when has a protagonist having selfless and conventional qualities been a requisite for what makes a good protagonist and character? What makes Goku stands out as a protagonist is that he is interestingly flawed in a good way. He's shown to having a caring and compassionate side for others, but his Saiyan side to his character can have a influence on Goku's decisions and at times overpower any sense of reasoning such as when SSJ Goku disregarded North Kai's good intentions about Goku being teleported from Namek to Earth and wanted to deliver Freeza a good and humiliating defeat. Not to mention, he can make some questionable decisions that could be considered horrible like tossing Cell a bean to fight his own son, but that's the beauty of his character. It's how his approaches are unlike any conventional "heroes" (for a lack of better term lol).

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:19 pm

Gafonso6 wrote:JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR!!!! How many posts are we gonna get about this, we're just to episodes into this arc and people are overreacting so f***ing much!!! This is almost getting to Youtube comment section levels of bandwagon! I came here to escape the Youtube comments fanbase and at the beggining that's what I got... Well not anymore!!! If I see another one of this I won't be able to take this fanbase serious anymore (with three exceptions).
Boy did writing this feel good.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! I love this post. It also encapsulates my feelings exactly.

buutenks · Post by **buutenks** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:47 pm

If Goku hadn't reminded Zeno, you all wouldn't have gotten this awesome Buu vs Basil fight.

Goku and Vegeta's stupid decisions gives us these stories.

Look at Future Trunks, if he'd had been the top dog arcs would last 1 ep only.

TekTheNinja · Post by **TekTheNinja** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:50 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Abra kadabra wrote:He's a seriously unlikeable character tbh. Selfish, childish and idiotic. He's always been like this abandoning his family to train and risking the world for a fight. It's not the first time he's done this.

Let's Vegeta (who tried to blow up earth) live, let's freeza (mass genocidal tyrant) live and stands back to see how mirai trunks does against him because he's curious, gives cell (biomech murderer) a senzu bean and throws his pacifist son into the fight, threatens supreme kai's life because he wants to fight knowing Buu will be revived because of it and doesn't waste Buu right away since he had SSJ3 hidden in his ass the whole arc. I'm sure I'm missing a few and that just in Z.

Horrible character. Saving the world just happens to be a coincidence it seems. Honestly should have stayed dead. I'm glad everyones finally seeing how shit a character he is. It's about damn time
Why do any of these things make him a 'bad character'? Maybe he would be a 'bad person' in real life, but how is he a 'bad character' within the context of fictionality?

Isn't it obvious? Because the show expects us to like this fucking asshole.

buutenks wrote:If Goku hadn't reminded Zeno, you all wouldn't have gotten this awesome Buu vs Basil fight.

Goku and Vegeta's stupid decisions gives us these stories.

Why do plots need to be caused by stupid decisions though? That happens all the time and it's gotten old. No one would be angry right now if Zeno just would have remembered the tournament on his own.

Saturnine · Post by **Saturnine** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:30 am

I actually don't mind Goku at all. As long as it's Selfish Goku. I hate Superman Goku's guts.

HybridSaiyan · Post by **HybridSaiyan** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:25 am

It's honestly like watching Cell games Goku all over again. Smiling in confidence when his teammates are getting beat down lol.

Kanzenshuu

I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

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Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

Re: Goku is officially the worst character in this show

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